S13.E15: Too Close

[DanaK]

Quote

03/05/2025 (09:00PM - 10:00PM) (Wednesday) : Kidd and Severide eagerly await big news. Pascal searches for the perfect anniversary gift.

 

[Sandman]

Geez, you guys, when I said I wanted someone to make Pascal and his wife stop being so creepy, I didn’t mean by bumping one of them off!

How badly was Monica testing with audiences that the show runners just jettison the character like that?

I guess I should stop complaining about the ridiculous B-plots before they fry Capp completely in the next thunderstorm. 
 

 

[CoyoteBlue]

3 hours ago, Sandman said:

How badly was Monica testing with audiences that the show runners just jettison the character like that?

I think she came in as an eventual sacrificial goat to the plot. Their deal was too weird (I still don't know what Pascal's past is about) and they were never going to be a happy-ever-after.

I was starting to think we'd find Damon beaten and dumped somewhere by his house, only to die from his injuries. But that seemed too much.

[Dowel Jones]

Sayonara, Mrs. P.  And almost a firefighter by that idiot driver.

Pretty neat rescue method used in that basement.  I do have a question, though.  Is it common in large FDs to send search/rescue personnel in ahead of their water supply?  I know the show can't use up props by spraying water, but to me this gives a really bad impression of FD procedures.

There were some serious safety policy violations on that fire.  You don't ever, ever separate, and in fact should have a reserve team waiting at the door in case there is a trapped firefighter.  I'm not sure what's going to happen with Damon and the other guy, because cowardice on a fire is about the worst offense you can do.  If the rest of the crew finds out what really happened, that guy should be toast.

I'm kind of on Mouch's side regarding the transfer.  At this point in his career, learning a new station and area isn't going to advance him anywhere.  He probably won't even have a couch at the new place.

Oh, and RIP, Slammigan.  At least for a while.

 

[MediaZone4K]

Killing off Pascal's wife just seemed like shock value an unnecessary. Maybe her death is to advance the plot of Pascal acting erratically, which eventually gets him kicked out of the fire house and advances either Mouch or Herman to chief?

As strange as their marriage was, it made for some entertaining scenes.

 

[preeya]

6 hours ago, MediaZone4K said:

Maybe her death is to advance the plot of Pascal acting erratically, which eventually gets him kicked out of the fire house and advances either Mouch or Herman to chief?

As strange as their marriage was, it made for some entertaining scenes.

Should the chief position open up, wouldn't Severide be the next in command choice? IMHO, Herman should never be in charge.

[anna0852]

28 minutes ago, preeya said:

Should the chief position open up, wouldn't Severide be the next in command choice? IMHO, Herman should never be in charge.

Severide is a Lieutenant and would need to take the Captain and then Chief tests, something he’s indicated multiple times he has no interest in. He has the exact level of responsibility that he likes and isn’t interested in increasing it.
 

Not to say that Herman should be in charge! Herman should never be in charge of anything.

[Sandman]

12 hours ago, CoyoteBlue said:

Their deal was too weird (I still don't know what Pascal's past is about)

I don’t either, and that’s part of what makes her exit feel premature to me: why hint at all this freaky backstory, including Chekhov’s Gun Range Lessons, if we’re just  going to run her over 2 appearances or so later? It feels unfinished somehow. 

ETA: I’m not sure Hermann should be in charge of packing lunch for his children. Thank goodness most of them are old enough not to starve. 

Edited March 6 by Sandman
Oh, Hermann.

[iMonrey]

It felt like a bait and switch. The previews implied one of the regular cast members wouldn't make it out of this episode alive. Not a recurring character we've only seen a few times.

I'm really not interested in Stella and Kelly's adoption story either. This show is turning into such a soap opera. 

If Jenner is that lazy/incompetent, why hasn't he been suspended before this? Why would all the other firefighters be standing behind him? Would you really want to work with someone who just bails on the job? I'm not sure where this is going. With all the focus on Damon this episode I thought maybe he was going to be the one who wound up dead.

[sweetandsour]

3 hours ago, anna0852 said:

Severide is a Lieutenant and would need to take the Captain and then Chief tests, something he’s indicated multiple times he has no interest in. He has the exact level of responsibility that he likes and isn’t interested in increasing it.

Absolutely.  Severide is Squad Lieutenant at a house he loves and Lead Fire Cop for all of Chicago.  He doesn't want anything else at work.

I guess the only way we'll get any insight into the weird Pascal marriage is if Dom tells someone at the firehouse, a chaplain, or a therapist (ha! yeah right).  If Tuesday was still in the picture, I would hope that Dom would have an informative heart-to-heart with the dog about his weird marriage, but that's not going to happen.  We might get some flashbacks to give us answers.

Maybe his traumatic loss will lead to him approving Damon back at 51.  He would never do that under normal circumstances.  Are they going to put Damon on Engine so at least he is not reporting to his sister-in-law?  Or will they just toss all sensibility and rules out and say, no, the more family in the same chain of command, the better?

One thing the adoption guy should have asked, and I hope he asked, is "who takes custody of your adopted child in the event you are both incapacitated or worse?"  Who would Kidd and Severide designate???  Kidd avoided her family for a really long time, but I guess they have reconnected and she could say her Aunt or her cousin.  Kelly has no family to rely on.  He can't name youngster Damon.  Would they say, " our great friends and fellow parents, Matt Casey and Sylvie Brett in Oregon?????"

[FnkyChkn34]

13 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Pretty neat rescue method used in that basement.  I do have a question, though.  Is it common in large FDs to send search/rescue personnel in ahead of their water supply?  I know the show can't use up props by spraying water, but to me this gives a really bad impression of FD procedures.

Yes - they have to find the people and save them before they cook them.  If they sprayed water on the fire before they knew where any victim was, they'd boil them alive.  Sorry to be graphic, but I think previous seasons have addressed this.  There was one bad fire (the one where Otis died, I think? or maybe an earlier fire where Casey hid under a filing cabinet?  anyway...) where they were all trapped and they had to "send the water."  Boden ordered them to find shelter, hunker down, and hope for the best.

3 hours ago, preeya said:

Should the chief position open up, wouldn't Severide be the next in command choice? IMHO, Herman should never be in charge.

3 hours ago, anna0852 said:

Severide is a Lieutenant and would need to take the Captain and then Chief tests, something he’s indicated multiple times he has no interest in. He has the exact level of responsibility that he likes and isn’t interested in increasing it.

Casey was made Captain as a merit promotion and never took the test.  Severide should at least have had that for himself too by now!  He makes more saves, plus solves arson investigations, so the fact that he isn't at least a Captain is ridiculous, IMO.  I think I mentioned this last week or the week before - Severide would be my choice.  He can get an assistant to do the paperwork that he doesn't want to do. 

As for the episode, I didn't think of Monica being the victim.  I didn't even remember she existed... I thought it was going to be Damon.  If they try to get him to come back to 51 now, while the Chief is grieving, that would be laughable.  Pascal is already going to be pissed just seeing Severide and Kidd together, reminding him of his own marriage.  Damon needs to go away.

I also think Mouch is comfortable never getting a command if it means he doesn't have to leave 51.  He was good on Med, too. 

 

[threebluestars]

There are way, way, way too many adoption storylines on this show.

Gabby

Casey

Brett

Cruz

Kidd/Severide

Plus Brett was adopted herself.

 

[FnkyChkn34]

3 minutes ago, sweetandsour said:

One thing the adoption guy should have asked, and I hope he asked, is "who takes custody of your adopted child in the event you are both incapacitated or worse?"  Who would Kidd and Severide designate???  Kidd avoided her family for a really long time, but I guess they have reconnected and she could say her Aunt or her cousin.  Kelly has no family to rely on.  He can't name youngster Damon.  Would they say, " our great friends and fellow parents, Matt Casey and Sylvie Brett in Oregon?????"

Cruz and Chloe.  Severide still has his sister, Katie, too.  And his mom.

[Dowel Jones]

1 hour ago, sweetandsour said:

One thing the adoption guy should have asked, and I hope he asked, is "who takes custody of your adopted child in the event you are both incapacitated or worse?"

An even more basic question should be, "You're both on the same shift.  Who is going to watch the child for 48 hours at a time?"  And, following that, is Stella still going to bartend on her nights off?

[anna0852]

8 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

An even more basic question should be, "You're both on the same shift.  Who is going to watch the child for 48 hours at a time?"  And, following that, is Stella still going to bartend on her nights off?

To be fair, the shifts are 24 hours not 48. It’s one day on two days off and that’s pretty doable with a nanny. It would actually be harder to juggle if they didn’t work in the same firehouse because they might be on opposite shifts. For every day they work, they only need one day of coverage. Which means on days off parents are able to tag team the insanity of young children. It’s not one parent covering everything while the other ones at work and then vice versa.
 

 

[NJRadioGuy]

21 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Is it common in large FDs to send search/rescue personnel in ahead of their water supply?  I know the show can't use up props by spraying water, but to me this gives a really bad impression of FD procedures.

6 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Yes - they have to find the people and save them before they cook them.  If they sprayed water on the fire before they knew where any victim was, they'd boil them alive.  Sorry to be graphic, but I think previous seasons have addressed this.

That is a TV story plot, absolutely not IRL. In normal circumstances S.O.P. would be to make entry with water available. Trapped with a wall of fire between you and an exit is a Very Bad Place to be. You want to dump as much water as you can on it. Yes, steam can be a risk but that risk is mitigated by training and fire physics. An overwhelming amount of water takes the heat and perhaps fuel out of the equation. A fire like that would probably have at least one 1-3/4 attack line; maybe two.

Here, any non-A.I. fire is generated with gas jets so hitting the source with real water would probably mess things up in terms of movie magic, or at least risk damaging the sets in case they need to do multiple takes. 

IRL Engine would almost certainly be the first in the door with Truck close in for the primary search, a second Truck company opening up the roof and ventilating, and a third for personnel safety (FAST truck in FDNY parlance). Knock down as much fire as you can and give the truckees a safe space to work. After the first sweep then a secondary search is also conducted.

There would be at least 4 or 5 engine companies at a scene of that nature as well, and where was Pascal? A working fire gets at least a B.C. if not also a D.C.

Speaking of Pascal, Mulroney pulled out all the stops in the final scene. Mad props to him.

I do NOT buy, for one red-hot minute, that Jerome's buddies would take his side once the facts came out, and moreso that Jerome himself would be stupid enough to double down. I do buy that he panicked and made a terrible decision, but everything afterwards I don't. And I still don't care about Damon. Or BAYBEEEE. Bleargh to both storylines.

[FnkyChkn34]

9 hours ago, NJRadioGuy said:

That is a TV story plot, absolutely not IRL. . . .

I understand, but we are "living" in show reality when watching the show.  This is how they've always explained it, but sometimes they do go in with water at the same time.  They never use it immediately though, for... reasons.  

But also, I follow my local volunteer fire department on social media, and watch the local news, and most house fires are described as "Truck arrived first on the scene, made entry, and did the initial search of the scene..."  Then they usually say something like "Engine followed up and the fire was under control in x amount of time..." 

Not going in with full hoses blasting when they don't know where the people are makes sense to me.   

[NJRadioGuy]

2 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I understand, but we are "living" in show reality when watching the show.  This is how they've always explained it, but sometimes they do go in with water at the same time.  They never use it immediately though, for... reasons.  

But also, I follow my local volunteer fire department on social media, and watch the local news, and most house fires are described as "Truck arrived first on the scene, made entry, and did the initial search of the scene..."  Then they usually say something like "Engine followed up and the fire was under control in x amount of time..." 

Not going in with full hoses blasting when they don't know where the people are makes sense to me.   

In "Show World" I get it and play along because it's just entertainment. Sets have to be preserved, they're actors not firemen, cameras, lighting, and VFX gear have to be protected, etc. The story is "guy's trapped, get him out alive," so they stage the shots so the cameras can capture the action and we have to hand-wave the lack of water one way or the other. It sucks and I hate it, but here we are :).

In a real fire you can't see more than a few inches in front of your mask. You see two things: black and red, and you put the blue stuff on the red stuff. IRL you search with your hands, not your eyes, and you're low, on your knees. If you're lucky enough to only have a light smoke condition then you stand a good chance of successful rescue, but no way you turn your back on the fire without a way to fight back at it when it turns on you, because it will.

It's not "hoses blasting," though, it's "Find the fire and hit it with enough water to knock it down," and that could be anything from a fog to full-bore, or something in-between. All you want to do is cool things down and stop combustion, or at the very least prevent it from becoming something unsurvivable. But you absolutely want to go in with water available. No need to open the nozzle until it's necessary, but having a charged line is essential.

There are traditionally more engine companies than ladder companies in most places, and they will almost always get on scene first ("First Due"). In an ideal world they'll have water on the fire within 60-90 seconds with a second crew doing the primary search. You'll have a nozzleman and backup, and at least one other doing the primary search along side if there's suspected entrapment.

I'm not from Chicagoland, but it's pretty much the same everywhere in North America. For a relatively small fire, the call will be for 2, 3, or 4 engines, 2 or 3 truck companies, one or two chiefs, and maybe a rescue squad. From reading online, with CFD it's generally 2-and-2 with a Chief, so 16 FFs on what they call a Still Alarm. If it's a confirmed job they'll also have the squad and a R.I.T. (rapid intervention team, in case things go sideways and the FFs have to be rescued), with additional resources as commanded by the chief.

All told, they're establishing a water supply, getting lines in operation ASAP, running the pumps, doing primary and secondary searches, ventilation, suppression, protecting exposures, etc, all happening pretty much simultaneously. 

But I cannot stress this strongly enough, the thought of going in without water is nuts because you simply don't know what's waiting for you. A "simple grab" might well turn into your death for the lack of water. Now maybe policies have changed since my family was on the job in the aughts (and before), but I strongly doubt it.

[Dowel Jones]

The reason I posted the original question was because a FD in a city near me went into a local library fire, and two lives were lost when they became trapped by debris while they were doing a search but had no hoseline backup.  It really shook the entire fire community in the county.

[NJRadioGuy]

24 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

The reason I posted the original question was because a FD in a city near me went into a local library fire, and two lives were lost when they became trapped by debris while they were doing a search but had no hoseline backup.  It really shook the entire fire community in the county.

Dear ghods, I'm just reading about that incident now. And that's precisely the scenario that the earlier posted described: report of entrapment, crew goes in without water, gets disoriented, and...yeah. I'll let the article speak for itself:

"Figueroa and Patrick entered the library without a hoseline after a bystander reported that a woman with a walker was on the second floor. As fire conditions worsened, the incident commander ordered a defensive attack and attempted to contact the crew, but received no response, according to the NIOSH report.

"A rapid intervention team (RIT) was deployed to locate the missing firefighters. A minute later, Figueroa called a mayday, reporting low air and difficulty finding the stairs. The RIT found him in a bathroom and removed him from the building, but he later succumbed to his injuries at the hospital. Multiple attempts to rescue Patrick were unsuccessful due to deteriorating conditions and structural collapse. His body was recovered by an urban search and rescue team the following day."