S24.E13 In God We Trust

[Xeliou66]

Episode description 

A young lawyer with a secret past is found dead; Price and Baxter debate the pros and cons of prison as a punishment versus alternative justice options. 

[dubbel zout]

A friend of mine played the victim's father!

It would be a nice change of pace to see a case that didn't blow up spectacularly in Price and Maroun's faces. Make the monkey wrench something they can have Shaw and Riley clear up. Or hey, about have Price and Maroun do some fancy legal footwork?

I understand restorative justice, but how does that translate to the guy working in his community doing the same thing he'd be doing even if he hadn't committed murder?

I'm also getting tired of Price and/or Maroun getting wobbly about a charge or what they have to do to convict. Justice is an imperfect, messy business.

Edited February 21 by dubbel zout
belated typo

[Xeliou66]

This was a very good episode overall - I loved the investigation as usual, good detective work by Riley/Shaw, even though it was predictable where it was going it was still well done, not every case has to have a lot of shocking twists or be sensational - this was simply a murder committed by a jealous boyfriend over a love triangle, with the added component of the sheltered community.

But Price was getting on my nerves this week, after Maroun did last week - Price was starting to go soft because of sympathy for the families, thankfully Baxter held his ground and I was cheering his every word when he told Price to stick to the law and that the legal system they worked in was what they should go by and follow. I also liked Baxter telling the attorney that he wasn’t going for restorative justice for murder. I’m not opposed to restorative justice in some cases but murder is murder and must be punished severely. I was very glad the murderer got the lengthy sentence he deserved, and I really liked Baxter. I was also glad Maroun didn’t go soft and went at the fiancé/wife which got the husband to plead guilty.

It was predictable that the judge would toss the confession and that the victim’s mom would have a change of heart.

Overall this was strong, like I say a lot of it I could see coming but it was executed well and I liked having a more ordinary case instead of one filled with twists or involving the rich and famous. Riley/Shaw remain my favorite part of the show, and Baxter was really strong as well here. I agree that Price/Maroun can be too soft at times, at least Maroun was fine this week. Solid case that flowed well. Good episode.

[Irlandesa]

Yeah, I thought this was probably the strongest episode of the season.  Or at least the least frustrating case. 

They got a bit of a luck with the pregnancy and the fact that Jacob was willing to confess to protect his fiancee's reputation. 

[dubbel zout]

"A bit of luck" is one way to put it, lol. As soon as the woman fainted in the church, I knew she was pregnant, and I inwardly groaned. In some ways, I'd have rather seen the case go to the jury and have them acquit, instead of falling back on such a contrivance as pregnancy.

[marny]

So Price feels sad for the young white guy who jealously murders the guy his girlfriend loves because he's softspoken and part of a "sheltered religious society", but had zero conflict a few episodes ago about sending a Black man with zero criminal record to prison for life for murdering the man who was abusing and sex trafficking his daughter? Got it. 

I'm a big believer in restorative justice, but this wasn't the case. It was simply a bunch of people who were afraid to go against the pastor's family out of fear they'd be shunned. Really not that different than a gang case where fellow members won't testify against the leader/kingpin for fear of retribution.

[marc20]

they clearly have come to the conclusion that lack of a sense of humor, at least between the two detectives, was missing from the reboot as compared to the original...Riley/Shaw aren't Briscoe with Logan, Curtis, or Green...but they're trying :)

[shapeshifter]

When they were talking about giving the killer a pass, no mention of a guy who killed in a jealous rage likely to do so again or maybe abuse his wife if he thinks she is lusting after someone at work or maybe even abuse the child of the guy he killed???

OTOH, he looked like the other guys in prison would have him for lunch in his first week.

[storyskip]

Yep. At this point I’m even more convinced that this season’s arc for Price is for his exit.

[CheshireCat]

9 hours ago, marny said:

So Price feels sad for the young white guy who jealously murders the guy his girlfriend loves because he's softspoken and part of a "sheltered religious society", but had zero conflict a few episodes ago about sending a Black man with zero criminal record to prison for life for murdering the man who was abusing and sex trafficking his daughter? Got it. 

I had similar thoughts and felt it was an odd choice on the writers' end. In addition to what you said above, I was surprised that no one in the DAs office thought about the precedent it would set. Wouldn't it give anyone with strong ties to a religious community grounds to argue that they will pay their penance in the church community? What about honor killings? They're permitted in certain cultures/communities, so, how would that differ in Price's mind? How would he justify prosecuting honor killings by someone of Muslim faith but letting the Christian murderer go free even though what he did wasn't all that different from an honor killing. After all, he, too, killed someone because the woman he wanted wasn't doing what he wanted her to do, had chosen someone else and was making her own choices. The difference is, he killed the man but the motive is fairly similar in principle.

There's also the fact that Price ruined a young, dedicated cop's career over perjury in that aforementioned episode. And last week, he was so hungry for a conviction that he chose to go after the mother of the victim even though the mother was a victim herself.

How was the relationship the parishioners had with their church any different from the abusive relationships the mother had been in all her life? The church prohibited the parents to speak with their son because he left the church and they obeyed. Based on how they communicated that, I don't think they did so because they wanted to. I think they did so because they were afraid of the consequences and I think they'd only be afraid of the consequences if they were in an unhealthy dependency relationship. I'd consider that as a sign that the relationship they have with the church is the equivalent of an abusive relationship. 

But in this episode, Price wasn't bothered by any of that and when the mother of the victim perjured herself, he didn't even ask to treat the witness as a hostile witness, although, she struck me as the type of person who would have broken had he done so. He just looked on as she gave her speech. 

I was also surprised that no one argued religion. As far as I understood, the church is Christian, so, what about the ten commandments? No one asked any member about the ones they violated, no one asked if they thought God thought it was cool that they violated the commandments to protect someone who'd done something the church said they didn't do - raise a hand against someone. 

The community acted like they were saints and yet, I think the teachings of their curch are based in anything but Christian values. 

While I felt there was great ambiguity in the case about the Black father who killed the man who abused and trafficked his daughter, and I could see both sides in last week's case, I don't think there was any ambiguity here. So yeah, from where I'm sitting, this felt like a very strange case to have Price have doubts about prosecuting and I think they did Price's character a disservice. (I also felt it was kind of frustrating because of all of the above).

 

 

 

 

[storyskip]

Everything being mentioned here is why I’m start to think this is leading up to Price’s exit. Which will be a major bummer for me because I only came back to L&O for Dancy, Donovan, and Waterson.

 I’m thinking Price is been written towards have a full on crisis of conscience, which will see him leave at the end of the season. He’ll either go back to being a Public Defender, or maybe go all in on this idea of Restorative Justice.

Then, either Maroun will get promoted to EADA, or the “Restorative Justice” lady will flip positions with Nolan and will be the next EADA.

[Irlandesa]

I'm not convinced that Price is leaving but if he does, I doubt they'll promote Maroun to ADA. 

The ADA role is the most prominent on the law side.  I suspect we'd get someone recognizable.  Not necessarily a huge name but not a nobody either.  The last three people they've brought on are Maura Tierney (long career), Tony Goldwyn (long career) and Reid Scott (may not be familiar to everyone but definitely has been in high profile projects.)  Mechad Brooks is probably the actor with the least amount of name recognition and he has had a steady career. 

[Xeliou66]

I think if anyone is leaving at the end of this season it’s Maroun, I could see her getting burned out given how she constantly takes things personally and seems to clash with objective of the DAs office at times. Maybe this is just me being hopeful though since Maroun is my least favorite. 
I don’t think Maroun becomes lead prosecutor if Price leaves given that the actress isn’t well known, I think they would bring in someone more well known. 

[storyskip]

13 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I think if anyone is leaving at the end of this season it’s Maroun, I could see her getting burned out given how she constantly takes things personally and seems to clash with objective of the DAs office at times. Maybe this is just me being hopeful though since Maroun is my least favorite. 
I don’t think Maroun becomes lead prosecutor if Price leaves given that the actress isn’t well known, I think they would bring in someone more well known. 

This is why I’m thinking the character of Suzanne Forester was introduced. Elia Monte-Brown is a lot like Machad Brooks. A lot of steady work, maybe no break out roles, but more profile than Maroun’s actress.

And fwiw I agree with you, I’d love to see Maroun leave! But it seems to me that the past 2 to 4 episodes have ended with Price having these 30+ second pensive staring events just before the credits role.

[EtheltoTillie]

It was so obvious that confession would be tossed, given that it was tricked in the police station, even without the absurd backwards religious confessional privilege.

Edited February 23 by EtheltoTillie

[Raja]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I don’t think Maroun becomes lead prosecutor if Price leaves given that the actress isn’t well known, I think they would bring in someone more well known. 

Well they have never done it before. In universe we have had ADA's die, take the same roll in different cities and one get a judgeship. About as close as we got was the ex cop who went directly from the bar exam to handling the cases special victims brings to the DA.

While the intermediate boss has had little turn over once Captain Cragen left the 27 it was the squad LT role that seemed to draw the big TV name for the cast.

[MediaZone4K]

As much as I sympathize with the murder being a heat of the moment thing, restorative justice for this?

IMO Conversations about rehabilitation should be coming after a period punishment for committing the crime not immediately after it.

I am glad that despite Price's doubts  the DA talked him straight. The killer left the church and committed the murder in New York City jurisdiction. And what message would it send to other future murders, that they can get away with a crime/prison if they belong to a reclusive community?

To those saying Price may exit, Hugh Dancy tries, but he's not Stone or McCoy. I need to see more of Cutter for comparison, but I think that was a mistake on the original series to remove McCoy from arguing cases.

I don't know if it's an acting tick but Dancy always grits his teeth or looks like he's about to have a nervous break down during difficult conversations like when the mom stopped cooperating on the stand.

The detective pairing and the DA are fine. I think we need a new squad captain and and ADAs.

I wish Chris Noth would come back I think Logan would work well with Shaw.

Edited February 23 by MediaZone4K

[marny]

I would be happy seeing a woman as main ADA on this show (not Maroun— that actress is terrible). I can’t recall any season on Law & Order (original recipe) where the head ADA was a woman. Which is pretty bonkers for a show that’s lasted this long. 

[Raja]

43 minutes ago, marny said:

I would be happy seeing a woman as main ADA on this show (not Maroun— that actress is terrible). I can’t recall any season on Law & Order (original recipe) where the head ADA was a woman. Which is pretty bonkers for a show that’s lasted this long. 

They made their gender balance template when they relieved Captain Cragen and Mr. Robinette after season 3. With the exception of the interim DA and  the golden ticket beauty queen detective the gender balance and racial balance among the detective pair has not wavered.  Now Criminal Intent and SVU have been different beast.

58 minutes ago, MediaZone4K said:

The detective pairing and the DA are fine. I think we need a new squad captain and and ADAs.

I wish Chris Noth would come back I think Logan would work well with Shaw.

The problem being Logan was a homicide detective 30 years ago. NYPD has a mandatory retirement of 63 years of age, Fish on Barney Miller might have looked ancient but he was only about 60. SVU has a big decision to make as Captain Benson Mariska Hargitay is bumping up on mandatory retirement and Ice-T is well past  that retirement age. Though if Fin really was a Ranger at Black Hawk Down then he is playing much younger than himself being an Army veteran 15 years before that battle but the Sergeant is still near mandatory retirement himself.

[marny]

They also won’t bring Logan back because Chris Noth has sexual assault allegations against him. 

[MediaZone4K]

2 hours ago, Raja said:

They made their gender balance template when they relieved Captain Cragen and Mr. Robinette after season 3. With the exception of the interim DA and  the golden ticket beauty queen detective the gender balance and racial balance among the detective pair has not wavered.  Now Criminal Intent and SVU have been different beast.

The problem being Logan was a homicide detective 30 years ago. NYPD has a mandatory retirement of 63 years of age, Fish on Barney Miller might have looked ancient but he was only about 60. SVU has a big decision to make as Captain Benson Mariska Hargitay is bumping up on mandatory retirement and Ice-T is well past  that retirement age. Though if Fin really was a Ranger at Black Hawk Down then he is playing much younger than himself being an Army veteran 15 years before that battle but the Sergeant is still near mandatory retirement himself.

True. But this is TV they already bed the rules of reality with cases going to trial EVERY week.

1 hour ago, marny said:

They also won’t bring Logan back because Chris Noth has sexual assault allegations against him. 

Oof. Yikes.

[Xeliou66]

As I’ve said before I wish Connie had become lead prosecutor when Jack became DA - she would’ve been awesome, and she was a much better character than Cutter. So I would be absolutely fine with a female lead prosecutor but absolutely not Maroun - she’s the weak link of the current cast.

Riley/Shaw are the best part of the show, love them both, and I hope for several more seasons of them together. We’re never going to see any more characters from the show’s original run again, and I’m completely fine with that - L&O is more about plots than characters, and bringing back someone from the first 20 years would feel like a gimmick and would be very forced, plus after the way they crapped on Jamie for no reason I don’t want them to have a chance to do it again. Overall this show has a strong cast right now IMO.

My biggest issue with this season has been the infusion of personal melodrama into some of the episodes, they need to dial that back and leave the personal stuff to SVU. One reason I liked this episode a lot was because there wasn’t any personal crap thrown in.

I think if anyone is leaving it’s Maroun - maybe it’s wishful thinking and I obviously don’t know if any actor is planning to do something new, but I could definitely see Maroun getting burned out and deciding to leave the office and work as more of an activist type lawyer. 

[Irlandesa]

5 hours ago, marny said:

I would be happy seeing a woman as main ADA on this show (not Maroun— that actress is terrible). I can’t recall any season on Law & Order (original recipe) where the head ADA was a woman. Which is pretty bonkers for a show that’s lasted this long. 

They probably should get rid of both Price and Maroun and bring on a new ADA and assistant.  I would have loved for them to keep Camryn and have Maura be the ADA, Goldwyn the ADA and some new guy in the assistant role.

[Madding crowd]

I like Dancy in this role and hope he stays. I don’t think he is getting soft as much as he was tired and frustrated that the victim’s parents and baby mama didn’t want justice and refused to cooperate. And the confession was thrown out . This is the second time Brady lied to someone to get a confession. Cops can lie but there is always a chance it will get thrown out if the defense can prove it was not lawful for a particular reason. I do hope Maroun leaves, she is constantly second guessing Price and is always sympathetic to the defendant.

[Xeliou66]

23 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I like Dancy in this role and hope he stays. I don’t think he is getting soft as much as he was tired and frustrated that the victim’s parents and baby mama didn’t want justice and refused to cooperate. And the confession was thrown out . This is the second time Brady lied to someone to get a confession. Cops can lie but there is always a chance it will get thrown out if the defense can prove it was not lawful for a particular reason. I do hope Maroun leaves, she is constantly second guessing Price and is always sympathetic to the defendant.

Price has been pretty good overall this season IMO, I like him more than most do, and I think the lead prosecutor role is the hardest role in the show as the character will constantly be compared to McCoy/Stone and you just can’t get up to that level of greatness. L&O hit a grand slam when they got Sam/Jack to replace Moriarty/Stone, and future lead ADAs will get heat just because they can’t be that strong.   
Maroun can leave any time, she reminds me a lot of Serena, whiny and soft and not in line with the objectives of the DAs office. 
Overall I like the cast a lot now - Riley/Shaw are my favorites, they are an awesome detective pairing and I hope for several more years of them together. Brady has grown on me and Baxter is a good DA and I’m fine overall with Price as lead prosecutor. Maroun is the weak link.

As for the confession being suppressed this week I’m not sure how it would’ve been ruled if the guy hadn’t been a minister, police are allowed to use some forms of trickery and lies when dealing with suspects but it’s risky as a judge might toss it. This wasn’t nearly as egregious as the incident earlier in the season when Brady basically coerced a confession from the teen having a panic attack, I hated Brady then, these suspects were in their right mind and nothing was coerced but I figured it would get tossed. 

[dubbel zout]

Stone and McCoy got much better writing than Price is getting. They also had the advantage of a longer running time, and even those few minutes make a difference in how the order side is written.

25 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Maroun is the weak link.

She sure is. I know they want some disagreement among the prosecution on the cases, but Maroun more often that not has objections that don't jibe with being an ADA. And she gets truly terrible writing, so her opinions never sound too logical.

[driver18]

I miss Cutter and Rubirosa. They were the best Order pair, imo. I also agree that Stone, then McCoy are such hard acts to follow.

[Xeliou66]

Just now, driver18 said:

I miss Cutter and Rubirosa. They were the best Order pair, imo. I also agree that Stone, then McCoy are such hard acts to follow.

Love Rubirosa, can’t stand Cutter. Cutter was way too arrogant and smug and seemed to be in it for his ego more than for justice. I wish Connie had become lead prosecutor when Jack became DA. I think Connie is my favorite of the female lawyers. 

[dubbel zout]

Jamie and Abby are tied for #1 on my list (though Claire and Connie are way up there; it's only Serena and Alexandra whom I thought were not good), and again, I go back to the writing. They were passionate about the law, but they also had a sense of humor. The show feels so grim these days. Riley and Shaw get their one crack at the beginning of the episode, and that's it for anything remotely amusing. It's not trauma porn, but every case seems to have the same level of awful stuff, and after a while it doesn't mean anything.

Edited February 24 by dubbel zout

[marc20]

On 2/23/2025 at 1:31 PM, Irlandesa said:

They probably should get rid of both Price and Maroun and bring on a new ADA and assistant.  I would have loved for them to keep Camryn and have Maura be the ADA, Goldwyn the ADA and some new guy in the assistant role.

yeah, I'd like to see both gone but they've never pulled that off in one off-season

[Xeliou66]

6 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Jamie and Abby are tied for #1 on my list (though Claire and Connie are way up there; it's only Serena and Alexandra whom I thought were not good), and again, I go back to the writing. They were passionate about the law, but they also had a sense of humor. The show feels so grim these days. Riley and Shaw get their one crack at the beginning of the episode, and that's it for anything remotely amusing. It's not trauma porn, but every case seems to have the same level of awful stuff, and after a while it doesn't mean anything.

Agreed that Serena and Alex are the two ADAs I didn’t care for and Maroun reminds me a lot of Serena.  
I don’t think L&O is trauma porn by any means, not moreso than any other crime procedural, it’s always been a case centric, no nonsense type of show - I agree I would like a bit more humor in it but no one can match Lennie Briscoe as far as delivering great one liners (or Adam for that matter on the legal side). 
The biggest issue with L&O right now has been the infusion of personal melodrama into the show, I think that giving the characters personal issues in some of the episodes has made the show less enjoyable and more soap opera-ish, I don’t want the characters lives bogged down with personal melodramatic crap, it can make the characters miserable and weakens the show. 

One reason I liked this episode a lot was because it was a more “ordinary” type of case - a more routine murder committed over a love triangle, the people involved weren’t famous, there wasn’t much in the way of politics, they touched on issues of restorative justice and the utopian closed off community but it wasn’t heavy handed and they avoided going overboard with their portrayal of the community, and there was no personal melodrama, overall it was just a solid investigation and legal work of a murder case. This was one of the season’s best episodes, I hope there are more like it coming up. 

[ML89]

22 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Jamie and Abby are tied for #1 on my list (though Claire and Connie are way up there; it's only Serena and Alexandra whom I thought were not good), and again, I go back to the writing. They were passionate about the law, but they also had a sense of humor. The show feels so grim these days. Riley and Shaw get their one crack at the beginning of the episode, and that's it for anything remotely amusing. It's not trauma porn, but every case seems to have the same level of awful stuff, and after a while it doesn't mean anything.

I liked Cutter and Rubirosa and Ben and Claire the best, I think, although Serena was about the only one I really couldn't stand before this team. I think either Price or Maroun might be better if they were paired with someone else - together they are terrible.

I so agree on how grim the show seems. I find myself happy when we get to the "find the body" without having actually seen the person murdered, which they thankfully seem to be backing off on a bit. There's no snap to the writing, and everything seems just washed out in the cinematography, although I know that's a side effect of shooting digital.

This one, I really wanted to slap Price sideways. Seriously, the pastor could have not murdered the lawyer. This isn't your "got caught in a bar fight" or whatever it was, this guy bludgeoned someone he knew to death. Pastor had it coming, to badly paraphrase Chicago. I felt sorry for the girlfriend although her "I can't drive" - you could move to NYC, I'm told that many people there can't drive. You've already got a support system. Instead, you're going to marry a guy off to jail for years who's already demonstrated that he's got a hair trigger, and will be backed up by the whole community against you.

[Zaffy]

I am kind of bored of all these moral dilemmas for the shake of dilemmas.. 
Inconsistent characters, stupid judges' rulings all for each episode's "in your face" debate.
boring..

[CrystalBlue]

I thought the guest cast was really good. Kudos to the casting department.  I don't think they could have done a better job getting more authentic-looking secluded sect members.