S02.E06: Attila

[arc]

2 minutes ago, AstridM said:

That frolic tattoo was shown for a mere few seconds that first time in the diner, IIRC. 

Yes. I just checked. In 2x02, he's holding a cup of coffee, and from that shot on his hand the camera immediately pulls back a bit to show it's Mr Drummond, established earlier in the episode.

He's been a really crucial secondary cast member! He personally spied on the Scout siblings, then approved the replacement MDR workers, and then after that he's the one who approved (or spoke for the board in) rehiring Mark's friends and forcing some version of Helly back to MDR.

10 minutes ago, AstridM said:

It sounds like you’ve spent more time than the average viewer watching these episodes. Maybe keep that in mind before assuming others haven’t been paying attention.

To be clear, I don't rewatch entire episodes very often at all. I've just been rewatching bits and pieces here for purposes of replying to the forum thread in order to confirm what I already remembered from watching the first time. Because I was paying attention the first time.

[JenE4]

I always had the impression that Drummond is a spokesperson for the board, like Natalie. If Natalie is the voice of the board, Drummond is the muscle. Natalie is only trusted to pass messages along verbatim, in real time. I assume Drummond is more of a fixer. The board tells him there’s a problem and entrusts him to take care of it. 

[peachmangosteen]

16 hours ago, KarenX said:

I straight up despise Gretchen for exploiting Dylan the Innie because she’s bored. She’s awful.

I kinda didn't like her right away but I thought maybe it was because I sort of have an irrational annoyance of Merritt Wever's acting. Now though I think she just actually does suck.

5 hours ago, JenE4 said:

I always had the impression that Drummond is a spokesperson for the board, like Natalie. If Natalie is the voice of the board, Drummond is the muscle. Natalie is only trusted to pass messages along verbatim, in real time. I assume Drummond is more of a fixer. The board tells him there’s a problem and entrusts him to take care of it. 

That would make sense but it would be odd for 'the muscle' to conduct Milchick's performance review.

Edited February 23 by peachmangosteen

[JenE4]

6 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

 

That would make sense but it would be odd for 'the muscle' to conduct Milchick's performance review.

When I say fixer/muscle, I don’t mean just physically. Drummond was also the one who told Helena she had to get Helly back in there. I think when there’s any tough “convincing” that needs to be done, Drummond passes along the message from the board that you have no choice in the matter. 

[Affogato]

50 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I kinda didn't like her right away but I thought maybe it was because I sort of have an irrational annoyance of Merritt Wever's acting. Now though I think she just actually does suck.

That would make sense but it would be odd for 'the muscle' to conduct Milchick's performance review.

It may be that the refning group is actually the whole focus of the severance program. It is at minimum a really vital experiment. I’m theorizing, in bringing the dead back to life. I really suspect ‘the board’ is deceased. Even if not, drummond clearly has oversight o er this particular program.Helena does not, she probably does not have an actual job in the company (except for Helly). 

50 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I kinda didn't like her right away but I thought maybe it was because I sort of have an irrational annoyance of Merritt Wever's acting. Now though I think she just actually does suck.

It is an unusual circumstance. Also she is obviously bearing the brunt of the stress in the family. InnieD may remind her of why she fell in love with Dylan in the first place. 

Edited February 23 by Affogato

[iMonrey]

17 hours ago, lovett1979 said:

From Wikipedia: Rape by deception is a situation in which the perpetrator deceives the victim into participating in a sexual act to which they would otherwise not have consented, had they not been deceived. Deception can occur in many forms, such as illusory perceptions, false statements, and false actions.

I would say that this is applicable to Helena/Mark because, while he did consent to sex, he consented to sex with Helly NOT with Helena.

With all due respect to Wikipedia, it's an all-too common TV trope where a man is "tricked" into having sex with someone - especially on soap operas. And I am not comfortable defining these tropes as "rapes." I know it's a sensitive topic and people can get very triggered, but men being "tricked" into having sex with a woman when they think it's really some other woman? How often do you suppose that happens in real life? And to categorize it as rape, IMO, diminishes an actual violent crime of assault. 

I'll allow that Mark was violated, but I cannot apply such a liberal definition to actual rape.

[Affogato]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

With all due respect to Wikipedia, it's an all-too common TV trope where a man is "tricked" into having sex with someone - especially on soap operas. And I am not comfortable defining these tropes as "rapes." I know it's a sensitive topic and people can get very triggered, but men being "tricked" into having sex with a woman when they think it's really some other woman? How often do you suppose that happens in real life? And to categorize it as rape, IMO, diminishes an actual violent crime of assault. 

I'll allow that Mark was violated, but I cannot apply such a liberal definition to actual rape.

Yeah, the trope is ‘science fiction rape’, or so I have heard it called.  But that isn’t the point. It was sex without consent. Consent isn’t clean cut. This is, though, because Helena knew she wasn’t Helly and knew Mark thought she was. 
 

 

[arc]

5 hours ago, Affogato said:

Also she is obviously bearing the brunt of the stress in the family.

Yeah. Outie Dylan has three kids but Gretchen effectively has to deal with four. =( 

[Pi237]

7 hours ago, Affogato said:

InnieD may remind her of why she fell in love with Dylan in the first place. 

That’s what I took from their scenes. InnieD is interested in her and their kids. He’s paying full attention to her and everything she says. He Wants to know her and know about their family. OutieDylan wants to buy a car and couldn’t care less (or is oblivious to) how his actions affect his wife and family.  He must have been more attentive when they were dating, which is usually how it goes. She seemed to enjoy having an attentive husband again. 

[maddie965]

This is a great read about the consent issue: https://mashable.com/article/severance-consent-mark-helly-helena

 

Edited February 24 by maddie965

[KarenX]

2 hours ago, Pi237 said:

That’s what I took from their scenes. InnieD is interested in her and their kids. He’s paying full attention to her and everything she says. He Wants to know her and know about their family. OutieDylan wants to buy a car and couldn’t care less (or is oblivious to) how his actions affect his wife and family.  He must have been more attentive when they were dating, which is usually how it goes. She seemed to enjoy having an attentive husband again. 

Then she should leave Outie Dylan, and co-parent/collect child support, and find a different husband.

She is using a man (Innie Dylan) to feel better about herself, in an environment where she can literally coordinate with Innie Dylan’s boss to summon Innie Dylan on her schedule, for Feel Good Gretchen Time.

If this were non-exploitative, then Dylan would be given reasonable productivity goals he could choose to meet for established incentives. He could be an active participant in this. He is not. This is happening to him, outside of his control. And the info Gretchen provides about his children and family is just a list of facts that Dylan seems to enjoy equally.

Gross gross gross

[dwmarch]

4 hours ago, arc said:

Yeah. Outie Dylan has three kids but Gretchen effectively has to deal with four. =( 

Dylan clearly has ADHD, which is a disability. It may be diagnosed or undiagnosed (or Lumon-diagnosed as some misalignment of his "tempers") but it is obvious that he has it. If Gretchen can't or won't support him in his neurological disability then she is in an abusive relationship and she is the abuser. ADHD cannot be cured by telling people they aren't living up to their potential or they should try harder or any of the other things neurotypical people have been telling them since childhood. You'd never go up to someone in a wheelchair and tell them they could walk if they just tried harder or applied themselves or focused more. Bearing this in mind, I think Gretchen is a Lumon plant. We can already see that she has neutralized Dylan's innie and that she has no qualms about lying and cheating.

[KarenX]

8 minutes ago, dwmarch said:

I think Gretchen is a Lumon plant. We can already see that she has neutralized Dylan's innie and that she has no qualms about lying and cheating.

Hmmm. I’m not sure how many Lumon plants can be in one office. Helena yes, Burt, maybe? but I think he was severed to get Fields—who he doesn’t seem to love—to shut up about his infidelities. Gretchen too would be too many.

I think a main theme of the show is “how to survive a corrupt regime” and the show is demonstrating that people living within a corrupt regime are all corrupted by it. 
 

Even Devon. She really had no answer for Ricken when he pointed out that his idiotic Innie book was paying their mortgage. Even the Innies are losing their innocence. Maybe Irving is the least corrupted so far, but we don’t really know what he does with his lists and secret documents.

[Dev F]

23 hours ago, arc said:

I just assumed given that Mark and Helly took a sex break that no one's keeping minute-to-minute tabs on them working or not working.

I think it's more that they now expect the MDR team not to spend every minute working. The "hall passes" and other new amenities ensure that they'll be spending time futzing around, which is something Lumon considers a worthwhile sacrifice if it means Mark finishes Cold Harbor.

But there's still probably someone in charge of whatever's going on with Ms. Casey who regularly looks at the progress of Cold Harbor to see whether the various incentives are proving useful to her progress. (And maybe other guys who are assigned to whatever projects are attached to Helly's, Irving's, and Dylan's refinement files and are pissed that their tasks are at a virtual standstill as the bosses go all in on Cold Harbor!)

Edited February 24 by Dev F

[KarenX]

19 hours ago, arc said:

I don't think that [Milchick self-flagellating] was meant to be fun for the audience. It's meant to show how the drawbacks of this job keep piling up on Milchick. His employees hate him -- for good reason, sure -- and his bosses treat him with casual and wholly unearned disdain despite his loyalty. Everyone at Lumon from Kier Eagan onward uses ornate vocabulary; it feels especially demeaning that he was asked to stop.

Hell, it's been almost non-stop crisis ever since Petey reintegrated and went AWOL. <snip>

He self-flagellated because he's cracking under the strain.

Ok. I mean… Milchick cracking under the strain, reasonable, yes, expected. Milchick turning into some true believer hairshirt repentance cult stuff…. No. That was not earned by the characterization of Milchick to this point. It was weird for no reason, imposing cult world-building where it doesn’t belong and is redundant. It’s bad writing.

Ms Cobel is already a quasi-monastic devotee to Lumon the ReligionIMeanCorporation. We don’t need to see Milchick do it too.

Milchick’s story of an outsider with an upper management career trying to advance himself by meeting the needs of employees beneath him and of the executives above him was already interesting. There are so many ways he could crack. I thought the paperclip punishment he imposed on himself was a perfect amount of crazy. I also thought his shaking hand and Mark Scout’s shaking hand built on the suggestion from last episode (their scene in the elevator) that Mark and Milchick will become allies (I hope as a season cliffhanger!)

It was perfect! And then the secret mirror and the talking to your reflection and it was weird for the sake of weird and redundant and unbelievable from Milchick and thus boring. And I don’t love that the writers added it to this show. 

[Affogato]

44 minutes ago, dwmarch said:

Dylan clearly has ADHD, which is a disability. It may be diagnosed or undiagnosed (or Lumon-diagnosed as some misalignment of his "tempers") but it is obvious that he has it. If Gretchen can't or won't support him in his neurological disability then she is in an abusive relationship and she is the abuser. ADHD cannot be cured by telling people they aren't living up to their potential or they should try harder or any of the other things neurotypical people have been telling them since childhood. You'd never go up to someone in a wheelchair and tell them they could walk if they just tried harder or applied themselves or focused more. Bearing this in mind, I think Gretchen is a Lumon plant. We can already see that she has neutralized Dylan's innie and that she has no qualms about lying and cheating.

Or the symptoms of adhd can be indistinguishable from thise of many trauma victims. We are jerry springerifying a couple of meetinfs between gretchen and idylan and then dr philling the poor guy. 
 

The innies don’t have baggage. Like kids. Gretchen is tenderhearted and responds to childlike Dylan. He is her husband, she also responds sexually. When does she have time in outie life? But it is uncomfortable. It is and isn’t cheating. 

Edited February 24 by Affogato

[Affogato]

All four of the team have sad lives, even Helly was probably desperate to not be the fetid maggot of the family. 
 

[lovett1979]

1 hour ago, dwmarch said:

Dylan clearly has ADHD, which is a disability.

How is that clear? There has been nothing to indicate that. And if Outie Dylan had ADHD, which is in the brain, wouldn't Innie Dylan have it too? But Innie Dylan has none of the issues Outie Dylan seems to have so how does that work?

There's also been nothing to suggest that Gretchen is a mole or a Lumon operative. And, honestly, that would be boring. A woman falling for her husband (who's not entirely her husband) again and lying about it is a fascinating moral quandary for all involved.

Lumon is definitely taking advantage of the fact of her (and the opportunity for Innie Dylan to get time with her) as a way to keep him working more and not sneaking around with the other MDRers. But that's not HER motivation for the visits.

Also, if everyone is a mole and the whole thing is just a Truman Show around Mark, what's the point of anything?

[AstridM]

2 hours ago, dwmarch said:

Dylan clearly has ADHD, which is a disability. It may be diagnosed or undiagnosed (or Lumon-diagnosed as some misalignment of his "tempers") but it is obvious that he has it. If Gretchen can't or won't support him in his neurological disability then she is in an abusive relationship and she is the abuser. ADHD cannot be cured by telling people they aren't living up to their potential or they should try harder or any of the other things neurotypical people have been telling them since childhood. You'd never go up to someone in a wheelchair and tell them they could walk if they just tried harder or applied themselves or focused more. Bearing this in mind, I think Gretchen is a Lumon plant. We can already see that she has neutralized Dylan's innie and that she has no qualms about lying and cheating.

Thank you! I wanted to say this earlier but the comment made me too angry to be able to reply coherently. (While I agree wholeheartedly about the ADHD, I’m not sure Gretchen is a Lumon plant.)

Edited February 24 by AstridM

[Affogato]

14 hours ago, lovett1979 said:

How is that clear? There has been nothing to indicate that. And if Outie Dylan had ADHD, which is in the brain, wouldn't Innie Dylan have it too? But Innie Dylan has none of the issues Outie Dylan seems to have so how does that work?

There's also been nothing to suggest that Gretchen is a mole or a Lumon operative. And, honestly, that would be boring. A woman falling for her husband (who's not entirely her husband) again and lying about it is a fascinating moral quandary for all involved.

Lumon is definitely taking advantage of the fact of her (and the opportunity for Innie Dylan to get time with her) as a way to keep him working more and not sneaking around with the other MDRers. But that's not HER motivation for the visits.

Also, if everyone is a mole and the whole thing is just a Truman Show around Mark, what's the point of anything?

I know someone who was tested for adhd. The test is long, like 12 hours. Long. Definitive diagnosis. That aside there are other possible reasons for outie Dylan’s behavior. So who knows. 
 

For all we know Burt might have invented Severance, or tried to stop it from being used. I honestly believe his romance with Irving was pure. I wonder if they fell in love twice, in fact?  While severed!
 

My Lumon suspicions are on Fields. Will see if I’m right! Meanwhile….where is Mrs Cobel?

Edited February 24 by Affogato

[Ilovepie]

19 hours ago, Affogato said:

He is her husband, she also responds sexually. When does she have time in outie life? But it is uncomfortable. It is and isn’t cheating. 

I think the fact that she lied to Outie Dylan implies that she is now emotionally cheating on Outie Dylan in this bizarre scenario.

This episode should have been called Love Triangles: Innie Mark-Helena-Helly, Fields-Burt-Outie Irving, Gretchen-Outie Dylan-Innie Dylan. All very messy.

Kind of bummed Burt is looking like he is still a "scoundrel", but he's definitely giving shady vibes. Love John Noble. This show sure nails horrible dinner parties, doesn't it?

Don't know how to take Milchick. I'm still hoping he helps the MDR team in the end.

[aghst]

Well it's the same physical person.  Different personas of the same person though.

With people debating whether Helena "raped" Mark by pretending to be Helly, maybe this question comes up when Gretchen bangs Innie Dylan.

In that case, it would be a non-severed person banging one of the severed personas.  Otherwise same body.

Whereas with Helena and Mark, it was a severed Outie pretending to be the Innie.

I don't want to get too deep into that philosophical debate.

What happens if a person has sex with one personality of a person suffering from multiple-personality disorder thinking he or she was being intimate with another personality of that person?

Is that a similar criminal or moral offense?

[Ilovepie]

However you want to label what Helena did to Mark S., it is a violation of trust and an abuse of power. Mark S. certainly would not have had sex with Helena Eagan.

And now she is doubling down by stalking Mark Scout. This woman is an asshole. 

[lovett1979]

3 hours ago, aghst said:

Well it's the same physical person.  Different personas of the same person though.

With people debating whether Helena "raped" Mark by pretending to be Helly, maybe this question comes up when Gretchen bangs Innie Dylan.

In that case, it would be a non-severed person banging one of the severed personas.  Otherwise same body.

Whereas with Helena and Mark, it was a severed Outie pretending to be the Innie.

I don't want to get too deep into that philosophical debate.

What happens if a person has sex with one personality of a person suffering from multiple-personality disorder thinking he or she was being intimate with another personality of that person?

Is that a similar criminal or moral offense?

The question is whether both parties knew who the person was who they consented to having sex with. Mark did not consent to having sex with Helena in the tent (he thought it was Helly). Should Gretchen and Innie Dylan go there, it isn't rape because they both know who the other is (though it is debatable infidelity on her part). 

I'm not sure about the legal or moral issues when it comes to having sex with a person with dissociative identity disorder. But I would highly doubt the occurrence of 1 personality tricking a romantic partner of another personality into having sex with them. 

 

[Ottis]

On 2/21/2025 at 10:53 AM, overtherainbow said:

It seems like a lot of dragging things out for the sake of dragging things out, questions on top of questions, throwing in random, weird things, and there's not a lot of continuity.

Well hey, it took them 6 episodes, but the show *finally* brought up one of the handful of points that matter in the discussion about how the outie world views innies (i.e. whether they have souls). We need a lot more of that, and a lot less of who loves who, and who should love who innie vs. outie, and other random things like an outside "retreat" as a reward that, even if it had gone well, did *not* look fun.

On 2/23/2025 at 1:05 AM, arc said:

The show piles on new questions but it answers plenty as well so the new questions aren't overwhelming.

But it takes foooooooorver to ask address any of the few questions that matter, i.e. what are the rights/standing of innies vs. outies and what is the ongoing discussion around this in the "real" (outie) world, what happens to innies when outties are fired or die, what is the work the innies are doing (and why do they do it vs. outties), and what is the purpose of having an innie (is it just to hide from pain, or is there some monetary or lifestyle benefit)? 

I don't care much about Burt and Irv and Fields and whether Mark slept with Halley or Helena and goat people and lots and lots of white hallways.

 

[Kirbyrun]

9 minutes ago, Ottis said:

But it takes foooooooorver to ask address any of the few questions that matter, i.e. what are the rights/standing of innies vs. outies and what is the ongoing discussion around this in the "real" (outie) world, what happens to innies when outties are fired or die, what is the work the innies are doing (and why do they do it vs. outties), and what is the purpose of having an innie (is it just to hide from pain, or is there some monetary or lifestyle benefit)? 

All due respect, it's your opinion that those are the questions that matter. Some of them I agree with you -- they matter very much and I am eager for the answers, but I will take them in time. Others, I think fall into the category of "nice to know," but I won't be upset if I never find out.

I think the show is doing an astonishingly good job of doling out information and balancing that with showing us new facets of the world. YMM(and clearly does)V.

[Ottis]

11 hours ago, Kirbyrun said:

All due respect, it's your opinion that those are the questions that matter. Some of them I agree with you -- they matter very much and I am eager for the answers, but I will take them in time.

I, too, can respect your opinion. I'll point out that my perspective doesn't mean I don't want it to take time to find all the answers (and pose more central questions!). This isn't a "Grog need more action!" complaint. It means that when a show throws in a bunch of uninteresting side plots focused on personal drama, it often is a bad sign for those who began to watch Severance for its fascinating mysteries.

Lost is one of my favorite examples of taking the wrong path. Don't know if you saw it, but the first season was a surprise hit. It revolved around several major questions, including (and if you haven't seen Lost, this may not make sense) why and how did these people survive a commercial plane crash, where did they crash land, what is the smoke monster and what else is on the island. I can't remember if season one introduced "the hatch," but it, too, generated a lot of interest.

Between the first and second seasons, Lost's producers started talking about how season two "would be about the characters." Groan. That usually means lots of pointless side plots and emotional drama, while the reason people were attracted to the show were set to the side and only touched a few times all season. That's when Lost doubled down on flashbacks that gave us utterly fascinating back stories like how one character got a tattoo, and how a married couple got together. 

I'm sure some people liked those character bits. But there was a growing sense of annoyance and impatience as the show wouldn't move forward with any of the original questions that brought in viewers in the first place. And of course the ending of Lost is considered by most to be a fail.

So now we have Severance, and it seems to be following the same path. I don't know if that will begin to annoy more viewers. Guess we'll see. But it is why, during the slow dinner with Fields, when the trio suddenly started talking about the religious debate over innies having souls that my head snapped up. We were back, baby! 

Anyway, that was my point, that what fascinated many people about Severance seems to be lessening in importance, while we get caught up in love stories, etc.

And as you said, YMMV. And that's fine. 

 

[ombre]

To me, the relationships that we're suddenly exploring aren't a distraction from the questions about what severance means for humanity but, rather, the very way that they are exploring and asking those questions.

(I'm typing on my phone and the ad banner at the bottom of the page keeps crashing my keyboard, so I'm going to write shortly and generally rather than with specific details.) 

The show seems to be exploring these kinds of questions - What if the person you love is someone else entirely in a different context? Non-functional? A monster? What are your obligations, opportunities? What if *you're* someone else entirely? How can you be a good person in those settings? Is there such a thing as a good or moral life in those circumstances? (the very act of everyone interpreting these things differently on these boards shows just how much grey area there is!) 

[Ottis]

I thought about it a little more, and it made me consider two scenes that the show may be stretching out vs. providing answers.

The first is the dinner with Burt, Fields and Irving. During the conversation, Fields says a few things about the past that we know (and characters confirm) to not be true. One is that he and Burt met thanks to Severance 20 years ago, but Lumon/Severance offices were not open that long ago, it was just 12 tears ago, Irving corrects.

Interesting. There could be several explanations, among them:

- Fields is being a jealous ass, and has been drinking The show seems to want us to believe it is that simple, but I'm not convinced.

- Fields is making up stuff on purpose for some reason. Not sure why that would be. A test?

- Fields is making up stuff and doesn't realize it. If he was one of the early "severed," perhaps there are long-term consequences that we haven't seen? Or perhaps he has been "severed" over many, many years somehow (or even multiple times?), and being severed over that amount of time is damaging?

- Or perhaps Fields was severed, and then reintegrated, and that act has damaging consequences?

The latter two explanation are most intriguing, because we know Mark S is trying to become "unified." Maybe that's been tried, and memory issues (or worse) are one consequence, and might Mark S be in danger if he stays on this path?

If that is anywhere close, that advances the story. If it is Fields is being a jealous ass, then meh. Fields is a peripheral character and I'm not invested in him. If we keep seeing him getting jealous over Burt and Irving's relationship, that's a soap opera, not an intriguing plot point.

The second example is the scene with Gretchen and outtie Dylan, where he mentions he wants to look at a car, she is not thrilled and he promises not to buy anything. They don't seem to have a lot of money. It's possible he buys things left and right anyway, and that is a big part of their relationship issues. But if that's the case, and he might buy a freakin *car,* then these issues should appear worse than they do. They should be borderline homeless.

Unless ... one reason why Dylan has an innie is that Lumon pays people a lot of money to sever. It becomes purely a financial transaction for people like outtie Dylan, and what happens to innie Dylan is of no consequence to outtie Dylan. That's a dirty underside to severing we haven't seen much of so far.

If the explanation is that outtie Dylan is a loser who spends money, and makes Grethen unhappy, meh. If it is more that outtie Dylan severed for money and doesn't give a crap about his innie, *that's* interesting and has more societal implications.

Which way will the show go? One is interesting and moves us forward into the world, the other belongs in a soap opera, IMO. Interested in any and all speculation on those examples!

 

[Ilovepie]

47 minutes ago, Ottis said:

If the explanation is that outtie Dylan is a loser who spends money, and makes Grethen unhappy, meh. If it is more that outtie Dylan severed for money and doesn't give a crap about his innie, *that's* interesting and has more societal implications.

I think it's both of those things. We have been shown in multiple scenes with Outie Dylan and confirmed by Gretchen that Outie Dylan struggles to find "normal" employment and is also into expensive hobbies, leaving her to be the adult in the relationship. I think the severance at Lumon was Dylan's last resort. And the fact that his Innie is into her and more assertive than his Outie is what appeals to her. 

I absolutely think for Dylan and Mark, they see their Innie's as a part of themselves, but not the "true" part - it's an escape from something. We don't have Burt or Irv's full story, and we already know Helena's stance.

[Kirbyrun]

3 hours ago, Ottis said:

Lost is one of my favorite examples of taking the wrong path. Don't know if you saw it, but the first season was a surprise hit.

I watched Lost from the very beginning! Binged the first season in two days so that I could start Season 2 the day it dropped! LOL

I do think, though, that Lost Syndrome is a thing. It seems like any time a show has a deep mystery, people start worrying that it's going to be just like Lost. In the case of Severance, we've had a total of 15 episodes so far. Not even the first season of Lost! I'm willing to give them a little more time!

I understand your worries and your fears. But I think the difference (and I have no proof for this, just my gut as a storyteller) is that Severance has an ending they want to reach. Lost didn't. Lost had a DIRECTION to go in, but they kept pushing it out further and further because, well, they had to do so many episodes and ABC liked money, etc.

Apple let Ted Lasso end at the third season. (Yes, it's coming back, but that's not the same thing.) I think they'll let Severance end when it should, without stretching it out for the money. After all, if they give Erickson and Stiller some grace on this show, who knows what else they'll make for them?

In short: I trust the driver on this ride, and I'm willing to settle back and watch the scenery he wants to show me.

[Affogato]

On 2/23/2025 at 2:05 AM, arc said:

To be clear, I don't rewatch entire episodes very often at all. I've just been rewatching bits and pieces here for purposes of replying to the forum thread in order to confirm what I already remembered from watching the first time. Because I was paying attention the first time.

To be clear I did go back and look at the conversation in Pips. I did remember it was Drummond and believe I was more interested in Devon’s reactions during the 2 seconds they showed the ‘frolic’ tattoo. One of the reasons to go on a site like this is to discover other perspectives and notice bits you may have missed. In my opinion. 

[seank941]

15 hours ago, Ottis said:

The first is the dinner with Burt, Fields and Irving. During the conversation, Fields says a few things about the past that we know (and characters confirm) to not be true. One is that he and Burt met thanks to Severance 20 years ago, but Lumon/Severance offices were not open that long ago, it was just 12 tears ago, Irving corrects.

Interesting. There could be several explanations, among them:

- Fields is being a jealous ass, and has been drinking The show seems to want us to believe it is that simple, but I'm not convinced.

- Fields is making up stuff on purpose for some reason. Not sure why that would be. A test?

- Fields is making up stuff and doesn't realize it. If he was one of the early "severed," perhaps there are long-term consequences that we haven't seen? Or perhaps he has been "severed" over many, many years somehow (or even multiple times?), and being severed over that amount of time is damaging?

- Or perhaps Fields was severed, and then reintegrated, and that act has damaging consequences?

I wonder if Fields worked with Burt to develop the original Severance procedure. Presumably, it took years to perfect before Lumon could announce it to the world, so the timing would add up.  Believing that innies are individuals with souls could be the reason he drinks so much.

I'm still waiting for the anti-severance organization to be introduced properly to the show, and maybe Fields is part of that. 

I can't imagine Lumon would allow any reintegrated person to walk the streets, damaged or not. The PR would be a nightmare, especially if severed employees were denied reintegration. I wouldn't be surprised if they tested reintegrating people, but if they actually survived I doubt they were allowed to leave the building.

[seank941]

15 hours ago, Kirbyrun said:

I do think, though, that Lost Syndrome is a thing. It seems like any time a show has a deep mystery, people start worrying that it's going to be just like Lost. In the case of Severance, we've had a total of 15 episodes so far. Not even the first season of Lost! I'm willing to give them a little more time!

I love Lost, but I think the problem is that the show didn't have a deep mystery. They had to pile on questions, because the original questions could've been answered in a season or two. 

I view this show a little more like Westworld, with the way it focuses on consciousness in enslaved beings. That show became a mess once it expanded its world too far, so for now I like the somewhat narrow focus. I still have lots of questions, but I think focusing on Mark's reintegration is a good way to expand the mystery. Once an actual outie is inside of Lumon, people on the outside might be able to shed some light on why they have a goat room, ect.

I'm not really looking forward to Gemma/Ms. Casey returning, I think she'll just be a distraction that isn't very interesting. I consider the Mark/Helena/Helly love triangle much more fascinating and thematically relevant. 

[Affogato]

On 2/23/2025 at 8:52 PM, KarenX said:

Hmmm. I’m not sure how many Lumon plants can be in one office. 

Burt showed Irving the room where the office plants were stored, probably on rotation under grow lights. That was a lot of Lumon plants. 😀