S07.16 A Hundred Thousand Angels

[AZChristian]

9 minutes ago, Iguessnot said:

. . . this forum nearly kills it with all the ads. . .

I switched from Chrome to Firefox JUST because of the ads on this site.  Apparently, Chrome and ADBlock don't play nicely together.

[taanja]

23 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

No need to apologize, just it's confusing sometimes to see it spelled differently. Sent me down a rabbit hole to see if the character is spelled that way somewhere in the books, etc. I'm old too. 😉

I spell it -- JAIME - on purpose because I like they way it looks.

[Iguessnot]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Jamie technically resigned his commission. I guess that really isn't abandoning. Who is going to track him down in the middle of the war? We know who wins, but the Yanks are barely hanging on by a thread, and that last battle where Claire got shot was only a draw. I don't know if they could press him back into service like the British did with Lord John. 

We knew the Brits left Philadelphia fast on the city, but they're not that far away. I could buy that they think Claire is married to Lord John still, and at that point, after the battle, she's not that high a priority, but plenty of them saw Jamie there with Lord John. It's just an odd way to leave it unless it's coming back. Regardless of all that, just not having it come up on conversation is odd. 

Which, really, inevitably when Claire gets in trouble the next time, I could easily see her telling Jamie to find Lord John and get the marriage license. 

Yorktown is in 1781. I don't know what year it is now on the show now or how far past the Revolution they're going. 

I actually remember the 200 year old baby prophecy! Totally forgot it was on Jamaica though. 

Jamie is actually the 200 year old baby because he doesn't die and will be King of Scotland. 

Besides knowing who won in the end, I don't know the details of these battles. It's been 50 years since I studied the period.

I guess Jamie was free to quit but given how many times he was pushed into service, I didn't realize he could tell them to take this job and shove it.

Claire has been roaming Scotland and the early Americas for a long time. Peeing in a bedside bucket would not bother her in the least.  And after that fake bit of shyness, she and Jamie talk about sex when she hasn't washed her hiney or hands. 

I don't know how long after the initial surgery this scene was depicted, but she's been bed panning it for a while.

[DoctorAtomic]

45 minutes ago, Iguessnot said:

Sorry, I was typing on a MacBook Air and this forum nearly kills it with all the ads.

Same on the phone when the video pops up in the corner. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, Iguessnot said:

I don't know how long after the initial surgery this scene was depicted, but she's been bed panning it for a while.

There was a tag of "One Week Later" 

[mythoughtis]

On 1/21/2025 at 5:40 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

He doesn't die ever. That's not a ghost. It's really him. 

Out of curiosity - what would be the point of him coming to the future just before Claire goes to the past - is gone for 3 years - and spends  the next 20 with Frank?  While Jamie wanders around mid 20th century Scotland? Looking like he did as a young man?  

Edited Thursday at 02:51 AM by mythoughtis
Spelling

[DoctorAtomic]

Free love?

[oceanblue]

Well maybe Jamie finally decides to try time travel and he thinks about Claire and winds up in 1945?  and wants to see her with Frank because he's never seen Frank and he has to wonder if he broke up a happy marriage?  Just spitballing here.   If he's a ghost why would he visit that time to say goodbye to Claire?  She wouldn't even recognize him

[Haleth]

Jamie would be more likely to beat up Frank as he did John for sleeping with his wife. Geez, get over it, man!

[DoctorAtomic]

Maybe Jamie was the guy that tried to mug Frank. 

[AheadofStraight]

Didn't Jamie touch the stones and nothing happened, plus he couldn't hear them either? It seems like it would be a major change in established canon if he starts time traveling?

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm not saying he goes through the stones. Just that he doesn't die. 

 

[Shermie]

On 1/20/2025 at 1:31 PM, taanja said:

On 1/20/2025 at 1:15 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

I guess we're not going anywhere with Lord John and Claire still actually being married?

Yeah. I guess there are no laws or anything yet about bigamy?

There were actual witnesses to Claire and Lord John's wedding and then -- poof! it was like all the characters conveniently forgot.

Jaime asks - are we still married? Claire says - how can we NOT be?

Then Lord John calls Claire -  Mrs. Fraser (reiterating that she is not Lady Grey) and well... I guess that's that.

I guess all one had to do was declare -- "We are married!" or "We are no longer married!" and just by saying it out loud - that made it so????

Weird.

 

Well, no. Claire and Lord John’s marriage is invalid because Jamie is still alive. She thought she was widowed so she remarried, dead hubby isn’t dead so he’s still the hubby. Second marriage isn’t legal.

I mean, this episode and this show do a lot of weird, over-dramatic things, but the marriage question is pretty straightforward.

[oceanblue]

Jamie can't hear or feel the stones but if I were him and my whole family could do it I'd try a bit harder.   He walks up to the stones with Claire more than once and kinda shrugs guess I can't.   

[taanja]

19 hours ago, Shermie said:

Well, no. Claire and Lord John’s marriage is invalid because Jamie is still alive. She thought she was widowed so she remarried, dead hubby isn’t dead so he’s still the hubby. Second marriage isn’t legal.

I mean, this episode and this show do a lot of weird, over-dramatic things, but the marriage question is pretty straightforward.

When Claire came back (from the dead) after 20 years and Jaime was married to Leery -- they had a formal dissolution to their marriage -- Jaime even had to pay 'alimony' to Leery.

So it just seemed weird that this time everyone just shrugged and pretended the marriage never happened.

[AZChristian]

10 minutes ago, taanja said:

When Claire came back (from the dead) after 20 years and Jaime was married to Leery -- they had a formal dissolution to their marriage -- Jaime even had to pay 'alimony' to Leery.

So it just seemed weird that this time everyone just shrugged and pretended the marriage never happened.

Well, Claire was "dead" for 20 years.  Jamie was "dead" for about 20 days.  That may have made a difference. 

[mustbeme]

The length of the marriage and where they were married would have a whole lot to do with it....Scottland in a Catholic church with strict marriage laws and 10??? years of marriage...VS  The wilderness, with few actual laws during a time war and it only last 2ish weeks.  And Leery fought to keep her marriage legal.....Lord John agreed that they were no longer married.

[ctmd]

I think the real issue between Jamie and John is not that John slept with Claire, but he declared his love for Jamie. As accepting and "woke" as Jamie is, he's still living in the 1700s, and he's also still a rape victim that had an ejaculation while being raped. During the argument about John sleeping with Claire, it was after John said "we were both sleeping with YOU" that Jamie punched his eye out of its socket. There was something about THAT that put Jamie over the edge. He could accept John being gay, and probably was fine getting little favors because he knew John had affection for him, but then John also slept with Claire, a woman, (and let's face it- bisexual men are barely accepted in straight or gay communities NOW), AND alluded to having sex with Jamie (and technically without his consent, although it wasn't actual sex bc Jamie wasn't actually there). Psychologically, it was just too much for Jamie to handle, on top of the fact that Claire willingly slept with his friend. Jamie's duty is to his wife, and he just didn't have enough brain energy to give beyond forgiving her. 

[oceanblue]

CMTD that is an excellent description of what I also saw play out.   Lord John has declared his feelings for Jamie in the past but been totally respectful of the fact that it's not reciprocated and I love that they built a real friendship anyway, even, in a way sharing a child.   The heightened emotions of Jamie coming to Philadelphia, finding out that Claire had thought him dead and immediately remarried and then that she and his best friend had consumated that marriage -that's a lot for anyone and yeah, John's outburst put him over the edge.   

[DoctorAtomic]

11 hours ago, oceanblue said:

The heightened emotions of Jamie coming to Philadelphia, finding out that Claire had thought him dead and immediately remarried and then that she and his best friend had consumated that marriage

I think much of our discussion is about whether Jamie knew Claire actually married Lord John. In the scene where Jamie punched him out, I don't think he said that part. 

[surfgirl]

16 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I think much of our discussion is about whether Jamie knew Claire actually married Lord John. In the scene where Jamie punched him out, I don't think he said that part. 

I also do not recall either LJG or Claire telling Jamie that LJG had to marry her tonsave her life because she was found to be a spy. I mean, hiw hard is it to say that? Make it make sense.

[DoctorAtomic]

I do agree with the reason why Jamie punched out Lord John was a whole host of things. I'd add, and I think I said it at the time, Lord John wanted to be punished by Jamie, which is a another deal altogether. 

Would have been kind of hot if they all decided to be poly, but I think there's only so 'woke' Jamie can go. 

[mythoughtis]

15 hours ago, surfgirl said:

I also do not recall either LJG or Claire telling Jamie that LJG had to marry her tonsave her life because she was found to be a spy. I mean, hiw hard is it to say that? Make it make sense.

I think it was alluded to finally in this last episode.  Claire thanks Grey for saving her life.  Jamie gets an odd expression on his face.  However he does not ask Claire to explain. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

16 hours ago, surfgirl said:

I also do not recall either LJG or Claire telling Jamie that LJG had to marry her tonsave her life because she was found to be a spy. I mean, hiw hard is it to say that? Make it make sense.

Because neither Claire or Lord John told Jamie onscreen what led to the hasty wedding. The only reference was Jamie asking Claire if she was still his wife. And she said “What else would I be”  or something like that. Which told me she maaaaybe(?) told Jamie? But all Lord John confessed was that he had had carnal knowledge”  of Jamie’s wife.

24 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

I think it was alluded to finally in this last episode.  Claire thanks Grey for saving her life.  Jamie gets an odd expression on his face.  However he does not ask Claire to explain. 

And I blame ALL of this-at Matthew Roberts’ feet/hands and other writers. Because they all no longer give a shite to tell the story so everyone understands-because he’s busy playing with his new toy-the prequel series.

[Chai]

I went and rewatched the Faith episode. Im trying to figure out who and What Master Raymond is and how Faith could have lived.

Season 2 episode 7 has a lot of “magic” happening with Master Raymond.He does a sleight of hand trick with Clare and again seems to turn a potion deadly as clares necklace turns from white to black.Then after she delivers Faith she suffers from not delivering all the placenta and develops an infection.He heals her infection and the nuns call it a miracle. Mother Superior baptizes Faith and names her so she can be buried on hallow ground. When Clare and Jamie vist Faith’s grave Jamie puts a silver babyspoon with St Andrews name on it on her grave.

St Andrew has preformed miracles of raising a dead child back to life.

So now we have a combination of people alone with Faith that could have restored her to life and then not given her back to her parents? Hence the apology. If they sold her to someone for money , that could be a reason for the apology.(all my own speculation)

Edited 3 hours ago by Chai