S07.16 A Hundred Thousand Angels

[Night Cheese]

I didn't hate this episode as much as, seemingly, the entire internet did. The Faith lives thing is straight out of fanfic, but honestly, I feel like with 10 episodes left, if they can end the show with Faith somehow still being alive and making her way to the Ridge and Jamie and Claire having their whole family there, together, I'd be ok with that ending. Even as I type that, I'm mentally acknowledging just how *truly* fanfic-y it is, but whatever. I guess it's possible that it all gets walked back and explained away in the prequel series. I didn't realize that series was filmed, let alone ready to premiere this year. But I think my 6 months of Starz will be up before it premieres, so I'll have to check the internet for any Faith stuff that comes from it.

Aside from that, I really loved the John/Claire scene. I could watch a whole hour of them just talking. I'm honestly thankful for David Berry and the Outlander directors for helping make a character that I am, at best, indifferent to in the books, to one that I really love on-screen. The girl that played Fanny was a real treat as well. Kudos to the casting director(s) for finding her.

I thought the Jamie/William scene was nicely done and well acted by both. William's identity crisis in the books reads to me as more bratty and petulant than sympathetic, but the actor does a good job with his material. He's still bratty and petulant, but the actor brings something more to the character.

Overall I thought 7B was really strong. I liked MOBY a lot and thought the writers did well to condensing down books 7 and 8 for this season. I'll be back for season 8. 

Here's an article where DG talks about giving the showrunners the Faith lives idea while also subtly crapping on the show and this episode.

 https://parade.com/tv/outlander-season-7-diana-gabaldon-finale-shocker

[jqdeco]

If the writers/producers follow thru with this Faith survived story, that will mean all 3 of Jaime’s children were raised by other men. I find that very sad and horrendous, soap opera storytelling. Truly a jump the shark moment.

[Cdh20]

5 hours ago, Night Cheese said:

I didn't hate this episode as much as, seemingly, the entire internet did. The Faith lives thing is straight out of fanfic, but honestly, I feel like with 10 episodes left, if they can end the show with Faith somehow still being alive and making her way to the Ridge and Jamie and Claire having their whole family there, together, I'd be ok with that ending. Even as I type that, I'm mentally acknowledging just how *truly* fanfic-y it is, but whatever. I guess it's possible that it all gets walked back and explained away in the prequel series. I didn't realize that series was filmed, let alone ready to premiere this year. But I think my 6 months of Starz will be up before it premieres, so I'll have to check the internet for any Faith stuff that comes from it.

Aside from that, I really loved the John/Claire scene. I could watch a whole hour of them just talking. I'm honestly thankful for David Berry and the Outlander directors for helping make a character that I am, at best, indifferent to in the books, to one that I really love on-screen. The girl that played Fanny was a real treat as well. Kudos to the casting director(s) for finding her.

I thought the Jamie/William scene was nicely done and well acted by both. William's identity crisis in the books reads to me as more bratty and petulant than sympathetic, but the actor does a good job with his material. He's still bratty and petulant, but the actor brings something more to the character.

Overall I thought 7B was really strong. I liked MOBY a lot and thought the writers did well to condensing down books 7 and 8 for this season. I'll be back for season 8. 

Here's an article where DG talks about giving the showrunners the Faith lives idea while also subtly crapping on the show and this episode.

 https://parade.com/tv/outlander-season-7-diana-gabaldon-finale-shocker

I know most people hate Book William so Charles had his work cut out for him! I have enjoyed every bit of his story onscreen, it was pared down perfectly.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

17 hours ago, jqdeco said:

If the writers/producers follow thru with this Faith survived story, that will mean all 3 of Jaime’s children were raised by other men. I find that very sad and horrendous, soap opera storytelling. Truly a jump the shark moment.

Apparently Diana has said that she didn't want to spend time showing Claire and Jamie raising a child because she finds that boring, hence Claire going back through the stones and the time skip.

[taanja]

1 hour ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Apparently Diana has said that she didn't want to spend time showing Claire and Jamie raising a child because she finds that boring, hence Claire going back through the stones and the time skip.

I'm right there with her! 

I came here to read how the whole Faith is alive thing and I am finding out that wasn't in the books? Well color me confused!

[nodorothyparker]

 

1 hour ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Apparently Diana has said that she didn't want to spend time showing Claire and Jamie raising a child because she finds that boring, hence Claire going back through the stones and the time skip.

And yet they end up collecting multiple stray children along the way and spend an inordinate amount of time dealing with the antics of fifty eleven precocious grandchildren and all the assorted drudgery of raising said grandchildren. All the goings on with dirty diapers and breastfeeding and potty training in Fiery Cross alone is enough to nearly break some readers.

The Faith is alive! thing is just an idle musing by Claire in the most recent book after seeing Fanny and Jane's mother's locket, which does have Faith engraved on it. But at least there, there's a sort of basis for her thinking. Roger and Bree have just returned to the ridge with a story about another book-only time traveler they met in 1739 who had miraculous healing powers in his hands. And she's just resurrected a baby they believed was dead with a similar power in her hands that she can't really explain but makes her start thinking about what she'd seen Master Raymond do and her own dead baby and what he might have done there. Even then, it's maybe a chapter or so of what-ifs in a more than 900 page book before conceding how utterly far fetched the whole thing is. A supposed stillbirth remembering a lullaby however many years later to pass on to her own children is a show-only thing.

[mythoughtis]

On 1/18/2025 at 3:38 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

This show is going to crash and burn for its last season, I can just see it. Gabaldon and the writers did not NEED to go to this well and write such nonsense.

Just like normal, screen  adaptations of books always screw something up.  Faith is an example. 
 

In addition. Even if Faith lived, she wouldn’t  remember a song sung to her once as a premature infant long enough to teach it to her daughter. Or are we to assume Faith lived in the far future and just drug her daughters back to the past? 

Edited 23 hours ago by mythoughtis

[areca]

1 hour ago, mythoughtis said:

Or are we to assume Faith lived in the far future and just drug her daughters back to the past? 

Perhaps she learned of her parents and was taking her family to meet them.

[jqdeco]

Finally got to watch the entire episode in one sitting. I liked it better than I thought I would.  I hated the Jane story in the books, but I liked the actress that played her and thought she did a good job. Never had any use for Fanny in the books and same in the show so far. It took until book 9 before I could tolerate William and I don’t see that changing either. 
Rollo’s death was sad but he was an old dog and at least died in his sleep.

I don’t remember in book 2,  but when Faith died, didn’t the nun finally convince Claire to let her take the baby? So Master Raymond either switched babies before Claire saw her or dug up her grave and brought her back to life? And then what? The only way Faith would know that song would be if Raymond taught it to her (after creepily spying on Claire), which would mean he raised her or was a part of her life enough to teach it. And why would he do any of this? This is General Hospital level retconning a story and to much time will be wasted in the final season explaining this nonsense instead of following the book.

[mythoughtis]

It occurred to me just now that Raymond has other things to ask Claire for forgiveness for.  Saving the Comte.   Some of  his other possible descendants - Ezekiel Richardson?  The one who is playing loose with Williams life and threatening Bree… and responsible for what is going to happen to Lord Grey 

Edited 1 hour ago by mythoughtis

[taanja]

3 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

It occurred to me just now that Raymond has other things to ask Claire for forgiveness for.  Saving the Comte.   Some of  her other possible descendants - Ezekiel Richardson?  The one who is playing loose with Williams life and threatening Bree… and responsible for what is going to happen to Lord Grey 

I haven't read the books but I came here to find out if what the show just showed us also happened in the books. and ... I guess not?

I was speculating Claire's real baby got switched for a dead one <<< for what reason I can not fathom --- Master Raymond had some plan? Who knows. maybe he raised the baby -- that way he could teach it that song.

I didn't hate the twist of Faith having lived - but I have NO clue how they (the writers) will make it make sense!

[SassAndSnacks]

Team - I just don't know.  

Maybe I need to watch this one again, even though I don't want to.  So many, "I'm sorry, what?" moments in this one.  In no particular order - 

• Claire is awfully mobile for someone who was shot in the guts days before, underwent surgery with no anesthesia, has no pain killers, and is using a sus script for Roquefort penicillin.  
• I cringed when Claire pissed in the bucket Jamie was holding.  Can't we give this woman SOME dignity? And also the actors.  Do you think they got they got the script and Sam was like "Ok, I'm holding a bucket while Cait faux pisses in it."  Just why? I know, she needed to check for blood.  But there's another way to write this scene, I'm sure of it.  Anyway, this is the least of my gripes, I'm just saying it to say it!
• I need to double-check, but the painting of Ellen showed a woman with dark hair, no?  Also, they should maybe have had Sophie sit for that painting, so that we got the whole Bree Looks Exactly Like Ellen reference a little more.  
• Completely unmoved by Rollo's death.  I'm sorry.  I have nothing against that Good Boy, but I do have major issues with anything Rachel and Ian.  This was another scene with them where I was wondering if I should be invested or not, and I wasn't.  Also, the eyes.  WHY?! (Yelling in my best Nancy Kerrigan)
• I didn't post about the previous episode, but the Battle of Monmouth took place in the summer.  It was outrageously hot.  Thus, Molly Pitcher came to fame.  I know we filmed in Scotland in the winter, but c'mon.  
• Bree...  As always, Bree...
• And finally, shouting in Nancy Kerrigan WHY WHY WHY!!!!!!!!! WHY did we go there with Faith / Fanny.  WTAF?!  I heard Fanny singing the seaside song, and I was like...no, do not do this.  And they freaking did.  In Bees, which is admittedly a giant stinker of a book, they almost where there with this crap, but even Diana, who has little to no restraint for shite, didn't go there.  I hated it.  I can't add anything more than what everyone said.  But I hated it.  We're going to spend the last season clearing this shit up.  I hate freaking fanfic of this show.  I have lots of my own fanfic ideas, this isn't one!  
• PS - William slept with his niece.  Awesome.  We've officially entered VC Andrews territory, only she (and her ghost writers) did it better.

Phew...

I did love some things too.  I promise.

• David Berry has carried the back half of this season for me.  I'm not even a LJG fan, but I find myself strangely attracted to this man.  Is it the eye patch?
• Rik Rankin anyone?  
• I cared absolutely nothing about Buck MacKenzie.  Now I want to lick Oban from that man's whickers. 
• Loathe Geneva, but I loved Jamie telling William something positive about her.  
• I enjoy the flashbacks to a simpler time, when the writing of this show was better.  

I just don't know.  Do I dislike the whole "Faith Lived" schtick more than "Claire Is An Ether Addict?"  It's a battle of worsts there.  Pretty tough to beat "Claire Is An Ether Addict."  

[Ziggy]

1 hour ago, taanja said:

I haven't read the books but I came here to find out if what the show just showed us also happened in the books. and ... I guess not?

I would not go so far as to say that it didn't happen in the books.  What happened in the show is roughly what happened in the books:

1. Fanny does have a locket that has "Faith" inscribed.
2. Faith is Fanny's mother.
3. Claire and Jamie's first child was named Faith.
4. Claire wonders if Fanny's mother is actually her daughter.

All of that was in the books.

Master Raymond does seem to have some powers, so who knows what he might have done.  He said he needed to ask Claire for forgiveness, so it does lead one to wonder whether he knows something about Faith or somehow saved her.

[Night Cheese]

Since there are non-book readers here looking for more book context, I'd add also that the fantastical/magic elements are more prevalent in the books than the show. It's understood that Claire is really some type of "white witch" who just hasn't fully come into her powers yet. Bree and family meet a traveler in 1739 who has powers. Master Raymond used some sort of dark magic to heal Claire (although that one is in the show as well as the books). 

So is it a stretch that Master Raymond took Faith, healed her, and raised her? Not really. Is it straight out of fanfic? Absolutely. There's probably dozens of fanfics with the same exact premise. It's also pretty cruel to steal a baby like that and make a mother think her baby is dead, complete with gravestone. 

There's a lot of mystery still to be revealed about Raymond, St Germain, Fergus, Percy Beauchamp, etc. that I'd rather see explored than bringing Faith back from the dead. I just hope Diana lives long enough to publish whatever she needs to publish in order to tie up all those loose ends. I doubt we see it in the show, but hopefully we see it in print.

[taanja]

13 minutes ago, Night Cheese said:

Since there are non-book readers here looking for more book context, I'd add also that the fantastical/magic elements are more prevalent in the books than the show. It's understood that Claire is really some type of "white witch" who just hasn't fully come into her powers yet. Bree and family meet a traveler in 1739 who has powers. Master Raymond used some sort of dark magic to heal Claire (although that one is in the show as well as the books). 

So is it a stretch that Master Raymond took Faith, healed her, and raised her? Not really. Is it straight out of fanfic? Absolutely. There's probably dozens of fanfics with the same exact premise. It's also pretty cruel to steal a baby like that and make a mother think her baby is dead, complete with gravestone. 

There's a lot of mystery still to be revealed about Raymond, St Germain, Fergus, Percy Beauchamp, etc. that I'd rather see explored than bringing Faith back from the dead. I just hope Diana lives long enough to publish whatever she needs to publish in order to tie up all those loose ends. I doubt we see it in the show, but hopefully we see it in print.

Ok. gotcha! I read somewhere that in the books Claire has some magical powers. I remember Master Raymond healing Claire with lights/touch, but the show has NOT shown Claire having that ability. It also has not (so far anyway) shown any scenes in 1739 with Bree or anyone else having special healing powers.

I don't read fanfic. The baby somehow living seems far fetched/fantastic but it also goes quite nicely with a freaking show whose entire premise is TIME TRAVEL!!!

I am actually OK with this twist. I wondered HOW it happened in the books. And I want it to make -- maybe not logical sense -- but some kind of sense that .. well ... makes sense!

Or it's gonna be like Game of Thrones. Dude never did finish that novel! He let the showrunners write the ending that was kind of sucky. I mean BRAN??????? fucking Bran playing the long game - knowing the whole time he was going to be king!

Sorry, I digress!

[Ziggy]

43 minutes ago, taanja said:

Ok. gotcha! I read somewhere that in the books Claire has some magical powers. I remember Master Raymond healing Claire with lights/touch, but the show has NOT shown Claire having that ability. It also has not (so far anyway) shown any scenes in 1739 with Bree or anyone else having special healing powers.

I don't read fanfic. The baby somehow living seems far fetched/fantastic but it also goes quite nicely with a freaking show whose entire premise is TIME TRAVEL!!!

I am actually OK with this twist. I wondered HOW it happened in the books. And I want it to make -- maybe not logical sense -- but some kind of sense that .. well ... makes sense!

Or it's gonna be like Game of Thrones. Dude never did finish that novel! He let the showrunners write the ending that was kind of sucky. I mean BRAN??????? fucking Bran playing the long game - knowing the whole time he was going to be king!

Sorry, I digress!

One thing the show has shown is the connection between Jem and Mandy.  A MUCH bigger deal of this is made in the books, but they definitely have a connection.

There is a chapter in the books where Bree and a family friend each take one of the kids (Jem and Mandy) and go further and further apart to try and determine how far apart they can be (a mile, several miles, a hundred miles, etc.) and still have the connection.  They do this just before she and the kids go back to find Roger.