S07.12: Carnal Knowledge

[GHScorpiosRule]

Quote

After a heated meeting, Lord John's circumstances take a turn. An extraordinary deed merits an offer from Gen. George Washington.

Edited December 17 by GHScorpiosRule

[Hanahope]

Seems like no one cares where Lord John is and that seems odd to me. Sure Jamie is a bit put out, but geeze guy, LJ saved Claire’s life.  Not that the reason for the marriage has been told yet.  We just have to hear on and on about how the sex occurred. 
 

I don’t really care about William’s adventures with Jane or whoever.  
 

This seemed like a filler episode only serving to put characters in positions.  
 

maybe that’s why no one else is talking.

 

[ch1]

5 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

Seems like no one cares where Lord John is and that seems odd to me. Sure Jamie is a bit put out, but geeze guy, LJ saved Claire’s life.  Not that the reason for the marriage has been told yet.  We just have to hear on and on about how the sex occurred. 
 

I don’t really care about William’s adventures with Jane or whoever.  
 

This seemed like a filler episode only serving to put characters in positions.  
 

maybe that’s why no one else is talking.

 

Yeah, Jaime didn’t seem to care at all that he handed over his reinstated friend to his enemy when Claire told him. 

It’s also gross that it seems like while John is trying to survive they are playing house in his home. I guess it doesn’t matter with the British withdrawing but still gross.

[Haleth]

No one was concerned about John because both he (and Jamie) considered himself a civilian, as such he’d be questioned and released. The problem was the letter he carried that reinstated his commission. An officer could be held for a prisoner exchange. Even worse he was not in uniform so was assumed to be a spy. That’s why Major André was hanged; he was a British officer caught in civilian clothing. 

[BitterApple]

I was totally thrown too. Claire tells Jamie that John has been recommissioned and they're like oh well, let's go have sex on the guy's dining room table?! What the actual heck? Maybe go get him before he's hanged? 

The actors who play Denzel and John look like they could be real life brothers. Very similar facial features and coloring. 

William is being annoying a/f right now, but I'm hoping he doesn't die in the Revolution. I feel like we're being set up for it and I hope I'm wrong. 

 

[FnkyChkn34]

Of course - OF COURSE - we go an entire episode without a "hey, by the way, I was going to be arrested and Lord John saved me by marrying me (just like you did 30 years ago) and that's the only reason I'm here to screw on his dining room table right now..."  

Okay, maybe that last part is unnecessary, but Jamie doesn't even know they are married.  Do we get another whole episode of him overreacting to that news next week?  Yay, stay tuned!  🙄

Edited December 16 by FnkyChkn34
fixed typo

[areca]

This is making me absolutely crazy.  The scene where John is talking to Denny and he says "My wife?  Oh!  Claire isn't my wife any more.  Jamie Fraser isn't dead.  He's the one who hit me."

David Berry is, in those 3 lines, 100% channeling some other actor in some other show/movie, and it's making me crazy.  Who and what is it?  It's a dead ringer of mimicry. Literally exact.  I keep wanting to say it's John Noble in Fringe, but I'm not entirely sure that's right.

Edit:  Ohh...maybe it's Peter Dinklage in GoT.  That feels more right.  Am I crazed?

Edit 2:  OK, it's definitely Dinklage as Tyrion.  Down to the accent and inflection. Are they slated to work on something together?

Edited December 16 by areca

[ferjy]

On 12/14/2024 at 6:26 PM, BitterApple said:

I was totally thrown too. Claire tells Jamie that John has been recommissioned and they're like oh well, let's go have sex on the guy's dining room table?! What the actual heck? Maybe go get him before he's hanged? 

🤣 You have me rolling. Honestly. This whole episode was ridiculous with Jamie whining about Claire sleeping with John. What is he, a teenager? Time for someone to grow up. And a whole episode if it! Got to the point I was wishing he did die on the ship. What a waste. Considering we have only one more season left, this is what they focus on? William is his father’s son alright. I hope we don’t get a full episode of him bawling about being a bastard. Then another episode of John complaining about being abandoned to be hanged. Then yet another one of Claire whining about Jamie overreacting. Have the writers ran out of story? I sure hope subsequent episodes are more interesting. 

 

[tennisgurl]

Having played catch up after getting behind a few episodes, the last few episodes have been a wild ride. So much is happening, and everyone is just LIVING in their feels about all of those happenings! 

Everyone is being so dramatic, which is sort of fair considering how dramatic all of their lives are, but this feels especially high on the drama. Everyone is up to an eleven, especially Jamie, who is not only about to get a case of the vapers, but is also being a huge asshole. Would it kill these people to just take a second and explain things like adults in a complicated situation? Give any of these people who you have known and cared about for decades the benefit of the doubt? 

Thanks for throwing out that bomb and just heading out Jamie, no wonder William is losing his shit. Like father like son. 

[taanja]

15 hours ago, areca said:

Edit:  Ohh...maybe it's Peter Dinklage in GoT.  That feels more right.  Am I crazed?
 

yes! i thought so! I just watched a whole GoT marathon and literally just saw that scene. (Tyrion was talking about Sansa)

Anyway - did NO one tell Jamie that Lord John Married Claire to save her from being arrested? How did Jamie know they were married? (I read the book thread so I know how the book handled it) but the show? I didn't understand why someone didn't tell him what actually happened.

And what the hell happened with Washington? Jamie delivered -- what? a letter? and BOOM! Brigadier General James Fraser at your service! I watched that scene a couple times and am still unsure what the hell happened.

I don't really care about William and his pain but the woman he met in the brothel-- Arabella/Jane -- I wonder if she going to be important? The actress made an impression. And maybe if William has someone to focus his attention on other than himself -- he will become a better person.? Because seriously - that was rotten the way he treated Ian and Rachel.

So Jamie punched Lord John in the face -- like brutally!!!!! and then handed him over to the 'enemy' and was like - Eh I'm sure he's fine. Like he had no shits to give for his best friends life? Wow! 

Luckily I read the book thread which helped explain things.  Because the show DID NOT do a good job of that. 

[Haleth]

I don’t think it would matter a bit if Claire or John explained that they were married or why. It was the sex that freaked Jamie out. 

[BitterApple]

5 hours ago, Haleth said:

I don’t think it would matter a bit if Claire or John explained that they were married or why. It was the sex that freaked Jamie out. 

It also didn't help that Lord John framed the sex as a way for both him and Claire to bang Jamie. Ewwww. It would've made more sense to say they were drunk and irrational with grief, and shit happened. 

Does Jamie know John and Claire got married? There was no dialogue, but was the audience to assume it was mentioned in an unseen conversation? 

[DoctorAtomic]

I think this is episode 12, no?

Lord John doesn't beat around the bush. I think I might have led about the marriage to protect Claire from all the spying, and leave it up to Claire what to say about the rest. It's kind of plot nonsense tbh, because they got married first, and that's probably the more pressing issue, legally. Lord John basically said he wanted to get hit, but still. 

Jamie punching him out is fair. Giving Lord John up to the rebels was a jerk move though. There were more of them, but I think he could have made more of an effort. Didn't Jamie outrank the guy? I suppose being a general sure does. 

I'm impressed with how the show let Sam play it. He was upset, and that's fine, but I like the subtlety. I still call nonsense on the plot because Claire being a SPY seems way way more important. 

I wish they didn't have all the camera cuts in the living room. It was big enough for a single shot, like a play. I think that would have been more dramatic. They both brought it though. Way better than I expected. And getting it all done and not dragging it out with brooding. Jamie gonna be steamed about them being married though. 

I was surprised that William asked if Jamie raped his mother. I don't really get what he was ranting at. I mean, I get he's upset. And Jamie is a known rebel. Petulant much? You're a British officer. Stomping around the city like a fool and smacking whores. And you do NOT punch out Young Ian. Plot armor revoked!

I'm not enjoying all the William. The character just isn't compelling enough. How old is he supposed to be?

I mean, if you paid enough for the anal? I'm just saying. Lots of anal talk tonight!

I love that house though. Claire's bedroom alone is gorgeous. 

I didn't see that Dr. Hunter gave Lord John the knife. There's no way this show would be so abjectly daft as to kill Lord John. Jamie being a general now has to factor into it. 

5 hours ago, Haleth said:

I don’t think it would matter a bit if Claire or John explained that they were married or why. It was the sex that freaked Jamie out. 

Actually, I think Jamie would roll his eyes because OF COURSE Claire was a spy while he was gone. Remember when Claire thought she was going to free all the slaves? I do agree the sex would be the more personal issue, but the fact they didn't bring up the marriage at all was ridiculous. I'm just glad that part was tied up in just this episode.

16 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Does Jamie know John and Claire got married?

I don't think he does. He did say, 'are you my wife?', but I don't think that's what he meant. 

To be fair to Jamie, when Claire said Lord John was re commissioned, Jamie did have a 'uh oh' look on his face, but then said, 'Lord John can take care of himself.' 

Was eskimo brothers a thing in the late 1700s? 

[GHScorpiosRule]

18 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I think this is episode 12, no?

D’OH! Right. All fixed!

[Hanahope]

19 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Jamie punching him out is fair. Giving Lord John up to the rebels was a jerk move though. There were more of them, but I think he could have made more of an effort. Didn't Jamie outrank the guy? I suppose being a general sure does. 

i give Jamie a little bit of a pass because he had a letter to deliver to Washington and clearly couldn't bring Lord John with him.  But he should have immediately gone to the camp where they had Lord John and explained things.  I don't think he will forgive himself if something bad happens to Lord John (though somehow I expect LJ will survive).  

[GHScorpiosRule]

19 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I didn't see that Dr. Hunter gave Lord John the knife.

You didn't see it or you didn't expect him to slip it to Lord John? If it's the former, he placed it under the bowl of stew.

[Anothermi]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

You didn't see it or you didn't expect him to slip it to Lord John? If it's the former, he placed it under the bowl of stew.

Thanks for the tip, @GHScorpiosRule

I rewatched that exchange and had to do it more than once, because the bottom of the plate was often out of camera. But at one point Denzel said to LJ "I brought thee a spoon.  The stew is boiling. Be careful."  

Next shot is Denzel handing over the spoon (edited: bowl of spoon facing down) and a tiny flash of LJ separating a scalpel a small distance from under the spoon.  I was looking for a knife shaped object, but I guess a scalpel is as much a knife as a cleaver is. 

This segment is somewhere between 43 min and 44 min into the episode. 

Edited December 17 by Anothermi
clarification

[DoctorAtomic]

4 hours ago, Hanahope said:

But he should have immediately gone to the camp where they had Lord John and explained things. 

He could have had Washington write a letter to remand Lord John to Jamie's custody too. Although, iirc, Jamie thought Lord John was a civilian and he'd be released too. ALTHOUGH, Jamie could have read the damn letter first too and knew it was a recommission.