S07.E11 A Hundredweight of Stones

[GHScorpiosRule]

Claire turns to John Grey for comfort as they process difficult news. Ian and Rachel discuss their love and their future. Brianna confronts an intruder at Lallybroch.

[Ziggy]

This episode was really well done, but I really just wanted to get the story line over with.  I just wanted to skip over the wedding and the drunken night, so I was so glad when they were both done!

The end was very well done, but it was hard not to wish they could have had Jenny.  Her reaction in the book was priceless!!!

Loved seeing Bree's story.  I am looking forward to seeing more of her part of the story with Rob Cameron.

[nodorothyparker]

They're zipping along pretty quickly now but Rachel and Ian are still like watching two near strangers try to sell me on how scintillating it is to watch paint dry.

I'm one who likes the weirdo Claire-Lord John hookup, if mostly for the conversation afterward. Lord John disappears for such long stretches in the main series that you never really get much sense of what his life is really like beyond Jamie Jamie Jamie William Jamie. David Berry hasn't always been given a lot to work with but he was so very solid here and he was achingly good in the carriage scene laying some hard truths on Claire, namely that it's all well and good to think love should conquer all and people should be willing to fight for it but she's never had to come at it as a person who had to love in secret to avoid a criminal or even hanging offense. David Berry has given interviews saying something to the effect that this is where we see that John is more than just Jamie's lapdog, whatever that means, so here's hoping even in this speedreader version of the story we're finally going to see some of the prickly edges of the Jamie-John relationship that the show has mostly sanded off. 

It's never going to not bug a bit how cavalierly everyone has treated the whole William is Jamie's secret son bombshell on the show but for once it led to something that actually made sense: the show obviously couldn't use the book scene reveal as-is with William finally seeing Jamie dead on and realizing hey, we look just like each other, why exactly is that. The actor plausibly looks like the product of Jamie and Geneva but isn't enough of a dead ringer for it. So here it comes about because once again John refers to him as Jamie's son but Jamie has carelessly left the door open for William to overhear. Loved loved loved Claire's big grin at the end because not only is Jamie not dead but after however long of tedious dinner parties, double agents, and playing the dutiful "wife" we've immediately switched gears back to the usual Outlander Danger! and Drama! and even a fake kidnapping for good measure.

Still enjoying Roger and Buck's accidental tripping through the wrong wayback more than I expected but it's starting to feel like a wild good chase. Which is how it ends up mostly feeling on the page too, so maybe that's what they're aiming for.

Edited December 7 by nodorothyparker

[Haleth]

I burst out laughing at Claire’s and John’s expressions the morning after. Awkward!

I feel whiplash at how fast the show is racing through the book, but on the other hand no one believed Jamie was dead so why carry on the farce?

Speaking of farce I hope the Roger in the past storyline is wrapped up soon because it’s getting repetitive and boring. 

[Quickbeam]

Lord John is a favorite character of mine and I love how David Berry plays him. A great episode for the actor and the character. 

[Night Cheese]

I've been a fan of all of the 7b episodes so far, but this one was really great. 

13 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

They're zipping along pretty quickly now but Rachel and Ian are still like watching two near strangers try to sell me on how scintillating it is to watch paint dry.

Truly. I quite liked them in the books and found their relationship really sweet, if somewhat unconventional/unlikely. But here I feel like days/week(s) are going by for Claire, while Ian and Rachel are still having the same "feeling-each-other-out" conversation. Henry Grey has gone from near-death to fully recovered and ready to marry in the time it's taken Ian and Rachel to have an honest conversation with each other.

The Claire and Lord John morning after scene was nice. I always felt a little weird about their drunken night together in the books, but I like the show's Claire and LJ characters (thanks to the actors' portrayals) considerably more than their books counterparts. They made me really feel each's grief over Jamie. And fortunately the sex scene was short. 

I had to go back and read the Henry Grey wiki page to remember if his relationship with Mercy was the same in the books. I guess I didn't remember that she was African American in the books as well. Reading the wiki pages I also realized that they've completely skipped the Dottie Grey character, which is fine, but they've also skipped the Percy Beauchamp storyline as well. I guess they can always bring him in later if they spin off Lord John and cover the LJ novellas. Either way, it made me realize we haven't seen Fergus (or Marsali) in years, both in the shows timeline and in real life. That made me sad.

13 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

It's never going to not bug a bit how cavalierly everyone has treated the whole William is Jamie's secret son bombshell on the show but for once it led to something that actually made sense: the show obviously couldn't use the book scene reveal as-is with William finally seeing Jamie dead on and realizing hey, we look just like each other, why exactly is that. The actor plausibly looks like the product of Jamie and Geneva but isn't enough of a dead ringer for it.

Yes, I liked how they handled this as well. William isn't Jamie's brown-haired twin in the series, so this little change here is a much more plausible way to reveal that William is a stinking papist. When "Mac" was at Hellwater and the ladies were remarking how much young William looked like the Groom, I rolled my eyes because that kid did not look like Jamie, nor did a slightly older William visiting the Ridge look like him. So I was glad that they've acknowledged the family resemblance between William, Jamie, and Bree, but leaned away from William learning his patronage from just looking at Jamie dead-on.

Also, I wish we had Jenny there too, even if I wasn't a fan of the new actress. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

On 12/6/2024 at 9:27 PM, nodorothyparker said:

I'm one who likes the weirdo Claire-Lord John hookup, if mostly for the conversation afterward. Lord John disappears for such long stretches in the main series that you never really get much sense of what his life is really like beyond Jamie Jamie Jamie William Jamie. David Berry hasn't always been given a lot to work with but he was so very solid here and he was achingly good in the carriage scene laying some hard truths on Claire, namely that it's all well and good to think love should conquer all and people should be willing to fight for it but she's never had to come at it as a person who had to love in secret to avoid a criminal or even hanging offense.

It’s been so long since I read the buik that I don’t remember just how long it took until Jamie showed up alive. But like others, I’m glad Show didn’t drag it out. Though I still remain confused why Claire still wears Frank’s ring, and why Lord John’s ring is put on Claire’s right finger instead of her left.

But I do seem to recall Claire and Lord John had sex more than once? But whatever. David Berry, for me, makes Lord John so much more likeable. I couldn’t stand buik Lord John. And this is probably going to be next season so I’ll add spoiler tags for my speculation, but  

I hope we don’t have Lord John with the hanging eye, proclaiming his love for Jamie to all and sundry

. Still don’t care about Bree, but good that she cold cocked Rob.

And I can’t remember if Roger ever found his father?

It seems that despite speculation in the non-buik thread, based on the preview for next episode, Jamie does learn Claire married Lord John.

And was Richardson telling Claire the truth about him being a spy or lying to trap her?

[NeenerNeener]

Whoops, wrong thread. Moved to correct one.

Edited December 8 by NeenerNeener

[nodorothyparker]

9 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

It’s been so long since I read the buik that I don’t remember just how long it took until Jamie showed up alive. But like others, I’m glad Show didn’t drag it out. Though I still remain confused why Claire still wears Frank’s ring, and why Lord John’s ring is put on Claire’s right finger instead of her left.

But I do seem to recall Claire and Lord John had sex more than once?

IIRC, Lord John does offer to "comfort" her again at some point afterward, resulting in what may have been an implied handjob written so euphemistically it could have been something or maybe not. But I'm pretty sure their marriage went on for weeks? or maybe longer? Long enough for Claire to be known about Philadelphia as Lady John, long enough for her to develop a real relationship with William as his stepmother to make matters with the two fathers reveal even more confusing, and long enough for her to have moved past the drunken wanting to kill herself phase to mulling taking any number of precious stones she has access to and trying to go back to her own time. The show declaration to Ian that she wants to stay to see the revolution through is a show-only creation. She's definitely considering it on the page to go be with Bree but figuring out the logistics of traveling by herself to the nearest stones she knows of in North Carolina plus the general inertia and stasis she seems stuck in means she hasn't really gotten around to doing much to make it happen before Jamie shows back up alive.

Richardson is more or less telling the truth. He's going to end up being a spy and turncoat to both sides as he doesn't really care about the revolution beyond what he thinks needs to happen to achieve his big secret time traveler plan to change history that he spends so much time monologuing to John about in the most recent book. That the show made a point of having him so baldly tell Claire that much while namedropping Lord John's brother Hal and his unwitting role in the plan makes me think we're going to get some truncated version of that plot as we head into the final episodes even if Gabaldon hasn't written a resolution for it yet.

The preview shot of Lord John in the eye patch and that the next episode is titled Carnal Knowledge, I think, pretty much tells us they're doing at least some of that story bit from the opening of Heart's Blood.

[FnkyChkn34]

I got the impression that maybe only about 2 weeks has passed.  And Jamie's explanation doesn't allow for much more than that.  He said that his original ship had his luggage but left the night before it was supposed to and he didn't make it aboard.  So wouldn't he have just caught the next ship he could have?  I presume that ships probably left weekly or so?  He shouldn't have been that much further behind the time he was supposed to have gotten there.  Even with ocean passages varying in length of time, Claire and John shouldn't have been married for months...

How did Jamie know that they thought he was dead?  Was there some sort of customs or immigration back then that when he disembarked, he gave his name the people were like, "uh... no... you're dead?"  It's not like the Coast Guard radioed all the ships in the area so he knew while he was still sailing. 🙄 (Also who does his acupuncture for him? 😆)

[cardigirl]

On 12/8/2024 at 12:03 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Though I still remain confused why Claire still wears Frank’s ring, and why Lord John’s ring is put on Claire’s right finger instead of her left.

I think wedding rings are worn on the right hand in Europe. In Claire's case, when she married Jamie, she was already wearing Frank's ring on her left hand, so Jamie put it on her right. 

And as to why she still wears Frank's ring, well, she loved him, he was a huge part of her and Brianna's lives, and I think she honors that love by wearing the ring. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 12/6/2024 at 9:27 PM, nodorothyparker said:

David Berry hasn't always been given a lot to work with but he was so very solid here and he was achingly good in the carriage scene laying some hard truths on Claire, namely that it's all well and good to think love should conquer all and people should be willing to fight for it but she's never had to come at it as a person who had to love in secret to avoid a criminal or even hanging offense.

Yes, but ultimately it's Mercy and Henry's decision to make, not John's to protect them from.

On 12/7/2024 at 11:25 AM, Night Cheese said:

Reading the wiki pages I also realized that they've completely skipped the Dottie Grey character, which is fine, but they've also skipped the Percy Beauchamp storyline as well. I guess they can always bring him in later if they spin off Lord John and cover the LJ novellas.

Also, I wish we had Jenny there too, even if I wasn't a fan of the new actress. 

With Dottie absent, I half thought they might try pairing Denzell with John instead when they interacted.

I am a fan of the new actress, and I also wish Jenny were there.

On 12/8/2024 at 12:03 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Still don’t care about Bree, but good that she cold cocked Rob.

I'm glad they didn't put in the part from the book about Rob trying to force Bree (whom I do care about) to have sex with him.

On 12/8/2024 at 10:57 AM, FnkyChkn34 said:

How did Jamie know that they thought he was dead? 

I assume there was talk going around about the sinking of the Euterpe at one or both ports. The next episode just says he heard it happened and that's all.

I enjoyed Claire and John talking in bed, and John highlighting how uncommon it is in his time for married people to speak so openly with each other and get to know each other as people, which is something I like to see couples (and other people) do.

Edited Friday at 04:08 PM by Noneofyourbusiness

[Night Cheese]

3 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

With Dottie absent, I half thought they might try pairing Denzell with John instead when they interacted.

I would *love* that! They do have some really good chemistry, and on-screen Denzell is much more interesting than bookDenzell (imo). I somewhat think it's because the actor is much easier on the eyes than the plain Quaker that I always pictured in the book character. 

[mythoughtis]

There’s a lot that’s going to need to change because Jenny didn’t come to America with Jamie.   I think this will be a major departure from the books 

[Ziggy]

On 12/21/2024 at 5:29 PM, mythoughtis said:

There’s a lot that’s going to need to change because Jenny didn’t come to America with Jamie.   I think this will be a major departure from the books 

Really? I don’t remember Jenny having much of a story. 

It’s been awhile since I read the book, and I’ve only read 7,8&9 one time. There’s not much I remember except major plot points, so I’m honestly very curious 😊.