Chit-Chat: The Feels

[Dimity]

26 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Both were part of the English curriculum at my high school in the 90s (yes, we read books in translation). 

I can't recall offhand if we had any books set during WWI or II on the curriculum in my high school, but I came of age when there was a lot of children's fiction out there set, especially during WWII and many,  if not most, of these books are still in print.  For younger readers I would highly recommend When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit by Judith Kerr.  

[bluegirl147]

16 minutes ago, Dimity said:

So much this.  It's insane the way I hear people trying to minimize the horrors that the Axis powers (let's not leave Japan out here) inflicted on the world.

 

It's scary how so many people have been convinced to have a different view of that war. Same goes for the Civil War.  It's not just southerners anymore who think it was a war of northern agression.

 

[Bastet]

Talk about young people not learning about the Holocaust in school or traditional media (and there not being many survivors left to share their stories), leaving them not just ignorant of history but the ways in which we're repeating it, reminded me of some thoughts I had after watching the documentary #Anne Frank Parallel Stories on Netflix.  It popped up as a recommendation several years ago, and I watch pretty much all (factual) Holocaust films that come my way, plus it features Helen Mirren reading passages from Frank's diary.  But that hashtag gave me pause.  And I was right.  I'll just paste what I posted in the Documentaries thread at the time and highlight the thoughts I was reminded of by this discussion:

But, oh dear, the hashtag is not just annoying in the title; part of the framing is some millennial silently traveling to various key locations in Frank's life and death, always posting photos to social media with painfully over-earnest reflections and hashtags for the world to solemnly nod along with.  Go away, random emo! 

The rest of the film intersperses (along with scholarly commentary providing historical background and drawing parallels between societal attitudes then and now) the thoughts written by Anne while in hiding with the present-day recollections of five Holocaust survivors who were around that same age when they were taken to the camps.  It's powerful testimony from a few of the remaining survivors, especially as they worry the world is already forgetting their stories. 

And while some may find Mirren overly theatrical in some of her readings, especially as juxtaposed with the survivors' accounts of their own adolescent experience, I think it works because she's not speaking as a contemporary looking back, she's speaking as a 14-year-old girl might have sounded in her own head when writing her feelings in real time.

So it's a good watch.  I just really can't stand the hashtag journey stuff (not to mention the fact I can barely make out the text of the social media posts on screen).  That probably means it's meant for a younger audience and - again with the worry this history is being lost at a time when it's so important to remember its lessons - I should just say whatever works. 

[Palimelon]

Quote

The same people lost their minds when they finally realized that Homelander on The Boys is supposed to be Trump. 

Every time a Trump fan who watches the show figures that out, an angel gets their wings.

[Anela]

6 minutes ago, Dimity said:

I can't recall offhand if we had any books set during WWI or II on the curriculum in my high school, but I came of age when there was a lot of children's fiction out there set, especially during WWII and many,  if not most, of these books are still in print.  For younger readers I would highly recommend When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit by Judith Kerr.  

The Book Thief, was one of my favourite books. This is from a review, about the author:

Markus Zusak's parents grew up in Nazi Germany and Austria. He frequently thought of writing about the things his parents had seen during the war. He says he thought about the "importance of words in that time, and what they were able to make people believe and do."

[fairffaxx]

33 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Not about WWII (but WWI), but if anyone wants to learn about the horrors of war I highly suggest All Quiet on the Western Front.  It’s not from the ally side but German.

The first version of the movie was released in 1930, starring Lew Ayres, who said that it inspired him to register as a conscientious objector in WWII.  The movie is based on a 1929 novel by Erich Maria Remarque, who married Charlie Chaplin's ex-wife Paulette Goddard.  Trivia R Us!

[Palimelon]

While I wouldn't recommend it for younger readers, for those a bit older, Maus is an excellent comic book about the Holocaust.

So naturally, the school board of Tennessee banned it.

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Palimelon

[bluegirl147]

5 minutes ago, Anela said:

The Book Thief, was one of my favourite books. This is from a review, about the author:

Markus Zusak's parents grew up in Nazi Germany and Austria. He frequently thought of writing about the things his parents had seen during the war. He says he thought about the "importance of words in that time, and what they were able to make people believe and do."

Words matter.  It's why Trump uses words like animals to describe immigrants.

[PRgal]

This is currently playing on AppleTV for those who have it.

 

 

[dargosmydaddy]

Just chiming in as a high school teacher (English, not history). In my small school, in a purplish town in a blue state, the students definitely learn about WWII and the Holocaust as part of the history curriculum, and there is also a Holocaust and Genocide elective class.

On the literature side of things, the Holocaust is definitely covered... Number the Stars is read in... fifth grade, I think? Night in middle school. I read The Book Thief with my freshmen honors class.

I in no way think that my district is representative of every district in the country... but I don't think it's an outlier, either. I would imagine most high schoolers are taught about World War II and the Holocaust in history class and have probably read at least one book set during it in their school career. Now, how deep the teachers go into it and how much students learn/ retain/ care/ see parallels to the present is a whole different story, but the idea that "it isn't taught anymore" or "there aren't enough books or movies available for people to read/ watch" seems like a huge overstatement.

[peacheslatour]

8 minutes ago, dargosmydaddy said:

Just chiming in as a high school teacher (English, not history). In my small school, in a purplish town in a blue state, the students definitely learn about WWII and the Holocaust as part of the history curriculum, and there is also a Holocaust and Genocide elective class.

On the literature side of things, the Holocaust is definitely covered... Number the Stars is read in... fifth grade, I think? Night in middle school. I read The Book Thief with my freshmen honors class.

I in no way think that my district is representative of every district in the country... but I don't think it's an outlier, either. I would imagine most high schoolers are taught about World War II and the Holocaust in history class and have probably read at least one book set during it in their school career. Now, how deep the teachers go into it and how much students learn/ retain/ care/ see parallels to the present is a whole different story, but the idea that "it isn't taught anymore" or "there aren't enough books or movies available for people to read/ watch" seems like a huge overstatement.

They used to do a very good job teaching about WWII. It wasn't until college that I saw the footage that our GIs took at Auschwitz and Buchenwald . I don't know if they even teach that anymore but they should.

[PRgal]

I am pretty sure kids at my son’s school are educated about the horrors of the Holocaust.  A good number of them are descendants of survivors.  

[bluegirl147]

11 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

They used to do a very good job teaching about WWII. It wasn't until college that I saw the footage that our GIs took at Auschwitz and Buchenwald . I don't know if they even teach that anymore but they should.

I wouldn't trust the right to not attack teaching that next.  I mean you know.  We don't want any budding Nazis here to feel bad.

[Dimity]

2 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

wouldn't trust the right to not attack teaching that next.  I mean you know.  We don't want any budding Nazis here to feel bad.

And    they won't want anyone learning about the Japanese internment camps and making connections.

Edited 2 hours ago by Dimity

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

Talk about young people not learning about the Holocaust in school or traditional media (and there not being many survivors left to share their stories), leaving them not just ignorant of history but the ways in which we're repeating it, reminded me of some thoughts I had after watching the documentary #Anne Frank Parallel Stories on Netflix.  It popped up as a recommendation several years ago, and I watch pretty much all (factual) Holocaust films that come my way, plus it features Helen Mirren reading passages from Frank's diary.  But that hashtag gave me pause.  And I was right.  I'll just paste what I posted in the Documentaries thread at the time and highlight the thoughts I was reminded of by this discussion:

But, oh dear, the hashtag is not just annoying in the title; part of the framing is some millennial silently traveling to various key locations in Frank's life and death, always posting photos to social media with painfully over-earnest reflections and hashtags for the world to solemnly nod along with.  Go away, random emo! 

The rest of the film intersperses (along with scholarly commentary providing historical background and drawing parallels between societal attitudes then and now) the thoughts written by Anne while in hiding with the present-day recollections of five Holocaust survivors who were around that same age when they were taken to the camps.  It's powerful testimony from a few of the remaining survivors, especially as they worry the world is already forgetting their stories. 

And while some may find Mirren overly theatrical in some of her readings, especially as juxtaposed with the survivors' accounts of their own adolescent experience, I think it works because she's not speaking as a contemporary looking back, she's speaking as a 14-year-old girl might have sounded in her own head when writing her feelings in real time.

So it's a good watch.  I just really can't stand the hashtag journey stuff (not to mention the fact I can barely make out the text of the social media posts on screen).  That probably means it's meant for a younger audience and - again with the worry this history is being lost at a time when it's so important to remember its lessons - I should just say whatever works. 

This sounds like a fascinating watch. Even if I likely would wind up agreeing with you on the hashtag element :p. Thanks for the mention. 

I remember reading a book once called, The Customer is (Not) Always Right, in which people who worked in customer service shared stories about dealing with stupid/obnoxious/ridiculous customers*. One bookstore employee had a story where a customer came in and asked if Anne Frank had ever written a sequel to her diary. 

Yep. 

I remember my schools being pretty detailed and thorough when we learned about WW2 in school. I know we watched Schindler's LIst in school when I was younger (and we had to have permission slips signed by our parents to see it), and when I was in high school we read Elie Wisel's Night. 

I also remember us reading first person accounts from those who surrived the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings, and the history around that aspect of the war as well, along with the Japanese internment camps. I feel rather fortunate that my schools were fairly well up to date and detailed in regards to all of those topics. 

As for other topics, regarding the discussion of music from the '60s, I've told this story before somewhere on here, I'm sure, but when I was a teenager and there was all the freaking out about kids listening to Marilyn Manson in the wake of Columbine, my dad remembered a co-worker of his being shocked that he didn't mind me listening to artists like that. Said co-worker was like, "Aren't you worried about Manson being a bad influence on her?" 

My dad was just like, "I grew up listening to Black Sabbath, the Doors, and Led Zeppelin. This is no different."

(The funny thing was that I wasn't even some kind of diehard Marilyn Nanson fan or anything like that. I just liked a couple of his songs here and there. Nowadays I'd feel uncomfortable listening to him, but not because of reasons related to his particular style of music.)

*Would very much recommend that book about customer service, by the way. There's another story in there where a woman tries to return a used toothbrush...and believe it or not, thta's not the weirdest part of that story :p. 

[Bastet]

3 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I remember my schools being pretty detailed and thorough when we learned about WW2 in school.

Same here, but one thing I don't remember if we learned was about the internment of Japanese Americans.  There was an episode of Cold Case where the flashbacks were set in Manzanar, and some viewers posted it was the first time they learned of the camps.  I thought "OMG, imagine that not being taught!" but then realized I don't specifically remember that fact being in a textbook or lecture, and I certainly don't remember discussing it in class.  My mom had a friend who was born in one, so it's something I always knew, but I can't recall if/how it was taught in school.

(Elementary school was where I learned about the Holocaust, and we covered it more in high school.  I took a class on it my first year of college, which is where I learned many of the details, especially about the before.  That's what really got me into documentaries, museums, etc. on the subject.  My mind is boggled - and horrified - by deniers.)

[peacheslatour]

1 minute ago, Bastet said:

Same here, but one thing I don't remember if we learned was about the internment of Japanese Americans.  There was an episode of Cold Case where the flashbacks were set in Manzanar, and some viewers posted it was the first time they learned of the camps.  I thought "OMG, imagine that not being taught!" but then realized I don't specifically remember that fact being in a textbook or lecture, and I certainly don't remember discussing it in class.  My mom had a friend who was born in one, so it's something I always knew, but I can't recall if/how it was taught in school.

(Elementary school was where I learned about the Holocaust, and we covered it more in high school.  I took a class on it my first year of college, which is where I learned many of the details, especially about the before.  That's what really got me into documentaries, museums, etc. on the subject.  My mind is boggled - and horrified - by deniers.)

We learned about the internment camps in Washington State History which was required for every kid in Washington. It hit farmers here really hard. I grew up in Bellevue  and most of the city was rural at one time, with Japanese farmers dominating. One said that as they were being taken from their homes, they would take the train and see their farms from the train as the were moved to Puyallup where the camps were. It may be comforting to think this kind of stuff happened in far away Europe. It happened right here too. I hope we never forget that.

[tearknee]

 

The internment camps were horrible.

 

The Japanese nation-state are the only ones responsible for the firebombing of Tokyo and what happened to Hiroshima etc. Japan were the first country to drop bombs upon Asian cities. When you start a war, you are responsible for everything that follows, including the deaths of your own civilian and military populations.

 

[fairffaxx]

My father grew up in Seattle during the Depression & went to school with kids whose ancestors came to the U.S. from Japan.  His parents & others in their neighborhood took care of the Japanese neighbors' properties when the owners were sent to the camps.  I'm sure that was not uncommon, but I also suspect that some people took advantage of the owners' sudden absences.  What a terrible time!

[Anela]

My grandma used to tell us about the bombing in London, but all I can remember is that she said they would hold hands, and pray.  I wish she’d written it all down.  She died just before my twelfth birthday.