Chit-Chat: The Feels

[Makai]

 

3 minutes ago, Fable said:

Maybe it will be one day, but a lot of people feel angry and betrayed.  I know I do and haven't been in touch with them for the last few days.  I will have to buck up and get over it.  However, I have had these discussions with my family especially for the last 8 years or so, and I cannot bring myself to understand the appeal of man who lies so easily about so much, changes his mind every day or so depending on how the wind blows, enjoys mocking and dehumanizing people. I care about my family and friends, and I don't plan on disowning any of them (unless they start spewing out his disturbing rhetoric.)  However, not going to lie, I'm giving them the side-eye.  

This is where I stand. I am in a red region of a blue state. No one close to me is MAGA but I’m sure a good chunk of them did vote for Trump even though they don’t like him. They mostly fall in the struggling to make ends meet group that bought the lie that Trump will fix the economy. I am massively side-eyeing that all the isms weren’t a dealbreaker, particularly since I am the only one who isn’t white or white passing. I am planning on distancing myself a little bit and am noping out of Thanksgiving this year for my sanity. 

My opinion of my boss probably took the biggest hit. I knew he was a republican but the day of the election he passed on some horribly racist, homophobic and sexist spam crap that forever changed how I view him. 

[Palimelon]

Quote

My opinion of my boss probably took the biggest hit. I knew he was a republican but the day of the election he passed on some horribly racist, homophobic and sexist spam crap that forever changed how I view him. 

But the problem is you! You need to be less woke and sensitive and politically correct and gosh darn it why can't people say what they want, right, Maureen Dowd?

[FilmTVGeek80]

3 hours ago, 27bored said:

This is part of the problem. After awhile, it just starts to less like you're holding him accountable and more like bitterness and resentment. I'll use an example: Kim Kardashian. In 2009, saying she's just popular because she has a fat ass and a sex tape would be a damning indictment. Now, a billion dollars later, saying that's how she got famous would make you sound like a hater. Yes, even if it's still technically true.

And this also comes often results in the whole speck of dust versus a stake dynamic that some people don't want to talk about. I know several women who were all game to hear from Stormy Daniels and any other woman who wanted to accuse Trump of sexual assault who don't even who Tara Reade is. 

So, we shouldn’t speak the truth because it might make us look like a “hater” ? I don’t really care about that if what I’m saying is true.

3 hours ago, 27bored said:

Not to defend Jan 6, but I think Democrats leaning into this was one of the major mistakes they made as far as messaging is concerned.

Full disclosure: I'm a Democrat. I voted for Hillary, Joe, and Kamala. But, I'm also an adult who follows politics and have for a long time. 

In my opinion Trump's supporters had a right to feel a bit...cheated. His whole first term for them was basically two years of Russiagate, six months of an impeachment, and then COVID.

The people who believe the 2020 election was stolen (and I'm not espousing that idea, I'm just saying they exist) didn't get two years of a Special Counsel investigation and see people get subpoenaed and questioned and determine if they lied and all that. They got a press release that said "we looked and we didn't see any significant voter fraud that would've changed the election. Beat it." 

I think part of understanding politics is being able to accept and acknowledge that people's beliefs are real to them even if you don't agree with or take them seriously. And I think there's ample evidence to conclude that while Democrats feel the the party and media have been building this iron-clad case against Trump, to millions of voters all they were doing is eroding whatever credibility they have and wearing on their patience. Every dumb joke or comment Trump says or tweets does not warrant 72-96 hours of TV programming. It just doesn't. 

How were they cheated? I’m not going to use terms that orange hamster came up with. Russia’s interference is real and a continued problem. How were they cheated by impeachments? 45 committed crimes and impeachment is the least he should have suffered. COVID is the only thing not entirely his fault. He didn’t cause it, but his sociopathic and idiotic handling of it is all his fault. Despite all of that, he got a full term, didn’t he? What were they cheated out of?

Saying all they got was a press release is simplifying it a lot. They didn’t get subpoenas and a Special Counsel because you need proof for that. Two lifelong Republicans - including that weasel Barr, who covered for 45’s obstruction in Mueller’s investigation - investigated any non-bat bleep crazy claims and found there was no merit. 45 and his cronies had legal recourse - and used it. They lost almost everything. Even his hand-picked Supreme Court wouldn’t touch his claims. It didn’t give him - or his fanatics - the right to ignore reality and try to take the law into their own hands.

Acknowledging people’s beliefs should not translate to giving them credence when they have no basis in reality. Many of his supporters believe Clinton molested kids in a pizza parlor. Should investigations into Clinton have taken place to appease those people? Many - not all - of his supporters believe Black and Brown people are lawless animals who have no place in this country. Should we treat those beliefs respectfully because otherwise we’ll be called haters or their feelings might get hurt?
 

We disagree in how the media failed. Often some of his insane comments were covered, but they weren’t taken seriously. They normalized it to the point that people hear that he admires Hitler and just shrug their shoulders because is it really that different from Biden mixing up a couple of names? Or Kamala not doing mainstream interviews. Some of his more serious comments and promises were not covered as breathlessly as some of the other more inane stuff. This is why we now have people looking up what his promise of tariffs, tariffs, tariffs means.

[ebk57]

1 minute ago, Palimelon said:

But the problem is you! You need to be less woke and sensitive and politically correct and gosh darn it why can't people say what they want, right, Maureen Dowd?

Oh yeah, I forgot to put forth my very grounded opinion that no one should read Maureen Dowd.  Ever.  She's a clown. 

 

I will now go back to lurking for a while.

[bluegirl147]

13 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

I’ve been wondering the same thing. A lot can happen in two months.

IMO Trump's goal was to stay out of jail.  Even in his first term he didn't really like the actual job of being president.  With Vance as a willing accomplice I can see him opting out of the day to day governing and leaving that to his VP and Musk of course who I fear will be the one actually calling the shots.

[PRgal]

22 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

 

He’s not even from the Appalachian Region. He grew up in wealthy suburbs of Ohio. He used to visit his grandmother in KY during the summers and that experience was apparently so terrifying and horrendous to him that…

He wrote an entire book about the Appalachian region that stereotyped us all as lazy, helpless, drug addicted and violent people. He didn’t write a memoir about his experience visiting his grandmother, he wrote a book that reflected on the Appalachian experience as a whole. Academics and the media have ran with this farce as the true Appalachian experience. Real Appalachians wouldn’t write this kind of book about their own people. It’s an outsider’s stereotypical perspective on a complex region with diverse people and experiences.

He called Trump “America’s Hitler” and then decides to be Trump’s running mate the next election cycle. I guess Hitler’s ok when you’re his right hand man?

Source that he grew up wealthy, please. 

[peacheslatour]

6 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Source that he grew up wealthy, please. 

NPR, The NYT, the Washington Post. Do your own Googling, jeez.

[Palimelon]

JD Vance is no pauper − he’s a classic example of ‘poornography,’ in which the rich try to speak on behalf of the poor.

J.D. Vance’s Stolen Valor: ‘He Puts on Poverty Like You Put on Makeup’.

The Myth that J.D. Vance Bootstrapped His Way to the Top.

[Makai]

24 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

IMO Trump's goal was to stay out of jail.  Even in his first term he didn't really like the actual job of being president.  With Vance as a willing accomplice I can see him opting out of the day to day governing and leaving that to his VP and Musk of course who I fear will be the one actually calling the shots.

It wouldn’t surprise me if that is what it took for the “never Trump guy” to sign-on. Vance has even closer ties to Project 2025 than Trump. 

While we’re on the subject of Musk can we all take moment to acknowledge the absolute hypocrisy of the group who bitched and moaned about the 2020 election being “stolen” for four years but doesn’t give a shit about Musk’s million dollar a day bribe “sweepstakes”.

Edited Saturday at 10:29 PM by Makai

[Palimelon]

Speaking of the Musk, remember how Trump scared all those autoworkers in Michigan about how the Dems were going to destroy their jobs by wanting everyone to get electric cars?

And then Trump hooked up with the guy who owns the world's largest manufacturer of electric cars? What was that guy's name...

[Dimity]

58 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I guess Hitler’s ok when you’re his right hand man?

Hitler's Willing Executioners.  A sobering read but not enough people are taking heed of the lessons of history.

[Dimity]

49 minutes ago, Makai said:

They mostly fall in the struggling to make ends meet group that bought the lie that Trump will fix the economy.

My cousin is like this.  She's no Trumper I'll give her that but, as one example, a few years ago they raised the minimum wage in my province - she who has had to take her fair share of minimum wage jobs in her time and who had at least 2 kids scraping by at that moment - well she went nuts.  Pity the poor businessman who now has to pay his staff more!  Oh the humanity. This despite her not actually personally knowing any businessmen who were going to have to open their wallets a scritch wider.   

[Anela]

The one thing I remember the most about the campaign in 2016, was the “lock her up!” chant, he had going at every rally.  Also, his encouraging supporters to assault protesters.  He said that he would pay the legal fees for at least one who did that. 

I also remember this, when i was sitting at the hospital, where my mum was, for a month before she died. 
 

https://www.c-span.org/video/?412315-1/hillary-clinton-email-investigation-part-1

Edited Saturday at 11:03 PM by Anela

[Browncoat]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

 

He’s not even from the Appalachian Region. He grew up in wealthy suburbs of Ohio. He used to visit his grandmother in KY during the summers and that experience was apparently so terrifying and horrendous to him that…

He wrote an entire book about the Appalachian region that stereotyped us all as lazy, helpless, drug addicted and violent people. He didn’t write a memoir about his experience visiting his grandmother, he wrote a book that reflected on the Appalachian experience as a whole. Academics and the media have ran with this farce as the true Appalachian experience. Real Appalachians wouldn’t write this kind of book about their own people. It’s an outsider’s stereotypical perspective on a complex region with diverse people and experiences.

He called Trump “America’s Hitler” and then decides to be Trump’s running mate the next election cycle. I guess Hitler’s ok when you’re his right hand man?

I read his idiotic book (got it from the library -- no way would I pay for that drivel), and as someone who did, in fact, grow up in the Appalachian region, I was infuriated by the whole thing.  You are 100% correct, @peacheslatour, that no one really from that region would write a book like that.  Vance will almost be worse than the Cheeto.  

[Lisa418722]

15 minutes ago, Browncoat said:

Vance will almost be worse than the Cheeto.  

I think Vance will be worse. As horrible as the orange one is (I like Cheetos so I can't call him that), Vance is a lot younger. We know he wrote the forward for Project 2025.  

I found out today that a family member was upset because her husband voted for Trump. After I got over my shock that she didn't, I got to thinking. She has a severely autistic child (her husband is not her child's father). After years, he is finally in a living situation where he is better, but he will always have to have assistance. Also, she works in education. So maybe she realized what a Trump administration would do to her son and her career.  

Edited Saturday at 11:31 PM by Lisa418722

[Dimity]

1 minute ago, Lisa418722 said:

After years, he is finally in a living situation where he is better, but he will always have to have assistance. Also, she works in education. So maybe she realized what a Trump administration would do to her son and her career.  

They are out there, of course, but I know very few people who work in health care or in education who vote conservative where I live.  I don't know if that holds as true in the US or not but it wouldn't surprise me.  

[Annber03]

29 minutes ago, Anela said:

The one thing I remember the most about the campaign in 2016, was the “lock her up!” chant, he had going at every rally.  Also, his encouraging supporters to assault protesters.  He said that he would pay the legal fees for at least one who did that. 

And yet people are shocked that we're not going to sit by and "wish him luck" as preisdent, or "give him a chance" (to say nothing of the fact that he was already given a chance back in 2016 and totally fucked it up. We know what to expect with him by now, and it's nothing good. Even in 2016, anyone who actually bothered to pay attention to his violent and hateful rhetoric knew his administration was going to be a nightmare. And look at that, we were right). 

Quote

 

I also remember this, when i was sitting at the hospital, where my mum was, for a month before she died. 
 

https://www.c-span.org/video/?412315-1/hillary-clinton-email-investigation-part-1

 

This part of your post also reminds me of the time when Obama was working to get Obamacare implemented, and the GOP kept pushing back on it and going on about "death panels"* and how Obama was going to kill people's grandmas and whatnot. I remember one GOP primary debate in 2011 where the moderator asked the candidates point blank what people who didn't have insurance were supposed to do, and reminding them that they could die without healthcare. 

I then remember a LOT of people in the crowd cheering. CHEERING. At the idea of people dying because they didn't have healthcare. 

And not a single candidate on stage immediately called them out or shut them down. Nor did they really make any sort of critical comments afterward. I think Romney might've made some vague, "It's in poor taste" sort of comment or something. Maybe. That was it. 

And I got to see that debate happening at a time when my mom was out visiting her sister, who had cancer and was in the process of dying from said cancer, because she did not have health insurance and couldn't afford to get the proper care she needed. And my mom had to go through all this with her sister just over a year after my dad died, also from health problems that he wasn't able to get proper treatment for because of lack of health insurance (he had really good insurance through his job, but when he got sick, he lost said job, and thus lost his health insurance).

And yet I'm supposed to sit here and feel bad for Trump supporters who got upset because DeNiro said "Fuck Trump!" or Nancy Pelosi ripping up a sheet of paper when Trump was speaking? Yeah, no. Screw that. 

*Gotta love the irony of a party who once made a big to do about death panels now literally not caring that women will die because of an abortion ban. Also, given all the talk about how the economy and people being able to afford things is soooooo important for Trump supporters, I'd really love for one of them to explain to me how things are going to get any cheaper when people are being forced to have families they can't afford to have. 

[Soapy Goddess]

2 hours ago, Fable said:

Maybe it will be one day, but a lot of people feel angry and betrayed.  I know I do and haven't been in touch with them for the last few days.  I will have to buck up and get over it.  However, I have had these discussions with my family especially for the last 8 years or so, and I cannot bring myself to understand the appeal of man who lies so easily about so much, changes his mind every day or so depending on how the wind blows, enjoys mocking and dehumanizing people. I care about my family and friends, and I don't plan on disowning any of them (unless they start spewing out his disturbing rhetoric.)  However, not going to lie, I'm giving them the side-eye.  

I agree that it's hard not to get overly emotional when you're passionate about something. I have family members too with a different opinion, so I understand where you're coming from. And trust me, I don't necessarily agree with everything that comes out of his mouth.

But by the same token, those who voted for him (3/4 of the country) should be given the same respect and understanding. It works both ways. And everyone has their reason. But again, I realize it's too soon to discuss those reasons. I just know that the only way this country is going to heal is to do just that. 

Edited Saturday at 11:47 PM by Soapy Goddess

[SoMuchTV]

8 minutes ago, Soapy Goddess said:

But by the same token, those who voted for him (3/4 of the country) should be given the same respect and understanding.

Wait, what? I can’t argue against respect and understanding, but where is that 3/4 of the country figure coming from?

[peacheslatour]

There are roughly 334.9 million people in the US. Trump got 74 million. How the hell is that three quarters of the country? Kamala got 70 million. That leaves 190 million people that didn't vote at all.

[Soapy Goddess]

4 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

Wait, what? I can’t argue against respect and understanding, but where is that 3/4 of the country figure coming from?

Google the US election map. The majority of that map is red.

[Makai]

1 hour ago, Soapy Goddess said:

But by the same token, those who voted for him (3/4 of the country) should be given the same respect and understanding.

3/4 of the country? 50.5% of the people whose votes have been counted so far. That’s 30% of registered voters and when you add in those who could register but didn’t  that percentage will go down even farther. That percentage is also likely to continue to decrease as more votes are counted just based on the normal voting trends and how slow California is to count their votes. 

Edited Sunday at 12:51 AM by Makai

[Soapy Goddess]

Just now, Makai said:

3/4 of the country? 50.5% of the people whose votes have been counted so far. That’s 30% of registered voters and when you add in those who could register but don’t that percentage will go down even farther. That percentage is also likely to continue to decrease as more votes are counted just based on the normal voting trends and how slow California is to count their votes. 

Yes, but he's got over 300 in electoral votes. I didn't make up the system.

[Makai]

3 minutes ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Google the US election map. The majority of that map is red.

The election map is horribly misleading. Land doesn’t vote. Google an election map by population density (assuming one has been made yet for this election) and you will get a more accurate representation but that still wouldn’t take into account non-voters. 

[peacheslatour]

3 minutes ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Google the US election map. The majority of that map is red.

Many of those states like N. Dakota, S. Dakota, Wyoming and Montana have such small populations as to be insignificant. What you're seeing is the Electoral College map which counts land instead of voters.

[Soapy Goddess]

[Makai]

On 11/9/2024 at 4:06 PM, Soapy Goddess said:

Yes, but he's got over 300 in electoral votes. I didn't make up the system.

No one is arguing over that. We are just saying that it wrong to say 3/4 of the country voted for him. 

Edited Monday at 04:47 AM by Makai

[Browncoat]

 I like reminding people that so-called Obamacare is based on Romneycare in Massachusetts.

[Soapy Goddess]

Just now, Makai said:

No one is arguing that he one. We are just saying that it wrong to say 3/4 of the country voted for him. 

Okay. 

[SoMuchTV]

7 minutes ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Google the US election map. The majority of that map is red.

Oh, so you mean 3/4 of the country by land mass, not by actual human voters. Got it. 

[Soapy Goddess]

Just now, SoMuchTV said:

Oh, so you mean 3/4 of the country by land mass, not by actual human voters. Got it. 

Apparently that's all that counts.

[Anela]

30 minutes ago, Soapy Goddess said:

I agree that it's hard not to get overly emotional when you're passionate about something. I have family members too with a different opinion, so I understand where you're coming from. And trust me, I don't necessarily agree with everything that comes out of his mouth.

But by the same token, those who voted for him (3/4 of the country) should be given the same respect and understanding. It works both ways. And everyone has their reason. But again, I realize it's too soon to discuss those reasons. I just know that the only way this country is going to heal is to do just that. 

3/4 of the country didn't vote for him. Maybe 25% of the country did. The entire country didn't show up vote. 

Edited Sunday at 12:15 AM by Anela

[Soapy Goddess]

Just now, Anela said:

3/4 of the country didn't vote for him. Maybe 25% of the country did. The entire country didn't vote. 

Fine, but the end result doesn't change. 

[SoMuchTV]

2 minutes ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Apparently that's all that counts.

I really don’t understand that at all. I don’t know what you’re trying to say. Obviously the electoral college can cause a slight skew toward the larger size, lower population states, but I don’t see how that means that land mass is “all that counts”

[Anela]

2 minutes ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Fine, but the end result doesn't change. 

Well, it could, but I doubt it will. there are questions about election day, that aren't conspiracies. Like people who voted all blue, but not for President?

And they're still counting votes in States. 

[peacheslatour]

2 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

I really don’t understand that at all. I don’t know what you’re trying to say. Obviously the electoral college can cause a slight skew toward the larger size, lower population states, but I don’t see how that means that land mass is “all that counts”

I get it. In the end, it is. That's why we need to abolish the Electoral College.

[DanaMB]

On 11/6/2024 at 10:02 PM, Annber03 said:

I feel for anyone who's the lone one out in their family trying to reconcile their loved ones voting for this creep. 

I’ve already told my family I won’t be the only liberal at the table this holiday season again and I’m spending the holidays elsewhere. 

[Soapy Goddess]

1 minute ago, SoMuchTV said:

I really don’t understand that at all. I don’t know what you’re trying to say. Obviously the electoral college can cause a slight skew toward the larger size, lower population states, but I don’t see how that means that land mass is “all that counts”

Here we go again. I post a fact (as I see it) and you all have to dissect every damn word. 

[SoMuchTV]

Just now, peacheslatour said:

I get it. In the end, it is. That's why we need to abolish the Electoral College.

I’m not gonna disagree with that at all, I was just pushing back on the claim that 3/4 of the country voted a certain way. I did see an interesting article about how much of a minority of votes could still win the electoral college. It was in the 20 percents, theoretically. But that’s a discussion for another day. 

[Soapy Goddess]

4 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I get it. In the end, it is. That's why we need to abolish the Electoral College.

YES! And this is the stuff we should be discussing. How we can fix things instead of being at each other's throats.

[Makai]

3 minutes ago, Anela said:

Well, it could, but I doubt it will. there are questions about election day, that aren't conspiracies. Like people who voted all blue, but not for President?

And the purging of voter roles just before the election. The people who never received their ballot. I even saw one person who had her voter registration changed to a different address just before the election. Fortunately, she got it them to switch it back so she could vote and it is being investigated. 

[SoMuchTV]

4 minutes ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Here we go again. I post a fact (as I see it) and you all have to dissect every damn word. 

Taking a breath before I decide whether to respond to that. 

[Anela]

4 minutes ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Here we go again. I post a fact (as I see it) and you all have to dissect every damn word. 

except that land didn't vote. Only 25% of the people voted for him. The majority did not. You're choosing to ignore that. 

4 minutes ago, Soapy Goddess said:

YES! And this is the stuff we should be discussing. How we can fix things instead of being at each other's throats.

Republicans could have insisted on a much better candidate. For one.

[peacheslatour]

2 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

I’m not gonna disagree with that at all, I was just pushing back on the claim that 3/4 of the country voted a certain way. I did see an interesting article about how much of a minority of votes could still win the electoral college. It was in the 20 percents, theoretically. But that’s a discussion for another day. 

I know, the math was off but the point remains. We must get rid of it or we may be screwed forever. The divide between rural vs urban will always be with us. It's not right to give land the same votes as human beings.

[Soapy Goddess]

Just now, Anela said:

except that land didn't vote. Only 25% of the people voted for him. The majority did not. You're choosing to ignore that. 

I acknowledged that in a previous post by saying "fine......"

[Anela]

2 minutes ago, Makai said:

And the purging of voter roles just before the election. The people who never received their ballot. I even saw one person who had her voter registration changed to a different address just before the election. Fortunately, she got it them to switch it back so she could vote and it is being investigated. 

Yes, that's another thing. That happens every election cycle (including the mid-terms), so there are a flurry of posts asking people to check their status. I think I checked three times in the space of a month.

There is supposed to be a period of time in which that isn't allowed to happen. Sixty or ninety days? But they let it go ahead in one of the swing States. 

[Ceindreadh]

8 minutes ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Here we go again. I post a fact (as I see it) and you all have to dissect every damn word. 

You posted a fact that was deliberately misleading because land doesn't vote, people do.  The fact that counts is that many of the red states are of a much lower population density than many of the blue states.

3/4 of the country did not vote for trump because land doesn't vote.  1/4 of the people in the country may have voted for trump but certainly doesn't have the 'support' of 3/4 of the country.

[Soapy Goddess]

5 minutes ago, Anela said:

Republicans could have insisted on a much better candidate. For one.

Yes, but the same could be said for the Dems. I think we all would have been better off if that had happened.

[Anela]

5 minutes ago, Soapy Goddess said:

I acknowledged that in a previous post by saying "fine......"

The land part, but not that 25% of people are supposed to be respected by 75% of the people, after they chose him, and everything about him. 

 

[Soapy Goddess]

3 minutes ago, Ceindreadh said:

You posted a fact that was deliberately misleading because land doesn't vote, people do.  The fact that counts is that many of the red states are of a much lower population density than many of the blue states.

3/4 of the country did not vote for trump because land doesn't vote.  1/4 of the people in the country may have voted for trump but certainly doesn't have the 'support' of 3/4 of the country.

Understood.