S11.E25: Traffic Stops

[Lantern7]

This week: John takes the police to task about pulling people over for minor infractions and sometimes blowing them up way out of proportion. John, being John, digs up an old PSA featuring the cast of Cats reacting to a kid getting run over. I may have seen that when I was a kid. Naturally, the episode ends with modern cat-people frolicking around while John goes after them with a spray bottle.

There wasn’t a huge political factor to the main topic. John made up for it before that by digging into JD Vance. I know John survived 2016, but one has to hope the results from next month’s election do not finish him off.

[Annber03]

That cop talking to Lee and his mom during that traffic stop was such a condescending prick, holy shit. "Why do you have a problem with law enforcment." Gosh, yeah, I wonder..

I really liked John's point about the flaws in the argument that these kinds of stops were what caught Timothy McVeigh, notably that that sort of thing would be a very strong argument for gun control. If police are that worried about their safety during what should be a routine traffic stop, maybe limiting people's acess to guns would help take away some of that concern? Just a thought. 

Also, I mean...these people chose to get into a job that, by its very nature, can be and often is quite dangerous. Yes, one might not expect a typical traffic stop to turn fatal, and it shouldn't, but, again, that is a risk that does come with this job. And that stil happens even with police forces that are armed to the teeth. So I don't really know why this should be a surprise to anyone who becomes a police officer. The officer who stopped that judge didn't seem too worried about him, despite the fact the guy literally got out of his car and advanced on him in a very upset manner. But if a guy just wants to go to work and doesn't want to dea with an officer stopping him for a bullshit reason, he has to hear that officer go off about how his attitude is what gets people like him killed. 

Of course, the two videos made it very clear why the treatment was so vastly different between the two traffic stops, but yeah, racism totally isn't a problem with police forces, noooooo. 

That guy at that conference was frightening. Holy shit, dude. 

As for other topics, I really appreciated John calling out the media going on about how "pleasant" and "civil" the VP debate was. Sure, they weren't at each other's throats, but yeah, none of that negates any of the horrifically awful stuff Vance has been spewing, and the fact he was so calm and civil and cordial during the debate actually made him that much more chilling to me. He knew he had to put on a good face for the public, had to do a whole act, and that's all it was for him, an act. He let his real self show with his answer to the January 6th question, and that should be the main takeaway from that debate, not how "civil" it was. Civility doesn't mean squat if the policies one candidate is supporting are still odious. 

(As for Vance's comment about focusing on the future, that was the thing that got me during his closing statement at the debate. He was like, "We need a change, a new diretction" and then said that Trump needed to be back in the White House. How exactly that represents change and a new direction, I'm not sure, but okay...) 

That Cats PSA was hilariously weird. What the hell :p? Also, I can't say I blame Mika for her feelings about sports...but I'm not as..direct about it as she is, LOL. 

[mariah23]

6 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

That cop talking to Lee and his mom during that traffic stop was such a condescending prick, holy shit. "Why do you have a problem with law enforcment." Gosh, yeah, I wonder..

Ah, the Louisville police department.  Clusterf@&k doesn’t even seem like the appropriate word.

[smittykins]

6 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

John, being John, digs up an old PSA featuring the cast of Cats reacting to a kid getting run over. I may have seen that when I was a kid. Naturally, the episode ends with modern cat-people frolicking around while John goes after them with a spray bottle.

I don’t remember that one, but there was also one where a child was injured/killed because they weren’t in a car seat.

ETA:

 

Edited October 7 by smittykins

[ebk57]

I realize the topic is, as always, important and frustrating and needs to be highlighted so people know - and then still don't do anything... 😠

 

But ... this episode was all about Cats! I will always have a (very) soft spot for that horrible show because it built our house.  So yay Cats!!  I'm still laughing at the PSA and the relatively authentic looking costumes they were wearing at the end. 

[DoctorAtomic]

12 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Also, I mean...these people chose to get into a job that, by its very nature, can be and often is quite dangerous.

Is it though? It's not even in the top 10 most dangerous jobs. I think it's more like John said in that they're looking to give tickets to generate revenue so they're looking for trouble. 

I can't imagine how people hang things from the mirror. That would drive me up the wall. 

'Bad apples' also drives me up the wall because people say it like, 'those people are rare and you can't draw conclusions from only a few people'. No, the entire saying is 'a few bad apples spoil the bunch'. Yes, those people are rare, but their corrupt behavior renders you corrupt by association. It's on you to fix the problem.

My city built a new police station, which is fine. Why not invite citizens to an open house to meet everyone? The fire department does events all the time. 

Maybe you won't be so fired up to shoot someone if you actually know the person you're pulling over.

 

[peeayebee]

32 minutes ago, ebk57 said:

But ... this episode was all about Cats! I will always have a (very) soft spot for that horrible show because it built our house. 

Can you elaborate?

 

12 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Is it though? It's not even in the top 10 most dangerous jobs. I think it's more like John said in that they're looking to give tickets to generate revenue so they're looking for trouble. 

Of course it can be dangerous for law enforcement if the person in the car has a gun and shoots them. It happens, but I'm guessing it doesn't happen that often.

Quote

I can't imagine how people hang things from the mirror. That would drive me up the wall. 

I have a little pirate voodoo doll I got in New Orleans that's supposed to protect travelers. It doesn't distract me. However, I just looked up to see if this is illegal in my state. The law is vague, so an officer COULD say the thing hanging from your mirror obstructs your view.

Quote

 

My city built a new police station, which is fine. Why not invite citizens to an open house to meet everyone? The fire department does events all the time. 

Maybe you won't be so fired up to shoot someone if you actually know the person you're pulling over.

 

Yes. It's like the old way of cops walking the beat. They get to know community members, and community members get to know them.

Lance Wallnau is a scary dude. Unfortunately more and more of them are coming out of the woodwork and becoming normalized.

The guy with the I EAT ASS sticker on his car? While I agree with the 1st Amendment, I really hate seeing cars with profane stuff written on them.

Loved John's line about Walz looking directly at the camera during the debate, "breaking the 4th wall like he was in Abbott Elementary."

[DoctorAtomic]

There were 110 death for officers in the line of duty in 2024, but it doesn't say if any occurred as a result of a traffic stop. I wouldn't say 110 is negligible, but % has to be very low. 

There was over ten times that killings *by* police in 2023. 

[ebk57]

18 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Can you elaborate?

Mr. ebk was a stagehand (and I worked the stage door) at the national touring theatre here in DC.  We got the first national tour of Cats and it was a very elaborate set.  Took a full 2 weeks to put in and about a week to put out after the 7 month run (and it came back 7 more times with a smaller set over the next few years).  Lots of work, kinda large paychecks.  So he likes to say that the show built out house, which he did build a couple of years after that run. 

We love Cats!  Even though isn't a very good show 😄

[Annber03]

2 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Is it though? It's not even in the top 10 most dangerous jobs. I think it's more like John said in that they're looking to give tickets to generate revenue so they're looking for trouble. 

Oh, yeah, that's definitely the reason for these ridiculous traffic stops, and I agree there are jobs that are far more dangerous than this as wel. I just mean tthat danger is an inherent part of being a police officer in general, because while your average traffic stop isn't (or shouldn't be) dangerous, there will be other situations a cop will find themselves in that are actually potentially legitimately dangerous, given some of the crimes they report and attend to and deal with and whatnot. It is something that officers will be aware of to some degree when they train to be an officer, and it's further proof of how they should be trained to properly address those situations to ensure that as few people as possible, be they officers or civilians, are hurt or killed. 

But with the way police forces are being turned into mini military units and the way they're encouraged to treat people they pull over, especially people who aren't white, and things of that sort, yeah, it really shouldn't be all that shocking that that kind of setup attracts recruits who have a thirst for violence and are especially trigger happy and who'll be eager to shoot first and ask questions later. It's tough macho man cosplay for a lot of people who become officers nowadays, and too many innocent people are being hurt and killed because of it. 

2 hours ago, ebk57 said:

Mr. ebk was a stagehand (and I worked the stage door) at the national touring theatre here in DC.  We got the first national tour of Cats and it was a very elaborate set.  Took a full 2 weeks to put in and about a week to put out after the 7 month run (and it came back 7 more times with a smaller set over the next few years).  Lots of work, kinda large paychecks.  So he likes to say that the show built out house, which he did build a couple of years after that run. 

We love Cats!  Even though isn't a very good show 😄

That's a great story :D. I've never seen Cats, but hey, sometimes you just gotta have your silly, cheesy entertainment, right :p? I think everyone has those things they love that can be described that way. 

[iMonrey]

17 hours ago, Annber03 said:

That cop talking to Lee and his mom during that traffic stop was such a condescending prick, holy shit. "Why do you have a problem with law enforcment." Gosh, yeah, I wonder..

I shouldn't even have to preface this by saying there are plenty of good cops who go into law enforcement for the right reasons. The fact is that police work, inherently, attracts a specific personality type. The type that wants to bully people. The very type typified in the example you cited. 

There needs to be more work done to filter out those types. And yet, I feel more and more like it's those types who are running the show more often than not.

[Annber03]

Agreed on all of that. I'm actually watching a show right now about a woman who marries a police officer...who turns out to be super controlling and it's causing stress in the marriage (and it's a true crime story, so it's likely not going to end well for her). Domestic violence is another big problem with law enforcement, again, for the very reasons you note. 

[andromeda331]

I loved John's names for the various cats.

Yeah traffic stops can be dangerous. But in this cases they are not only clearly stopping them for stupid reasons in hopes to find something illegal but admit it. For them being only a few bad apples that seems to be exactly who are being hired. Their not afraid to brag about it to reporters or it being recorded on their body cams. That means they know they don't need to worry about being punished for it.

The captain or whoever that was being questioned about the percentage wasn't bothered that majorty being pulled over were black despite the numbers. Then there's the idiot who Sonya Massey had worked half a dozen departments in a very short period of time. The police chief defending hiring him, either they didn't care or they never bothered to check. 

I didn't realize it was illegal in some places to hang stuff on the mirror. It's really weird. If it's not blocking the view then who cares? I had to do that in high school and at one of my jobs because someone else had the same car I had. If they were worried about that I wish cops in my area would pull over people in the winter who only have a tiny spot on the window cleared of ice and/or snow and same in the back window. That seems more dangerous then hanging somethig on the mirror.

Edited October 8 by andromeda331

[Anela]

On 10/7/2024 at 2:39 PM, ebk57 said:

Mr. ebk was a stagehand (and I worked the stage door) at the national touring theatre here in DC.  We got the first national tour of Cats and it was a very elaborate set.  Took a full 2 weeks to put in and about a week to put out after the 7 month run (and it came back 7 more times with a smaller set over the next few years).  Lots of work, kinda large paychecks.  So he likes to say that the show built out house, which he did build a couple of years after that run. 

We love Cats!  Even though isn't a very good show 😄

I'm watching a streamer right now, who has been singing songs from Cats, recently. :) When someone in her chat complained about her not moving on from something, she said everything she had planned, was cancelled, and she was going to sing every song from Cats, because they'd pissed her off. 😄

[Rlb8031]

On 10/7/2024 at 4:42 PM, Annber03 said:

But with the way police forces are being turned into mini military units and the way they're encouraged to treat people they pull over, especially people who aren't white, and things of that sort, yeah, it really shouldn't be all that shocking that that kind of setup attracts recruits who have a thirst for violence and are especially trigger happy and who'll be eager to shoot first and ask questions later. It's tough macho man cosplay for a lot of people who become officers nowadays, and too many innocent people are being hurt and killed because of it. 

The thing about militarizing the police is that armies at war have clear enemies. You treat every person you encounter with suspicion because you don't know who the "bad guys" are. Policing is supposed to be about protecting a community. In that case you are supposed to know who the residents are, who owns the businesses, the principals at the schools, and the local elected officials that can be called on to assist folks with issues beyond law enforcement. Police believe themselves to be an "army" some of which is the result of good marketing and propaganda pushed out by defense contractors, but that isn't fundamentally what police should be doing. 

It's the thing that frustrates me about "defund the police". It should actually be "police for policing" and activities that are not the primary function of police should be left to (and funded for) subject matter experts - whether animal control, mental health interventions, truancy or social work.

[marina to]

11 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

It's the thing that frustrates me about "defund the police". It should actually be "police for policing" and activities that are not the primary function of police should be left to (and funded for) subject matter experts - whether animal control, mental health interventions, truancy or social work.

My understanding is that is what is meant by defunding the police. Turn over tasks that are better suited to other personnel and leave the police to investigate serious/violent crimes. You won't need so many of them if you go to this model.

[EtheltoTillie]

On 10/7/2024 at 2:39 PM, ebk57 said:

Mr. ebk was a stagehand (and I worked the stage door) at the national touring theatre here in DC.  We got the first national tour of Cats and it was a very elaborate set.  Took a full 2 weeks to put in and about a week to put out after the 7 month run (and it came back 7 more times with a smaller set over the next few years).  Lots of work, kinda large paychecks.  So he likes to say that the show built out house, which he did build a couple of years after that run. 

We love Cats!  Even though isn't a very good show 😄

Oh I’ve never seen Cats and I wouldn’t want to. How did you listen to it over and over?!  I once met someone who had played trumpet in the Broadway orchestra for Cats for years.  I know musicians like to get those steady gigs, but it seems like torture if a bad show. 

[EtheltoTillie]

On 10/7/2024 at 6:15 PM, iMonrey said:

I shouldn't even have to preface this by saying there are plenty of good cops who go into law enforcement for the right reasons. The fact is that police work, inherently, attracts a specific personality type. The type that wants to bully people. The very type typified in the example you cited. 

There needs to be more work done to filter out those types. And yet, I feel more and more like it's those types who are running the show more often than not.

Coming here to look at this thread after I saw today’s horrific news item about the deaf man who was beaten by Arizona police officers for not obeying the orders he couldn’t hear. Apparently they had little or no training on how to deal with deaf people or other disabilities. So the reaction is just escalated where the man posed no threat at all. It’s such a bullying impulse. 

Edited October 16 by EtheltoTillie

[Rlb8031]

10 hours ago, marina to said:

My understanding is that is what is meant by defunding the police. Turn over tasks that are better suited to other personnel and leave the police to investigate serious/violent crimes. You won't need so many of them if you go to this model.

That IS what is meant, but that's not what people hear when they hear "defund the police". That is a horrible slogan because it does not communicate what is actually being proposed. I wish there was a decent marketing person in the room when that particular slogan came up.

[EtheltoTillie]

3 minutes ago, Rlb8031 said:

That IS what is meant, but that's not what people hear when they hear "defund the police". That is a horrible slogan because it does not communicate what is actually being proposed. I wish there was a decent marketing person in the room when that particular slogan came up.

Well, there are many people who believe that defund the police means have no policing. That policing is an evil outgrowth of slave trade only. I know some very radical people who believe that there should be no police at all. 

[ebk57]

8 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Oh I’ve never seen Cats and I wouldn’t want to. How did you listen to it over and over?!  I once met someone who had played trumpet in the Broadway orchestra for Cats for years.  I know musicians like to get those steady gigs, but it seems like torture if a bad show. 

Mr. ebk had to deal with that more than I did since he was on the fly floor.  I was out in the stage door office and could - and did! - turn the monitor off so I didn't have to listen.  But after 7 months, it just seeps in by osmosis, and one does get used to it and can mostly tune it out.  Or something like that. I've managed to forget most of it.  Only took 30+ years 😄

Edited October 16 by ebk57

[DoctorAtomic]

10 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

I wish there was a decent marketing person in the room when that particular slogan came up.

It seems like one side has horrid messaging on real issues while the other side has brilliant messaging on misinformation. 

Demilitarize the police would be better than defund.