The Fantastic Four (2025)

[baldryanr]

13 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I wasn't blown away but, also wasn't turned off. I can say I'm intrigued by the whole retro 60s look but, it also feels like a not real 60s. I don't know if I'm making any sense.  

Why would it feel like the real 60s when that was never the goal?  The official synopsis explicitly states it's "Set against the vibrant backdrop of a 1960s-inspired, retro-futuristic world,"  It's like those old world's fairs showcasing a city of the future.

[shrewd.buddha]

13 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I can say I'm intrigued by the whole retro 60s look but, it also feels like a not real 60s. I don't know if I'm making any sense.

For me, it was the hairstyles that felt off.  Susan Storm doesn't have a 60's style cut and the color is a weird type of streaked platinum white (in some scenes). And Pedro couldn't be bothered to shave off his mustache -- kind of like Keanu Reeves and his beard.
They may be going for something - but it also comes off as a little lazy or non-committal to the era.

[Morrigan2575]

5 hours ago, baldryanr said:

Why would it feel like the real 60s when that was never the goal?  The official synopsis explicitly states it's "Set against the vibrant backdrop of a 1960s-inspired, retro-futuristic world,"  It's like those old world's fairs showcasing a city of the future.

I never read the synopsis all i heard was it was set in the 60s and then saw the trailer. 

And yes, that's exactly what it looked like, those old cartoons about houses/cars etc in the future that just never matched what actually developed. 

 

[iarwain]

6 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

They may be going for something - but it also comes off as a little lazy or non-committal to the era.

It's not our 1960s.  Reportedly, it is a different universe in the '60s, but in their universe they never went through the dark ages.  So it's a more futuristic version of the '60s.  So there's no reason to think they have to stick to strictly '60s hairstyles.  Also, the FF is supposedly from the MCU's 616 universe, so that might affect their choices too.

[tv echo]

Fandango's Most Anticipated Summer Movies Of 2025
Fandango Staff   March 25, 2025
https://www.fandango.com/movie-news/fandangos-most-anticipated-summer-movies-of-2025-755233 

Quote

What movie are you most excited to see this summer?

That’s one of the questions we asked more than 5,000 participants in Fandango’s 2025 Moviegoing Trends and Insights Study. We also asked about their ticketing habits, premium formats, loyalty programs, and more -- painting a picture of what’s to come for the movie industry.

Edited March 26 by tv echo

[tv echo]

CinemaCon 2025: Every New Walt Disney Studios Announcement
By DF Writers   April 3, 2025
https://discussingfilm.net/2025/04/03/cinemacon-2025-disney-marvel-avatar/ 

Quote

The Fantastic Four: The First Steps

Release Date: July 25, 2025
Directed by Matt Shakman
Screenplay by Peter Cameron, Josh Friedman, Jeff Kaplan, Eric Pearson, & Ian Springer.
Based on the comics by Jack Kirby & Stan Lee. 
Produced by Kevin Feige,& Mitchell Bell. 
Main Cast: Pedro Pascal, Vanessa Kirby, Joseph Quinn, Ebon Moss-Bacharch, Paul Walter Hauser, Julia Garner, & Ralph Ineson.

Exclusive Footage Description: Kevin Feige treated CinemaCon 2025 attendees with brand-new footage of The Fantastic Four: The First Steps. The footage opens with our titular family/superhero group being brought onto a talk show, it is established that the Fantastic Four have been around for a good while in this alternate universe of the MCU and are beloved by their society. Sue Storm (Vanessa Kirby) and Reed Richards (Pedro Pascal) arrive late to dinner with Johnny Storm (Joseph Quinn) and Ben Grimm (Ebon Moss-Bacharach), but to make up for it, she announces that she is pregnant. Johnny congratulates the couple, saying Sue will make a great mom and joking that Reed has some work to do. 

Things seem to be going well in this dimension until the Silver Surfer (Julia Garner) comes to Earth and warns the Fantastic Four that their world has been marked for imminent destruction. The shadow of Galactus is shown looming over New York, and the Silver Surfer tells our heroes they are in a race against time to save Earth from destruction. A civilian asks Reed Richards if they are going to be okay, to which he answers, “I don’t know.” We see him consumed by his research, burdened by their heroic responsibilities.

Sue and Reed make a promise for the future of their child, and we are shown Reed giving a speech and telling the public that the Fantastic Four will protect them. The trailer ends with a shot of the Silver Surfer riding on the iconic board away from the burning flames of an explosion. 

Thunderbolts, Avatar: Fire And Ash, Fantastic Four: First Steps And More At CinemaCon 2025's Walt Disney Studios Panel - Live Blog
By Jeff McCobb
https://www.cinemablend.com/movies/live/thunderbolts-and-more-at-cinemacon-2025s-walt-disney-studios-panel-live-blog 

Quote

April 3, 2025 at 6:58 PM
Kevin Feige joined us via video to introduce a new trailer for The Fantastic Four: First Steps! Vanessa Kirby's Sue Storm informs the crew that she and Pedro Pascal's Reed Richards are having a baby. Joseph Quinn's Johnny Storm tells Sue that she'll be the best mom ever, but hilariously tells Reed that he doesn't have the same faith in his abilities as a dad.

It seems that The Fantastic Four are in a pretty good place, as the whole world loves them and praises the astronauts as heroes. The crowd erupted as Julia Garner's Silver Surfer appeared on screen! It's really the only way to do the character in live-action, with the look being detailed and textured, not the smooth cartoonish version of the character we've seen in the past. We quickly have to move past how awesome she looks as she informs the crew that Earth has been targeted for destruction. See it July 25!

 

Edited April 4 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Long article, but worth reading....

Welcome to the (retro)future: Inside the Fantastic Four's 'first steps' into the MCU
"The Fantastic Four: First Steps" stars Pedro Pascal, Vanessa Kirby, Joseph Quinn, and Ebon Moss-Bachrach, and director Matt Shakman reveal how this movie is different from what you've seen before.
By Christian Holub   April 10, 2025
https://ew.com/the-fantastic-four-first-steps-mcu-plot-character-details-cover-story-11712063 

Edited April 11 by tv echo

[Fool to cry]

 

[BetterButter]

[MadyGirl1987]

Looks good to me. I’m interested in how they seem to imply Galactus was drawn to Earth by the 4’s voyage to space. Is that something from the comics?

[Shannon L.]

This looks really good. 

[AimingforYoko]

This is strictly spec, I'm unspoiled, but I don't think they're gonna beat Galactus. 

[MadyGirl1987]

5 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

This is strictly spec, I'm unspoiled, but I don't think they're gonna beat Galactus. 

I was thinking that as well. It would be the perfect reason for them to be moved to the main MCU universe.

[iarwain]

On 4/17/2025 at 11:30 AM, MadyGirl1987 said:

Looks good to me. I’m interested in how they seem to imply Galactus was drawn to Earth by the 4’s voyage to space. Is that something from the comics?

No, that's not from the comics - not the main ones, anyway.  Sounds like it might come from Star Trek (The first warp engine was detected by the Vulcans). 

But there was a special series called Fantastic Four:  Life Story where their trip to space might have been noticed by Galactus.  I can't remember for sure, it's been awhile since I read it.  But if so, that's probably where they got the idea.

[iarwain]

I've been watching some YouTube videos, a lot of people are really bent out of shape about the Silver Surfer being gender swapped.  It's spreading like wildfire.  Also Pedro Pascal complaining about the fans for complaining about the female Surfer.  It's probably going to destroy the word of mouth for this movie.

I don't really mind the female Surfer because it is an alternative universe after all.  I would like to see the real Norrin Radd in the rebooted MCU, but that's another story.  But what I do mind is that Disney and Feige insist on making these swaps, when they know damn well fans are going to rebel against it, and quite possibly make the movie a flop.  What's the last Marvel movie that made money?  I've been waiting for years to see a decent Fantastic Four movie, and I don't like that their insistence on jamming politics into it is probably going to kill the box office, and we'll likely never even get to see a sequel.  

On 4/17/2025 at 3:56 PM, AimingforYoko said:

This is strictly spec, I'm unspoiled, but I don't think they're gonna beat Galactus. 

I've heard it rumored both ways.  That they save their Earth, and that they don't.

I think the trailer looks great, by the way.  Love the way the Thing looks, and the Torch.  They've only given us a glimpse of Reed stretching, hope they're not trying to hide it for a reason.

[Fool to cry]

2 hours ago, iarwain said:

I've been watching some YouTube videos, a lot of people are really bent out of shape about the Silver Surfer being gender swapped.  It's spreading like wildfire.  Also Pedro Pascal complaining about the fans for complaining about the female Surfer.  It's probably going to destroy the word of mouth for this movie.

I don't really mind the female Surfer because it is an alternative universe after all.  I would like to see the real Norrin Radd in the rebooted MCU, but that's another story.  But what I do mind is that Disney and Feige insist on making these swaps, when they know damn well fans are going to rebel against it, and quite possibly make the movie a flop.  What's the last Marvel movie that made money?  I've been waiting for years to see a decent Fantastic Four movie, and I don't like that their insistence on jamming politics into it is probably going to kill the box office, and we'll likely never even get to see a sequel.  

Deadpool and Wolverine last year made lots of money. 

I checked the IMDB page and it looks like the Silver Surfer is Shalla-Bal, who was Norrin Radd's girlfriend, so it seems in this timeline she volunteers to be the herald instead of Norrin.  

Edited April 19 by Fool to cry

[MadyGirl1987]

3 hours ago, iarwain said:

I've been watching some YouTube videos, a lot of people are really bent out of shape about the Silver Surfer being gender swapped.  It's spreading like wildfire.  Also Pedro Pascal complaining about the fans for complaining about the female Surfer.  It's probably going to destroy the word of mouth for this movie.

I don't really mind the female Surfer because it is an alternative universe after all.  I would like to see the real Norrin Radd in the rebooted MCU, but that's another story.  But what I do mind is that Disney and Feige insist on making these swaps, when they know damn well fans are going to rebel against it, and quite possibly make the movie a flop.  What's the last Marvel movie that made money?  I've been waiting for years to see a decent Fantastic Four movie, and I don't like that their insistence on jamming politics into it is probably going to kill the box office, and we'll likely never even get to see a sequel.  

Even though I doubt they were trying to make a statement, and most likely trying to distance themselves from what's been done before by going with another surfer, I'm glad they are not bending to the vocal minority. There will always be haters, and trying to avoid potentially controversial choices to appease them or prevent backlash is just a form of censorship. Are you really saying the MCU should avoid using a preestablished woman character just because some people can't handle men not being the center of the movie? Also; the move is hardly hurting for male characters. Sue and the Surfer are the only main characters that are women, that we know of at least.

[iarwain]

2 hours ago, MadyGirl1987 said:

Are you really saying the MCU should avoid using a preestablished woman character just because some people can't handle men not being the center of the movie? 

No, I'm not saying that.  But calling the female Surfer a preestablished woman character is being very generous.  The fact is that Norrin Radd, the established Silver Surfer, has a rich history in comics, and is a popular character with fans in his own right.  It's not that the Surfer is female, it's that they changed the character, surely knowing it was going to make fans angry.  

Now having said that, let me repeat I don't mind the female Surfer.  Especially considering this is an alternate universe.  There is still a chance we get Norrin Radd in the regular MCU.

But I disagree that they should disregard this "vocal minority".  Look what happened to Snow White when Disney tried to inject gender politics, that was like the biggest bomb they ever had.  Politics surrounds us every day, people don't want politics in their movies.  People are also becoming increasingly aware that Disney is pushing politics in their movies, and a lot of people are responding by simply staying home.

[MadyGirl1987]

35 minutes ago, iarwain said:

But I disagree that they should disregard this "vocal minority".  Look what happened to Snow White when Disney tried to inject gender politics, that was like the biggest bomb they ever had. 

I think more people stayed home because it looked bad and more and more people, like me, are sick of the soulless remakes.

[iarwain]

1 hour ago, MadyGirl1987 said:

I think more people stayed home because it looked bad and more and more people, like me, are sick of the soulless remakes.

I don't know, Rachel Zegler's mouth did a pretty good job of sinking it all on her own.  

[baldryanr]

There's always going to be something for a vocal minority of fans to be pissed off about.  Based on the trailers, there's a decent chance that Sue is going to be the true lead of the movie - cue people bitching about how Feige is pushing female empowerment.  It will synergize with the Silver Surfer complaints if she ends up being more prominent than Galactus.

[Tenshinhan]

17 hours ago, iarwain said:

But what I do mind is that Disney

17 hours ago, iarwain said:

their insistence on jamming politics into it

This is what this is really about.  The tired notion that Disney has an "agenda" and wants to push it onto the masses via its stories and characters.

11 hours ago, iarwain said:

But I disagree that they should disregard this "vocal minority".

They should disregard it because it tends to be made up of those who are against anything that might be interpreted as pro-woman or against cultural progress in general.

11 hours ago, iarwain said:

Politics surrounds us every day, people don't want politics in their movies.

Politics and film are inseparable; there's no escaping it just because it's fiction.

Also, is replacing a traditionally male character with a female character what you consider "politics"?

[baldryanr]

This came up in another thread, but there are some characters who pretty much have to be a certain gender/ethnicity because it's a key component of their character.  Steve Rogers has to be a white guy because WW2 America would never have been OK with a black guy (or woman) as the face of their military effort.   Magneto needs to be a Holocaust survivor, so white guy it is.

Plus remember when the Ancient one transformed from an Asian guy to a white woman?  I don't think that caused too much box office trouble.

In terms of serving the story, the Surfer's gender is irrelevant.  Alien who feels guilty about helping Galactus eat planets has nothing to do with whether it's a man or woman.  But then this leads to the sometimes tiring debate about honoring the source material.

Edited April 20 by baldryanr

[shrewd.buddha]

18 hours ago, iarwain said:

Norrin Radd, the established Silver Surfer, has a rich history in comics, and is a popular character with fans in his own right.

The character had solo comic book runs, was always appearing in other comics and was a favorite of high profile comics creators - - so I understand the grumbling by his fans. Grumbling can get fanned into an internet outrage storm when (well intentioned?) progressives appear to sneer and declare that it's perfectly acceptable to ignore those people  -- because any and all criticisms come from incel trolls.
  I am still exhausted from the whole female Ghostbusters thing. You would think the studios would be also. (and that was a decade ago)

The previews look intriguing but also a bit overly cutesy (hopefully not the silly take that Thor: L&T attempted). 
It's all speculative until we see if they can stick the landing on opening weekend.
What struck me most was how haggard Reed and Sue appeared.  Pedro Pascal looked as if he had just walked off the set of "The Last of Us". 

Edited April 20 by shrewd.buddha
grammar

[shrewd.buddha]

If the MCU wanted more females in a Fantastic Four movie they could have used the "When Calls Galactus" comics story with Frankie Raye (Nova) as the female herald.  That was a great storyline. 

[Kel Varnsen]

16 hours ago, baldryanr said:

There's always going to be something for a vocal minority of fans to be pissed off about.  Based on the trailers, there's a decent chance that Sue is going to be the true lead of the movie - cue people bitching about how Feige is pushing female empowerment.  It will synergize with the Silver Surfer complaints if she ends up being more prominent than Galactus.

The whole thing with complaints about changing source material is weird too. Since it only ever seems to come up before a movie comes out or if a movie is bad or does poorly then it is used as a reason for why that happened (usually ignoring bad writing, direction or other much bigger issues). But if the movie does well the people who complained seem to never bring it up again. Like is anyone still mad that the last James Bond was a blonde guy? But there were people who were super upset about that before Casino Royale came out. 

And for Black Panther they changed a bunch of the source material and then cherry picked a bunch more from different storylines. But that movie made $1.3 billion and was really good. So is anyone still angry that Everett K. Ross wasn't some kind of State Department bureaucrat or that the Dora Milaje weren't teenage ceremonial brides of T'Challa? Or that M'Baku wasn't called "Man-Ape"?

Edited April 20 by Kel Varnsen

[iarwain]

21 hours ago, baldryanr said:

There's always going to be something for a vocal minority of fans to be pissed off about. 

I think there are more people who are irritated about this type of thing than you think.  And certainly enough to affect the word of mouth and box office on this movie.

 

13 hours ago, Tenshinhan said:

This is what this is really about.  The tired notion that Disney has an "agenda" and wants to push it onto the masses via its stories and characters.

Vanessa Kirby even stated in her EW interview that they were leaning into gender politics.  It's not a figment of anyone's imagination.

 

5 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

And for Black Panther they changed a bunch of the source material and then cherry picked a bunch more from different storylines. But that movie made $1.3 billion and was really good.

When Marvel made Black Panther, they still had a lot more goodwill to spend than they do now.  People see a pattern of politics and disrespect in their movies, which is easily recognized when it pops up, and they have tired of it.

As I said before, I'm fine with the female Silver Surfer - mainly because it's an alternative universe.  What makes me angry is I really love the Fantastic Four, and they're risking flopping the movie by putting this stuff in there.  Which probably kills the possibility of a sequel.  I think the trailer looks great.  

[Trini]

2 hours ago, iarwain said:

As I said before, I'm fine with the female Silver Surfer - mainly because it's an alternative universe.  What makes me angry is I really love the Fantastic Four, and they're risking flopping the movie by putting this stuff in there.  Which probably kills the possibility of a sequel.  I think the trailer looks great.  

So if it makes money, everything's cool, right?

If it flops, I don't think it's going to be because Marvel/Disney decided to correct a massive gender imbalance.

 

3 hours ago, iarwain said:

Vanessa Kirby even stated in her EW interview that they were leaning into gender politics.  It's not a figment of anyone's imagination.

The context of that quote is that she can't play Sue like they wrote her 60 years ago, with its underlying sexism -- which is true for any movie being made today:

Quote

"If you played an exact '60s Sue today, everyone would think she was a bit of a doormat," Vanessa Kirby says. "So figuring out how to capture the essence of what she represented to each generation, where the gender politics were different, and embody that today, was one of the greatest joys of this."

 

[iarwain]

28 minutes ago, Trini said:

If it flops, I don't think it's going to be because Marvel/Disney decided to correct a massive gender imbalance.

Having three out of four characters be male is a massive gender imbalance?  You realize most superhero fans are male, right?  Is there something wrong with recognizing your core audience?  Besides which, it's not so much about genders, it's about changing characters that are much beloved.  In any case, if the movie flops, I don't think it's because of this particular movie.  It's because Disney has built up a good deal of distrust with their audience.  Especially the superhero audience.

[Trini]

16 minutes ago, iarwain said:

Having three out of four characters be male is a massive gender imbalance? 

Looking at the characters they've highlighted in the marketing so far, it's more like 5 out of 7; so, yes.

18 minutes ago, iarwain said:

You realize most superhero fans are male, right?  Is there something wrong with recognizing your core audience? 

We can quibble about how much is "most", but it's not all, so why should they ignore non-male fans when there's money to be made? (And we don't want this to flop, right?) No, but I think you and Disney/Marvel probably disagree about who this movie's 'core audience' is.

33 minutes ago, iarwain said:

Besides which, it's not so much about genders, it's about changing characters that are much beloved. 

Ah, well, I can see why you'd feel that way.

37 minutes ago, iarwain said:

In any case, if the movie flops, I don't think it's because of this particular movie.  It's because Disney has built up a good deal of distrust with their audience.  Especially the superhero audience.

Again, "the superhero audience" is broader than you think. And it needs to be, to make a profit off these big-budget spectacles.

[iarwain]

4 minutes ago, Trini said:

Again, "the superhero audience" is broader than you think. And it needs to be, to make a profit off these big-budget spectacles.

If this movie makes a profit, and preferably a big profit, no one will be happier than I am.  Because I think the trailer looks great, and I am eager for it to succeed.  Because I am a huge Fantastic Four fan, and I want to see more of them in the future.  But I am concerned that this is going to flop, largely because of Disney's growing reputation of not caring about their fans and injecting politics into their movies.  

[Tenshinhan]

4 hours ago, iarwain said:

I think there are more people who are irritated about this type of thing than you think.  And certainly enough to affect the word of mouth and box office on this movie.

Well, then F the word of mouth.  We're better off without it.  And if the film loses money because of it and doesn't get a sequel, then so be it.  At least the creators stuck to their vision and values instead of letting a certain segment of audiences interfere with their work.

Although, I highly doubt any of this will generate enough steam to make the movie fail at the box office in the first place.  If the movie itself is of good quality, then that will be more than enough.

4 hours ago, iarwain said:

Vanessa Kirby even stated in her EW interview that they were leaning into gender politics.

You must realize that there are different meanings of the word "politics".  I think you might be conflating them all when making your argument.

Aside from that, as a Fantastic Four fan, I'm sure you know that gender politics has always been a part of the stories in one form or another.  Particularly during the John Byrne run of the 1980s, where Sue was front in center in a story arc that saw her female rage reach a boiling point when she confronted her womanhood head on.  The movies aren't doing anything that the comic books haven't.

1 hour ago, iarwain said:

Besides which, it's not so much about genders, it's about changing characters that are much beloved.

Nah, it's totally about genders.  This whole thing about the fans simply wanting to see their beloved favorite characters on screen is just a cover.  Just like saying that audiences just want to go to the movies to be entertained and not see any "politics" is a cover.  There are a certain segment of audiences who will not tolerate even the slightest bit of involvement of anything having to do with race, gender, class, LGBTQ+, and so forth, whether real or imagined.

[Kel Varnsen]

12 hours ago, baldryanr said:

Magneto needs to be a Holocaust survivor, so white guy it is.

I don't know, I am kind of at the point where it's all just made up anyway, it's not like you are disrespecting the memory of a real person. Pick any genocide ever and make Magneto a survivor of that and make it a good story and I would give it a chance. 

2 hours ago, Trini said:

So if it makes money, everything's cool, right?

If it flops, I don't think it's going to be because Marvel/Disney decided to correct a massive gender imbalance.

That is sort of the thing I was trying to mention with a lot of these criticisms and how they only really a are a big deal before the movie then after the fact if the movie is bad. I mean the 2005 Fantastic Four movie wasn't bad because Jessica Alba is Latina. It was bad because it was a poorly made movie. 

 

5 hours ago, iarwain said:

When Marvel made Black Panther, they still had a lot more goodwill to spend than they do now.  People see a pattern of politics and disrespect in their movies, which is easily recognized when it pops up, and they have tired of it.

So are you saying you were upset that M'Baku wasn't called "Man-Ape" because it was some kind of political thing that was disrespectful?

1 hour ago, iarwain said:

Having three out of four characters be male is a massive gender imbalance?  You realize most superhero fans are male, right?  Is there something wrong with recognizing your core audience?  

I am not quite sure I follow this one either. Do you think males have a problem with or don't like seeing women on movie screens? Or that they would rather have movies with mostly men in them? Because I am male and I don't really understand that logic.

Edited April 21 by Kel Varnsen

[iarwain]

12 minutes ago, Tenshinhan said:

Nah, it's totally about genders. 

No, it's about changing characters.  If you were a huge fan of Superman, and the first film adaptation they did of him they made him a woman, you wouldn't like it.  There is also the "Mary Sue" phenomenon, which is simply terrible writing.  People don't like it.  

I get the impression most people on this forum have the attitude of "Yes, Disney, please gender or race swap my favorite characters that I care about, and please inject more politics into your movies.  That would be the best thing ever."  SMH.

I remember when I said it was a mistake to make Galactus a cloud.  And almost every single poster was telling me  "Oh no, Galactus has to be a cloud.  Moviegoers would never accept a giant purple robot.  Modern audiences are too sophisticated for that.  Fox shouldn't care about what the small amount of comic book fans want".  

1 minute ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I am not quite sure I follow this one either. Do you think males have a problem with or don't like seeing women on movie screens? Or that they would rather have movies with mostly men in them? Because I am male and I don't really understand that logic.

Of course men like to see women on screen.  I am saying they don't like to see their favorite characters gender swapped, or race swapped.  I don't want to see Jean Gray turned into a man.  Not that they would ever do that, because that wouldn't serve whatever narrative they think they are serving.  

And again, I myself don't even care that they made this Surfer female.  My only problem is that they are killing off superhero movies with their cavalier attitude toward the diehard fans.  If you please them, they will spread good word of mouth.  I don't like how they changed Ms. Marvel's powers, for example, or how they changed Shang-Chi's ten rings.  Over time these things wear people down and the fans cease to care.  That's what is happening now, but you can deny it all you like.

[Trini]

18 minutes ago, iarwain said:

37 minutes ago, Tenshinhan said:

Nah, it's totally about genders. 

No, it's about changing characters.  If you were a huge fan of Superman, and the first film adaptation they did of him they made him a woman, you wouldn't like it. 

You keep using genderswap examples while you say 'it's not about gender' -- just sayin'.

25 minutes ago, iarwain said:

And again, I myself don't even care that they made this Surfer female.  My only problem is that they are killing off superhero movies with their cavalier attitude toward the diehard fans.  If you please them, they will spread good word of mouth.  I don't like how they changed Ms. Marvel's powers, for example, or how they changed Shang-Chi's ten rings.  Over time these things wear people down and the fans cease to care.  That's what is happening now, but you can deny it all you like.

Again, "the fans" are not a monolith. And "diehard fans" aren't the only ones to be considered. Disney/Marvel is also trying to make new fans. ALL of these comic book characters are going to have changes for the big screen, and yes, some of that some people aren't going to like. I'm with you there. However, I'm guessing most of the audience - who are not 'diehards' - won't notice or care.

[iarwain]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

Again, "the fans" are not a monolith. And "diehard fans" aren't the only ones to be considered. Disney/Marvel is also trying to make new fans. 

They're failing.

[Kel Varnsen]

21 minutes ago, iarwain said:

They're failing.

If all it will take to bring down the multi-billion dollar super hero movie genre, which has been going for decades in its current state, is a woman Silver Surfer or a Namor from Central America, then it's probably time for it to go away. At which point Hollywood should movie onto something else. Maybe they can bring back R rated comedies, or thrillers or decent date movies.

[iarwain]

35 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

If all it will take to bring down the multi-billion dollar super hero movie genre, which has been going for decades in its current state, is a woman Silver Surfer or a Namor from Central America, then it's probably time for it to go away. At which point Hollywood should movie onto something else. 

Or maybe they should respect their fans and the source material, and maybe they can keep going.  Yeah, I don't expect that to happen either.

[Trini]

Back to the movie for a second;

I do like that so far this seems to have a different vibe than previous MCU movies. One thing I'm worried about is the chemistry between the main cast; the trailers haven't sold me on that yet.

[Fool to cry]

In the original story Norrin Radd's Silver Surfer realized that humanity is worth saving and rebelled against Galactus who punished him by trapping him on Earth. Maybe the moviemakers changed the story so that the Surfer doesn't rebel so wouldn't it actually be more respectful to the source material and character that the Surfer not be Norrin Radd?

[Tenshinhan]

5 hours ago, iarwain said:

No, it's about changing characters.

If it were truly about people not liking their favorite characters being changed, then they would simply say so.  Instead, they typically include comments about how Disney has an "agenda" or how they are injecting "politics" into the movies and so on.  That's usually a sign that what they really have a problem with are issues related to race, gender, and society etc.  Most of the negative reaction that I have seen online tends to fall into this category.

5 hours ago, iarwain said:

I don't want to see Jean Gray turned into a man.  Not that they would ever do that, because that wouldn't serve whatever narrative they think they are serving.

Surely you must understand the critical difference between changing a female character into a male and the reverse case.  Can you elaborate on what you mean by your second sentence?  What "narrative", exactly?

[Enigma X]

I really like the second trailer and with each passing day I like it more and more.

i am excited for this one.

[Shannon L.]

Interesting conversation. As a female, who is a huge fan of the MCU, if you had told me the day I walked into Iron Man simply because my 10 year old wanted to see and thought that I would be paying to take a nap (because it was so not a genre I was the least bit interested in), that I would leave excited for the next movie, I'd have told you that you were crazy.  

When I see the angst of the "true" Marvel fans, I thank God that I knew nothing more than:  Marvel was a comic book company and that Spiderman was a superhero (I could sing the theme song, too! lol).  I think it's why I've enjoyed almost every movie that's come out (I say almost, because I was very disappointed in a few of them).  

And, as someone who never saw the previous Fantastic Four movie, and knows nothing much about them, I can't wait for this one. 

Edited April 21 by Shannon L.

[Kel Varnsen]

12 hours ago, iarwain said:

Or maybe they should respect their fans and the source material, and maybe they can keep going.  Yeah, I don't expect that to happen either.

Except we have the example of Spider Man: No Way Home making more money than any other Spider man movie ever, even with the segment of fans who complain that Zendaya playing MJ, and to a lesser degree Jacob Batalon playing Ned Leeds. Makes me think that if the movie is good, those types of changes aren't a big enough issue to make a movie to tank.

Edited April 21 by Kel Varnsen

[ICantDoThatDave]

My take on the gender-swap is that it serves no purpose except to hurt the box office. Consider two groups of people:

A) People who would NOT go see this movie because Silver Surfer is male

B) People who would NOT go see this movie because Silver Surfer is female

I would go so far as to say A=0. Literally no one who was inclined to see this movie would watch that trailer & go "Male Silver Surfer?! I'm out."

But B is definitely non-zero. So it's an easy decision: Don't do B.

[Kel Varnsen]

24 minutes ago, ICantDoThatDave said:

My take on the gender-swap is that it serves no purpose except to hurt the box office. Consider two groups of people:

A) People who would NOT go see this movie because Silver Surfer is male

B) People who would NOT go see this movie because Silver Surfer is female

I would go so far as to say A=0. Literally no one who was inclined to see this movie would watch that trailer & go "Male Silver Surfer?! I'm out."

But B is definitely non-zero. So it's an easy decision: Don't do B.

I don't think it's that simple because all actors have different skill levels and fan bases and would perform a role differently. Julia Garner is a popular, award winning actress that would absolutely bring more than 0 people. Do you honestly think A>B of Silver Surfer is played by Andy Dick or Bill Cosby, just because they are male?

[ICantDoThatDave]

No, but the decision was made before any casting decisions were made.

After deciding if B is a good or bad idea, you'd only then go to:

C) Get a good actor for the role

D) Get a bad actor for the role

At which point the choice of C > D is equally obvious to me.

[Trini]

Whichever version, I think some people are seriously exaggerating Silver Surfer's importance to ticket sales. This movie is not going to live or die based on a side character played by an actor who sixth-billed.

[Shannon L.]

With Pedro Pascal's booming popularity, I wouldn't be surprised if he alone brought in a lot of people who would normally skip the movie. 

[Tenshinhan]

1 hour ago, ICantDoThatDave said:

B) People who would NOT go see this movie because Silver Surfer is female

This number of people is probably so miniscule relative to the overall audience that the studio wouldn't even hesitate.

1 hour ago, ICantDoThatDave said:

My take on the gender-swap is that it serves no purpose except to hurt the box office.

Except that it does serve a purpose.  If it didn't serve a purpose, then the decision would not have been made in the first place.