Lois & Clark - General Discussion

[BkWurm1]

Chuck was pretty great.  It's a real shame there aren't any contenders right now on the rom com/action trope.  It's a good trope.  :D

[Peace 47]

On 12/22/2018 at 11:28 AM, BkWurm1 said:

Did you see the Arrowverse crossover that had Clark and Lois?  They were only in it in the first and last of the three nights but they had a nice little arc.  The episodes would all be on the CW App  

I did see that.  Lois and Clark were definitely very cute in it.

I was reading this thread last week, and there’s a little more love for S3/ S4 than I had, but those seasons do have their good points.  I just felt that the whole “Clark breaks up with Lois for her own good” storyline didn’t have a lot of finesse (I know Lois mentioned that she was, but I didn’t see her taking a ton more risks since she figured out that Clark was Superman).  It felt more like a stalling tactic that then led into Lois’s kidnapping, Lois’s amnesia, New Krypton, etc., rather than an issue that they had to work through organically.  And Clark just flat-out breaking up with Lois instead of maybe, say, having an argument about it where they’re in a bad place at the end of it, might have felt better.

I did like a lot of S3 episodes, though, because they had some great shippy moments in them in between all the stalling.  I did like the Jonathan Frakes/ Genie Francis one because Lois and Clark got to sort their issues out. The virtual reality episode was good, too.  And “Ordinary People” which I know was mentioned upthread is one of my favorites because Lois and Clark are impossibly cute together.  Her teaching him how to start a fire without heat vision is “so fluffy I’m gonna die!” (to quote Despicable Me).

[BkWurm1]

3 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

 It felt more like a stalling tactic that then led into Lois’s kidnapping, Lois’s amnesia, New Krypton, etc., rather than an issue that they had to work through organically.  And Clark just flat-out breaking up with Lois instead of maybe, say, having an argument about it where they’re in a bad place at the end of it, might have felt better.

You are not wrong.  

[Spartan Girl]

Does anyone remember this one episode when Clark and Lois were sitting in the park bummed because they lost the bad guy, and this cute little girl walked up to them and sweetly asked, “Superman, do you need a hug?” And of of course he gave her one. 😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍

It slays me that Dean Cain turned out to be such a douche.

[Featherhat]

On 9/17/2022 at 2:01 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Does anyone remember this one episode when Clark and Lois were sitting in the park bummed because they lost the bad guy, and this cute little girl walked up to them and sweetly asked, “Superman, do you need a hug?” And of of course he gave her one. 😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍

It slays me that Dean Cain turned out to be such a douche.

This one? 

Wanna hug?

It amuses me that I still use this show as an example of writers ship stalling and having no idea how to have the main couple be happy together. 

"At least it's not a kidnapping from a wedding/frog eating clone/amnesia/arranged marriage/invasion arc!" Whenever something ridiculous happens to a couple on a TV show. 

[Trini]

On 9/24/2022 at 9:44 AM, Featherhat said:

It amuses me that I still use this show as an example of writers ship stalling and having no idea how to have the main couple be happy together. 

"At least it's not a kidnapping from a wedding/frog eating clone/amnesia/arranged marriage/invasion arc!" Whenever something ridiculous happens to a couple on a TV show. 

Man, years ago WB actually had the episodes online (for free!) and I started a re-watch, but only got as far as ... middle of Season 3... I think. It was definitely before the wedding/clone stuff. I did watch the show when it originally aired, and I remember there was a clone but I really want to watch again to see if it was as bad as everyone says, LOL! I'll have to see if my local library has the DVDs.

On 9/17/2022 at 9:01 AM, Spartan Girl said:

It slays me that Dean Cain turned out to be such a douche.

UGH. I can separate him from his portrayal of Clark/Superman (he's still one of my favorite versions of the character), but yeah.

[Peace 47]

When news of Leslie Jordan dying last week broke, I thought about how my very first exposure to him was via this show.  He had a guest role in S1, but I best remember him from his S2 role as “Resplendent Man,” who at heart, just loved his mentally ill sister (played by Cindy Williams!).  He was such a charming and funny performer.  😔

On 9/24/2022 at 9:44 AM, Featherhat said:

It amuses me that I still use this show as an example of writers ship stalling and having no idea how to have the main couple be happy together.

The thing is, they had the right idea in the first couple of episodes in S3 in how to continue to do a romantic comedy show with Lois and Clark being together (including L&C taking a superpower-free vacation), until they profoundly lost the plot and ship-stalled all of S3 and into S4.  But after the “an angel officiates their wedding” episode (thanks, I hate it), they did settle down and do some stories in S4 with them happily married that weren’t bad on the relationship front.  But the overall quality was way too uneven and God-weddings are tough to come back from.

Superman & Lois nailed The Dynamic (tm) in their S1, and it was almost everything I ever wanted to see in a live-action Clois established relationship.  See, wishes can come true after 25 years, lol. 

[Trini]

It sucks that Dean Cain is ... problematic; because Superman's anniversary is going on right now, and in the few official montages I've seen, they keep omitting Lois & Clark.  😕

[Affogato]

On 4/18/2023 at 3:45 PM, Trini said:

It sucks that Dean Cain is ... problematic; because Superman's anniversary is going on right now, and in the few official montages I've seen, they keep omitting Lois & Clark.  😕

That kind of happens in my head, too, for the reason you mentioned. It is too bad, because at one point I loved the show.

[DisneyBoy]

On 6/14/2017 at 3:25 PM, BkWurm1 said:

I'd liked Superman before but Lois and Clark was the first time I really loved the character, the first time I felt he really worked as an identifiable guy.  But then, lol, Smallville just ratcheted up the angst and drama and I've been trying to get back to my love for the character since the end of season 8.

Try not to let Smallville, in all its craziness and backpedaling, ruin your love for Lois & Clark.

Heck, I'm trying not to let present day Dean Cain ruin my love for this show. It isn't easy.

On 12/22/2018 at 7:45 PM, Trini said:

There just doesn't seem to be much interest mixing rom-com and action tropes.

Which is too bad because it helps for there to be a counterpoint to the serious earth shattering drama and violence.

When Lois starts season 4 alone and talking to herself, it's funny because we know how neurotic she was before falling for Clark. And its heartbreaking because we know she's barely holding it together with Clark on New Krypton. And we know he's struggling over there without her and in over his head and there's certainly political and military conflict on the horizon. But in the meantime, here's Lois, babbling away to herself...

...and then Clark pops up in her doorway and she ignores him, certain she's imagining things, and then he kisses her and they banter between smooches about what's going on with the Kryptonians, as his counselor watches on awkwardly LOL.

If you cut out the comedy from that, you'd have a painfully dry reunion scene. But because the show could be funny, it made the characters more real, more accessible and added layers to the drama.

I mean, later in that episode, Lois disguises herself as a trashy concubine just to get access to him on the Kryptonian ship, and she can't help but remark on how normal this custom apparently is for them. "I thought this was some advanced society....and look: I'm on a leash!" 🤣

Smallville did blend humor in, but it was often overworked and inconsistent. Lois & Clark had this fun couple at the center of these larger-than-life plots and that was why it was appealing. You knew these two and enjoyed watching them do anything together.

....one lingering question, though: did Dean get Teri to cheat, causing the end of her marriage? Or was the on-screen chemistry alone enough to make her hubby want a divorce?

It's never been clear...

[Thomas Crown]

30 years ago L&C premiered on ABC.   

I really enjoyed the show during its 4 seasons but wished the original show runner  Deborah Joy Levine would have stayed after season 1.  I wasn't a fan of the retooling of the show in mid-season 1 where they shifted the focus away from the L&C romance to a more action oriented show.  I remember the fans complaining and the ratings dropping so they reversed course midway in season 2 and the ratings went back up, but still I would have preferred to see the original creator's vision played out since she certainly would not have given us the frog eating clone storyline! 

I know that TH and DC often get praises for their portrayals of L&C, but John Shea was also great Lex Luther.    

[Featherhat]

On 5/3/2023 at 8:17 AM, DisneyBoy said:

....one lingering question, though: did Dean get Teri to cheat, causing the end of her marriage? Or was the on-screen chemistry alone enough to make her hubby want a divorce?

It's never been clear...

If they did have a thing on set (I have no idea) then it would be less of a case of him "getting" Teri to cheat and more her choosing to. No one can make anyone have an affair unless assault or coercion is involved.

Plenty of on screen couples who have great on screen chemistry have been indifferent to each other or actively disliked each other and the tension comes across as attraction on screen and you'd think an actor's SO would know that. 

I do love this show, they are my definitive L&C. I still say "at least it wasn't as bad as the wedding/frog eating clone/amnesia/New Krypton arc on L&C" about frustrating storylines. Good times! 

I think if DJL hadn't left then Lois wouldn't have found out he's Superman, because I remember watching the DVD extras a long time ago and her saying she had been planning to keep her in the dark. I do like the drama and comedy of her not knowing in the first two seasons but her finding out lead to some great eps as well and opened up new storylines and more for TH to do. Plus "who's asking Clark or Superman?" is one of my favourite scenes/cliffhangers on TV. 

[Trini]

So WB put a bunch of their stuff on Tubi, so I'm finally able to continue my re-watch.

Decided to start with Season 2; it might take me a while to get to the frog-eating, but I'm looking forward to it... kinda - LOL!

I knew they recast Jimmy, but I'd forgotten that Cat Grant was also dropped after Season 1. Looking at it from today's perspective, I wish they'd had a better gender balance in the cast.

And after watching shows like The Flash and Supergirl, it's nice to see an superhero actually do their day job.

[Trini]

Almost 3/4 through Season 2; and okay, maybe the show was slightly cheesier than I remembered. Some episodes more than others. This happenss with female characters/actresses all the time, but I hadn't realized how much they played up the sex appeal of Clark in this. As opposed to him being a "mild-mannered" nerd in most adaptations before this.

And I've really noticed how they had always had Clark (and some other male characters) in these boldly-patterned neckties. I'm sure it's partly a 90's thing; but I grew up in the 90's, and I don't remember that being a specific trend. (But maybe that's just me.)

The whole thing with bringing in Mayson as an alternative love interest for Clark was a good idea, but poorly executed. She wasn't even around enough, and she and Clark were barely together when she was there. They didn't show Clark caring enough about her, I think.

I've never really known much about the BTS of this show, but I wonder what the deal was with Lex Luthor only returning for one episode? At the very least, I think it should have been a two-parter, after building up his return in the first half of the season. Was that all that John Shea was willing to do, for whatever reasons?

Edited January 29 by Trini

[Trini]

Finally finished Season 2, and I'd forgotten that they ended the finale without Lois actually answering Clark's proposal! That was a crazy cliffhanger!

Anyway, I thought that the subplot with Scardino as a love interest for Lois played out WAY better than the one with Mayson. They didn't even try with that one.

I'd mentioned cheesiness before, but actually the episodes near the end of the season weren't so cheesy.

And it's cool to recognize some of the guest actors they had on; Adam West (!!) in that episode where Superman gets sued was great! Probably the closest they got to having Batman on the show.

[Trini]

I'm about a third of the way into Season 3, and yep; this is definitely where Teen Me fell in love with this couple! Lois and Clark are adorable; it sucks when they fight; also adorable when the Kents give relationship advice; they actually talk about their feelings! There's really not many (any?) other shows that actually explore what it means to be a superhero couple.

And again it's been a hoot to see who guest starred on this show -- Jonathan Frakes! Shelley Long!

For various reasons (but mostly budget for sure), they couldn't use Superman's more famous villains from the comics in the show; so it's interesting seeing how they had to find different ways to create threats for Superman.

I know clone shenanigans is coming up later, but the season is good so far.

[Trini]

I'm up to S3, episode 14; so the next set starts the clone arc. Didn't realize it (and the aftermath) took up so much of the rest of the season. And then they start the New Krypton arc as well.

Random notes:

Hey! Cress Williams as a villain! So Black Lightning wasn't his first time in a DC universe! Don't think they fully accomplished it, but you can tell some effort was made to be culturally sensitive (for the 90s at least) in that episode.

I had remembered that there was an episode where Clark admitted that he was a virgin to Lois, and that there was a virtual reality episode that even back then I thought was dumb; however I did not remember they were the same episode! I guess it's good that I'm a "completist", because I was seriously thinking of skipping that one.

Interesting that they had a plot with neo-nazis and it's still relevant today.

For some reason, I thought the show had introduced Lana Lang in Season 1, not season 3. Surprised she was only in one episode.

Edited April 2 by Trini
oops -- I meant season 3

[Trini]

Oh. My. Josh.  I did NOT recall that there was amnesia as well as clones in this arc. I can see how people would be pissed -- I'm pissed right now! This is ridiculous and taking way too long; but it is very comic book-y.

But at least Teri Hatcher had fun playing two new characters? It was cool to see Lex again. One highlight: Clark telling his parents that no sex happened ... in the most G-rated way possible.

I don't know if this is the worst ship-stalling, but it's definitely up there in the top ten.

[sinkwriter]

Oh wow, it's been AGES since I've watched Lois & Clark, but I will never forget that damn clone thing. (Lol) Definitely a frustrating ship-stalling "plot" that drove me nuts. I don't mind waiting, but that idea was bonkers.

[Trini]

Finished Season 3; and I'd say there were more highs than lows, but the lows were really low! The entire amnesia plot was terrible. What was up with that doctor that was trying to steal Lois from Clark??

Also it was clones, amnesia, and then New Krypton back to back. Maybe it would have been more tolerable if they'd skipped the amnesia plot.

So actually, maybe I'd put it in the top five of ship stalls.

-----

On to Season 4; I know I watched it in the 90s, but this season I remember the least.

-----

As a related aside: I recommend My Adventures with Superman for anyone craving some Lois and Clark relationship adorableness. It's a new take on the Superman story, focused on the relationships between the young Clark, Lois, and Jimmy.

[Trini]

Started Season 4; up to episode 4, when Lois & Clark FINALLY have a moment's peace and get to have the honeymoon everyone had been waiting for since at least Season 2! They were just really adorable.

Did the writers/producers ever explain that weird angel(?) wedding?? Sweet, but weird. And I can't believe they invented a villain specifically to ruin their wedding! Cool to see Delta Burke, though.

And the episode after was another stall, but at least we got to see HG Wells again, and L&C in some period costumes.

---

Also decided to re-watch the pilot; Wow, I didn't realize that "Cool costume  -- Thanks my mom made it" (not verbatim) actually originated from this show! Nice. I'll probably try to re-watch Season 1 after I finish Season 4.

[Trini]

Up to S4, episode 8;  I wish more shows would see that their main couple can still be interesting, engaging, etc. once they are together.

I loved Clark's "I don't break the rules, but you are the ONE person I would break all the rules for" energy during the arc where Lois is framed for murder.

It was kinda weird to have a villain named Deathstroke who was nothing like the comic version. I assume DC had to approve the name, ... but they didn't approve of the rest??

It's interesting to see how Lois and Clark's haircuts change over time.

Edited April 28 by Trini

[Trini]

Got to "Ghosts" (S4, Ep. 9) and I think I can confidently say it's the worst episode of the series. A cringe psuedo-crossover with The Drew Carey Show. This is definitely a skip.

It seems like there were a bunch of Season 4 episodes I didn't see in the 90s.

[Trini]

The middle-ish Season 4 episodes:

Again, fun to see some of the guest stars that were on this show.

It's almost hilarious how the writers/whoever felt the need to reiterate that Lois & Clark are sexy people having sex all the time -- I guess to make up for 3+ seasons of 'celibacy'? Clark "missing" when he goes to warm up Lois feet with laservision might be the most risqué thing they did on the show.

And in another case of we gotta do the thing but we can't actually say the thing because it's a family show: Dr. Klein asking for a sperm sample from Superman ... without actually asking for it -- with him being so vague that even Superman is confused - LOL!

Clark is excellent here; but it's kinda a shame that his Superman seems often depowered; I know it's because of the budget, and the special effects that were possible (at that budget) at the time, though. But it was also how they wrote the stories; I feel like Tempus shouldn't have been so hard to defeat in that John Doe arc.

With the Leslie Luckaby/Lex Jr. arc, I keep thinking, you spent $500 million for a superpowered android, but not any on plastic surgery??

Was a bit surprised episode at 4.20, which had the concept of a magic stone that swaps minds/souls -- Smallville also did something similar in Season 4 (episode 6, "Transference").

---

Okay, last two episodes to go!

 

Edited May 20 by Trini

[Trini]

The  last two Season 4 episodes:

I guess I'm used to today's shows closing their seasons with a high stakes two-parter, because I felt the finale was a bit silly - the villain certainly was - although I thought Lois & Clark's baby subplot was mostly good. There were some really sweet scenes with Lois & Clark.

The episode before ("Toy Story") was kinda silly as well, however, I thought the A-plot tied in much better with the B-plot of Lois & Clark's feelings, etc. about having children.

Random baby showing up out of nowhere is kind of a crazy cliffhanger to end the season and the show on; I really wonder if they really would have had them raising a baby along with the Daily Planet and Superman plots.

----

Watched Season 1, episode 2; and my main takeaway was - 'Wow - they really had Lois kissing Clark in episode 2?? Insane!'  They weren't playing around, LOL!

Edited May 29 by Trini

[Trini]

So I'm a little past halfway through Season 1; and after watching Seasons 2-4, in which Clark and Lois are a couple for most/all of those seasons, it feels a little odd to see Lois pining for Superman AND dunking on Clark in these episodes. But at the same time, they had Lois and Clark/Superman kissing way more times than I remembered. There's even an (way too soon?) "I love you"!

That pheromone perfume episode was cringe; even if 'mind-whammied' (or not) nearly everyone was acting out-of-character. However, the next episode, "Honeymoon in Metropolis" was so much better.

I can see why they dropped Cat Grant from the show -- they mostly just used her for sex jokes and jabs at Lois -- but they also could have just, you know, written her better. Or get her involved with a Superman plot once in a while. I do wonder how Cat would have reacted in that Season 4 plot where Lois is caught 'cheating' on Clark with Superman.

[Trini]

So I'm two-thirds of the way through Season 1, and I know that the season ends with the (failed) Lex/Lois wedding, so I'm waiting for that arc of Lex dating Lois, and it's still not here. I for sure thought more time/episodes were spent on that.

I do wonder what's the story behind Lex being a regular for only one season. He definitely could have stayed around a bit longer.

[Trini]

Towards the end of Season 1, I think they had finally got to a good place with the Clark/Lois relationship -- they were believable as colleagues and friends, and there was a lot less pining (Lois for Superman, and Clark for Lois). Before going fully into a romantic arc, the dynamic really worked well at this point.

So I've got 3 episodes left of Season 1, and still no Lex/Lois. Seems like that arc was a last-minute addition? This show wasn't really serialized, especially in the first season, but you'd think that would be something they'd set up better if they knew they were going to do that for the finale.

[fromtheashes]

On 6/24/2024 at 7:42 PM, Trini said:

So I've got 3 episodes left of Season 1, and still no Lex/Lois. Seems like that arc was a last-minute addition? This show wasn't really serialized, especially in the first season, but you'd think that would be something they'd set up better if they knew they were going to do that for the finale.

Rewatching again for the first time in years and I noticed the same thing this time around. Lex is very clearly interested in Lois but she doesn't really seem to be into him that way. She's intrigued by him and definitely into him as an interview get but their realtionship sort of seemed to come out of no where. 

Its still a solid watch all these years later though. I feel like it holds up pretty well for a 30 year old show. Dean and Teri have great chemistry and of course the cast as a whole just play off each other well.