S08.11: Witchin' and Bitchin'

[Dirtybubble]

Quote

A conversation about their future leaves Paige and Craig uneasy about the present.  While West receives an exciting opportunity, Jesse worries about his upcoming doctor's appointment.  Carl wrestles with how to tell Lindsay about his parent's concerns.

 

[Mindthinkr]

I’m over 40 minutes into this and is it me, or does Carl look emaciated? 

[ZettaK]

1 hour ago, Mindthinkr said:

I’m over 40 minutes into this and is it me, or does Carl look emaciated? 

Yes, he does. He seems to be getting thinner as the season progresses.

[Chalby]

I'm just starting to watch this episode now, and just within the first minute I'm thinking to myself, Carl is so terrified of Lindsay, he's going to present his negative fears about getting married onto his Stepdad and Mom, rather than explain that He went to Them with his doubts. They only confirmed what he felt.

[dancingdreamer]

Carl is so nervous, I think  he's  afraid  of Lindsay. When he was speaking  to Kyle and Amanda, I figured  they'd  say, he has to tell her what Lou had said. 

West is not exclusive  with Ciara, so he sees other girls. I don't get what the problem  is.

I can see where Craig and Paige  are coming  from, she's going to have to commit,  or let the relationship  go. He really  wants a family,  before  he gets much older. I really  like Craig.

Good luck Jesse Soloman, on your 5 year check up.

[APK]

I really haven't been keeping up with the show and episodes this season. I was impressed with Danielle on Andy Cohen's show which aired after the most recent episode of Summer House. Danielle looks good sporting a fresh and new hairstyle. Danielle's hairstyle also made her face look different in my opinion. Was it her bangs? How tall is Danielle? Tonight, on Andy Cohen's show, Danielle was wearing a dress that showed off her nice legs. Probably the best I've seen Danielle on camera.

Edited May 3 by APK

[APK]

Does anyone think Paige and Craig are already secretly married? Somebody call Alex Jones and let the conspiracy theories begin running through the mind. 🤣🤣 My  comments are not political, I'm just trying to funny.

[snarts]

Wondering why would Carl choose to have the conversations about his parents concerns with Lindsey on camera. It's either A) he was afraid of her reaction & thought on camera was safer, or B) he's purposely laying the groundwork/building a storyline on why he backed out of the wedding.

I understand why she has blinders on, desperately hoping to get to the altar with someone, anyone. But, it doesn't make a lot of sense why Carl waited as long as he did to pull the plug, unless he was strategically trying to cultivate a storyline and curry favor with the viewers. Hmm.

Paige & Craig are like opposite of Carl & Lindsey. It's apparent that they've had multiple conversations off camera and have strategized/agreed on what they'll share on camera. The picnic lunch discussion was completely staged. I'm 99% sure that Craig has the ring, they've discussed exactly when/where they'll get engaged, and they've decided on their long term plan. 

While I get that West & Ciara aren't committed so he's within his rights to chat up other women, I also understand why Ciara would be hurt by the news. IMHO, typically when you meet someone you're interested in, they become your main focus, even before there's a label slapped on it.

Plus, I don't like how he's continually using the lack of sex to as a reason why he's not committed. I miss the old days of dating when you often announced yourselves as a couple before banging like bunnies. 

[esco1822]

I have to admit that I felt really terrible for Lindsay in this episode. It's probably the most vulnerable she's been on camera.  I'm glad she's on such good terms with tall the other ladies and let them in about her feelings. I also think it was really courageous to even mention anything to Carl's mom. Awkward, but probably would have been worse had she not done it and continued to build up resentment and self-doubt. I really think she handled everything (so far) very well. 

I like West and I can understand why he would think that Ciara isn't serious about him if, at this point, they have not had sex. I don't blame him for responding to texts, it's not like he's dating or having sex with other women (that we know of). He seems smitten with her.

[b2H]

I am lukewarm about the responses to Carl and Lindsey.  She is someone to be frightened of, based on her normal behavior.  She is gaslighting Carl six ways from Sunday - I remember from the opening of the new season where he apparently let her know the wedding wasn't going to happen (not a spoiler, since this entire season is a flashback as to how they got to that point).  First thing she did was run to the phone to get her story out before Carl's truth got out there.

She is a conniving individual and cannot ever be seen in a bad light or seen to be wrong.

Carl on the other hand is still in his recovery.  He shouldn't have gotten engaged or even into a fulltime relationship until he'd settled into his recovery.  In addition to his recovery, he had to deal with the loss of his brother and, as he said in the previous episode, get used to his 'new family', when his mother re-married.  For a normal person not dealing with addiction issues, his family issues are a lot to cope with.  He also needs to make his OWN decisions about what he wants to do with his life.  Lindsey is not supportive of ANYthing that takes Carl out of her orbit where she can control him to her liking.

The others on the show see the issues but are smartly staying out of it before Lindsey goes on the attack against them, too.

I cannot imagine what next season is going to look like with the fall-out of the failed engagement.  Either Lindsey or Carl will have to figure out if they can be part of the show if the other is also involved - I can see Lindsey trying very hard to keep her spot on the show, so she doesn't have to go to work like the rest of them do.  We could lose Carl in all of this and that would be one more destructive factor in his life, along with all the others.

[heatherchandler]

1 hour ago, esco1822 said:

I also think it was really courageous to even mention anything to Carl's mom.

She was extremely weird with Carl’s mom.  She gave so many non-verbal cues that she was either annoyed by his mom or just thinks she’s icky.. she had her back turned to her, she was ice cold.  She kept looking at the camera when she had to hug her or even speak with her.  Lindsay does NOT like or want acceptance from Carl’s mom.

[b2H]

3 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

She was extremely weird with Carl’s mom.  She gave so many non-verbal cues that she was either annoyed by his mom or just thinks she’s icky.. she had her back turned to her, she was ice cold.  She kept looking at the camera when she had to hug her or even speak with her.  Lindsay does NOT like or want acceptance from Carl’s mom.

I thought it was incredibly inappropriate to confront Carl's mom at the shower about everything.  She wanted to create a scene, but just made herself look quite juvenile.

[peachmangosteen]

16 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

She was extremely weird with Carl’s mom.  She gave so many non-verbal cues that she was either annoyed by his mom or just thinks she’s icky.. she had her back turned to her, she was ice cold.  She kept looking at the camera when she had to hug her or even speak with her.  Lindsay does NOT like or want acceptance from Carl’s mom.

She just found out his mom basically said she didn't know if her son should marry her lol.

I was starting to buy into the theory that Carl was trying to pull a Sandoval and gaslight the audience into being on his side but this episode makes me think he's just a weak person. I don't necessarily buy that he's 'scared' of Lindsay though. He just doesn't wanna look bad. He wanted everyone else to make it clear that they shouldn't get married. Hell, maybe he even hoped Lindsay would be the one to break it off so he never had to actually have a real conversation with her. And yea I do now believe Lindsay was blindsided. Sure, we can see that Carl didn't wanna get married from the jump but he was truly gaslighting Lindsay into thinking he was. Him showing up to her bridal shower when he knew full well they shouldn't get married is nasty lol.

Edited May 4 by peachmangosteen

[Marley]

I’m no Lindsay fan but Carl seems to be setting up the breakup on camera. Why wouldn’t he have had his convo with his parents in private otherwise. The way he’s bringing up these convos to Lindsay too is so weird. He’s almost gaslighting her. It’s awkward to watch. He’s so easily overwhelmed too. He obviously doesn’t wanna get married but keeps telling Lindsay he does. He needs to get a grip. I get he’s in recovery but it seems like you’d always have to walk on eggshells around him.

I had to FF some of the bridal shower. Lindsay so obviously doesn’t like Carl’s mom. It was too awkward to watch lol.

Kyle needs to cut that stupid mullet already. It’s so terrible.

I hope Paige and Craig make it.

For some reason West was annoying me this episode. Good for him on the job but just sometimes the way he acts seems try hard lol.

Edited May 4 by Marley

[Vivigirl10]

I'm not a Lindsay fan AT ALL but I'm done with Carl.  Lindsay doesn't hide what a terrible human she is and Carl certainly has known her long enough.  And yet he willingly chose to jump feet first into a relationship with her.  Now he's dragged her along to within inches of the alter and he completely wimps out.  Even if his absolute stupidity got the better of him initially when he first started dating her, he had plenty of time to come to his senses and cut the cord before this.  Again, everyone knows who Lindsay is.  I'm not at all saying that he's gone this far so now he's obligated to marry her, just that he was an idiot not to break up with her long ago (even more of an dummy to get involved in the first place).

I don't know why but Carl's Mom has always bugged me.

I think in this game of telephone, what West said has gotten twisted.  He hasn't done anything wrong to Ciara.

I like Paige but Craig needs to listen to what she's saying.  She's not ready to get married and doesn't know when she will be.  She's not even at the point of being able to envision when she will be.  How many times can she say it?  They're in different places in life and that's sad but it's o.k.  Craig is ready.  Craig needs to wise up and move on.     

It also may be an instance of "you don't know what you've got until it's gone" with Paige and things may get really clear really fast if he were to leave her.

[DrSparkles]

I had to remind myself that Carl’s mom lost her other son very recently & with Carl in recovery… I am sure she worries about him even more than a mom normally would with someone like Lindsey in the picture.

[red12]

On 5/3/2024 at 3:09 PM, snarts said:

Wondering why would Carl choose to have the conversations about his parents concerns with Lindsey on camera. It's either A) he was afraid of her reaction & thought on camera was safer, or B) he's purposely laying the groundwork/building a storyline on why he backed out of the wedding.

I understand why she has blinders on, desperately hoping to get to the altar with someone, anyone. But, it doesn't make a lot of sense why Carl waited as long as he did to pull the plug, unless he was strategically trying to cultivate a storyline and curry favor with the viewers. Hmm.

Paige & Craig are like opposite of Carl & Lindsey. It's apparent that they've had multiple conversations off camera and have strategized/agreed on what they'll share on camera. The picnic lunch discussion was completely staged. I'm 99% sure that Craig has the ring, they've discussed exactly when/where they'll get engaged, and they've decided on their long term plan. 

While I get that West & Ciara aren't committed so he's within his rights to chat up other women, I also understand why Ciara would be hurt by the news. IMHO, typically when you meet someone you're interested in, they become your main focus, even before there's a label slapped on it.

Plus, I don't like how he's continually using the lack of sex to as a reason why he's not committed. I miss the old days of dating when you often announced yourselves as a couple before banging like bunnies. 

Carl & Lindsey: I think he is scared of Lindsey and avoidant/scared of looking like the bad guy in general. He seems to be a pleaser type of person in need of approval which causes him to be manipulative. See how he handled Loverboy too.

Lindsay appears to fear rejection and crave a nuclear family at all costs. From all the seasons I have seen her, I didn't know the stuff about her mom but that wound might be the origin of her problems bonding with female castmates. Also, her forcefulness for commitment and engagement with guys before Carl seems to point to her having a timetable that each guy has more and more pressure to meet. They are the perfect combo for a last-minute bomb drop like they had. I'm just glad Carl didn't go on a bender and not get on the plane for the wedding to sabotage it.

I agree with all the points about Paige and Craig. My daughter has a crush on Craig for some reason and adds "but not as cute as Craig" to all observations of cute boys.

West & Ciara: I'm with you about missing the good old days. Also, my BFF made the observation when we were in college and I always use it as a checkpoint, "You're allowed to feel whatever you feel and it's valid. But, what you aren't allowed is to act and say whatever based on those feelings." That inner voice has saved me many times.

[gwen747]

On 5/6/2024 at 8:58 AM, red12 said:

Also, my BFF made the observation when we were in college and I always use it as a checkpoint, "You're allowed to feel whatever you feel and it's valid. But, what you aren't allowed is to act and say whatever based on those feelings."

Excellent advice.