Space Shuttle Columbia: The Final Flight - General Discussion

[DanaK]

CNN 4-part doc series that premieres April 7

Quote

CNN Original Series, Space Shuttle Columbia: The Final Flight examines the 2003 Space Shuttle disaster across four immersive episodes featuring exclusive interviews and revealing never-before-broadcast footage. Co-produced by BBC and Mindhouse Productions, the four-part series will premiere with two episodes on Sunday, April 7 at 9pm ET/PT on CNN. The final two episodes will air the following Sunday, April 14 at 9pm ET/PT.

Columbia was the first Space Shuttle to launch and redefined space travel - it took off like a rocket, landed like a plane, and was reusable - making the dream of routine space flight a tangible reality. Across four episodes, the story of the ticking-clock of Columbia's final mission is told in dramatic detail, beginning months before the troubled launch, unfolding across the sixteen days in orbit, and concluding with the investigation into the tragic loss of the seven astronauts' lives. Weaving together intimate footage shot by the astronauts themselves inside the orbiter, exclusive first-hand testimony from family members of the Shuttle's crew, key players at NASA - some of whom have never spoken before - and journalists who covered the story on the ground, the series paints an intimate portrait of the women and men onboard and uncovers in forensic detail the trail of events and missed opportunities that ultimately led to disaster.

Full press release http://www.thefutoncritic.com/news/2024/03/07/cnn-surveys-space-shuttle-columbia-the-final-flight-in-new-cnn-original-series-763413/20240307cnn01/

Trailer

 

Edited March 8 by DanaK

[Bastet]

I said as soon as I finished the Challenger documentary on Netflix I wanted the producers to get to work on one about Columbia, since it was the same damn scenario -- NASA knew there was a problem (this time with foam instead of o-rings), and recklessly cost the lives of seven people.

It will also be good to get information on that mission, since, unlike the usual of heading to the ISS, they were doing a slew of experiments in space, 24 hrs/day in two shifts. 

[Cobb Salad]

Unfortunately for the crew this shuttle mission didn’t include a trip to the ISS. IIRC they didn’t have the ability (i.e. the needed parts or whatever) to dock the shuttle to the ISS so this as a last minute solution wasn’t possible.

Will try to watch to see how they cover this part of the mission.  

[stonehaven]

What I loved about the Challenger one is ALL that footage of the astronauts talking and in training. It made them feel more like real people instead of mythological figures in a grand tragedy.

[Annber03]

On 3/19/2024 at 5:44 AM, stonehaven said:

What I loved about the Challenger one is ALL that footage of the astronauts talking and in training. It made them feel more like real people instead of mythological figures in a grand tragedy.

Watching this special now, and I like that they're doing that here, too, with these astronauts, showing the clips of them talking to their famileis and sending messages back home, and the clips of them preparing for their trip and everything. It's bittersweet and haunting to see the astronauts happily going about their business on teh shuttle, too, and having no clue what's coming.That CNN interviewer being unsure of how to bring up the topic, and then the email later on reassuring the crew that they're fine, when everyone  back at headquarters is still so uncertain and just assuming they'll be okay...agh. 

The interviews with the astronauts' families are vere emotional, too. Especially the interviews with the astronauts' children, they're all breaking my heart into pieces and getting me all choked up, knowing their worries and anxieties, and their struggle at being separated from their loved ones, will be eerily and tragically well-founded. But I'm appreciating getting to hear from everyone involved in watching this ill-fated launch - the description of the adrenaline rush that comes with watching a shuttle take off and the tension of making sure it all goes well was very palpable. I felt my palms get a little sweaty watching this - mind, it's largely because I know what will happen, but also because it really is a startling and intense thing to witness, even when things do go perfectly. 

It's so frustrating, seeing the limitations and hurdles these investigators are having to deal with in order to try and figure out just how much damage the shuttle experienced. It's alternately like they were scrambling and moving in a time crunch they really did could not afford all at the same time. And then to just basically have their request from the DoD not go anywhere on top of that... So frustrating. Talk about your "what if?" scenarios. I get the wariness of not following chain of command, but...god, if only someone had spoken up sooner and taken that risk. 

The tribute to the Challenger and Apollo crews was poignant. 

Bracing for the next part - no doubt it'll be both interesting and horrifying in equal measure. 

[DanaK]

4 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Watching this special now, and I like that they're doing that here, too, with these astronauts, showing the clips of them talking to their famileis and sending messages back home, and the clips of them preparing for their trip and everything. It's bittersweet and haunting to see the astronauts happily going about their business on teh shuttle, too, and having no clue what's coming.That CNN interviewer being unsure of how to bring up the topic, and then the email later on reassuring the crew that they're fine, when everyone  back at headquarters is still so uncertain and just assuming they'll be okay...agh. 

The interviews with the astronauts' families are vere emotional, too. Especially the interviews with the astronauts' children, they're all breaking my heart into pieces and getting me all choked up, knowing their worries and anxieties, and their struggle at being separated from their loved ones, will be eerily and tragically well-founded. But I'm appreciating getting to hear from everyone involved in watching this ill-fated launch - the description of the adrenaline rush that comes with watching a shuttle take off and the tension of making sure it all goes well was very palpable. I felt my palms get a little sweaty watching this - mind, it's largely because I know what will happen, but also because it really is a startling and intense thing to witness, even when things do go perfectly. 

It's so frustrating, seeing the limitations and hurdles these investigators are having to deal with in order to try and figure out just how much damage the shuttle experienced. It's alternately like they were scrambling and moving in a time crunch they really did could not afford all at the same time. And then to just basically have their request from the DoD not go anywhere on top of that... So frustrating. Talk about your "what if?" scenarios. I get the wariness of not following chain of command, but...god, if only someone had spoken up sooner and taken that risk. 

The tribute to the Challenger and Apollo crews was poignant. 

Bracing for the next part - no doubt it'll be both interesting and horrifying in equal measure. 

Sometimes though, you have to take the risk to buck authority, especially when there have been previous incidents, like with the Challenger disaster

I’m old enough to remember this happening. First clue I had of course was when the shuttle was returning and the news was reporting NASA had lost contact with the ship. Such a tragedy, though who knows if the ship could have been saved or if a rescue mission was possible

[emma675]

I finally watched the first two parts and it was really good. I like all of the video with the crew and their families they're showing, it really helps to drive home their true personalities and relationships. Laurel Clark's son just breaks my heart. And Ilan Ramon's son looks so much like him.

One thing bugged me - when one of the producers off camera was kind of nagging the one engineer about why he never broke the chain of command and sent the email he drafted (the one where he specifically said it was irresponsible not to push harder to investigate the damage). I felt like she was almost trying to pin the blame on him for the disaster in retrospect, which I didn't think was fair. Yes, he could have sent that email, but given what we've seen about the chain of command at NASA then, things probably would have turned out the same. There really wasn't a realistic rescue plan even if they had discovered the extent of the damage while they were in space, was there? I didn't think they could dock with the ISS, they only had enough oxygen for a set amount of time, and I don't think they had the type of supplies to fix the damaged wing. I remember in missions after Columbia they equipped the astronauts with tools and tiles to fix damage to the heat shield and even had them doing EVAs to inspect the shuttle while in orbit. 

[AheadofStraight]

Do these docs typically end up streaming on one of the services? CNN's site requires a cable log in and we got rid of cable ages ago.

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, AheadofStraight said:

Do these docs typically end up streaming on one of the services?

CNN's Martha Stewart documentary wound up streaming on numerous services.

Edited April 11 by Bastet

[DanaK]

1 hour ago, AheadofStraight said:

Do these docs typically end up streaming on one of the services? CNN's site requires a cable log in and we got rid of cable ages ago.

CNN’s docs typically end up on Max after a few months

[AheadofStraight]

Good to know, thanks!

[Annber03]

Parts 3 and 4...

Holy hell, the footage from the day of the crash. Dear god, that was intense. Everything from mission control was absolutely haunting. The radar image that was stalled out. Everyone's faces as it started to dawn on them something had gone horribly wrong.

I think the part htat broke me, though, was the faces of the people when they heard about the debris. You didn't have to hear any of what they were saying to each other, their faces said it all. And then the newsanchors having to suddenly go into, "...uhhhhhh, okay, this is getting real serious real fast" mode. Just. Wow. Absolutely horrifying. 

The footage of the astronauts as they're on their way down, blissfully unaware, and their kids recalling how excited they were to see their parents coming home, and the adults know, but they're scared to let on, 'cause kids, and the moment when they recalled getting the news their loved ones weren't coming home...just heartbreaking. Absolutely heartbreaking. Kaycee's whole thing about imagining a lifeboat, and not understanding, at the tender age of nine, what it means when the shuttle broke apart. The poor girl :(. That, along with Ian's dad worrying about his mental state...that got me. As did the end reveal with Iain's daughter. All these kids, I just want to give them the world's biggest hugs.  I sympathized with their struggle to grieve in public, too, and feeling like your loss isn't your own. That's a hell of a heavy realization for a child to make and deal with. 

And then the debris field. That fire. Jesus. I can't even begin to imagine trying to recover those bodies. I appreciate Mark Kelly talking about how they handled that. 

I can't imagine what it had to be like for Rodney, to sit in that mission control room, too, and seeing his worst fears come to pass. He was right to snap. 

It's maddening how the chain of command continues to be an obstacle in these situations. People died. Isn't that enough reason to not be so rigid in the following investigation? I get it's hard to admit mistakes, but people are already angry with you as it is. At least if they'd just admitted and acknowledged they made a lot of mistakes, it might make it easeir to handle and deal with the fallout. 

It's just crazy how such a reputatble organization can continue to make these same kinds of mistakes, can still refuse to speak up and communicate, can still refuse to listen to the warnings about any potential dangers, even after all these tragic events. For all the talk about how Challenger changed things, it really didn't seem to, not where the culture and behavior at NASA is concerned, anyway. 

As for the insistence that the foam couldn't do that kind of damage, 'cause 'it's just foam"...I mean....how often do you see, in violent storms, items and objects  that are normally not considered lethal suddenly becoming lethal and causing damage and killing people? These people are dealing with scientific matters, for cripes' sakes, surely they should realize that foam falling at that rapid a pace in that dramatic a moment (with a shuttle reentering the atmosphere), could potentially prove similarly impactful, no?

And then the reveal that there had been multiple instances of foam falling prior to that. I wonder if any of the astronauts on any of those other flights knew about that? I wonder what it must be like to find out that could've been them, had things gone just a little differently. 

I hope the new efforts in space prove much more successful. I hope they genuinely have learned from this disaster. I can't say I'll balme people for being skeptical and wary, though. I don't blame Kaycee for her ambivalence she spoke about. But I really do hope any changes that have come about since then prove beneficial. 

Edited April 15 by Annber03

[BAForever]

Such a good show. The faces on all of the people in the command center- wow. They were so calm, but you could feel their tension. And watching the families get shuttled to the building to hear the news that would change their lives forever. 

Hope that NASA learned from this tragedy and made it easy for their people to come forward with concerns. 

Poor Iain Clark, he knew in his 9 year old brain that something was going to go wrong. 

A really good documentary, I highly recommend it.

[Bastet]

14 hours ago, Annber03 said:

For all the talk about how Challenger changed things, it really didn't seem to, not where the culture and behavior at NASA is concerned, anyway. 

That's what made this disaster particularly infuriating.  I remember where I was when I heard the news on the radio, and my "Dammit, I bet NASA did it again" thought came immediately on the heels of my "Oh, no!" thought.  I didn't trust that wanton level of hubris to have changed, even once it killed seven people.  The report, of course, bore that out -- there is such a disturbing extent to which all that's different between the two are most of the names and "foam" for "o-ring".

I haven't watched this yet, having decided to wait until all parts were on the CNN app so I can watch it all at once if I choose.  Maybe I'll settle in with it next weekend; I'm glad to hear everyone so far thinks it was well done.

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

The report, of course, bore that out -- there is such a disturbing extent to which all that's different between the two are most of the names and "foam" for "o-ring".

Honestly, it really is eerie how many similarities there were between the two tragedies. Even the makeup of both teams looked similar. 

[emma675]

Watched the final two episodes - what an amazing documentary. It was equal parts educational, sad, and infuriating. 

Imo, NASA killed the crew of Columbia. They knew of the foam issue, they saw firsthand the damage it caused to the booster on STS-112, and they willfully turned their backs on taking the time to fully investigate the issue to stick to their launch schedule. Like the CNN reporter said, NASA should have done that foam test the second they knew falling foam was an issue. They essentially learned nothing from Challenger. It's just astounding how silo-ed the communication was within NASA. A place where open communication between departments should be a key component of the culture. 

I grew up in east Texas near Nacogdoches and I happened to be at home that weekend visiting my parents. I remember vaguely hearing a muffled boom early that morning, but I went back to sleep. My mom woke me up about an hour later with the news. Debris just rained down over the county, it's amazing no one on the ground was killed. I remember the local news warning people not to touch debris because no one knew if it was dangerous or not. And one report was of finding body parts in a field and realizing they were truly gone. It was just heartbreaking.

I had grown up as a NASA nerd and went to Space Camp in the 4th grade. I remember watching Challenger explode on TV as a young child. After the Columbia investigation concluded, I never looked at NASA the same.

[anna0852]

On 4/11/2024 at 1:48 PM, AheadofStraight said:

Do these docs typically end up streaming on one of the services? CNN's site requires a cable log in and we got rid of cable ages ago.

I’ve got Hulu with the live option and it’s there for me.

[AheadofStraight]

Thanks - I have Hulu but not the live option.

[anna0852]

As excited as I am for the Artemis program and the return to the moon, I’m dreading the inevitable disaster that will occur. The only reason NASA hasn’t had another one by now is because they stopped flying the shuttles. If you look back over the timing from Apollo One to Challenger to Columbia, they’re all approximately 15 to 20 years apart. NASA is overdue and I sincerely hope that all of these culture changes that get thrown around every time something happens actually occurred this time. 

[secnarf]

7 hours ago, anna0852 said:

As excited as I am for the Artemis program and the return to the moon, I’m dreading the inevitable disaster that will occur. The only reason NASA hasn’t had another one by now is because they stopped flying the shuttles. If you look back over the timing from Apollo One to Challenger to Columbia, they’re all approximately 15 to 20 years apart. NASA is overdue and I sincerely hope that all of these culture changes that get thrown around every time something happens actually occurred this time. 

Every generation needs to learn the lesson for themselves, it seems. And now, with so many people there who will be sending astronauts to space for the first time ever, it wouldn't surprise me at all for the cycle to repeat.

[proserpina65]

On 4/15/2024 at 1:58 AM, Annber03 said:

For all the talk about how Challenger changed things, it really didn't seem to, not where the culture and behavior at NASA is concerned, anyway. 

It's almost like the Challenger disaster changed things for the worse, making NASA bureaucracy even more insular and less open to the voicing of concerns.

In all likelihood, there was nothing anyone could have done to prevent the Columbia disaster once the shuttle had been launched, but had the higher ups at NASA pursued the options to get better pictures of the shuttle's underside, they would have had more information and might have known one way or the other if there was anything to be done.  But no, we won't ask the DOD for their satellites to take a look because we might not see anything and that would be embarrassing, oy.

[emma675]

The engineer who choked up and went off camera for a bit because he was still wracked with guilt over the families not being able to say goodbye broke my heart. He and the other engineer (who skipped the public memorial service and sobbed in his office) talked about their grief and guilt so deeply. I wish the chain of command at NASA had given them the opportunity to say something or do something back then. Even if the result ended up being the same, at least they could have tried. 

I truly hope the culture at NASA has changed, but I seriously doubt it. Sadly, I think the next disaster will probably look like Challenger and Columbia, with those in charge shaking their heads and saying "we don't know how this happened" all over again. 

Edited April 17 by emma675

[Annber03]

8 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

In all likelihood, there was nothing anyone could have done to prevent the Columbia disaster once the shuttle had been launched, but had the higher ups at NASA pursued the options to get better pictures of the shuttle's underside, they would have had more information and might have known one way or the other if there was anything to be done.  But no, we won't ask the DOD for their satellites to take a look because we might not see anything and that would be embarrassing, oy.

You also wonder what might've happened if the crew had been alerted sooner, or knew of the bigger concerns people were having sooner. When they did finally get a heads up on the issues with the shuttle, it was in a very vague, "Eh, we think something happened, but it doesn't seem to be of any real concern, so don't worry about it" sort of way. Maybe if they'd known that people on the ground had had these concerns for a while and knew why they were so concerned, even if they weren't able to actively DO anything, maybe they could've said, "Oh, yeah, now you mention it, we did notice something kind of odd out here a couple days ago..." or something of that sort. At least then the people on the ground might've had a little more confirmation that their fears were valid and might've had a little more ammunition to use to try and figure out what went wrong. 

[Bastet]

13 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

In all likelihood, there was nothing anyone could have done to prevent the Columbia disaster once the shuttle had been launched, but had the higher ups at NASA pursued the options to get better pictures of the shuttle's underside, they would have had more information and might have known one way or the other if there was anything to be done. 

 

4 hours ago, Annber03 said:

You also wonder what might've happened if the crew had been alerted sooner, or knew of the bigger concerns people were having sooner.

I've only watched part one so far, so presumably the documentary gets into this, but the biggest problem is not how NASA handled or mishandled things following this launch, knowing the specifics of what they knew about this particular foam strike.  That is obviously a big part of the conversation, but, like with the known o-ring issue that ultimately destroyed Challenger, the biggest problem is that NASA knew of the potential for catastrophic (which is what they use to describe total loss of shuttle and crew) damage as a result of "shedding" foam, and had in fact seen numerous non-catastrophic instances of damage from foam breaking loose from this particular area of the tank on previous flights, yet overrode their own safety rules in continuing to launch anyway with foam that so easily broke free, reclassifying it it as an acceptable risk because the worst case scenario hadn't (yet) happened.

Edited April 18 by Bastet

[proserpina65]

15 hours ago, Bastet said:

 

I've only watched part one so far, so presumably the documentary gets into this, but the biggest problem is not how NASA handled or mishandled things following this launch, knowing the specifics of what they knew about this particular foam strike.  That is obviously a big part of the conversation, but, like with the known o-ring issue that ultimately destroyed Challenger, the biggest problem is that NASA knew of the potential for catastrophic (which is what they use to describe total loss of shuttle and crew) damage as a result of "shedding" foam, and had in fact seen numerous non-catastrophic instances of damage from foam breaking loose from this particular area of the tank on previous flights, yet overrode their own safety rules in continuing to launch anyway with foam that so easily broke free, reclassifying it it as an acceptable risk because the worst case scenario hadn't (yet) happened.

It does talk about that.  It was a massive clusterfuck all around at NASA's higher levels.  Their chain of command culture was the biggest flaw of all.  The time to do something which would've prevented the tragedy was well before the launch but those with serious concerns weren't taken seriously.

 

[DanaK]

This will stream on Max starting May 20