S04.E01: Elysium

[Door County Cherry]

Quote

 

Season 4 opens with Eliza having taken over the business of Nash & Sons (not that he has any sons) and things are not going entirely smoothly, although help comes from some familiar sources. Outside of work, her relationship with William (The Duke) builds towards a looming decision that will shape both their lives.

In fact, Eliza teams up with Duke to investigate a burglary in a high-end brothel whose clients include important members of the British government.

 

 

[HoodlumSheep]

Leonard staging a brothel robbery??? Not believable. 0/10.

Lololol. A 'minister' indeed.

Moses enjoying Paris is code for "we're lucky if we get to see him this season," isn't it? :(

Let the Duke catch some rest!!!

[Door County Cherry]

1 hour ago, HoodlumSheep said:

Leonard staging a brothel robbery??? Not believable. 0/10.

Ha.  I thought that was him but I didn't couldn't find a cast list to confirm.  

[Orcinus orca]

Leonard!  Mrs. C will not be amused!

Apparently the only holdovers from the last season will be Ivy and a couple of the detectives.  Even Ivy's beau was mentioned but not seen.  And the Duke's girlfriend was neatly dispatched.

I hope Scotland Yard paid up front for Eliza's detective work.

[Trey]

Didn't we see him in that short scene in the morgue?

As soon as Eliza and the last remaining detective (couldn't find his name) came to an understanding I figured he would be taking over for Moses.  I hope not though.

 

[chaifan]

I'm a bit disappointed we don't get to see Eliza managing a bunch of men, but the show is being realistic about all of them quitting.  What I don't understand is how Nash would just allow the office to fall apart like that.  This is his business.  I would have liked to have had at least a one liner about how he a) either had faith in Eliza's ability to pull it back together (doubtful); b)  had a written contract with Eliza that he couldn't fire her for at least a year (that would have been smart of her); or c) just didn't care because his other office(s) are doing so great who cares if this one fails. 

I didn't like Duke essentially coming to the rescue and giving Eliza work, again.  I would have liked her to at least have one success independent of having to rely on getting a case from him.  I would have liked to see the brothel case come to her independently, and have the women there become her new network of informants - women helping women type of thing.

The end showdown between Duke and the madam...  it appeared she won that, but then Eliza was able to blackmail the reporter with knowledge of his watch (or whatever was stolen) being logged in as evidence.  So did Duke win that argument or not?

Despite my criticisms, I'm happy to have the show back. 

[Daff]

I’m going with option “c” on Nash, and with the reporter, she lied about it being logged as evidence. He’s not about to go to the police and tell them to get rid of the reference to him. I don’t think the episode was a complete wash. Eliza continues to gain trusted contacts and allies. Loved seeing Ivy broadening her horizons-the woman’s a sponge!

Edited January 8 by Daff

[taanja]

I enjoyed it - but maybe I'm easy?

ha!

I rewatched S 3 and saw the ep where Arabella (William's GF and Eliza's old nemesis) dumped William because she saw clearly that he is in love with Eliza.

So the new season seems to start some weeks/months after that? They made it clear that Eliza and William had NOT seen much of one another in that time.

I did miss Moses. I assume the actor is otherwise engaged. 

I literally watch this show for the Eliza/Duke relationship. The cases and whatnot are just icing on the cake.

I figure it will be fun when Nash comes back and finds what Eliza has done or hasn't done with his London office. Time will tell!

[Ilovepie]

14 hours ago, HoodlumSheep said:

Lololol. A 'minister' indeed.

He wasn't that kind of minister - he was a low level government official. Not sure how his "hunting accident" story for his wife will fly considering his was in town the whole time.....

I always find the mysteries on this show kind of silly, but I just love Eliza and Duke, and I've grown fond of all the other characters as well, with the exception of William's boss. It must be frustrating to work your ass off for an incompetent crony only to be threatened with sacking at every victory.

[12catcrazy]

Good to have the show back.  It was a hoot seeing "Leonard" as the culprit.  My companion saw him and said,  "We see this guy a lot - I think he's a 2nd banana in a show..."  LOL.  

I'm not invested in the Miss Scarlett/Duke relationship.  To me, it's like poop or get off the pot already.  I keep thinking that this is going to wind up as "Moonlighting" in Victorian garb.   I do love how they have interesting side characters and keep adding to the stories of the ones who return like Ivy. 

[statsgirl]

I'm glad Fitzroy survived his father and trials of last season and remains on the force. The exchanges with him and Seamus ('you should never cheat on your wife'...'wait until you're married'). Nice to see Ivy and Barnabas back too.

I miss Moses, his nephew doesn't seem to be nearly as cool.

LOL that no one cared that the original Elysium excluded women.

My biggest problem with the show is that I don't like Eliza.  She's pushy and lacks self0awareness unless Ivy or William push her to it. She claims that Nash's detectives quit because she's a woman but she would be a hard person to work for. She shut down the poor accountant every time he suggested that money would be better spent on advertising than on hiring actors and putting on a show but I think that he was right.

When the matron mistook Eliza for a new nurse, I thought that she was going to  go undercover for a while. It was disappointing to hear her claim privilege instead. Yes, it is harder to be a lady detective but it's Eliza's justification for every time things don't go her way rather than because she could have done things better.

I suppose I'm not impressed because I've met other Victorian lady detectives before: Marcia Muller's Sabrina Carpenter is set in San Francisco in the 1890s and the original of lady detectives, Baroness Orcy's Lady Molly of Scotland Yard published in 1910.

[Daff]

1 hour ago, 12catcrazy said:

Good to have the show back.  It was a hoot seeing "Leonard" as the culprit.  My companion saw him and said,  "We see this guy a lot - I think he's a 2nd banana in a show..."  LOL.  

I'm not invested in the Miss Scarlett/Duke relationship.  To me, it's like poop or get off the pot already.  I keep thinking that this is going to wind up as "Moonlighting" in Victorian garb.   I do love how they have interesting side characters and keep adding to the stories of the ones who return like Ivy. 

Yes, this. We know the speech Duke always gives because of the Victorian time period. Getting tired of hearing it dragged out so long again and again. Minimize those moments and get on with the plot. It’s like they just want us to tune in to get the Scarlet treatment each week and don’t want to be creative with the story anymore.

[Daff]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

I miss Moses, his nephew doesn't seem to be nearly as cool.

That was a different Jamaican-the shop owner cum “seer”. Probably that actor wasn’t available either, so they brought in a “nephew”. The shop/owner  has consistently been a valuable source of information for Scarlet, albeit, costly.

[4merBachAddict]

I really liked the episode!!! But a question: 'Leonard' who?

 

[taanja]

3 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

Good to have the show back.  It was a hoot seeing "Leonard" as the culprit.  My companion saw him and said,  "We see this guy a lot - I think he's a 2nd banana in a show..."  LOL.  

I'm not invested in the Miss Scarlett/Duke relationship.  To me, it's like poop or get off the pot already.  I keep thinking that this is going to wind up as "Moonlighting" in Victorian garb.   I do love how they have interesting side characters and keep adding to the stories of the ones who return like Ivy. 

Eliza and William already kind of act like a married couple. They could have them as a married couple that works together. it wouldn't even have to change the structure of the show - much.

My wish would be that the PTB do not keep playing the will they won't they crap. But for some reason the showrunners always think that's cute.

I have stopped watching more shows than I can count because of that kind of nonsense.

[Orcinus orca]

26 minutes ago, 4merBachAddict said:

I really liked the episode!!! But a question: 'Leonard' who?

 

Leonard is a main character in the Grantchester series.  A much beloved one!

[chaifan]

12 minutes ago, taanja said:

My wish would be that the PTB do not keep playing the will they won't they crap. But for some reason the showrunners always think that's cute.

I think the problem is, they've never really given any reason as to why these two are not together.  Yes, there is friction, but there's also obvious attraction on both sides.  In the real world, those two would have been matched up for marriage by the time she was 15.  William has had the occasional girlfriend, but there's never been a real reason as to what is keeping them apart.  Eliza likes her independence, but has never made an outright declaration that she will never marry. 

What I do wish they would do, is give Eliza another love interest, someone who is a true rival for William, someone with whom there's a chance Eliza could keep her detective business going.  (William's character, as written, would not allow his wife to work.)  I thought that was going to be Nash, it still could, I guess.  But I'd rather it be someone new. 

I think the dynamic would change far too much if they did get together.  And, as I said before, I can't see William allowing Eliza to work, so there goes the show.  I suppose they could get together mid-way through the last season, and the show ends with their wedding. 

[Door County Cherry]

On 1/8/2024 at 4:05 PM, 4merBachAddict said:

I really liked the episode!!! But a question: 'Leonard' who?

 

As mentioned above, Leonard is a character on Grantchester.  The actor who played the minister who faked the robbery plays Leonard. 

On 1/8/2024 at 4:49 PM, chaifan said:

I think the problem is, they've never really given any reason as to why these two are not together.  Yes, there is friction, but there's also obvious attraction on both sides.  In the real world, those two would have been matched up for marriage by the time she was 15. 

Your own post lays out the reasons the show has given as to why they're not together.  And while I don't love will they/won't they, I actually think the show has done a good job navigating that tension with slow incremental changes and realizations each season. 

I think William had an epiphany, thanks to Arabella, last season. He loves Eliza but he has to decide if he can be with her and give up the kind of life he'd prefer. The answer might be no but that's where we are in this episode.  

On 1/8/2024 at 4:49 PM, chaifan said:

I thought that was going to be Nash, it still could, I guess.

I thought so too.  As much as they're frenemies, he has no reservations about what she does.  

But I actually don't think a romantic rivalry is needed at this point. I don't think we need one to move the story forward at this point.  That's what Arabella did last season. They just need to be honest with how they feel and make a decision.  I'd only need another suitor if the decision is that they can't be together.  

[taanja]

On 1/8/2024 at 4:49 PM, chaifan said:

I think the problem is, they've never really given any reason as to why these two are not together.  Yes, there is friction, but there's also obvious attraction on both sides.  In the real world, those two would have been matched up for marriage by the time she was 15.  William has had the occasional girlfriend, but there's never been a real reason as to what is keeping them apart.  Eliza likes her independence, but has never made an outright declaration that she will never marry. 

What I do wish they would do, is give Eliza another love interest, someone who is a true rival for William, someone with whom there's a chance Eliza could keep her detective business going.  (William's character, as written, would not allow his wife to work.)  I thought that was going to be Nash, it still could, I guess.  But I'd rather it be someone new. 

I think the dynamic would change far too much if they did get together.  And, as I said before, I can't see William allowing Eliza to work, so there goes the show.  I suppose they could get together mid-way through the last season, and the show ends with their wedding. 

Personally I do NOT want another love interest for Eliza - or William for that matter! I like them working together and obviously knowing one another so well. They know each other's quirks and foibles. 

I think the showrunners (don't quote me! I very rarely if ever see or read behind the scenes stuff) have said that it is William who will have to change his attitude. Every time they work together he sees how brilliant Eliza is and he admires that.

They can become the unconventional couple -- ahead of their time -- married and solving mysteries together.

Surely the showrunners can think outside the box! They do NOT have to drag the will they won't they out until the bitter end.

[chaifan]

2 hours ago, taanja said:

They can become the unconventional couple -- ahead of their time -- married and solving mysteries together.

I agree that they could, but I'd be unhappy with it unless they make some incremental changes with William.  If they can write in some way that he would legitimately accept Eliza working after marriage, that would work.  But I don't see that happening in a single season.

Of course, even if they go there, then there's the problem of a giant conflict of interest if William keeps handing Eliza cases, or she gets any other kind of special privileges or access to detectives.  She does now, and that's partly why she's successful.  But that would be incredibly unethical for William to continue if they were in a relationship.  He could leave Scotland Yard, though...  

I do agree with you that I'm not a fan of the long, drawn out "will they/won't they" situation.  It works better for me in this show than in many others, but it does become a distraction.

[tennisgurl]

Coming into this season, I am really hoping that this is the season that Eliza and William finally get together. It seems like last season we played with the idea of Eliza and William finding love interests that fit into their ideas of the sort of person they "should" be with, Arabella and Nash, but it didn't work for either of them, so maybe this season they can finally admit their clearly mutual feelings now that they've admitted that they do work together, even if they aren't the people they expected to fall for. Plus, its season four and I feel like we are getting to the point where a main couple will they/wont they starts to feel less exciting and more tedious, they probably have just this season left before it gets old and starts to feel contrived. I know that the show is basically built on that sort of romance and writers and show runners are obsessed with that dynamic, but I think the show could use a change and having Eliza and William navigate their lives as an actual couple would give it a lot of new story opportunities. 

Not a perfect first episode, I missed a lot of the supporting cast (come back soon Moses!) but its nice to see the show back. This is one of those episodes where the case of the week was very much on the backburner compared to the character stuff, so the brothel robbery was just sort of "meh" although it did lead to Fitzroy being ridiculously adorable, geeking out over Greek mythology and being all affronted at very idea of a man cheating on his wife, what a cinnamon roll. 

I am sure that a big part of the reason that most of Nash's staff quit was because Eliza is a women, but her bull in a china shop approach managerial approach probably didn't help. Its true that they probably wouldn't have quit if she was a man doing the same thing, which is how a lot of her interactions go whenever she comes in hot on a case, but she just isn't and that's how things are. Its unfair and it sucks but I wish Eliza would realize that she could use a bit of honey to catch some flies and use the fact that she's a women to her advantage instead of doing things exactly like a man would and being pissed that it doesn't work out for her. I also have to agree with the accountant, paying actors to pretend to be her staff cant be the best way to spend their money. 

Eliza and William have such married couple energy already, they just need to make it official! No matter what other issues I may have with the show, they still have amazing chemistry. 

[Anothermi]

I have a lot of the hesitations (complaints) about this 1st episode that other's have laid out. I kept thinking "haven't we seen this before?"

But there is enough that I liked to keep watching. 

14 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Eliza and William have such married couple energy already, they just need to make it official! No matter what other issues I may have with the show, they still have amazing chemistry. 

I think Eliza's biggest obstacle is that she wants to be in control of her life. Her father brought her up in such a way that she WAS (for the most part). She was confident in knowing what she wanted and believed she deserved to act that way because men did it all the time. 

I also think it has been made clear that she knows that marriage would alter her legal rights to act that way. Men were still in control of their wives decisions and money back then. She seems to also be aware that if she gives in to her hormones her entire life will change (if/when she gets pregnant... and a married woman didn't have the legal right to say No). She will have no legal "Right" to make her own decisions about her own body. That is not to say she and William couldn't work that out between them, but it is much easier to stand on your rights than convince by discussion if you are the one with all the legal rights to do so. 

Eliza has been presented as a woman who needs to be in control of her own life and doesn't see why she shouldn't or can't be allowed to. 

That was set up back in S01 (or that's how I saw it) and I always see her backing away from saying yes to a traditional relationship with William—despite how she feels about him—because she knows the law only allows her to make her own decisions because 1) she is unmarried, and 2) she is a property owner.