S04.E08: Legacy

[paulvdb]

Quote

Plans are made with interplanetary ramifications. Ed begins working with an unexpected partner.

Premiere date: December 29, 2023

[ofmd]

I find myself not really interested in the main plot, the Great Asteroid Heist, except for the fact that Ed is truly despicable, but I already knew that.

Nice to see Sergej again! Ha, I knew something was up with Margo's boss. But she really has nowhere to go now. After the previous episode showed the protests against her, I feared for her life. An assassination would just be a thing this show pulls off. And I wonder if they will do away with all the old characters - Ed, Danni, and Margo - by the end of the season.

Edited December 29, 2023 by ofmd

[Cramps]

Agreed. I’m mainly interested in the Margo plot. I was very excited to see Sergei. 
 

“Meanwhile, back on Mars, Ed does something stupid.”

Ed is so out of control that I’m wondering if he is in the very early stages of dementia. 

[marinw]

Oh Sergei! Was his wife part of his original family or did he remarry and does this new wife not know about his past? She didn't have a Russian accent.

I have to admit I immediately thought "Alex!" when they needed someone small to crawl through the vent. You can't expect the kid to be tidy, I'm sure that tipped off people the next time the "Secure" storeroom was checked. They don't have security cameras in there? I wonder what Ed's cover story would have been if Alex was caught. Kelly is going to be furious when she finds out, but she is being a bit overprotective. In time she will come to accept that Alex is more suited to life on Mars then anyone else in Happy Valley. Alex will store the memory as an adventure with his crazy grandpa.

This season is dragging, do the asteroid capture/heist thing already!

Edited December 31, 2023 by marinw

[marinw]

I did like Sergei's era-correct car. My Mom once owned a Prius like that.

Gorgeous shot of Kelly and the Crater. Mars is so much more than Happy Valley.

Edited December 30, 2023 by marinw

[jcin617]

All I want to know is how Margo got away from her KGB handler and (most likely) hidden NSA or FBI monitor to meet up with Sergei…

I’m going to bet Kelly finds life on Mars, that seems like where her story is headed.

Edited December 31, 2023 by jcin617

[bigmag]

16 hours ago, marinw said:

Oh Sergei! Was his wife part of his original family or did he remarry and does this new wife not know about his past? She didn't have a Russian accent.

I wondered about that also.  I tried to listen closely for an accent and didn't think she had a Russian one.  Also, I may be misremembering, but I thought ealier in the series when he referred to his family being in danger he mentioned parents, and maybe aunt/uncle, but I didn't think he mentioned a wife. Does anyone remember if there was a mention of a wire earlier?

[jcin617]

6 hours ago, bigmag said:

 I tried to listen closely for an accent and didn't think she had a Russian one.

She had a vague upper Midwest accent, maybe Minnesotan.   They were living in Iowa, so she’s probably from the region.

[PurpleTentacle]

Who would have thought that all it would take for Ed and his grandson to bond was a little grand larceny and conspiracy to commit the grandest larceny ever in the history of mankind? It was weirdly sweet.

19 hours ago, marinw said:

I did like Sergei's era-correct car. My Mom once owned a Prius like that.

Except in the FAM-universe all new-ish cars should be fully electric by now. They say most oil workers have lost their jobs, due to cheap electricity from fusion, yet everything still seems to run on oil. How does that work?

10 hours ago, jcin617 said:

All I want to know is how Margo got away from her KGB handler and (most likely) hidden NSA or FBI monitor to meet up with Sergei…

I was wondering that, too. Apparently the writers don't bother with little things like logic and consistence anymore.

7 hours ago, bigmag said:

I wondered about that also.  I tried to listen closely for an accent and didn't think she had a Russian one.  Also, I may be misremembering, but I thought ealier in the series when he referred to his family being in danger he mentioned parents, and maybe aunt/uncle, but I didn't think he mentioned a wife. Does anyone remember if there was a mention of a wire earlier?

I'm pretty sure he was single and married to his work. Him and Margo were very similar in that way.

[CarpeFelis]

On 12/30/2023 at 9:36 AM, marinw said:

I did like Sergei's era-correct car. My Mom once owned a Prius like that.

But the cars in this series are more advanced than IRL. They already had electric cars well before we did. So an era-correct car is kind of disappointing to me.

I can’t wait to see what happens when Kelly finds out about Ed using Alex to steal from the secure storeroom!

15 hours ago, jcin617 said:

All I want to know is how Margo got away from her KGB handler and (most likely) hidden NSA or FBI monitor to meet up with Sergei…

I was wondering that too. Didn’t notice anyone keeping watch outside her hotel room door when she got room service, but it doesn’t make sense.

ETA: Was anyone else expecting Ed to shave the beard after Alex said he looked like a bear?

Edited December 31, 2023 by CarpeFelis

[marinw]

1 hour ago, CarpeFelis said:

On 12/30/2023 at 1:36 PM, marinw said:

 

But the cars in this series are more advanced than IRL. They already had electric cars well before we did. So an era-correct car is kind of disappointing to me.

Contrary to popular belief, Apple shows do not have an unlimited budget, a point that was frequently brought of in the official Foundation podcast. I would imagine that cars of the 00’s FAMverse would look different and even the car companies themselves could be different thanks to the  butterfly effect. But this is not what Apple+ chose to spend money on. I do wonder if the FAMverse cars of the era would be primarily little sedans or huge SUVs and pickups. Probably some of each. It’s been suggested that the rise in large car sales starting in our own 00’s and continuing until now was, in part, a reaction to 9/11. Would this trend had been as extreme without 9/11? The mind boggles!

Edited December 31, 2023 by marinw

[marinw]

So much love and respect for Sergei. I liked how he reminded Aleida that she owes her career to Margo. He doesn’t do this to make Aleida feel guilty (I think) but rather to offer perspective.

Edited January 1 by marinw

[marinw]

Now that I think about it, having Alex steal the Discriminator is kind of genius: you can’t charge a seven year old with a felony. At least on Earth, Mars law has yet to be written.

Edited January 4 by marinw

[ofmd]

re: Sergej being married... I definitely remember the Forbiden Love Through The Years Elevator Montage made a point of showing his wedding band.

[PurpleTentacle]

14 hours ago, marinw said:

Contrary to popular belief, Apple shows do not have an unlimited budget, a point that was frequently brought of in the official Foundation podcast. I would imagine that cars of the 00’s FAMverse would look different and even the car companies themselves could be different thanks to the  butterfly effect. But this is not what Apple+ chose to spend money on.

The premise is that cars are more advanced than in our universe by ~20 years, with the addition that all new cars should have been electric for a while, because electricity has been dirt cheap for a few decades now. So just get a few 2020 electric cars, put those on the road, done. What can be cheaper than that? I really don't think this is a budget problem. It strikes me as very lazy writing.

Could you then argue, that it doesn't match the design of the times? Sure. But how would we know how esthetic sensibilities would have changed in the FAM universe with the more rapidly advancing technology? But even if you think that the look is anachronistic, it's still better than having whole storylines revolving around how most oil workers are out of a job (the terrorists last season / Miles this season) and then still have gas guzzlers everywhere.

14 hours ago, marinw said:

I do wonder if the FAMverse cars of the era would be primarily little sedans or huge SUVs and pickups. Probably some of each. It’s been suggested that the rise in large car sales starting in our own 00’s and continuing until now was, in part, a reaction to 9/11. Would this trend had been as extreme without 9/11? The mind boggles!

That might have been suggested, but I doubt it. In the US it originally started because regulations are less strict for "light trucks", so pickups and SUVs can be less safe and emit more emissions. You might remember the VW emissions scandal. What most people don't know is that basically every company was cheating with their emissions. VW were just the first caught. Trucks and SUVs are an easy way to legally circumvent these standards.

But once car companies figured out that they could get bigger margins out of these cars, they pumped a ton of money into marketing and also made them big in europe, which doesn't have a 9/11 trauma.

[Dev F]

19 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

The premise is that cars are more advanced than in our universe by ~20 years, with the addition that all new cars should have been electric for a while, because electricity has been dirt cheap for a few decades now. So just get a few 2020 electric cars, put those on the road, done. What can be cheaper than that? I really don't think this is a budget problem. It strikes me as very lazy writing.

But then what would the writers do to show subsequent progress and changes in design preferences in future seasons? They can't just show current electric cars in 2003 and then have them remain exactly the same for twenty years, and they're not going to have any more leeway, budget-wise, to start filling the streets with more evolved fictional electric cars in season 5!

Even beyond the motor vehicles, the scope of changes to the timeline probably should've altered the culture much more significantly than we've seen, leading to all-new fashions, musical trends, news events, etc. But the only way you can make a show like this on a streaming TV budget and schedule is to treat a lot of the background details the same way you would in a standard period piece. And I'm not even sure the show would have the same appeal if the writers cared more about extrapolating a probable alternate history than tweaking the history we all know in clever or insightful ways.

Edited January 2 by Dev F

[PurpleTentacle]

2 hours ago, Dev F said:

But then what would the writers do to show subsequent progress and changes in design preferences in future seasons? They can't just show current electric cars in 2003 and then have them remain exactly the same for twenty years, and they're not going to have any more leeway, budget-wise, to start filling the streets with more evolved fictional electric cars in season 5!

They can worry about that when it happens. Right now they should have worried about their current season making sense.

Even if cars just stagnate in the future of the show, we could handwave that with "well cars are as good as they were going to get, so they won't change much". That isn't terribly realistic, but it's still better than what we have now.

2 hours ago, Dev F said:

Even beyond the motor vehicles, the scope of changes to the timeline probably should've altered the culture much more significantly than we've seen, leading to all-new fashions, musical trends, news events, etc. But the only way you can make a show like this on a streaming TV budget and schedule is to treat a lot of the background details the same way you would in a standard period piece. And I'm not even sure the show would have the same appeal if the writers cared more about extrapolating a probable alternate history than tweaking the history we all know in clever or insightful ways.

But it's not background detail. They had two major storylines rely on the fact that oil workers are out of a job. I agree that you can't possibly know how culture would have shifted, which is why I'm not complaining that they largely keep it the same (though they did change some things like gay people getting mainstream acceptance much earlier), but you can't just have a terrorist group bombing NASA, because they got laid off from their oil jobs, then have oil workers go to Mars, because they can't find any other work and then just not deal with the other consequences of these circumstances.

[marinw]

We can partially  handwave the whole car issue by looking at our own timeline: many electric cars look a lot like their ICE counterparts unless you look closely. It's also possible that in the FAM timeline people figured out how to swap out engines for batteries in the existing car inventory. I'm personally more interested in how other transportation would look in the FAMverse: Are the airplanes electric now? Is the US covered with high-speed rail? Are there electric ships on the oceans?

As @PurpleTentacle suggested, technology advances in one area do not equal advancement in another, some things just stagnate. The technology used in the FAMverse's plasma drive Mars Ships may not trickle down to the majority of Earth, or it not distributed evenly. A billionaire like Dev may have some super advanced electric car, a high school teacher like Sergei wouldn't

 

Edited January 2 by marinw

[BetyBee]

This episode was an improvement over Crossing the Line. But these writers handwave/yadda yadda over anything too complicated or difficult to explain. I mean how did Margo get away from her handlers? Last week we were left to wonder how all of the injured burn victims got safely back to the main ship. This week, there was no mention of the injured and the dead. And there was little ill will to the strikers who caused the explosion. I don't really care whether the astroid capture works or not. I just hope they don't kill off Kelly or Dani. I would like to see nasty Ed die a hero's death, thereby enshrining his legacy. 

[marinw]

5 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

This week, there was no mention of the injured and the dead

IIRC, there was one guy who looked like his forehead was recovering from a burn.

[PurpleTentacle]

2 hours ago, marinw said:

We can partially  handwave the whole car issue by looking at our own timeline: many electric cars look a lot like their ICE counterparts unless you look closely.

At least with Miles's car we heard an engine noise. I could have fanwanked it as a conversion if they had just taken that out or never put it in (depending on if they actually filmed with sound or added it in post).

And Sergei's Prius has a tail pipe...

2 hours ago, marinw said:

A billionaire like Dev may have some super advanced electric car, a high school teacher like Sergei wouldn't

But he'd still have an electric car.

1 hour ago, BetyBee said:

This episode was an improvement over Crossing the Line. But these writers handwave/yadda yadda over anything too complicated or difficult to explain. I mean how did Margo get away from her handlers? Last week we were left to wonder how all of the injured burn victims got safely back to the main ship. This week, there was no mention of the injured and the dead. And there was little ill will to the strikers who caused the explosion.

Exactly. This show used to be tight on the science and the consequences of things that happened. Since the beginning of season 3 it seems like the writers lost interest in anything but maybe character development.

It's just frustrating when a show falls off like that. If it starts crappy (in certain areas) you don't expect anything else, but when it starts great and then goes down hill, that hurts.

[CarpeFelis]

13 hours ago, Dev F said:

But then what would the writers do to show subsequent progress and changes in design preferences in future seasons? They can't just show current electric cars in 2003 and then have them remain exactly the same for twenty years, and they're not going to have any more leeway, budget-wise, to start filling the streets with more evolved fictional electric cars in season 5!

Black Mirror managed to create futuristic looking cars, why not this show?

[Haleth]

On 12/29/2023 at 5:28 AM, ofmd said:

. An assassination would just be a thing this show pulls off. And I wonder if they will do away with all the old characters - Ed, Danni, and Margo - by the end of the season.

I’m guessing they’ll get hit by an out of control asteroid.

On 12/30/2023 at 7:54 AM, marinw said:

Alex will store the memory as an adventure with his crazy grandpa.

Until he gets hit by an asteroid.

On 12/30/2023 at 9:19 PM, jcin617 said:

m going to bet Kelly finds life on Mars, that seems like where her story is headed

Ditto asteroid.

On 12/31/2023 at 12:43 PM, CarpeFelis said:

TA: Was anyone else expecting Ed to shave the beard after Alex said he looked like a bear?

Hope he shaves it before he gets hit by the asteroid.

You know there will be a screw up when the Gang that Couldn’t Shoot Straight replaces the NASA approved machine with their bandaids and rubber bands. The asteroid will either end up headed to Earth or slamming into Mars. 

[marinw]

9 minutes ago, Haleth said:

You know there will be a screw up when the Gang that Couldn’t Shoot Straight replaces the NASA approved machine with their bandaids and rubber bands

Operation “This will end badly” is go.

[PurpleTentacle]

13 hours ago, Haleth said:

The asteroid will either end up headed to Earth or slamming into Mars. 

I could even see it slamming into earth. As they said, this episode, if you change the trajectory a little it will head to earth and enter its orbit, if you change it a lot, it will enter Mars orbit (I still doubt you could slow it down enough for it to not just slingshot around, but we'll go with it). Now, what heppens when you split the difference, because somebody tried to put it into Mars orbit, but got interrupted? Yup, it could totally slam into earth.

[Dev F]

1 hour ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I could even see it slamming into earth. As they said, this episode, if you change the trajectory a little it will head to earth and enter its orbit, if you change it a lot, it will enter Mars orbit (I still doubt you could slow it down enough for it to not just slingshot around, but we'll go with it). Now, what heppens when you split the difference, because somebody tried to put it into Mars orbit, but got interrupted? Yup, it could totally slam into earth.

Yeah, initially I thought I had figured out the writers' plans for the end of the season when we learned about the timeline of the asteroid mission, which had the M-7 aiming to be ready to alter Goldilocks's course within a couple months after the July 2023 summit. I was thinking we might see part of the asteroid slam into New York City on September 11, 2003.

But then, of course, I realized that the asteroid would take more time than that to get to Earth after the mission fucked with its course, so that seems unlikely. But I still wonder if something 9/11-like is in the offing.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Spiro T. Agnew HS. That is hilarious.

Margo's return to the US freed Sergei from his self-imposed prison too, assuming he's not planning to return to Iowa and his wife.

Now Miles is running an "honorable" black market. Or he was until they shut him down.

Kelly didn't have any options besides leaving Alex with Ed?  Did she have no idea what kind of shape Ed is in or was she just willfully turning a blind eye?

Dev and Ed planning the space heist to end all space heists. I love it.

Good on Sergei for trying to plead Margo's case to Aleida. And good on Aleida for eventually becoming sympathetic to the cause.

Hah, Ed turning his grandson into a little thief. Yeah, Kelly would've killed Ed if Alex had gotten hurt or caught. Alex finally had fun with Poppy.

Decisions, decisions. Turn yourself into the feds for treason and possibly face the death penalty, or chance getting murdered by the KGB back in Russia once your usefulness has run out? Mars might start looking like the best option to Margo.

[Black Knight]

On 1/4/2024 at 2:00 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Margo's return to the US freed Sergei from his self-imposed prison too, assuming he's not planning to return to Iowa and his wife.

That actually didn't occur to me, that he wouldn't go back to his wife. Initially I thought he just wanted to see Margo in person and thank her for all she did for him and his family, then when he told her about Irina I thought it was also about that. It's just hard for me to see him actually leaving his wife. I've never thought of him as a cad at heart.

I kind of suspected when Aleida and Margo first reunited that her real anger with Margo was about her letting Aleida believe she was dead, and about her not being there to help Aleida through the trauma of the bombing. The theft of the engine design and the defection to Russia were just the safer reasons to express. Part of Aleida will always be that teenage girl who had lost her mother and wanted Margo to take her in and be a mother to her, and was denied. And then Margo came looking for her years later, and gave her the job, and although Aleida never said it outright, she felt she finally had what she wanted. Margo had a title of honorary aunt with her son, and she wouldn't take the Helios job when Karen offered it because it would have meant leaving Margo. I'm glad Sergei explained to Aleida how it would have been impossible for Margo to reach out.

Ed and Dev's plot has such a feeling of impending disaster, and the thing is, Ed can't say he didn't get plenty of ominous signs. There was the death and multiple injuries that came about because of the strike, then he thinks he hears something come crashing down on his grandson, whom he put in that situation. I suppose he'll finally come to his senses once the asteroid gets knocked onto a Very Bad Path, whether that's Earth or the spot on Mars that Kelly is currently in. The good news is that I feel like we should soon be getting the kind of awesome space action that the first three seasons had and this one has been short on so far. I grant it's hard to top strapping a pregnant woman to the outside of a spacecraft and launching her off a planet...

[AnnieBananie]

On 12/31/2023 at 12:43 PM, CarpeFelis said:

ETA: Was anyone else expecting Ed to shave the beard after Alex said he looked like a bear?

Yes! I'm so distracted by Joel Kinnaman's terrible aging makeup. Please, shave it off!