All Episodes Talk: Utopia (US)

[DeLurker]

This show is making me a worse person.  I want their mike collars to be interactive so that if the viewing audience thinks they are being a dick, they can press a key and shock them.  They could set it up so if enough people keyed a shock button, then the Tope would get a shock so it isn't a one to one ratio.

 

I've put way too much thought into this for someone who is close to being a pacifist.  Never spanked my kids and would never use a shock collar on a pet, but somehow I think it is a good idea for the Topes.  Oy vey.

[clod]

 I want their mike collars to be interactive so that if the viewing audience thinks they are being a dick, they can press a key and shock them. 

 

thanks for reminding me of this old Cheers bit.

 

[DeLurker]

clod - Awesome!  And totally appropro!

[CorgiNarnia]

Do they really have to figure out their own taxes and sort out all that paperwork and rules? I feel like that is just adding excessive complication to the whole money situation.

 

As capitalist as I am, I don't think Utopia should be structured like a mini-country, with each person getting separate paychecks, etc. It doesn't seem to work and they're spending a lot of time sorting this out instead of working like they should. I feel like it should just function as a family, with people doing both chores and creating businesses that make money but with all money going back into one fund and each person allotted an allowance of the same amount per person each week. They shouldn't have to worry about taxes at all. Production can just pay it at the end of the year, right? We don't want to see a bunch of boring stuff like people doing accounting! They will still be competitive! I'm sure some will take pride in that they provided for the group in whatever way they did, if it helped improve the garden or made money for the group which can be used to purchase needed supplies.

 

I would also suggest to Production: no Amazon, no ordering prepared foods (like frozen pizzas, ugh)- only ingredients, and they shouldn't be allowed to call so many outside businesses directly. They should receive a price list for groceries that is filtered through production and can only order what's on it. All this online contact they are doing is taking away from "Utopia."

[whack-a-mole]

So now they're doing taxes. Does anybody over there have any idea how to make television? I'm trying to come up with something more boring and I'm struggling. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

So now they're doing taxes. Does anybody over there have any idea how to make television? I'm trying to come up with something more boring and I'm struggling.

 

There's nothing more fun than watching a group of really unlikeable people bicker/fight/argue while slowing being starved by a Shadychef -- than watching that same group of people do their taxes. </snark>

Edited October 6, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[clod]

is that taxes for the real GOV, or utopia taxes, where the taxes are collected and spent by the utopian leaders?

[whack-a-mole]

is that taxes for the real GOV, or utopia taxes, where the taxes are collected and spent by the utopian leaders?

Does it even matter when we're trying to watch these people do math?

[mmal]

So now they're doing taxes. Does anybody over there have any idea how to make television? I'm trying to come up with something more boring and I'm struggling.

Who doesn't enjoy coming home from a long day of work, and sitting down to watch people stare at a computer, have endless meetings, and push pencils for most of the time? That's Jon Kroll's idea for Super Bowl-level ratings. Edited October 7, 2014 by mmal

[whack-a-mole]

Who doesn't enjoy coming home from a long day of work, and sitting down to watch people stare at a computer, have endless meetings, and push pencils for most of the time? That's Jon Kroll's idea for Super Bowl-level ratings.

I guess it could cure insomnia.

[Kobo Duram]

Did everyone see Mike's new venture on the website?

 

He is taking digital pictures, watermarking them, and then selling them for $5.   If you order, you get emailed a copy without the watermark.  So far I see one of Dedeker and one of him with a chicken and a cow on his shoulders.

 

I wonder whether people would honestly buy these.  That issue aside, ideas like this are a good way for your family to syphon you money, to some extent.   Anyone he knows could work out buying a few of those in order to infuse cash into Utopia.  The general fund would get a lot of the money, but Mike would get his percentage, and some good will of the commune would be directed his way.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Did everyone see Mike's new venture on the website?

 

He is taking digital pictures, watermarking them, and then selling them for $5.   If you order, you get emailed a copy without the watermark.  So far I see one of Dedeker and one of him with a chicken and a cow on his shoulders.

 

If you can call shitty photoshopping skills 'art', sure why not ?  Mike's an 'artist'.  You would think that with all the free time they have he could have got a shot without Rob in the background.  Why would anyone pay for that picture of Dedeker when the photos on her own website are far superior -- and free to download without a watermark.  Mike's just a lazy idiot.

[Irritable]

I feel so very alone, but I love this show.  If I actually cared whether or not this experiment turned out to be a success, then I probably wouldn't enjoy it just due to the frustration of watching them fail so miserably and spectacularly at everything, but since I don't care at all, I'm having fun watching all the nutso behavior.  15 sane, normal people with strong skillsets are not going to want to leave their real lives for a year to do this, so I'm okay with it being mostly a big pack of idiot misfits.  I really hope the show lasts the full year!  I actually even like some of them.  Maybe I'm an idiot misfit, too, and I'm just as self-unaware about it as the people in Utopia.  However, I would never sign up for this experience for myriad reasons, not the least of which being that they are swarmed and covered with bugs constantly, and I could not handle that.  A fly gets in my house and my entire life's mission becomes killing it, because one fly is too many.   Having to stand around doing things like voting in a room where 3 flies could just shoot straight into your mouth when you try to talk?  Yeah...that's a big NO for me.

[hincandenza]

You shouldn't feel bad or alone for liking the show!  I'm sorry to hear you say that you feel kind of alone in unabashedly enjoying this.

 

Honestly, even those of us badmouthing it are at least bitterly reveling in the experience of having something to snark on. :)  Back in the day, I stopped watching "Lost" after the first 6 episodes of season 3, but stuck around the great TWOP "Bitterness Fiesta" board for a good couple of months, just to engage in the cranky snark marathons.  If you want to like this show, and wish it stayed on the air, then please do so!  I will not think one bit less of you because of this.

 

If I can try to explain where at least I am coming from, it's not the cast per se (mostly, excepting a couple of genuine scary head cases), but the cast on this show.  If they wanted "idiot misfits" all stuck in the same place, we kind of already had that with Big Brother and Survivor, both of which are still going strong enough to stay on the air.  I know that sometimes it can be super fun to watch dumb people be dumb on TV!

 

This show as it turns out is just like those- with the usual backstabbing, plotting, scheming competitive reality show- but which was originally advertised as this "grand social experiment".  Not only is there no actual prize of any kind to being here or "outlasting" people, and thus no good reason for everyone on the show to be this catty and selfish, but the rules are changing constantly, money is this vague undefined thing that never seems to run out but is always being argued about, and the producers intervene heavily and visibly despite their promises that this would be isolated and pure.  We just get 15 or so incredibly lazy people sitting around all day, literally stinking up the joint having not bathed in ages, and playing at middle-school level bullying and cliquish behavior... for literally no good reason I can figure out.  They aren't going to win anything!

 

At least for me, that's been my problem: if it was just an outdoor Big Brother all along, or a Survivor-like hybrid where people were competing for something, I personally might never have watched, while other viewers like yourself would have eaten that up with a spoon, and have a blast doing so!  But it feels like such a missed opportunity for a really fascinating show, and the result is both frustrating to see crash and burn, as well as entertaining to just pile on every stupid mistake the producers and cast make in these here forums.

 

I guess it's best explained like watching movies. People go to see big budget loud shiny blockbuster action movies, and no one gets pissed off when they walk out of a Michael Bay movie thinking "Ugh, the plot and acting was so terrible!", because we all knew that perfectly well when getting our ticket.  And it sounds like you're watching this show the way I'll probably eventually end up seeing whatever the latest Transformers abomination movie was, when it shows up on cable for free; it's stupid, but it's fun, and mostly harmless.  I'm sure I'll be incredibly stoned at the time when I do, too. :)

 

But if you go see a movie by an auteur, someone who you respect for making interesting, challenging, thought-provoking movies, and you instead see this indulgent, murky film that just flops and dies on screen?  You might actually get upset.  It's silly, but we're far harsher critics of those things we had high hopes for, than the things that we pre-sorted as harmless, mindless diversions.

 

[Irritable]

That makes perfect sense, hincandenza, and I very much appreciate your insight.  I came over to watching this show a bit late, but I needed something to fill the void after snarking hard and heavily on Big Brother all summer.  When it comes to reality TV, I guess I just keep my expectations really, really, r e a l l y low, so even though this particular pack of people are indeed wasting what might have been a very interesting opportunity to do something different and worthwhile, I've come to expect everyone on reality TV these days to just make an ass of themselves, instead of shocking and delighting me with their intelligence, charm and well-rounded life philosophies.  These days I watch documentaries for my dose of "real", and reality TV just to make me feel good about myself.

 

I think for me to continue enjoying this show, though, I will probably have to avoid reading what happens in the live feeds.  By this point on the aired show, I still thought Aaron was kind of an all right guy, but apparently he is a hideous person.  During Big Brother, I found myself getting just a wee bit too angry about things that Frankie said and did which never made it to air, and it took away some of my enjoyment of the show overall.  My disgust for Frankie was enormous, nearly overwhelming.  I don't want to feel that way again with this show, although if animals suffer or come to further harm I will have to peace out.  I know one chicken died already, and I didn't like it but understand these things do happen sometimes.  But when I saw that Bri was rationing grain for the pregnant cow, I got pretty pissed.  Like, Red-stomping-on-cans-of-pineapple pissed. 

[clod]

But if you go see a movie by an auteur, someone who you respect for making interesting, challenging, thought-provoking movies, and you instead see this indulgent, murky film that just flops and dies on screen?  You might actually get upset. 

 

 

thanks for reminding me.  

 

 

so there I was with my date, and we walked up to the theater and looked at our choices (what was playing).   hey,  a Woody Allen movie.   "Interiors"     haven't heard anything about it.  want to see that one?

 

movie starts.   half hour goes by....

 

sure.   ok.

 

hmmmmm.

 

awkward.

 

people leaving during the film.

 

"do you want to stay till the end?"

[Etta Place]

I feel so very alone, but I love this show.  If I actually cared whether or not this experiment turned out to be a success, then I probably wouldn't enjoy it just due to the frustration of watching them fail so miserably and spectacularly at everything, but since I don't care at all, I'm having fun watching all the nutso behavior.  15 sane, normal people with strong skillsets are not going to want to leave their real lives for a year to do this, so I'm okay with it being mostly a big pack of idiot misfits.  I really hope the show lasts the full year!  I actually even like some of them.  Maybe I'm an idiot misfit, too, and I'm just as self-unaware about it as the people in Utopia.  However, I would never sign up for this experience for myriad reasons, not the least of which being that they are swarmed and covered with bugs constantly, and I could not handle that.  A fly gets in my house and my entire life's mission becomes killing it, because one fly is too many.   Having to stand around doing things like voting in a room where 3 flies could just shoot straight into your mouth when you try to talk?  Yeah...that's a big NO for me.

My husband likes it. Or, I should say, he is fascinated. He has only seen the network version, but he hears me rant about the inmates from the live feed and he asks questions about what's going on. (I love it when I hear from the other room: "Okay, Utopia question:")

 

He thinks the producers are totally missing the boat because they have an amazing show that they're just not airing. I kind of agree - I would totally watch, shaking my head, if the show were more about the setup that was given (the tractor is only missing 2 things! The lake is stocked with fish! There's a bathtub!) and how the Dopes ignored all of that and instead set about pushing at other boundaries. (They wanted to earn money, so we said okay, but then they started spending it all on frozen pizzas! We had to cut off access to pre-made food! No one fished in the lake because it wasn't stocked with donuts so we had to treat the water! We had to take away access to their own website! etc.) The show about the unexpected cat-and-mouse game the producers end up playing to get the "pioneers" to do any of the things they were intended to do would be pretty awesome.

[Mediocrates]

The show about the unexpected cat-and-mouse game the producers end up playing to get the "pioneers" to do any of the things they were intended to do would be pretty awesome.

I almost think it would be much better of a show if the live feeds remained on the Utopians but the edited aired on TV version followed the production team dealing with all of the antics and their reactions. Now that's a show I would watch.

[whack-a-mole]

Sometimes I console myself that this show is such a fail that it's unlikely any of these idiots are going to be famous enough to get paid to attend a cell phone launch.

[DeLurker]

Not sure where this review of the cake should go: http://www.utopiatv.com/news/detail/1562/fly-cake-taste-testing-the-wreckage

[Etta Place]

I saw that yesterday, too, and wasn't sure where to post it either!

 

If only they'd edit their broadcast show with a slant more like that, they might have some ratings.

[riverheightsnancy]

Not sure where this review of the cake should go: http://www.utopiatv.com/news/detail/1562/fly-cake-taste-testing-the-wreckage

 

This review has almost made all the upset over the animals all these weeks worth it. Almost. Hilarious! I was wondering why we hadn't heard more about the cake and it's awful after effects! 

[DeLurker]

It's been evaluated as the latest greatest deadliest weapon of war.  They'll air drop into war zones and if being hit by it does not kill, ingestion will.

[marketdoctor]

Surrealism in that the BRITISH scripted drama of the same name was just cancelled.

This might get misreported (or not, as baseball accelerated the demise of other shows.)

I think when the axe comes, Fox will try to make it quiet, which would work for anyone with very limited contact with the outside world. Would they cancel the show and not tell the Utopians?

[hincandenza]

Surrealism in that the BRITISH scripted drama of the same name was just cancelled.

This might get misreported (or not, as baseball accelerated the demise of other shows.)

I think when the axe comes, Fox will try to make it quiet, which would work for anyone with very limited contact with the outside world. Would they cancel the show and not tell the Utopians?

 

It was in a sense misreported; I got all excited when someone mentioned here that they had seen a report on their local news affiliate... but yeah, that was the British show.  Like you said, this show was a flop, it won't even be much of a news story when it's formally cancelled.

 

I think our hive mind collective best guess has been that, barring some miracle, some huge shake-up where they evict half the cast and change the format dramatically and manage to get an uptick in ratings, this show will be put on "hiatus" at the start of the FOX broadcasting of the World Series near the end of this month, and then... never comes back.  A show like this, even if it was a ratings hit, you can't leave off the air for any long period of time without disrupting the whole thing.  FOX will have lined up something to replace that hour on Friday nights, so they'll just tell Utopia that they're off the air, and we don't even get a finale episode.

 

A scripted show is different since there's a several-week lead time on a scripted show.  For example, they told the producers of Arrested Development in the middle of shooting episode 9 of their third and final on-air season "You're being cut to 13 episodes instead of 22".  FOX did air several more episodes, up through that 9th episode, over the next few weeks.  Of course, they then sat on the final 4 for weeks until they aired them- I kid you not- as a two-hour block against the Olympics opening ceremony, because they are the kind of jerks that cancel great shows like "Firefly" or "Arrested Development" or "Futurama", among countless others.

 

But "Utopia" has a production lag time measured in a few days.  They could edit and air a Friday show, then the following Monday the word comes down "We will not be needing a show for this coming Friday", and that's that, at most one more episode would need to be edited together.  Perhaps they've already been told "We need ****** more episodes as filler before the World Series", and that process has begun. 

 

In either case, there's no reason to keep running Utopia even one day longer when there's no broadcast to produce.  I doubt there will be formal ending episode, and the bastards probably won't even leave the feeds up to let us watch the schadenfreude of the Myopians being told to pack their stuff and get the hell out.  What would the last show even entail, Dan Piraro narrating how "Utopia" had abysmal ratings and it's getting pulled, followed by wailing and gnashing of teeth of the famewhores?  That'd actually be interesting TV, but I doubt we ever see it.

Edited October 14, 2014 by hincandenza

[clod]

for sale:   five acres with barn.  has a  hundred buried power and fiber optic drops, fairly evenly distributed.  and a bell on a pole.    ideal for a drive-in movie theater.

chickens not included.

[mmal]

Even though the show could still be cancelled at any time, FOX did issue new press releases in the past few days announcing episodes for 10/31 and 11/7.

I'm still hoping for this fiasco to finally end because Kroll and company keep bringing in more and more sociopaths and sickos. It's hard to snark when creepy Cal keeps trying to brainwash Nikki into becoming his "Utopian candidate."

Did creepy Cal really talk about pimping out his wives to the other guys in order to get their support?

[backformore]

Would they cancel the show and not tell the Utopians?

 

That's been my dream all along.   The cameras stay, but nobody is watching.  The Utopians are let out after a year, thinking they are big time Reality TV stars, find out that they were on  a show that hardly anyone watched, and those who did, forgot all about it - because it was cancelled several months ago.

[backformore]

I'm pretty sure Pastor Jon is sounding like one of those people who are saying that Ebola = the plague that was prophesied, and that the end of the world is near. 

I had a crazy thought.  

I've written a few times that I want the show to be cancelled, production to walk away, and the Utopians not be told.  so they stay there, thinking the show is on the air, when NOBODY is watching it, because it's not being broadcast.

What if that DOES happen?  They lose contact with the outside world. The internet is cut off.  They think it's part of the "experience", that they are being tested.  Everyone is watching on TV to see how they handle this challenge.   but really - everyone went home, show is over, they've been abandoned.

 

So, The Utopians go on with their lives, believing they are on TV and becoming more famous, until they reach a point where the lack of contact with the outside world is starting to make them nervous..  and, finally,  they send a search party out to investigate.   There's nobody in production, the offices are empty, they can't find anyone.  Bella convinces them that this means that the "world"  has ended, and somehow, they are the only ones left.   Didn't pastor jon tell them something was happening?  they believe that they're all that's left.  the original "build a new society"  has now turned into "save the human race, you're all that's left."   They are convinced that the walls of Utopia have somehow protected them from whatever killed everyone else off, so they go back inside the gate. 

 

One day, far into the future, they venture outside the gates.  What do they find?   How do they interpret it, given their frame of reference that some plague has wiped out civilization as they knew it?   

Now THAT is a show I'd watch.    

 

(inspired by  Blast from the Past, a great movie)

Edited October 14, 2014 by backformore

[DeLurker]

It's become some weird hybrid of sleep away camp and prison, including a couple of  wrongly accused inmates.

[Mediocrates]

It's become some weird hybrid of sleep away camp and prison, including a couple of wrongly accused inmates.

This show has always given me a very Stanford Prison Project vibe.

[ProfCrash]

I wanted to like this show. I wanted it to be a more expensive version of the PBS House series where Americans or Brits were given a bit of history and set into a partially built colony, house, something along those lines and told to live their lives as the folks in the specific time period would. There was a fair amount of out of time period behavior that people whined about but the folks made it work. They worked the land, cared for the animals, built new structures, and lived their lives for three months. They were fun to watch.

 

I wanted Utopia to be something along those lines but better funded. Instead we got the silliness that FOX is giving us.

 

The show could have been interesting but they had to cast people who were really out there (Dave, Red, Bella, Aaron, Bri) who set the tone from day one. These were not folks interested in building a new society or making something work, I don't know why they wanted to be on the show but it was not to form a community. Dave cannot function in regular society, he was a four time felon who reminisced fondly about prison. Bella has admitted to being institutionalized on the feeds. Red has a temper and control issues. Aaron is the least clean cook I know of and seems to have some criminal instincts. Bri is not a vet and I doubt she is a vet tech. Toss in calm conversations about killing someone and you have a young woman who is unbalanced.

 

On top of awful casting, you have massive amounts of producer interference.

 

On top of awful casting and producer interference there is no way for folks to create their own society when they can call out for freaking pizza. The kids on Kid Nation were more isolated and on their own then the adults in Utopia.

 

Want this show to work? Boot the current cast, bring in people who think they are going on a PBS show (less fame whore wanna be potential). Do not allow outside communication or support. Set them up with a full garden ready for the season they are in, the gear to plant the gardens needed for the rest of the year, the animals that they need, the room to grow the food the animals need, some buildings and the tools to build more if they want. Can the electricity and indoor plumbing. Let's see what happens then. But the current format is awful and the people in it are objectionable.

[whack-a-mole]

Want this show to work? Boot the current cast, bring in people who think they are going on a PBS show (less fame whore wanna be potential). Do not allow outside communication or support. Set them up with a full garden ready for the season they are in, the gear to plant the gardens needed for the rest of the year, the animals that they need, the room to grow the food the animals need, some buildings and the tools to build more if they want. Can the electricity and indoor plumbing. Let's see what happens then. But the current format is awful and the people in it are objectionable.

At this point you also have to rename it and do a totally different marketing campaign. Viewers already sampled this mess. Most ran away or never even showed up. It has too much baggage to rise from the dead.

Edited October 14, 2014 by whack-a-mole

[In Pog Form]

Even though the show could still be cancelled at any time, FOX did issue new press releases in the past few days announcing episodes for 10/31 and 11/7.

Wha? Isn't 11/7 supposed to be when MasterChef Junior is starting?

Don't tell me that Aaron will be cooking the children. He'll never get it right - he'll totally overcook them and they'll be all dry and stringy. It would be such a waste of all that stunning free-range child meat.

Edited October 15, 2014 by In Pog Form

[ProfCrash]

MasterChef Junior is starting on Nov 4th according to the website

[DeLurker]

 

It would be such a waste of all that stunning free-range child meat.

Eh.  The amount of preservatives, steroids and hormones in today's food really makes it hard to find a good one.

 

 

very Stanford Prison Project

I read about that years and years ago, but it does strike close to Utopia.  Of course, the Stanford Prison Project started with subjects that fit a more normal mental and emotional health balance than the Topes (at least I hope so).

 

I just realized that none of the Topes are from Florida.  As a former Floridian, I am perversely proud that Florida almost always wins when it comes to nutjobs per capita and just general bizarreness.  How can they cast a show of this insanity and overlook Florida?

[In Pog Form]

Eh.  The amount of preservatives, steroids and hormones in today's food really makes it hard to find a good one.

And all the fluoride in the water they were raised on.

 

How can they cast a show of this insanity and overlook Florida?

Never go full-Florida.

[whack-a-mole]

So, bets on today's reason we would poop the pants if only producer man wasn't busy getting his ass handed to him?

 

ETA: Aaron's cooking is the free space on this bingo card.

Edited October 16, 2014 by whack-a-mole

[BusyOctober]

From the New York Post today (Grading the Fall TV shows)

 

Under the "F" category:

The Fox reality show “Utopia” is this year’s first stinker. So wretched, the show has been moved to the most funereal night of the week: Friday, where it can die a quiet death.

 

Do I hear the bells tolling for thee, Kroll?

[clod]

how do the Utes do their laundry?    I don't recall this being discussed.

 

does anyone have links to pics or videos of Dede's soapmaking?

 

what happened to Red's hillbilly wine?

Edited October 23, 2014 by clod

[ProfCrash]

It looks like they wash stuff in the lake

[Mediocrates]

how do the Utes do their laundry? I don't recall this being discussed.

Amanda does laundry with soap and a plunger. She also charges the others $2 to do their laundry as a way of making money.

[CaptainCurmudgeon]

What a great set up this show is for the producers.  They have a fantastic laboratory going to find out how reality shows really work.

 

• Low ratings?  That's actually good.  You can make changes to the show and they will be reflected in upticks that would be lost in the noise of higher ratings.

 

• As Koll explained, since there's no prize, they can change rules to their hearts' content since "contestants" can't be suing them later, claiming some arbitrary rule change cost them the prize.  No prize, no harm, no successful lawsuit.

 

• No one really seems to know what the contracts with the players contain.  But they will probably appear in law schools later as example masterpieces, the most significant and one-sided contracts since schools started giving athletic "scholarships."

 

• Precisely measured focus groups.  Everyone who votes has to have a "passport" and vote on the site.  So, they know when someone votes if they've been watching the feeds or not and how much and what they've posted on the site as well.

 

• If they want to bother, they can easily link posters on independent sites like previously.tv to passport holders via IP addresses.  Might have to send or hire a mole but forum software tends to put the IP addresses in the database along with the postings.

 

• Cancelled by FOX?  Move to cable, where this show would shine like cubic zirconium in a junkyard of broken glass. If you want to see cheesy "reality" shows, that's the place to go.

 

• And periodically, they can cook up a controlled experiment in the form of two "Newtopians" to spring on the Topes and the audience.

 

 

Think it's not happening?  This show is testing every known ratings booster: nudity, sex, cute animals, wedding, birth, birth of cute animals.

 

Death? I hope they're not going to be killing off Topes to see what that does, although the frequent opportunities to get rid of them serves much the same purpose.

 

And they're keeping the return of Mike in their pocket to see how that plays at some later date.  (I mean it writes itself: bring in the beekeeper and he and Dede hook up; enter Mike.)

[whack-a-mole]

I'll miss all of you. Everybody here was the best part of this.

[pennben]

 

What a great set up this show is for the producers.  They have a fantastic laboratory going to find out how reality shows really work.........

 

Think it's not happening?

 

It is not happening.

[riverheightsnancy]

Yup, it has been great chatting with you all. But I am glad, because the horrible actions of some of the Topes made it impossible to like the show. 

[CaptainCurmudgeon]

Yup, it has been great chatting with you all. But I am glad, because the horrible actions of some of the Topes made it impossible to like the show. 

Too true.  I think Ernesto is the only unsullied person left.

[riverheightsnancy]

Yes. If you see some of the websites about ShadyChef, people have taken real offense to his lies about his military service and have analyzed his every utterance to disprove his constant lies about his military background. They have even sourced his Facebook and other public information about him and cross-referenced it.  He has pissed off a lot of veterans and military families (not that I blame them at all). 

[CaptainCurmudgeon]

Yes. If you see some of the websites about ShadyChef, people have taken real offense ..

He might do well to see if he can stay in the compound the whole year while things cool off.

Edited November 2, 2014 by CaptainCurmudgeon

[piewarmer]

So who won the pool? There must have been a cancellation pool, right?