S00.E164: The Church On Ruby Road

[Llywela]

My ideal has always been overlapping companions, picked up from different places/periods at different times - which was what I thought we were getting way back in the first season of the revival, first with Adam and then with Captain Jack, before both got discarded along the way.

There were always multiple companions at the very start of the show, all through the 60s and into the 70s. I think the idea of the solo female companion came from characters like Jo and Sarah (although both were also part of the larger UNIT cast) and then Leela and Romana. But multiple was almost always the norm in the Classic era. New Who has reversed that trend, occasionally dabbling in multiple companions, but mostly defaulting to the solo female - even when there has been more than one companion on board, the one young woman is always seen as the primary companion, with the others being less important and not really seen as counting. Just see how many people primarily list the modern companions as Rose, Martha, Donna, Amy, Clara, Bill and so on, completely ignoring the existence of Mickey, Jack, Rory and Nardole. Even with Thirteen's 'fam', Yaz was always the primary, with the menfolk largely seen by fandom as also-rans.

So yeah, I like Ruby, but I would love to have a second companion alongside her, someone picked up from another place and time entirely, and who is portrayed as being every bit as important as Ruby is.

Edited January 2 by Llywela

[John Potts]

OK, this was just fun - just the sort of thing I want to see on Christmas Day (baby eating being particularly festive!). You could really see where that Disney money went with the whole song-and-dance act featuring hundreds of puppets (no making do with spray painted green bubble wrap any more, I guess).

Anita Dobson (“Get Outta my Pub!”) seemed to know what was going on. Or she’s just seen all the previous Christmases in London (that haven’t since be retconned) and just expects weirdness to happen.

On 12/26/2023 at 1:30 AM, Starchild said:

Isn't she also married to Queen guitarist (and astrophysicist) Brian May?

Yes. At least, probably. With celebrity relationships, I frequently find I'm two partners out.

I'm guessing  "Who left Baby Ruby?" is going to be the Season's over-arching mystery. My first thought was that it was going to turn out to be Ruby herself and then that it might turn out to be Jodie Whitaker's Doctor (so it's probably neither of those!).

[j5cochran]

On 12/25/2023 at 3:49 PM, Llywela said:

. . . And Davina McCall! My whole family sat there going, "Are they going to kill off Davina McCall on Doctor Who on Christmas Day?!?!" But do overseas viewers know who Davina McCall is? (Answer: TV presenter, very well known in these parts, well on her way toward national treasure status)

. . . 

This American knows Davina McCall from an episode of the British radio comedy Cabin Pressure. She wasn't a guest star; she was used as an example of a "person who isn't evil but has an evil-sounding name". Imagine her name said in a dripping-with-evil, moustache-twirling voice by Roger Allam, the original Inspector Javert from Les Miserables in the West End of London.

Maybe you just had to be there....

[Meredith Quill]

7 hours ago, Llywela said:

There were plenty of companions in the Classic series who weren't contemporary humans. There were times when there were no contemporary humans in the TARDIS at all. We had companions from the past, companions from the future, companions from other planets, and audiences managed to relate to them all just fine - some of them rank among the most popular companions ever, in fact. This belief that the companion must always be a contemporary human in order to be relatable is very much a New Who thing. What matters is who the character is and how they are written. Audiences are capable of relating to just about any fictional character, if they are written right.

As for them usually (but not always) being British, or at least played by British actors, yes, that is because it is a British show. Just as US sci fi shows almost always have primarily American casts. That's just how the industry works. A show made in a particular country will always primarily employ actors from that country, even if the show is set in space, that's just logistics. There have been exceptions on Doctor Who, though. Captain Jack, for one. The 80s companion Peri was another - the actress was British but the character was American.

My biggest bugbear, mind, is that the show has been made in Wales for almost two decades at this point, yet has never had a Welsh regular character - even Welsh guest characters have been vanishingly rare.

I was referring to NuWho, not classic Who because that's what was, not what is. The past is a different country and all that. As for what audiences are capable of relating to - I agree - however, I was pointing out why they do what they do, rather than what they could or should do or even what they once did or didn't do. More often than not, contemporary writers tend to go for the obvious and lazy 'whatever is easiest' choices re relatability (per my previous post) as we have witnessed again and again on NuWho.

Re nationalities, it may be worth making your view known to BBC Wales (I believe they produce DW don't they?). I have a crappy memory sometimes, have there been many Irish or Scottish companions/characters? I know DT is Scottish but obviously he used an English accent in the role. Then we had Gwen & her hubby who were Welsh in Torchwood. Those are the ones that come to mind off the top of my head.

Yes, the female always tends to be the 'primary' companion who the Doctor bonds most closely with. I must say though that Captain Jack has always been one of my favs and I enjoyed Rory also. Mickey was okay, I preferred the character after he cut himself loose from Rose, and Nardole was amusing but quite forgettable imo overall. As for Adam, for me he was never companion material, he was presented as cautionary tale of what a companion shouldn't be, an 'anti-companion' if you will, heh.

6 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I don't really care that much, but early 20 something women as companions aren't really relatable for me. I'm not the target demo too. I thought Ruby was fine though. The only character trait that turns me off is Mary Sue. 

They could add a second companion that's not contemporary too. We've had multiple companions as recently as Thirteen. 

They're not my relatable demo either, which is why I've enjoyed Donna and others who weren't in the 'pretty young women/male gaze' category so much more. But I suppose I'm no longer part of the target demo they're trying to attract... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[DanaK]

7-day rating: 7.49 million viewers. 3rd for the week, behind New Year fireworks show and Call the Midwife special

[sharifa70]

I’ve seen a lot of comparisons to Mos Eisley cantina for the song & dance number, but all I could think of (after “what the hell am I watching?”) was Labyrinth. “You remind me of the babe….”

I liked this episode a lot and am looking forward to Fifteen’s adventures!

[waving feather]

I'm glad to have RTD back. Yes, he can be problematic and annoying in some of his characterisation but he knows how to bring the magic of Doctor Who and the Doctor. I may be biased though because I started with New Who and 9th and 10th runs were my favorites.

[ajsnaves]

Something I just noticed on a rewatch. All the exterior doors on Ruby’s building are blue. But Mrs. Flood’s door is exactly TARDIS Blue. (At least current TARDIS Blue.) it’s just subtly different it seems. 

[tv-talk]

Quote

since so many of the companions fall in love with the Doctor and by the time Yaz showed up I was sick of it.

Could be offbase here but I thought that little dance scene with the new Doctor was meant to show him as gay. And that way he and Ruby can stare into each other's eyes as much as RTD wants, have all sorts of deep emotional moments, etc, etc without there ever being a kiss or love interest situation.

 

As to that, cant say I like the Doctor having any sexuality at all but that is just me- a codger from Classic Who.

Overall I am excited to see the 15th, he seems to have great potential in the role and I'm looking forward to watching last night's ep.

[Sailorgirl26]

4 hours ago, tv-talk said:

Could be offbase here but I thought that little dance scene with the new Doctor was meant to show him as gay.

In what way? Not sure how you take a dance scene as definitive of someone's sexuality. If anything, it reinforces that "The Doctor Dances" as we found out in the Eccleston era.  

The Doctor has always been sexually fluid. There seems to be a lot of emphasis on defining the Doctor by his sexuality this time because Ncuti is openly gay.  

And this is ultimately still and always a kid's show, so the only ones focusing heavily on the Doctor's sexuality are adults.

The world would generally be a better place if everyone stopped worrying about everyone else's sexuality and just live and let live.

Who CARES if the Doctor -- or anyone -- is gay, CIS, black, white, male, female, trans? 

[supposebly]

2 hours ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

Who CARES if the Doctor -- or anyone -- is gay, CIS, black, white, male, female, trans? 

Apparently, a lot of people. It will need hopefully just one more generation for this to become a non-issue. Kids growing up with this doctor may help.

[tv-talk]

4 hours ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

There seems to be a lot of emphasis on defining the Doctor by his sexuality this time because Ncuti is openly gay.  

I actually had no idea about that, am not familiar with the actor and am just catching up to all the 60th Anniversary events now. However it was beyond obvious that the character in the club dancing with men was supposed to be gay or bi. Which like I said, imo, will allow for all the emotional stuff between he and Ruby without the tiresome undercurrent of romance between the Doctor and the pretty young companion that has been on the nose in NuWho. 

[Mod-Tigerkatze]

Hi everyone,

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[Affogato]

I watched this over again, did a small rewatch while recovering from a terrible vaccination reaction (sick for three days, every time). The doctor’s facial expressions watching the baby dropped off and the figure walking away, very many emotions, very fast. I couldn’t tell if he recognised the figure or not.

[DoctorAtomic]

She's got to be the old woman, right?

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

She's got to be the old woman, right?

Could even be his granddaughter Susan, but why drop Ruby off? Is it the time node or the person?

[call me ishmael]

I think that Mrs. Flood had to have known it was a TARDIS.  She picked that fight with the guy (can’t remember his name).  She was much nicer to him at the end.  Also the difference from the beginning till the end was too noticeable and her meta joke about not recognizing the TARDIS too cute not to be meant for us to recognize that.

I agree that ruby’s origins will be a big issue as will “foundlings.”  But I did wonder if he didn’t go after the woman because he thought that it would disrupt ruby’s family.  The whole “it’s a wonderful life” sub theme made it clear that doing anything to complicate things would have unpredictable results.

[Affogato]

7 hours ago, call me ishmael said:

I think that Mrs. Flood had to have known it was a TARDIS.  She picked that fight with the guy (can’t remember his name).  She was much nicer to him at the end.  Also the difference from the beginning till the end was too noticeable and her meta joke about not recognizing the TARDIS too cute not to be meant for us to recognize that.

I agree that ruby’s origins will be a big issue as will “foundlings.”  But I did wonder if he didn’t go after the woman because he thought that it would disrupt ruby’s family.  The whole “it’s a wonderful life” sub theme made it clear that doing anything to complicate things would have unpredictable results.

I’d think that, but he is always on about those points in time that can’t be changed. 

[call me ishmael]

11 hours ago, Affogato said:

I’d think that, but he is always on about those points in time that can’t be changed. 

That’s an interesting thought.  It makes me wonder about the opening voice over which implies that the drop off person was unknown until he called out.  But then at the end he didn’t call out it seemed.