S02.E08: Under the Cloak of War

[starri]

Quote

 

Captain Pike and his crew welcome a Klingon defector aboard the U.S.S. Enterprise, but his presence triggers the revelation of some shocking secrets.

 

[tv-talk]

This was a great episode!! I am not sure I'll be able to watch next week's song and dance routines after such serious material. Early on the series I wasnt a fan of M'Benga's almost android-like minimalism with his expressions and that voice- can barely hear him half the time. He grew on me over the course of the show and it culminated here, very glad he got an episode as the central player. Well deserved and Olusanmokun is an excellent actor, at least for this role.

It was nice to see an episode where nothing was flippant, they were in a serious situation and everyone behaved so. 

I think what I liked most was this as an episode that showed despite the Federations ideals and how far things have come from humanity's barbarous past, people are still people and no set of ideals or principles can change that at its most base level.

Edited July 27, 2023 by tv-talk

[Chicago Redshirt]

I was confused about the end...it seemed like M'Benga just straight up murdered Ambassador Rah without provocation, and then Chapel and he acted like he had no choice and was responding to Rah starting a fight.

Was I not paying enough attention to what was going on or did M'Benga/Chapel engage in a coverup/revisionist history?

[tv-talk]

4 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Was I not paying enough attention to what was going on or did M'Benga/Chapel engage in a coverup/revisionist history?

It wasnt quite clear who started the altercation aside from Rah putting his hand on M'Benga in a not necessarily aggressive manner, like he was trying to make the point of what they could do together.  Chapel probably couldnt tell exactly what happened so of course went with the Doc.

The subterfuge though, as I understood it anyway, Starfleet believes Rah had the knife and M'Benga killed him with it. They think it was Rah's because of the klingon dna on it...but it was M'Benga's knife and he may have just stabbed Rah the moment he touched him.

[Stardancer Supreme]

This episode was heavy. I feel for M'Benga, Chapel, and Ortegas. War is a horrible thing and people broken by it are broken forever.

Ambassador Rah had tried his best to run away from the truth and it simpy caught up with him.  I wonder what would have happened to him had he told the truth about who the butcher of J'Gal really was; he clearly was a Klingon who was not the warring kind. In his culture, he probably would have been killed had his true nature been revealed.  But what was the worst truth; that a mere human had bested him and killed his comrades or that he was a Klingon who was not okay with killing and war?  Cowardice is a four letter word to Klingons.

I literally felt M'Benga's pain throughout this whole episode.  I wonder if Rah had remembered him and thought that allying with the true Butcher of J'Gal would somehow relieve him of whatever guilt he held.  Or did Rah not realize who was in front of him until it was too late to step back?  

[ofmd]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I was confused about the end...it seemed like M'Benga just straight up murdered Ambassador Rah without provocation, and then Chapel and he acted like he had no choice and was responding to Rah starting a fight.

Was I not paying enough attention to what was going on or did M'Benga/Chapel engage in a coverup/revisionist history?

Imo he did, and she did, and I'm supposed to be conflicted because of their ptsd and because the victim was a liar etc.

M'Benga is my favorite character, together with Pike, but he is a murderer and does not belong in SF. I'm equally unimpressed with Chapel covering it up.

Great acting all around, particularly the Doc and the guest star; I just wish they'd done something different with the story than "eh... it's ok if one of us does it." I expect better from Trek.

It's of course possible that he'll confess and be held accountable; we'll see.

You know, I remember a similar plot from an early DS9 episode, where it turned out that an alleged Bajoran war hero was really not. And everyone decided to cover it up because Bajor needed this hero etc. I wasn't too impressed with this morale, but I'd prefer it over the lynching solution...

On another note, I'd have preferred less flashbacks (which were pretty much like almost any war movie) and instead maybe more focus on the three veterans and their nuanced reactions.

Through a lens of realism, Enterprise would have more than one doctor and nurse, and Pike would have prepared everyone a Klingon was coming onboard and given the war vets leave. Or, well, vetted and counseled them better to deal with their hangups before sending them back to active duty.

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by ofmd

[Prevailing Wind]

This was a brutal episode. I'm looking forward to the musical next week.

[baldryanr]

1 hour ago, tv-talk said:

It wasnt quite clear who started the altercation aside from Rah putting his hand on M'Benga in a not necessarily aggressive manner, like he was trying to make the point of what they could do together.  Chapel probably couldnt tell exactly what happened so of course went with the Doc.

They shot it a little bit oddly - we only saw the fight through the frosted glass, but Chapel was inside the room and showed up in time to see the stabbing.

It's not a new debate, but since the Enterprise was deliberately kept out of the fighting Pike, Una, and Spock get to toe the usual Federation line (we're evolved, dammit, so we have to get past out past trauma to make things better) while M'Benga, Chapel, and Ortegas think they're soft idealists who wouldn't be so forgiving if they had actually been involved with the war and seen what the Klingons did.  Afer all, Rah's not just a liar, he's a war criminal.

[paigow]

DS9 also did the other extreme when a Cardassian prisoner was identified as a War Criminal and Kira spent the whole episode in the brig interrogating him.

[Stardancer Supreme]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I was confused about the end...it seemed like M'Benga just straight up murdered Ambassador Rah without provocation, and then Chapel and he acted like he had no choice and was responding to Rah starting a fight.

Was I not paying enough attention to what was going on or did M'Benga/Chapel engage in a coverup/revisionist history?

 

Another perspective I saw elsewhere that I hadn't considered was that once Rah learned that he was with the true Butcher of J'Gal, he decided to commit suicide in order for that knowledge not to get out. 

44 minutes ago, ofmd said:

Through a lens of realism, Enterprise would have more than one doctor and nurse, and Pike would have prepared everyone a Klingon was coming onboard and given the war vets leave. Or, well, vetted and counseled them better to deal with their hangups before sending them back to active duty.

 

I was a bit concerned about how Pike would essentially force his Veteran crew members to entertain someone who was directly connected with their war experience.  I know he cares deeply for his crew, but he seemed a bit insensitive towards the PTSD, although he didn't recognize it.

 

 

[tv-talk]

1 hour ago, ofmd said:

Great acting all around, particularly the Doc and the guest star; I just wish they'd done something different with the story than "eh... it's ok if one of us does it." I expect better from Trek.

Did they do that though? If Mbenga murdered Rah, only he and Chapel know and he'd surely be prosecuted if he did and Pike knew.

[ofmd]

8 minutes ago, tv-talk said:

Did they do that though? If Mbenga murdered Rah, only he and Chapel know and he'd surely be prosecuted if he did and Pike knew.

I meant on a meta level; that we sort of take that away from the episode.

35 minutes ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

Another perspective I saw elsewhere that I hadn't considered was that once Rah learned that he was with the true Butcher of J'Gal, he decided to commit suicide in order for that knowledge not to get out.

Interesting idea! I kept thinking there must be a reason why they put a screen between us and what was happening, so maybe it'll turn out it wasn't M'Benga after all...  Even though the doc planned to kill him (he brought the dagger).

Edited July 27, 2023 by ofmd

[tv-talk]

6 minutes ago, ofmd said:

Even though the doc planned to kill him (he brought the dagger).

He didn't know he'd show up in sick bay and also asked him to leave. Definitely didn't plan to kill him.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I'll pretty likely rewatch later, but from what I remember:

M'Benga had his Butcher of J'Gal dagger in a case and was looking at it. Then Rah came down and was like "So we're cutting the trip short. Guess we're not going to hang out as much as I'd like."

M'Benga was like "Cool by me, fuck right off."

Rah kept pushing for them to be bros, and then M'Benga revealed that he was the one who actually killed the other Klingon leaders and that he knows Rah is a phony.

Rah then was stunned and worried that M'Benga was going to undo all the peace work Rah did, and Rah put a hand on M'Benga in a non-threatening way (at least to an objective person).

Then M'Benga got the Butcher dagger and completed his set.

Christine saw through the screen so she might honestly believe that M'Benga was attacked by Rah. Or she might have just backed him up instinctively and/or knowing that M'Benga was the true Butcher.

I don't think this was a case where Rah committed suicide to avoid the shame of his being a coward coming to light or to preserve his successes at bringing about peace.

I wasn't clear if Chapel also knows that M'Benga was the true Butcher. 

The reveal may make the whole episode ring differently.

One thing I do know: I think they should have made it clearer if M'Benga straight up deliberately killed Rah, was the victim of PTSD and snapped and killed Rah, was legitimately attacked by Rah and was defending himself or what. And they should have had more time for the wrap up after.

[tv-talk]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I think they should have made it clearer if M'Benga straight up deliberately killed Rah, was the victim of PTSD and snapped and killed Rah, was legitimately attacked by Rah and was defending himself or what.

I think it will eventually come back as MBenga is no longer CMO of the Enterprise in the near future. Also I dont think killing Rah can be attributed to PTSD, wanting to take revenge on someone is not PTSD even if you have PTSD otherwise. M'Benga wanted to kill him for very valid reasons unrelated to any emotional issues the good Doc may be going thru.

 

[thuganomics85]

Definitely one of this show's more serious episodes so far this season.  Even though I'm a little tired out by the never ending issues between Starfleet/Federation and the Klingions during this time period, I did like how they went more in depth into the horrors of that war and how it effected the likes of M'Benga and Chapel (and Ortegas.)  And I've definitely heard of some real life incidences of war criminals getting a safety net after they turned, because the "good" they were able to do outweighed the horrors they committed in the government's eyes, so all of this was topical as well.

I guess they wanted to leave some of what went down between M'Benga and Rah to be up for interpretation, but my best guess is that once Rah found out the truth, he was trying to get M'Benga to listen to him about keeping things the way they were and while he didn't have violent intentions, he was probably aggressive in a "Don't leave until I finish speaking" way; including trying to grab him; so M'Benga was able to use that as an excuse for him to kill Rah.  That way, his claim that he didn't start the fight can be interpreted as being true if you want to look at it in a certain way.  I don't think it was premeditated though, because he sounded sincere about him just wanting Rah to leave and never speak to him again, but once it all went down, M'Benga had enough.  I guess once can debate how much of this Rah deserved, but it was certainly one of the darker acts by a lead character on Trek.

Always great seeing Robert Wisdom and he gave a compelling performance as Rah.  And I see they also used this episode to get Clint Howard to play another Trek role!

Curious to see if this will have lasting implications somewhere down the line.  

[marinw]

Two episodes in one week!

Good episode. Rah was desperate to reconcile with M'Benga and M'Benga wasn't having it. I was confused by the end. So does Pike believe that M'Benga killed Rah in self-defence, totally taking Chapel's word for it, given Chapel’s past? Okay then.

So there seems to be no video Surveillance in Sickbay. I'm cool with that, maybe Starfleet respects people's privacy.

I do think M'Benga is not long for the Enterprise.  Will we soon see McCoy? Casting suggestions?

Purging the transport buffer really caused M'Benga some moral injury. He hid his own daughter in the transport buffer last season.

Edited July 28, 2023 by marinw

[marinw]

They invented a new martial art for this episode! It looks like Judo, only more upright.

[Chit Chat]

7 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

I was a bit concerned about how Pike would essentially force his Veteran crew members to entertain someone who was directly connected with their war experience.  I know he cares deeply for his crew, but he seemed a bit insensitive towards the PTSD, although he didn't recognize it.

I'm very disappointed that they wrote Pike's character in this way.  He was completely oblivious as to how some of his crew would feel about Rah being on their ship, and then he basically expected them all to stand around and sing Kumbaya together.   

What he expected from his crew in this particular matter was ignorant on his part. YMMV.

[starri]

1 hour ago, marinw said:

They invented a new martial art for this episode! It looks like Judo, only more upright.

Worf taught Mok'bara classes on the Enterprise-D.

[Chicago Redshirt]

21 hours ago, marinw said:

Two episodes in one week!

Good episode. Rah was desperate to reconcile with M'Benga and M'Benga wasn't having it. I was confused by the end. So does Pike believe that M'Benga killed Rah in self-defence, totally taking Chapel's word for it, given Chapel’s past? Okay then.

So there seems to be no video Surveillance in Sickbay. I'm cool with that, maybe Starfleet respects people's privacy.

I do think M'Benga is not long for the Enterprise.  Will we soon see McCoy? Casting suggestions?

Purging the transport buffer really caused M'Benga some moral injury. He hid his own daughter in the transport buffer last season.

I'm not sure what is worse: if he has been taken in by M'Benga, or if he realizes that M'Benga and Chapel's story has something of an odor to it, but isn't willing to push the matter. On my first viewing, I thought it was the second.

I often think that a good 10-25 percent of all Trek episodes across all series would have been avoided if the ships had the same level of video surveillance as a current-day convenience store and if landing/away parties had body cams.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Chicago Redshirt

[historylover820]

I was not expecting that!

I didn't care much for the season premiere, and I was a little bit on the side of "Well, I'll watch, because I'm watching this show." 

I mostly really liked it, though. The acting was awesome, and I'm someone who usually can take or leave the actor who plays M'Benga. But, I really felt for him.

But, count me in as someone who was disappointed with Pike's utter insensitivity to his crew who were war vets. Forcing them to dinner with a war criminal is absurd. I agree with the above who said that a ship the size of the Enterprise should have more than one doctor, nurse, and helmsman, and these three should have been given a pass. And I understand the desire to put on a unified front, but even if Pike wasn't in the war, he would have had friends, colleagues, superiors, etc, who did fight in the war and should have some understanding of why is crew who are war vets may not want to fraternize with a Klingon war criminal, even if the Federation is trotting him out.

I actually kept thinking that Rah was up to something, and I was partly right. But, except for Worf, I side with the words of another Enterprise captain: "I have never trusted Klingons, and I never will." 

But, I was absolutely not expecting M'Benga to have done that! Usually I'm very good at predicting twists, but I wasn't expecting that. Maybe I need to rewatch it, and I like the theory that Rah committed suicide, but I think M'Benga killed him outright. I don't think it was planned. I think it was Rah placing his hand on him that triggered it. And, yeah, I don't know if Pike is suspicious. And I don't know if Chapel knows the extent of this. And I kind of like that ambiguity. 

However, after that heaviness, I'm actually someone who is going "I can't wait for the musical episode!"

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, historylover820 said:

But, count me in as someone who was disappointed with Pike's utter insensitivity to his crew who were war vets.

I can’t blame Pike for what happened. He wasn’t insensitive to how big of an ask it was. He was given orders from the highest levels of Starfleet that the war vets had to interact with Rah. Pike went to them directly to check in with them. They could have said no. It was a shitty situation but that is at the feet of Starfleet much more than Pike, in my opinion. 

[rtms77]

17 minutes ago, Dani said:

I can’t blame Pike for what happened. He wasn’t insensitive to how big of an ask it was. He was given orders from the highest levels of Starfleet that the war vets had to interact with Rah. Pike went to them directly to check in with them. They could have said no. It was a shitty situation but that is at the feet of Starfleet much more than Pike, in my opinion. 

Pike pretty much guilt tripped the Vets into joining the dinner. Still I blame Starfleet, they are just tone deaf to their vets it seems. I can’t believe Starfleet waited over 100yrs to start putting actual counsellors on ships , and that was only because missions were longer and families were aboard. Counsellors should be on all explorer class ships, given the amount of vets they have scattered around.

I have to say they really played with the angles and edits in shooting the fight and death. M’Benga turns away without the knife in his hand. The cut to the screen with Chapel did not show how the knife or when the knife got into M’Benga hands. There was no movement it seems to grab it from what was shown. Hard to say if he snapped due to PTSD, or hatred.
 

Somehow I have a feeling the truth is going to come out, and while it still may be ambiguous, it’s going to sully M’Benga and Chapels reputations, to the point he’s demoted in favour of McCoy , and Spock decides Chapel went to far in lying and ends it. I envision her going off and rebounding with Korby.

As for the rest, Ortegas gets a bit more attention, but only as a bigot which wasn’t very fair to her. I’m thinking the final episode is where she gets a bigger spotlight. 
 

This whole season has been up and down especially in tone. A war episode here, next a musical? 

[QuantumMechanic]

So last week we had an actual crossover with LD and this week we had a spiritual crossover with DS9.

👍

[Guest]

9 hours ago, rtms77 said:

Pike pretty much guilt tripped the Vets into joining the dinner.

I wouldn’t call it guilt tripping. I thought they were all trapped by their duty to Starfleet. I don’t think Pike came off particularly well but I also wouldn’t say that he was insensitive. Mainly because he made clear his orders came from very high up. I read that scene as him wanting to be the supportive captain and not order them to be there but knowing that them not being there would have repercussions. And probably knowing that they would agree because they all know what an order means. I wish one of them had said no so we could have seen how that would have been handled.

I just don’t see what options any of them had based on how the situation was presented. Starfleet is structured like a military organization which are frequently insensitive and often treats its members more as chess pieces than individuals. I think that it was particularly striking here because Pike really blurs the line and allows a lot more informality than most captains.

15 hours ago, tv-talk said:

I think it will eventually come back as MBenga is no longer CMO of the Enterprise in the near future. 

I think the same thing. This episode really made the overarching structure of the season come into focus in a way that wasn’t clear in earlier episodes. 

[rtms77]

I’m wondering about the bio bed. Was that last shot a Gorn warning? Could Enterprise have a Gorn computer virus onboard? 

[ofmd]

9 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

so M'Benga was able to use that as an excuse for him to kill Rah.  That way, his claim that he didn't start the fight can be interpreted as being true if you want to look at it in a certain way.  I don't think it was premeditated though, because he sounded sincere about him just wanting Rah to leave and never speak to him again, but once it all went down, M'Benga had enough.

 

The bolded points to premeditation, though. It's not the same as planning and it doesn't have to last long. (I'm sure lawyers could explain that better, lol.)

[baldryanr]

8 hours ago, historylover820 said:

I actually kept thinking that Rah was up to something, and I was partly right. But, except for Worf, I side with the words of another Enterprise captain: "I have never trusted Klingons, and I never will." 

Except there have been many examples of Klingons who can be trusted to keep their word and work with the Federation.  Even in the current era the Chancellor, L'Rell, is at least willing to not ignite another war.  Then there's Spock's drinking buddy from the season premiere, who was pretty reasonable.

9 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I'm not sure what is worse: if he has been taken in by M'Benga, or if he realizes that M'Benga and Chapel's story has something of an odor to it, but isn't willing to push the matter. On my first viewing, I thought it was the second.

Pike's not supposed to be an idiot, so it has to be the second.  I can see him justifying it as thinking he has to trust his officers when they give him their word, so it's either drop the matter or relieve M'Benga (and Chapel) of duty on the spot.  He has a lot of faith in his crew, so of course he'd let it drop in the absence of more evidence.

[marinw]

17 hours ago, historylover820 said:

But, count me in as someone who was disappointed with Pike's utter insensitivity to his crew who were war vets.

Agreed. Pike is not perfect, that was a dick move. If Rah was truly a great ambassador, he would understand that not everybody is ready to move on from the War.

The Jambalaya was another enticement/bribe. Pike should resign from Starfleet a few months before the disastrous training cruise and open a restaurant. 

Edited July 28, 2023 by marinw

[tv-talk]

8 hours ago, QuantumMechanic said:

So last week we had an actual crossover with LD and this week we had a spiritual crossover with DS9.

This ep was so DS9! And better than anything Enterprise, Voyager, Disc, and Pic1-2 have ever put out.

9 hours ago, historylover820 said:

I actually kept thinking that Rah was up to something, and I was partly right.

Was he though? I took Rah to be sincere. Yes, no doubt he had lied about what happened, but as far as being an Ambassador trying to bring peace and help people find it- nothing in the ep suggested it was a ruse in anyway. And now Ortega is going to be confirmed in her biases against Klingons when in fact it was her beloved crewmate that was probably the bad guy.

[tv-talk]

12 hours ago, marinw said:

They invented a new martial art for this episode! It looks like Judo, only more upright.

That was a great scene! Better than I expected going into it. The way Rah manhandled M'Benga and flashes pure violence in his eyes for a moment was perfect in terms of showing that he has been a stone cold Klingon with no qualms about killing. Yet he had changed! And M'Benga killed him anyway. Some great Trek right there.

[marinw]

10 hours ago, starri said:

Worf taught Mok'bara classes on the Enterprise-D.

I stand corrected! I'm sure all the Star Trek Martial arts have already been analyzed in great detail: Riker fighting his Dad, The Voyager Episode where Seven was forced to fight, Kirk's "Distinctive" fighting style. The Klingon/Vulcan/Other fighting styles are all based on Earth Martial Arts because that is our reference point as bipedal humanoids.

[tv-talk]

18 minutes ago, marinw said:

Riker fighting his Dad, The Voyager Episode where Seven was forced to fight, Kirk's "Distinctive" fighting style.

For me the best of all was By Inferno's Light when Worf had to fight series of ever increasingly tough Jem'Hadar while Bashir tried to find a way out of cell and Martak was bellowing "Great hymns shall be sung about Worf son of Mogh throughout the Ages!!"

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, marinw said:

Pike should resign from Starfleet a few months before the disastrous training cruise and open a restaurant.

He's certainly had his share of cooking scenes this season!  

[Guest]

2 hours ago, baldryanr said:

Pike's not supposed to be an idiot, so it has to be the second.  I can see him justifying it as thinking he has to trust his officers when they give him their word, so it's either drop the matter or relieve M'Benga (and Chapel) of duty on the spot.  He has a lot of faith in his crew, so of course he'd let it drop in the absence of more evidence.

This. Plus, in the big picture, it’s better for everyone if Rah was double an agent and Pike has to know that. Pike’s walking on a minefield. 

1 hour ago, marinw said:

If Rah was truly a great ambassador, he would understand that not everybody is ready to move on from the War.

He seemed to be but the order came from Starfleet and they don’t care. 

[PurpleTentacle]

This is what I'd like to see from a prequel. Expanding on established events without stomping all over canon. Great episode. Sad that this show doesn't do this kind of thing more often.

[QuantumMechanic]

I saw this online elsewhere and thought it was a great point about Pike looking the other way at the end:

Quote

 

My take on the subject is that Pike’s own argument defeated itself. M’Benga, to me, was flat out confessing to Pike without precisely saying the words and Pike knew it. However, Pike’s argument is that a murderer going free if he does good things is superior to a murderer being punished.

So, what the hell is his argument for arresting M’Benga then?

M’Benga as a doctor who has saved countless lives and will save countless more. Arresting him would only stop him from doing so.

So Pike had no choice but to leave in order not to be a monstrous hypocrite.

 

 

[tv-talk]

 

1 minute ago, QuantumMechanic said:

I saw this online elsewhere and thought it was a great point about Pike looking the other way at the end:

I would disagree that Pike believes M'Benga killed Rah. What is getting forgotten is everyone thinks the knife was in Rah's possession. It's the knife he used to kill the 3 Klingons, no one but M'Benga knows that in fact HE had killed them and it was HIS knife. So why did Rah bring that knife to sick bay if he didnt have ill intentions? When you add the knife into equation, M'Benga's lie protects him here as EVERYONE believes Rah was the one carrying the knife.

If M'Benga admitted to murdering Rah, Pike would have had him arrested. 

[marceline]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who was disappointed by Pike's insensitivity but the more I thought about I think that might have been the intention of the writing.

The message we kept getting was that no one truly understand war unless they went through it. Pike is supposed to be the Hot Space Dad but even dads can make mistakes. It was a really good example of how even well-meaning people can and will ask you to put your trauma away for the sake of getting along. It's them saying "could you please not make this uncomfortable?"

Something else that got me was how much I resented Rah continuing to pressure M'benga even after M'benga literally BEGGED R'ah to leave him alone. That repeated violation of his physical and emotional boundaries was really awful to witness.. Especially because we know that the only reason M'benga did any of this was because as he stated "Our captain needs us." He did this for Pike.

The whole episode was people making horrible requests of M'benga and having no idea how harmful those requests were because they didn't know the full story and never could.

[marinw]

As @Chit Chat has mentioned, Pike does a lot of cooking. Yet this is his second Dinner Party From Hell this season.

Edited July 28, 2023 by marinw

[paigow]

33 minutes ago, marinw said:

As @Chit Chat has mentioned, Pike does a lot of cooking. Yet this is his second Dinner Party From Hell this season.

Final Destination!Pike opening a restaurant will just result in him getting roasted to a crisp instead of absorbing Delta Rays.... 

[rtms77]

1 hour ago, tv-talk said:

 

I would disagree that Pike believes M'Benga killed Rah. What is getting forgotten is everyone thinks the knife was in Rah's possession. It's the knife he used to kill the 3 Klingons, no one but M'Benga knows that in fact HE had killed them and it was HIS knife. So why did Rah bring that knife to sick bay if he didnt have ill intentions? When you add the knife into equation, M'Benga's lie protects him here as EVERYONE believes Rah was the one carrying the knife.

If M'Benga admitted to murdering Rah, Pike would have had him arrested. 

Indeed, MBenga had the knife in the box and turned away from Rah to start arguing with him. We then see Chapels POV. At some point MBenga had to lean over/down to quickly grab the knife. Which means it could indeed be Interrupted as self defence. If Rah touched him or pushed MBenga, that could have set MBenga off and justified what happened. La’an and Pike just assume that Rah had the knife and MBenga just used it against him. And it’s clear neither is going to investigate further. Which is sloppy on La’an part. Wouldn’t fingerprints of MBenga show up on the handle? 

Edited July 28, 2023 by rtms77

[tv-talk]

5 minutes ago, rtms77 said:

Wouldn’t fingerprints of MBenga show up on the handle? 

They must have but as he's claiming to have stabbed him in self-defense that makes sense. Ok here's what I think happens if the writers want to go this route:

Rah's fingerprints are not on the handle! That should be the tell as he ostensibly never held it unless he grabbed it and tried to kill M'Benga- which I doubt. So someone looking into it will notice that only M'Benga's prints are on the knife and that will point the finger at him basically stabbing Rah for touching him. Also important to remember is that Rah really did nothing wrong in this episode. He didnt have a nefarious motive and he wasnt a double-agent, and he did in fact defect surely due to his own guilt over what he had ordered done during the war. He was actually a "good guy" in this ep and notice he didnt get angry at all with Ortega's insults. A "bad" Rah would have given her a "I will rip your head off your shoulders" look.

[Stardancer Supreme]

Christine would also know that knife was the one M'Benga took off of the body of the Andorian soldier. They showed us the knife strapped to M'Benga's side as he was preparing to end the battle on J'Gal. 

1 hour ago, marceline said:

Something else that got me was how much I resented Rah continuing to pressure M'benga even after M'benga literally BEGGED R'ah to leave him alone. That repeated violation of his physical and emotional boundaries was really awful to witness.. Especially because we know that the only reason M'benga did any of this was because as he stated "Our captain needs us." He did this for Pike.

The whole episode was people making horrible requests of M'benga and having no idea how harmful those requests were because they didn't know the full story and never could.

 

Same! I was wondering if Rah knew who M'Benga was before the reveal because of the full court press he was doing from the very start. Perhaps Rah noticed M'Benga having his panic attack in Sickbay and decided to amuse himself by toying with this human, not knowing what he was in for.  I flinched every time Rah grabbed him; why are you being so familiar with someone you just met?

[Zaffy]

Ok...are they trying to make Pike worse captain than Burnham? (I assume, since I haven't watched a single episode with her  as a captain).
Cause right now in my books...he acts more like if he just enjoying being in space with his friends than a true captain.
He speaks to them like if they are his buddies and he covers for their crimes, because..well... they are his friends. A fact that he conveniently forgets when the episode's script demands extra tension (I mean asking from the war veterans to join the dinner with the Klingon? WTH?). 
Pike looks more interested in his next cooking meal than really commanding a Starfleet ship. 
The Doc in particular, seems to enjoy some extra immunity, let's not forget how much he endangered the whole ship and the crew when he had his daughter  hidden in the buffer.
Now he has PTSD so he is free to kill. 
Whatever..

[marinw]

On 7/28/2023 at 1:40 PM, Zaffy said:

The Doc in particular, seems to enjoy some extra immunity, let's not forget how much he endangered the whole ship and the crew when he had his daughter  hidden in the buffer.

To be fair, it was Una who kept that secret for M'Benga.

For his next meal, Pike will invite La'an to lunch with a Gorn orphan rescued from a crash. Think "I, Borg" but  with Gorn. He's making fish tacos, so it's all good. 

Edited July 31, 2023 by marinw

[marceline]

I have a friend at work and we spend inordinate amounts of time discussing Star Trek. (True story: human resources once had to get involved 😄)  We were talking about this whole thing with Pike and cooking. I wonder if there's another Star Trek cookbook about to drop. I mean at this point Pike is basically Neelix going on about his leola root soup.

Pike's quarters slowly turning into the mess hall highlights one of my pet peeves going back to TNG: open flames in a sealed environment.

Pike has a fireplace going and he's cooking on some open flames. He's in a sealed environment with manufactured oxygen. How much air is that fireplace using? If I'm at Utopia Planitia I'm including a setting on these ships where rooms can be set so any open flame is met by beaming any life signs to a designated location then sealing the room and introducing a fire suppressant. (Yes, I have given this ALL the thought.)

[tv-talk]

I dont get the backlash on Pike. He was ordered by Starfleet to have the war vets mingle with Rah, he still gave each of them a chance to pass if they wanted, he didnt come down on Ortega for her insolence (which he could have), and as soon as his 1st said morale was bad he agreed to the shortcut to get Rah off the ship asap for sake of his crew. What should he have done differently?

[marceline]

23 hours ago, tv-talk said:

I don't get the backlash on Pike. He was ordered by Starfleet to have the war vets mingle with Rah, he still gave each of them a chance to pass if they wanted, he didn't come down on Ortega for her insolence (which he could have), and as soon as his 1st said morale was bad he agreed to the shortcut to get Rah off the ship asap for sake of his crew. What should he have done differently?

I've criticized him but you're absolutely right. Something felt off about him in this episode. 

I said upthread that I think he was being written this way purposely. The more discussion I see, the more I believe that.

Edited July 29, 2023 by marceline