Jack Ryan Season 4: Final Race Around The Globe

[Door County Cherry]

Please use this thread to discuss Season 4.  

[HerkyJerky]

I’m liking this much better than season three!

[dwmarch]

Well, two episodes in and I am not sure what exactly is supposed to be going on. There are a lot of elements of Clear and Present Danger in this but it is definitely not a 1:1 adaptation. CaPD's bad guy was the National Security Advisor who was trying to score political points for the President during an election year. He got the CIA and Chavez's team involved in counter-narcotics operations in Colombia but things didn't go according to plan and Jack Ryan got pulled in (from the Intelligence Directorate) despite the other leadership at CIA actively working to keep him out of it. There are elements of all of this in here but they've put it in a blender and added some other really random stuff.

Clancy's books mention Mormons a few times so I guess the man himself had some LDS friends. And so far we have seen two LDS-branded bibles, one in Myanmar and one at Miller's place. I think this might be the first spy thriller I have ever seen where Mormons are the villains.

Cathy's dad is a villain as well and there's no way he's a Mormon because if he was, she wouldn't be having sleepovers at Jack's place. Weird choice for a villain. Cathy's dad is described in the books as an asshole but there is never any great detail to it other than him thinking Jack is a bum because he does CIA stuff instead of making real money in the private sector.

The editing in the second episode was weird. Miller meets Jack at Generic Park, leaves in a panic and goes straight home. Chavez is there and should be able to figure out where he is going. Cathy's dad shows up, ties Miller to a chair, force-feeds him pills and booze and manages to get away clean even though Chavez should have been right behind Miller. Jack and Greer show up a few minutes later. Is this show going to be like 24 where the assassins are omnipotent and we're always literally a minute behind them?

[Door County Cherry]

The first two episodes were good.  This show is still so gorgeous to look at.  It's so cinematic. 

[Raja]

On 6/30/2023 at 8:59 PM, dwmarch said:

 

Clancy's books mention Mormons a few times so I guess the man himself had some LDS friends. And so far we have seen two LDS-branded bibles, one in Myanmar and one at Miller's place. I think this might be the first spy thriller I have ever seen where Mormons are the villains.

Cathy's dad is a villain as well and there's no way he's a Mormon because if he was, she wouldn't be having sleepovers at Jack's place. Weird choice for a villain. Cathy's dad is described in the books as an asshole but there is never any great detail to it other than him thinking Jack is a bum because he does CIA stuff instead of making real money in the private sector

I think that as a writer Tom Clancy was a research nerd and saw that Mormon's seemed to be in the FBI and military officer corps well above the demographic numbers suggest would be random. So they are written into his stories much like others with non Christ based faiths are written into stories.

As a minority faith group, but close enough to the mainstream to look practically identical,  besides here they've gotten mentioned in the period pieces Tribal Police story Dark Winds and as players in Dennis Quaid's Vegas.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Raja

[Raja]

On 6/30/2023 at 8:59 PM, dwmarch said:

There are a lot of elements of Clear and Present Danger in this but it is definitely not a 1:1 adaptation.

When Chao Fah pulled up to that compound in Myanmar in the second episode  I immediately saw the Colombian compound in Clear and Present Danger and was expecting a stealth bomb to come down. I don't know if I was spoiled by the thread or Ding Chavez at the end of the first episode.

Ding threatening Ryan was to soon in the story and to heavy for the players positions. Does the CIA run like the Klingon empire? But making him Latinx Clark down to being just a light infantryman turned CIA was not good enough but that he was a SEAL goes against the spirit of Clancy who thought all service had honor and are good, not just the megastar warriors.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Raja

[MrsCastle]

Glad you all are here.  I forgot so much of the last seasons.  Had no idea that was Cathy's father.  Thank you for taking the time to post.  Years ago I spent a lot of time at televisionwithoutpity.com.  I hadn't been back to this site for a while.  I do love reading/talking tv.

 

[Rickster]

Not sure about the Mormon bible point, but the bible in the first scene in Miller’s office was a King James Version, pretty standard. Did not notice one in Myanmar..

[dwmarch]

4 hours ago, Rickster said:

Not sure about the Mormon bible point, but the bible in the first scene in Miller’s office was a King James Version, pretty standard.

It's a King James version as published by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I have one three feet away from me, I'd recognize it anywhere. The most recent episode mentioned Mormon missionaries in Nigeria as well. I don't know where they are going with the Mormon angle on this show but several characters are connected to it.

[Raja]

5 hours ago, dwmarch said:

The most recent episode mentioned Mormon missionaries in Nigeria as well. I don't know where they are going with the Mormon angle on this show but several characters are connected to it.

Its right there in the statement I think, the network of missionaries, present or we served together, will provide support to someone in the future. How much do we know   about Mike November? He did go the church route to easily track down Ding Chavez and the Catholic Church isn't the only one with a wide reach and record keeping.

Where do you go story wise after a public assassination attempt on a CIA Deputy Director? We have a case of too much rank is held by those doing field work.  The season must not be grabbing me because I missed Ryan  being relieved of his commission to go rogue. And two commandos fighting through an alert security force had it much too easy. And jack doesn't seem to have anything lingering from his back injury.

[Rickster]

2 hours ago, Raja said:

Where do you go story wise after a public assassination attempt on a CIA Deputy Director? We have a case of too much rank is held by those doing field work.  The season must not be grabbing me because I missed Ryan  being relieved of his commission to go rogue. And two commandos fighting through an alert security force had it much too easy. And jack doesn't seem to have anything lingering from his back injury.

Although this series should be in my wheelhouse, I have found the last two seasons really uninvolving. It seems to hit all the action points, but the rest of the plotting is connect-the-dots, and sometime even those don’t connect. I blame the writing, and maybe the editing.

[SeanBug]

On 6/30/2023 at 11:28 PM, HerkyJerky said:

I’m liking this much better than season three!

Agree! I'm a little into E2 and I'm glad we got an explanation of what Michael Pena is doing.  I had a feeling he was deep cover Special Ops or something even before he briefed his men re  the cartel raid  (Do they EVER have parties where the women aren't in bathing suits?)  

I gave up on Season 3 didn't even finish it. It was always dark and you couldn't see what was going on and it made no sense.  

I laffed at the shot of the White House and the caption "White House, Washington DC". Oh, thanks for clearing that up.  I thought it was the other White House.  And we have established the bad guys are in Myanmar you don't have to keep telling us that. 

 

[HerkyJerky]

5 hours ago, SeanBug said:

Do they EVER have parties where the women aren't in bathing suits?)  

No, thank goodness!

[dwmarch]

On 7/11/2023 at 3:15 PM, SeanBug said:

I laffed at the shot of the White House and the caption "White House, Washington DC". Oh, thanks for clearing that up.  I thought it was the other White House.  And we have established the bad guys are in Myanmar you don't have to keep telling us that. 

This might actually be a deep cut reference to The Hunt for Red October. Every single time the action moves to a new location, there is a heading to tell the reader where they are. I think Red Storm Rising does the same thing but Clancy dropped it in later books.

[SeanBug]

I knew that dark haired woman was trouble!! 

Were those nuclear bomb triggers?  Jeesh you go to a sex party in Croatia and all hell breaks loose. 

 

[Raja]

Is there no 911 equivalent in Myanmar? Casino security guards are firing and dying, helicopter gunships shooting up the parking lot and the cavalry doesn't come running to help.

[Rickster]

Interesting how fast Jack recovered from those 3rd degree burns and the rest of the torture. 

Not to mention Mike getting shot through the shoulder.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Rickster

[Sundazed]

Quote

Is there no 911 equivalent in Myanmar? Casino security guards are firing and dying, helicopter gunships shooting up the parking lot and the cavalry doesn't come running to help.

I imagine that the police and overall infrastructure there is kind of a mess due to the civil strife going on.  

I was in Thailand by the Golden Triangle earlier this year, and we could see the huge casino complexes on the other side of the Mekong River in Myanmar.  They certainly did not look as glitzy/glamorous as Chao Fah's!

Edited July 15, 2023 by Sundazed
typo

[TV Diva Queen]

Well that was a dud.  I thought there were 8 episode and at the end of E6, I was like "hmmm, this feels like an ending, but is it really over"?  4/10.  

 

[Absolom]

19 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

Well that was a dud.  I thought there were 8 episode and at the end of E6, I was like "hmmm, this feels like an ending, but is it really over"?  4/10.  

Really?  I was out of town so haven't seen these two latest episodes and they're the end?  I feel like we've barely gotten into the story.  OK, then, they barely tossed the last season together, I guess.  

[TV Diva Queen]

25 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Really?  I was out of town so haven't seen these two latest episodes and they're the end?  I feel like we've barely gotten into the story.  OK, then, they barely tossed the last season together, I guess.  

Exactly!  6 episodes....Kiss my a*ss Amazon.  

[PrincessPurrsALot]

That ending was howl-inducing. Ryan makes his impassioned speech and marches out.  The rest of the CIA folks follow him.  I guess contempt of Congress isn't a thing?  

I love how easily Chavez found Ryan in the torture chamber with the hole of convenience.  Of course, evil woman sent everyone out of the room to make it that much easier for Chavez to kill her.

Why didn't they try to save Chao Fan?  He was shot, but, given the way people heal on this show, what's a gut shot between friends? 

This felt like they took a mishmash of ideas stringing together often illogical action sequences.  This show is such a waste of a talented cast.     

[SeanBug]

15 hours ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

That ending was howl-inducing. Ryan makes his impassioned speech and marches out.  The rest of the CIA folks follow him.  I guess contempt of Congress isn't a thing?  

I love how easily Chavez found Ryan in the torture chamber with the hole of convenience.  Of course, evil woman sent everyone out of the room to make it that much easier for Chavez to kill her.

Why didn't they try to save Chao Fan?  He was shot, but, given the way people heal on this show, what's a gut shot between friends? 

This felt like they took a mishmash of ideas stringing together often illogical action sequences.  This show is such a waste of a talented cast.     

I think these days that would be considered Light Contempt, kinda like the Light Treason George Bluth committed on Arrested Development.  Didn't  Nat (Scarlett Johannsen)  in Winter Soldier do the same thing? Testify to Congress, call them on their BS and waltz out of there. 

The Cathy kidnapping was hilarious.  I still don't know what Evil Woman was trying to do with her. Did she think Jack & Co were going to come save Cathy and then she'd kill them?  So Croatia and Mexico and Myanmar wanted to start an easier route for drugs into the US, but also nuclear bomb triggers?  And because Chao made an offhand comment about secrets to his daughter, Cathy knew immediately the flash drive was in the stuffed animal. What if she accidentally left it behind?  

I LMAO at Chavez not even hesitating to shoot Evil Woman. I would watch the Hell out of him, Mike November and James Greer being bad ass CIA guys. 

 

 

[PrincessPurrsALot]

6 minutes ago, SeanBug said:

I think these days that would be considered Light Contempt, kinda like the Light Treason George Bluth committed on Arrested Development.  Didn't  Nat (Scarlett Johannsen)  in Winter Soldier do the same thing? Testify to Congress, call them on their BS and waltz out of there. 

The Cathy kidnapping was hilarious.  I still don't know what Evil Woman was trying to do with her. Did she think Jack & Co were going to come save Cathy and then she'd kill them?  So Croatia and Mexico and Myanmar wanted to start an easier route for drugs into the US, but also nuclear bomb triggers?  And because Chao made an offhand comment about secrets to his daughter, Cathy knew immediately the flash drive was in the stuffed animal. What if she accidentally left it behind?  

I LMAO at Chavez not even hesitating to shoot Evil Woman. I would watch the Hell out of him, Mike November and James Greer being bad ass CIA guys. 

 

 

I did enjoy the whole not waiting for you to chat; just going to shoot you now from Chavez.  November did the same thing with evil Croatian guy.  "I will destroy you and your family."  Nope, not with a bullet in your head. 

Chao had said his family had the info and he went back outside to get the stuffed animal. What was ridiculous to me was Cathy was the one to figure it out.  Nobody checked the stuffy?

Also enjoyed Ryan telling the madame to just take the women wherever they wanted to go on the boat.  Um, can they land just anywhere?  Do they have documents?  They are likely good in the EU, but is that getting far enough away?  At that point, they didn't know that the European big bad would be killed. 

So much silliness.   

[SeanBug]

5 minutes ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

I did enjoy the whole not waiting for you to chat; just going to shoot you now from Chavez.  November did the same thing with evil Croatian guy.  "I will destroy you and your family."  Nope, not with a bullet in your head. 

Chao had said his family had the info and he went back outside to get the stuffed animal. What was ridiculous to me was Cathy was the one to figure it out.  Nobody checked the stuffy?

Also enjoyed Ryan telling the madame to just take the women wherever they wanted to go on the boat.  Um, can they land just anywhere?  Do they have documents?  They are likely good in the EU, but is that getting far enough away?  At that point, they didn't know that the European big bad would be killed. 

So much silliness.   

I'm fantasizing about the four male leads, and Abbie Cornish doing talking head segments like in The Office about the plot of this season. 

Jack: Yes I was electrocuted, and beaten and hung by my arms for three days, but at least they  didn't burn my foot on a George Foreman grill. 

Cathy:  They didn't give me much to do, I think the stripper/nurse we had at the Michael Scott Race for the Cure was actually more important to the plot than I was. 

James Greer: Folks - just  watch The Wire.   (Wendell Pierce is a national treasure). 

 

 

[wknt3]

On 7/18/2023 at 8:25 PM, PrincessPurrsALot said:

That ending was howl-inducing. Ryan makes his impassioned speech and marches out.  The rest of the CIA folks follow him.  I guess contempt of Congress isn't a thing?   

Maybe not - the US Government in this world works differently from ours. For example the CIA Director seems to be confirmed by a Committee vote and not the full Senate. But in any case given the Category 5 Shit Storm that would be coming after what was just revealed about the Senator's involvement there is no way that any politician is going to take any public action against them.

Edited July 21, 2023 by wknt3

[KeithJ]

We need a November / Chavez spinoff.

[Door County Cherry]

I do think spinoffs are being planned.

The six episodes felt abrupt.  I think 8 would have been a perfect amount.  Shorter than previous seasons but with just a little more room to breath, especially for the corruption angle.

Heck, even an extra ep would have bee helpful. 

[KeithJ]

10 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

I do think spinoffs are being planned.

Looks like you are right:

https://www.comingsoon.net/guides/news/1306236-jack-ryan-spin-off-domingo-chavez-series-amazon-prime-video

"If the spin-off happens, Peña said he would like to see more of Mike November"

I know it's not up to Peña but that would be awesome.

[blackwing]

I enjoyed the season, but I'm kind of miffed that just as I FINALLY had come to some general understanding of what was going on, the season ended!

If they are planning on spinoffs, why not just make a Season 5?  Why was this already billed as the Final Season?  Did Krasinski want out?

On 7/19/2023 at 11:32 AM, PrincessPurrsALot said:

I did enjoy the whole not waiting for you to chat; just going to shoot you now from Chavez.  November did the same thing with evil Croatian guy.  "I will destroy you and your family."  Nope, not with a bullet in your head. 

Chao had said his family had the info and he went back outside to get the stuffed animal. What was ridiculous to me was Cathy was the one to figure it out.  Nobody checked the stuffy?

Yes, those two killings were well deserved.  None of this long drawn out banter. 

I agree regarding the stuffed animal, none of the guys realised that it was important?  Cathy is the one to figure it out?  Cathy in the Amazon series was kind of a waste of a character.  The Anne Archer version in the movies was fantastic.  The Cathy in the books is a renowned eye surgeon.  I never really figured out who she was here. 

She seems to have been some kind of infectious disease specialist.  I get that the character is younger.  But why would she have been invited to be the keynote speaker at some conference in Myanmar?  Have they even established that she's some kind of expert?  It didn't help that she disappeared for two seasons so we barely saw her.

Then she pops up again this season, and the show never even bothered to explain where she's been and what she's been doing and how she and Jack got back together.  Also, did I miss it, or did we not even see a scene of either Jack and/or Cathy finding out that one of the bad guys is her own dad?  Seems kind of important, no?  Was Dad that heartless that he would be OK with Bad Burmese Lady kidnapping and possibly killing his daughter?  That part made no sense to me.

[shrewd.buddha]

Saw it a week ago .. and the best thing I can say about it was that season 4 was much better produced than season 3.  
It appears that having less episodes results in having more money to film in more locations and have more authentic crowd scenes.
The writing/plot seemed pretty boilerplate for the espionage genre. And six episodes did help keep things moving without much filler. 

Jack Ryan was more interesting as a show and a character in Season 1.  Then he had an actual life and had actual ambitions, interests, friends, etc. 
Since Season 2, Jack Ryan is just a stick-figure action star who spouts political and miliary jargon and "goes rogue" on regular basis to save the day -- he is the only one who can figure things out.

In Season 4, Jack Ryan is a mover, shaker and king maker. "I will make you CIA Deputy Chief because it is mine to give away - and I need want to do something else."

I do understand however, that on his eponymous show, Jack Ryan had to be the one grandstanding in front of Congress at the end, delivering the final (telegraphed) twist. 

On 7/18/2023 at 8:25 PM, PrincessPurrsALot said:

Why didn't they try to save Chao Fan? 

I lost any sympathy for Chao Fan when he shot the two casino security men in the back of their heads, who were just doing their security job and attempting to keep him alive.  With all his collateral damage killing, Chao Fan was no better than the other villains, imo.

Of the many tropes and cliches, I am very weary of shows where the heroes kill scores of guards to provide the action show body count. It seems as if anyone wearing a security uniform has automatically crossed some moral line and deserves to be shot dead -- sometimes while just standing guard, not during an exchange of gunfire. 
At least Chavez and November managed to avoid the trope of killing everyone except the villainous kingpins who deserved it most. 

Edited July 28, 2023 by shrewd.buddha
grammar

[Lukeysboat]

On 6/30/2023 at 11:59 PM, dwmarch said:

Cathy's dad shows up, ties Miller to a chair, force-feeds him pills and booze and manages to get away clean even though Chavez should have been right behind Miller

What makes you say the assassin is Cathy’s dad?

[dwmarch]

I will chalk it up to confusing editing although I also thought someone called him Mueller in a scene. I guess he isn't Cathy's dad though since Jack does not seem to recognize him and I believe they met in the first season.

[Lukeysboat]

6 hours ago, dwmarch said:

I also thought someone called him Mueller in a scene.

Maybe you heard Miller, as in CIA director Thomas Miller. 

[sararamos]

On 7/28/2023 at 7:16 PM, shrewd.buddha said:

I lost any sympathy for Chao Fan when he shot the two casino security men in the back of their heads, who were just doing their security job and attempting to keep him alive.  With all his collateral damage killing, Chao Fan was no better than the other villains, imo.

Of the many tropes and cliches, I am very weary of shows where the heroes kill scores of guards to provide the action show body count. It seems as if anyone wearing a security uniform has automatically crossed some moral line and deserves to be shot dead -- sometimes while just standing guard, not during an exchange of gunfire. 
At least Chavez and November managed to avoid the trope of killing everyone except the villainous kingpins who deserved it most. 



By the way, I like the casino that was shown in the series, it’s a nice stop there. I even wanted to go there, although I had no interest in it before. I usually play in online casinos and choose services on the https://casinosanalyzer.com/online-casinos/kansas-usa website, which provides a list of reliable and verified sites absolutely free. In my state, Kansas, the casino is legal, and finding a suitable service would seem very simple. But it is important that many conditions are met, from the reliability of payment systems to the variety of games, and the absence of large initial deposits. Therefore, I do not search for sites myself, but take them from the casino analyzer.

I agree, security guards are already becoming stereotypical targets, and you already feel sorry for them in advance.