S04.E03: The Danger of the Hopeful Sigil

[jewel21]

Quote

Nancy and Ace share a sweet moment while working together to find a way to break the curse. Meanwhile, Carson and Jean continue growing closer, but a recent conversation leaves him with an unsettled feeling. Lastly, Jesse and Birdie devise a plan to teach the school bully a lesson.

Airdate: 06/14/2023

[Lady Calypso]

Ah, of course we're gonna stall this for another ten episodes. I get it, the appeal of star crossed lovers is tempting to explore, but we are in the final episodes. The show knew this would be the final season when writing for this. I'm not sure I'm into the starcrossed lovers angle, even if it's fine for now. I mean, there's communication and all, which is great. On the other hand, it's a stretch to believe that Temperance did THIS much research just to curse Nancy/Ace for reasons.

Bess has become exposition fodder ever since she basically became a witch, and I'm not sure I love that. For shows, it's such an easy way to get out of everything: "I have a spell for that!"

At least Nick finally separated himself from George and seems to have a plot with the council.

I don't really love Carson's plot. I love him admitting he needs time to grieve over Kate's death (wow, it really has only been a year?) but the thing with his girlfriend seemed abrupt. I did appreciate him shutting down Nancy's woe-is-me spiel with "I lost my wife and will never see her again, so TRUST ME, I GET IT." It does seem like they really don't know what they actually want to do with Carson, and haven't since last season, so they're also stalling with him until they come up with something useful for him to do.

I do think this season so far has been better than season 3, but I'm not loving the stall tactics on Nancy/Ace and really want Bess to have a plot not centered on her solving problems through rituals because she's now the new Hannah. However, I DO like Bess teaching Birdie and Jessie about the supernatural. If she becomes a mentor for younger kids (who really aren't much younger than Bess is), that would be a fine plot for her. 

[Jenniferbug]

I'm not buying that all 3 seasons took place within a year. Wasn't it about a year since Kate died in the first season?

I'm also frustrated with the stalling on this love curse. There's really no reason why, in the final season, they couldn't write Ace and Nancy as a couple for 7 measly episodes. The Temperance plot was a mess from start to finish and I'm annoyed it's starting to drag down this season, which has otherwise been good. 

[Lady Calypso]

25 minutes ago, Jenniferbug said:

I'm not buying that all 3 seasons took place within a year. Wasn't it about a year since Kate died in the first season?

It actually IS possible. I'm pretty sure season 2 took place all within about a month, MAYBE a month and a half (there were several season 2 episodes that took place the day after the last), and they've established that there hasn't really been time jumps between seasons. I actually think this five week time jump from season 3 to 4 is the largest time jump we've had. It feels like all the stuff they've gone through shouldn't have happened within a year, but I do think the show has established that each season doesn't seem to last more than a month or two. 

As far as Kate's death, I think it was only a couple of months that had passed in the pilot, but I'd need to double check.

25 minutes ago, Jenniferbug said:

I'm also frustrated with the stalling on this love curse. There's really no reason why, in the final season, they couldn't write Ace and Nancy as a couple for 7 measly episodes. The Temperance plot was a mess from start to finish and I'm annoyed it's starting to drag down this season, which has otherwise been good. 

Agreed with this. The Temperance plot is what dragged season 3 down (amongst other reasons) so I was hoping they'd just do a reset by solving this curse as quickly as possible. They really should have just had them break the curse here.

[quarks]

Well, that was a bit of an emotional rollercoaster, wasn't it?

1. I am kinda puzzled by the living arrangements at the Drew house, and especially by Carson's "the advantages of being an empty nester - no worries about interruptions." I dunno, Carson, I kinda think you should be very worried about interruptions, given how many people keep wandering in and out of that house all the time. Mostly because, last I checked, you aren't exactly an empty nester, unless by empty nester you mean, someone who still lives with his daughter, his daughter's biological father, and quite possibly his daughter's close friend, who was, after all, using the house kitchen and dining room in last week's episode and as far as I can tell, doesn't have any other place to live except for the historical society. So Carson, that's you and at least two and possibly three other people.

Unless all of them have moved out. Which makes me kinda wonder if just possibly those scenes were originally written for a later episode (apart from Carson dealing with his grief, they weren't that related to the rest of the episode) and inserted here to show the difficulties of moving on from true love - but to also show that it can be possible. And to fill up space in the rest of the episode.

2. That said, I did like the way that subplot brought up the way unprocessed grief can just seize you at weird times, over weird things.

3. Why do so many people on this show have just terrible locks, and by people, I specifically mean Bess and the historical society and the artifacts which are so unlocked that a couple of teenagers can just stroll right in and take one.

4. Though maybe it's just a show thing, given that the back door of that antique shop was also unlocked.

5. Which I found mildly suspicious. I mean, despite points 2 and 3 above, we have seen locked doors before on this show. The store that had the item that Nancy and Ace just happened to need in a very short timeframe just happened to have an unlocked door, the way Tristan's parents also rather conveniently keep artifacts around? I sense a possible plot twist here. 

6. And I also have to ask why everyone is suddenly so unsuspicious. First Ryan just accepting the Porsche, then the teen girls just going, oooh, a magic book has opened up RIGHT ON AN EASY SPELL TO DO, how convenient and not at all suspicious AT ALL, and now this. Hmm. Something in the water, perhaps?

7. On that note, keep pursuing this political career, Nick. You will be the mayor of this town by the end of the season, and probably a U.S. Senator not too long from now. Assuming, of course, that the town doesn't die from the poisoned water!

8.  I mean on the one hand, I can't exactly blame Bess for the young bully's newfound interest in the supernatural. On the other hand, dad had a point there - Bess did kinda put all of the teenagers in danger by not keeping things locked up. Not exactly best practices during a major fundraising push, Bess!

9. Carson's scene with Nancy in the hospital - I did NOT sniffle, but great work from both of them.

10. I for one am not at all shocked that for their first date, both Nancy and Ace agree that they shouldn't just get out of town, but get out of the entire country. This is what happens after what is apparently a solid year (thank you for that tidbit, writers, I was kinda wondering, even while also feeling kinda skeptical that all of these various plot/character developments really could have happened in one year, looking at you, Ryan) of supernatural attacks. You really want to get out of town. Really.

11. Although in the case of Ace, maybe not that much! Odd to reach a point where the slacker character who was willing to break Carson out of jail without all that much thought for the consequences is now, yeah, Paris, but - SAFETY FIRST.

12. Does anyone else think it would be easier to break this curse if we knew Ace's last name? Or if at least some of the characters knew?

(I'm waiting for the final gag of this show to reveal that Ace has some massively long hyphenated last name - "Yeah. That's why I don't use that name!" Unless, of course, he turns out to be a Hardy Boy.)

13. But curse or no curse, Nancy, Ace, you had actual fireworks and flowers turning into cute evil moths during your first actual kiss. I say go for it. You only have what, ten episodes left? 

[Shorty186]

Ughhh I *knew* not to have hope. I went into this season with very low expectations on how long it would take to break the curse. But they lulled me into a false sense of security with the first 2 episodes. I just really hope they don't drag this out till the end of the series. I want to see Nace happy, see them bicker, normal couples stuff, not just, "And they lived happily ever after."

I was not super impressed with the Jessie/Birdie subplot. They should know better than try to convince people the supernatural is real. The people of HSB love sticking their heads in the sand when it's no longer life and death for them. 

I'm back to having low expectations for the rest of the series. Cue up the love interests, miscommunication, missed connections, etc. I will be sitting under a storm cloud till the curse is over.

One more thing. The pace of this show frustrates me to no end. There is no reason for time to move so slowly. It's not like the characters are in high school. It's beyond ridiculous that so many things (especially relationships) have happened in less than a year. With all the crazy shenanigans that happen, this is the most unbelievable to me.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Shorty186

[the-grey-lady]

5 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I get it, the appeal of star crossed lovers is tempting to explore, but we are in the final episodes. The show knew this would be the final season when writing for this. I'm not sure I'm into the starcrossed lovers angle, even if it's fine for now.

I agree. If they'd wanted to do a star-crossed lovers angle, I wish they'd done it back in season 3. I don't want to spend the whole season watching Nancy and Ace yearn for each other and then get together in the last 10 minutes.

[tennisgurl]

I just don't know why shows are so allergic to just writing a couple being a couple. Do they also have a curse put on them where if they write a healthy functioning couple being happy together they start coughing up evil water? I appreciate that at least they're openly communicating and are being proactive about trying to break the curse, but I really wish that we could spend our last season watching Nancy and Ace be a couple instead of watching them pine away for each other until the last episode. That kiss was certainly nice though, at least we have that to hang onto. Temperance really is the worst kind of gift. 

People in Horseshoe Bay really do try their best not to notice that magic stuff is happening all over the town, even when its spitting them right in the face, despite their town being built on ghosts stories and creepy magic traditions and holidays. I like the idea of Bess becoming a sort of magic mentor to kids who are trying to understand what goes on in their town, hopefully she can impress upon them the importance of not reading any old spell they find in any old spell book! 

Is Carson really an empty nester? I think that Nancy still lives with him, Ryan definitely does, Nancy's various friends are always running in and out, it feels like the house is more filled than ever. I did like the plot with him trying to really process his grief and how it can hit you at seemingly random times over little things, and his scene with Nancy in the hospital. Yeah, Carson does, in fact, know what its like to not be able to be with someone you love. 

I loved Nick's face when the conspiracy guy jumped right in to support him and go on about the dead rising, his face just screamed "please don't associate yourself with me". Although, which he obviously doesn't have all the details and is running on typical conspiracy theories, he isn't really wrong about people with magic powers causing trouble and zombies walking around town. Then he basically signed up for the Nick for Mayor campaign, and it seems like Nick might give it a shot. That's a lot for someone so young and with no experience in politics, but I can see him pulling that off, and the town having someone making choices who knows about the supernatural is a good thing. 

I still have no idea what is going on with this evil water and what it actually does, but I'm interested in finding out. Other than my annoyance about this Ace/Nancy stuff and the lack of Ryan in the last two episodes, I am really liking this season.

Edited June 15, 2023 by tennisgurl

[Jenniferbug]

13 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

It actually IS possible. I'm pretty sure season 2 took place all within about a month, MAYBE a month and a half (there were several season 2 episodes that took place the day after the last), and they've established that there hasn't really been time jumps between seasons. I actually think this five week time jump from season 3 to 4 is the largest time jump we've had. It feels like all the stuff they've gone through shouldn't have happened within a year, but I do think the show has established that each season doesn't seem to last more than a month or two. 

As far as Kate's death, I think it was only a couple of months that had passed in the pilot, but I'd need to double check.

I've been rewatching old episodes as background noise to my workday, and I thought they'd say things like "last year when my mom died" but I'd have to go back to the pilot to check. I think an episode today said Nancy was at Winter Formal when she died, so assuming the pilot took place in early fall, she could have been dead less than a year at that point. I don't remember why I have the impression the pilot was late summer/early fall- maybe some reference to moving away to college or the sea water ceremony? I can't remember off hand if they've ever mentioned holidays or seasons that would mark time more specifically. 

10 hours ago, Shorty186 said:

One more thing. The pace of this shows frustrates me to no end. There is no reason for time to move so slowly. It's not like the characters are in high school. It's beyond ridiculous that so many things (especially relationships) have happened in less than a year. Will all the crazy shenanigans that happen, this is the most unbelievable to me.

I'm a bit baffled by this decision by the writers too. Does it truly matter if they're 18 versus 21 at this point? Why not let them age? As it stands, it is kind of funny to think how quickly relationships move. Or today I watched the episode where Ace is in the car accident with Laura and has a broken arm that in show time heals in a few days tops! 

[thuganomics85]

Damn, I was really hoping they would actually break the curse already.  Would have been refreshing and even kind of original if they did.  Instead, their first real attempt fails, Nancy's life is in danger because of it, and now it is Ace that wants to quit over the fear of losing her.  Eh, clearly a stalling tactic.  I imagine it will be solved eventually.  If I was a betting man, I would bet that Ace's air balloon dream will happen come finale time (unless they go Nancy's route, but I can only see that happening if the actors are CGIed into Paris because no way the show has the budget to actually go there.)

Always good to remember that the fine folks of Horseshoe Bay can be the biggest obstacles on the show.  Wherever it is arrogant politicians or overbearing teachers/parents targeting the wrong people, the Drew Crew probably almost prefers it when they face down mere monsters!

I guess it was only a matter of time before Nick and George have it out a bit after being on good terms for a bit.  I do think their friendship is sound and a possible rekindled romance could happen as well, but I understand where Nick is coming from about how they really haven't handle the breakup in ways normal couples do and that can be an issue if it isn't addressed properly.

Looks like Carson is ready to address his grief over losing Kate.  I guess we'll see if this effects his relationship with Jean long term.  Hope not because I'm all for more Erica Cerra!

Love you, Bess, but maybe invest in locks for your doors that happen house possible dangerous, evil magical artifacts!

[Lady Calypso]

11 hours ago, Jenniferbug said:

I've been rewatching old episodes as background noise to my workday, and I thought they'd say things like "last year when my mom died" but I'd have to go back to the pilot to check. I think an episode today said Nancy was at Winter Formal when she died, so assuming the pilot took place in early fall, she could have been dead less than a year at that point. I don't remember why I have the impression the pilot was late summer/early fall- maybe some reference to moving away to college or the sea water ceremony? I can't remember off hand if they've ever mentioned holidays or seasons that would mark time more specifically. 

Yeah, the timeline is hard to keep track with, for sure. 

As far as I remember:

• Kate died sometime during winter, after the winter formal (which could have been in January/Feb). So, if Kate died late winter, and even if season 1 took place in September/October, that would be seven'ish months from Kate's passing which I think would still have the first three seasons fall under the same year. 
• Season 1 took place over, I believe, a few weeks. I can't recall if season 1 had a lot of time in between episodes.
• Season 2's start was actually supposed to be the end of season 1, so that carried over into episode 5; each episode took place within roughly a day or two.
• I think they did a time jump after 2x05 because of the George/Odette possession, but it was only three-four weeks.
• Second half of season 2 took place within three-four weeks as well (almost all the episodes took place one day after the other; there was very little time jumping as far as I remember and the timeline may be even a little less).
• Season 3, I can't recall if they did a major time jump, but also likely took place within a couple of months, at most, but possibly less.
• Season 4 had a five week time jump, leading into this episode, which is less than a week since 4x01.

So, yeah, the timeline oddly still lines up, even if there was six-seven months from Kate's death to the pilot, due to the limited time jumps they did in between seasons and even in between episodes. I do think there could have only been five months that have passed between the pilot and now, as unbelievable as it seems with all the shit the Drew Crew has been put through.

[Jenniferbug]

That does seem crazy but it seems to track. Nancy mentioned in the episode with the mental facility that the seance they did with the coins was September 10th and that was episode 7 of season 1. Weird choice by the writers to have such a condensed time frame, but I guess the math works out after all! 

[Diapason Untuned]

This episode brings up a good point that I hope the show follows up on some more, which is how incredibly careless people, even those who supposedly know better, are with the supernatural.

Darlene had that demon stored in a cabinet, Ace and Nancy were just walking around with it (around kids, as Ace himself pointed out) and George's sister and her friend were not only trying to show off with the supernatural, they just followed the instruction of a mysterious book without even asking anyone.

Avery's dad had a horrible argument, but his kid was endangered there. I just wish the show had the guts to actually let him run with that argument.

[Shorty186]

I found a timeline breakdown someone did online and it's incredible. The pilot starts on August 31st when Tiffany is murdered, and after the 1 month time jump in the S3 finale, it's only January 19th. Aside from the incredible breakneck speed, it definitely doesn't look like winter in Maine, although the coast is supposed to be warmer.

There's been no actual death date given for Kate on the show, only that she died in the winter, so that could have been Jan/Feb 2019, which would lineup with it being a year later in January 2020.

So seasons 1-3 took place over less than five months. There are SO many things that happened during that time to make that ridiculous, but just in the last episode with Ace telling Nancy they were "just friends" for a really long time ... uhh, no you weren't? But I digress. I really do love this show, I'm sure this is just residual grumpiness over it being the last season.

[Jenniferbug]

10 hours ago, Shorty186 said:

I found a timeline breakdown someone did online and it's incredible. The pilot starts on August 31st when Tiffany is murdered, and after the 1 month time jump in the S3 finale, it's only January 19th. Aside from the incredible breakneck speed, it definitely doesn't look like winter in Maine, although the coast is supposed to be warmer.

There's been no actual death date given for Kate on the show, only that she died in the winter, so that could have been Jan/Feb 2019, which would lineup with it being a year later in January 2020.

So seasons 1-3 took place over less than five months. There are SO many things that happened during that time to make that ridiculous, but just in the last episode with Ace telling Nancy they were "just friends" for a really long time ... uhh, no you weren't? But I digress. I really do love this show, I'm sure this is just residual grumpiness over it being the last season.

Oh interesting! I'll have to see if I can find that. Yeah I hate to fixate on the timeline but it just doesn't work for me emotionally even if there's nothing to truly contradict it. But if that's what they wrote then that's what it is whether I like it or not!

[quarks]

Yeah - it just feels as if a number of character developments on this show - Nancy accepting Ryan as a dad, George's sisters bonding with Nick - needed more than a year.

And of course the fact that I've been watching this show for four years now just adds to that feeling, whatever the script says.

[peachmangosteen]

Yea, I'm personally just going to pretend it's been longer. The relationships sort of don't make sense if I don't lol.

[UnoAgain]

On 6/15/2023 at 1:11 PM, Shorty186 said:

Ughhh I *knew* not to have hope. I went into this season with very low expectations on how long it would take to break the curse. But they lulled me into a false sense of security with the first 2 episodes. I just really hope they don't drag this out till the end of the series. I want to see Nace happy, see them bicker, normal couples stuff, not just, "And they lived happily ever after."

I was not super impressed with the Jessie/Birdie subplot. They should know better than try to convince people the supernatural is real. The people of HSB love sticking their heads in the sand when it's no longer life and death for them. 

I'm back to having low expectations for the rest of the series. Cue up the love interests, miscommunication, missed connections, etc. I will be sitting under a storm cloud till the curse is over.

One more thing. The pace of this show frustrates me to no end. There is no reason for time to move so slowly. It's not like the characters are in high school. It's beyond ridiculous that so many things (especially relationships) have happened in less than a year. With all the crazy shenanigans that happen, this is the most unbelievable to me.

I had already taken a step back when the show did the oh so predictable move of having Nick and Nancy only to inexplicably end it and start foreshadowing Nace...and I really like Ace..but as it's happened to me before seeing the black guy shuffled off to the side as a love interest for well a handsome white bloke..I shifted in and out of paying attn to the show..but it's wild that all of this from Nancy and Nick in his garage to now has been like a year and change