Why Grammar Matters: A Place To Discuss Matters Of Grammar

[EtheltoTillie]

@shapeshifter A follow up--copy editor's golden rule:  when in doubt recast the whole sentence. 

Edited November 18 by EtheltoTillie

[Milburn Stone]

@shapeshifter, although the way you wrote it definitely sounds wrong, it is right.

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I just posted an uneditable, undeletable comment elsewhere that included:

• "One of several troubleshooting thoughts that comes to mind"

It probably should have been:

• "One of several troubleshooting thoughts that come to mind"

Right?
Or…?

3 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

@shapeshifter A follow up--copy editor's golden rule:  when in doubt recast the whole sentence. 

23 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

@shapeshifter, although the way you wrote it definitely sounds wrong, it is right.

Yes to both of the above. In hindsight it should have just been:

• Try this…

 

[meep.meep]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I just posted an uneditable, undeletable comment elsewhere that included:

• "One of several troubleshooting thoughts that comes to mind"

It probably should have been:

• "One of several troubleshooting thoughts that come to mind"

Right?
Or…?

Shouldn't we try to be less passive?  "one of several troubleshooting thoughts coming to mind"

But...you probably mean "troubling" not "troubleshooting" - Troubleshooting is a systematic process for identifying and fixing the cause of a problem.

[Zella]

10 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

Shouldn't we try to be less passive?

Just an FYI, but there was nothing passive in that original sentence. Grammatically, passive voice has a BE verb combined with a past participle verb. That sentence has neither. 

[shapeshifter]

7 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

Shouldn't we try to be less passive?  "one of several troubleshooting thoughts coming to mind"

But...you probably mean "troubling" not "troubleshooting" - Troubleshooting is a systematic process for identifying and fixing the cause of a problem.

Actually, it was about troubleshooting a technical problem about posting comments on another social media site.

Anyhoo, the person replied that they didn't understand my suggestion, and gave some more information about the problem.
So I just replied:

• My directions were not clear. Sorry.
  Just try this:
  1) After you [blah blah blah]
  2) [blah blah blah]
  3) [blah blah blah] and hit Submit.
  🤞

Thanks to everyone here. 
Syntax does matter!

[SoMuchTV]

22 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

But...you probably mean "troubling" not "troubleshooting" - Troubleshooting is a systematic process for identifying and fixing the cause of a problem.

“Troubling thoughts” and “troubleshooting thoughts” are two very different things, and I’m going to assume @shapeshifter knew which she was talking about here. But sounds like the situation was resolved satisfactorily. 

And imo someone who’s looking for troubleshooting assistance is in no position to criticize the grammar of said troubleshooting assistant! 

[shapeshifter]

1 minute ago, SoMuchTV said:

And imo someone who’s looking for troubleshooting assistance is in no position to criticize the grammar of said troubleshooting assistant! 

They were just confused and not critical.
I was self-critiquing as soon as my post was submitted, because I knew it was confusing. At first I focused on a possible grammatical error, but now I realize it was mostly just too many extraneous, distracting words.

I really appreciate being able to edit our posts here, but posting places where editing is not an option is teaching me to edit first, post second, which is kind of the 21st century version of "measure twice; cut once."😉

Hopefully my shorter reply will help. 

Thanks again, everyone.

[Milburn Stone]

Re passive voice, I feel like fifty years ago there was this dogmatic anti-passive movement, and people who aspire to be good writers (and maybe more to the point, are nervous that they might be bad writers) have been treating it like the plague ever since. Passive voice exists for a reason! Writers should evaluate which voice, active or passive, better communicates their intended tone on a case by case basis. Don't throw away a tool in the toolbox for no good reason.

[annzeepark914]

On 11/18/2024 at 12:18 PM, shapeshifter said:

I just posted an uneditable, undeletable comment elsewhere that included:

• "One of several troubleshooting thoughts that comes to mind"

It probably should have been:

• "One of several troubleshooting thoughts that come to mind"

Right?
Or…?

IMO:

"One (of several troubleshooting thoughts) that comes to mind"

[Milburn Stone]

19 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

IMO:

"One (of several troubleshooting thoughts) that comes to mind"

Or, in keeping with @EtheltoTillie's advice:

Several troubleshooting thoughts come to mind. Here's one.

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 11/16/2024 at 5:11 AM, shapeshifter said:

to correct all the spelling and grammar mistakes they find in graffiti

Can they pivot to a worldwide presence and correct the mistakes in memes?

I've been known to use a Sharpie to correct interpretation panels or whatever they're called at places like national parks, but a few years ago a couple of people got arrested for doing that, so I'm pretty careful about where I do it now.

What's annoying is that I once came across one where someone had corrected it incorrectly.  Like they put an apostrophe somewhere where it didn't actually call for one.  That's the problem with self-appointed grammar/punctuation police.

 

[shapeshifter]

51 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

What's annoying is that I once came across one where someone had corrected it incorrectly.  Like they put an apostrophe somewhere where it didn't actually call for one.  That's the problem with self-appointed grammar/punctuation police.

At least my added apostrophe was for a sign at my condo's pool that read:
“Its 5 o'clock somewhere”
and now reads: 
“It's 5 o'clock somewhere”

Perhaps we need to establish a Guild of Public Grammar Correctors.

[Anduin]

We were all taught I before E except after C. But I was just writing freighter and it looked wrong. I had to check. EI! Someone's going to tell me how it came over from the French sometime in the 15th century. Go for it, but I just wanted to point out the weirdness. And there's another one!

[shapeshifter]

34 minutes ago, Anduin said:

We were all taught I before E except after C. But I was just writing freighter and it looked wrong.

I've also heard:

• I before E except after C, or when sounding like A, as in neighbor or weigh.

But now I see there is an even longer version:

• I before E except after C,
  or when sounding like A,
  as in neighbor or weigh,
  but seizure and seize 
  do what they please.
        (see Wikipedia)

I was the 4th grade spelling champion over half a century ago after much coaching with flash cards by my Mom.
Nowadays I Google a spelling at least once a day, and I'm so grateful to be able to do it.

Edited 5 hours ago by shapeshifter

[EtheltoTillie]

My last name has ei pronounced as A. No one can pronounce it correctly on first meeting/reading. 

That’s what you get for how they spelled things at Ellis Island.