S09.E07: Wildest Dreams

[Trini]

Iris is visited by Nia Nal (guest star Nicole Maines), as she needs Iris' help. When Iris and Nia fall into a fever dream and explore different possibilities for their lives, Barry, Chester, Allegra and Cecile desperately try to help them. Meanwhile, Mark entertains Khione but they have different ideas of what is fun, leaving Khione to feel that Mark is trying to make her something she is not.

Jesse Warn directed the episode written by Kristen Kim & Jeff Hersh.

Airdate: 3/29/2023

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Trini

[scarynikki12]

Hi Nia! Who seems to find herself in a zombie movie.

Ok Blue Eyes is reminding me of Shadow Weaver from She-Ra.

Hey they let Iris keep her vacation hair! I think this is the first time that's happened.

Ok does Allegra have money riding on Iris hitting the book's stepping stones? She's more excited than Iris when they happen.

Ew, Blue Streaks and Chilldude? Even if it is just a dream. Yuck. Also, Chilldude, lusting after Frost's doppelgänger (even if I do think she'll turn out to be an amnesiac and merged Caitlin and Frost) is BEYOND creepy. 

Brag Nia! You're awesome and everyone should know.

Shadow Weaver, I agree Nia is awesome but stalking is bad.

Ok I know it's to drive home that Nia is a cop in Iris' dream but that badge placement is sloppy. 

Flash stop reminding me of Snart. I miss him and you're being mean.

Shadow Weaver I know you're a bad guy but don't hurt Iris or Nia. Go back to Etheria and pretend you can take She-Ra.

Kara, Brainy, and J'onn are off-world? I was going to suggest they have an arrangement where one is on Earth at all time but that would include Nia so, technically, they're not doing anything wrong. Still would have liked to see at least one.

Chilldude if you want to bone Blue Streaks (please don't) you should at least try to care about things she's interested and find common ground.

Hey the zombies are back with Shadow Weaver.

Barry why did you show Iris that checklist? Now you've got her second guessing her talents and accomplishments.

At least the people in the bar agree Chilldude is creepy. (They're hilarious)

Chilldude is a walking Am I The Asshole post from Reddit.

You're still in the dream realm because Shadow Weaver has plans. Don't worry y'all she always has plans for She-Ra and always loses.

Cecile can sense Shadow Weaver now? I'm honestly surprised they never gave her a spinoff what with her being superpowered beyond Barry and possibly Clark and Kara.

Ew at least remove the webs with a stick Nia.

Her temperature is 105 and she isn't covered in ice? Why did they send Chilldude on a creepy date with Blue Streaks when he could be here actually using his powers to help?

So Nia has to face Shadow Weaver alone and she turns out to be the first Dreamer? What in the Buffy season 7?

I wish the knock at the door was Snart or the Legends.

If Chilldude really is leaving (pleeeeeeeease!) then JUST LEAVE. Don't spend all night saying goodbye. Do like Will Hunting and just not show up one day.

So Blue Streaks ruins brunch and everyone's fine with it. She sucks too.

[Primal Slayer]

What a...nightmare of an episode. 

It just felt so empty and half-baked. It was like they needed yet another way to make Iris into the "best person in the world". She's always been a great character but barely anyone on this show knows how to properly write her so they give us these episodes where its "I've been a superhero for 5 years but it wasnt until Iris came into my life that I was able to realize my full potential". 

It seems like every single episode this season has been Iris doubting some part of her life. 7 episodes in, of a 13 episode final season. Thats all she's been doing. How about you let us see the woman be in her prime, chasing down stories that don't just involve her husband and breaking them before anyone else does instead of just telling us that she has one of the most successful publishing companies in the world. 

We trade one "will they/wont they" love story for another...why the hell do we need all of this with Blue streaks and Chillblaine? Why is he even with the team after betraying them yet again? 

[cambridgeguy]

The First Dreamer decided that Nia needed Iris, a woman she barely knows, to help her see the light?  Seriously?  Plus let's be honest, Iris has absolutely used the unique advantage that being Barry's wife entails.  She'd never have met Sue Dearbon and gotten her as a super wealthy benefactor, she wouldn't have all of the inside info, etc.  There's nothing wrong with that, but let's not pretend she built her company from scratch with nothing but grit and a can-do attitude.

I don't think it's ever been so obvious that they have no idea what to do with Panabaker, but are unwilling or unable to reduce her to glorified extra, so she gets a pointless storyline that's separate from everyone else. 

Was this the second episode where Barry avoided suiting up?  A show titled the Flash should, you know, have the Flash doing stuff.

[Trini]

13 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

It just felt so empty and half-baked.

It was an Iris-centric A-plot, so I wanted to like this more, but it was kinda lackluster. I liked that the main plot had women at the center, but Iris and Nia have never interacted or had a relationship established before this episode, so it lacked emotional investment. It was nice to see glimpses of alternate timelines, but I felt like they could have explored that more; especially since nothing was really happening outside the dreams.

The show has always had some cringe expository dialogue, but it shouldn't be this bad in Season 9. Also Team Flash was really useless here - even Barry surprisingly - so I think they should have just had them in the dreams more. The show's problem has always been keeping people around too long (the opposite of the other Arrow-verse shows); they could have just had a few castmembers sit this one out. Like Cecile and her 'useful-only-when-we-say-so' powers.
 

13 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

I don't think it's ever been so obvious that they have no idea what to do with Panabaker, but are unwilling or unable to reduce her to glorified extra, so she gets a pointless storyline that's separate from everyone else. 

13 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

We trade one "will they/wont they" love story for another...why the hell do we need all of this with Blue streaks and Chillblaine? Why is he even with the team after betraying them yet again? 

The same thing every other season. I fwd'd through Chillame and Klipins, but saw enough to shake my head at them throwing the newest man at her for the 4th time.

[Proteus]

Episode 7 of the final season & Wallace is doing filler episodes. Only 6 episodes left and the final season still has no direction or set up for the big bad or how the shows supposed to end. Wallace is really the worst thing that ever happened to this show.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Proteus

[bettername2come]

Ok, once again Iris is interacting with a woman from another show she's never met before. I appreciate that they at least used the mimosa brunch to introduce them offscreen. I like Iris dreaming herself as Captain. I love that Barry brought Iris cheese fries. He's good hubby.

I feel like Barry should've been more surprised to find Nia with Iris. There was definitely a parallel to Kara and Barry in the musical. I liked Barry trying to call "the League" for help.

Chillblaine complaining that they should only do exciting things bothered me. It's rude to Khione, but also you know Frost dragged him to some art show he didn't want to go to. The entire bar commenting on Mark's attempts. Not sure how I feel about that. They were right and it was fun to see him getting picked on, and part of me thinks it was probably a chance to get extras who normally don't speak a chance before the show ends, but it was just cheesy.

Ok, wasn't expecting Cecile to show up 2/3 of the way through the show.  

Nia's story didn't feel like it needed closure. And I say this as one of the people who wanted to throw her on the Waverider when Supergirl ended. 

They better be saving that flash-frozen brunch for another time. 

On 3/29/2023 at 9:00 PM, scarynikki12 said:

Her temperature is 105 and she isn't covered in ice? Why did they send Chilldude on a creepy date with Blue Streaks when he could be here actually using his powers to help?

Thank you! Drove me crazy. Sure it might not've worked because alien dream magic, but they should've tried. 

[thuganomics85]

Yeah, it was great seeing Nia/Nicole Maines again, but it felt kind of silly to have her main purpose be to prop up Iris, despite the fact we've barely seen them interact before (no, show.  Telling us that apparently Iris is having mimosas with Nia, Ryan, Kara, and Alex does not count!  And kind of lame that they aren't inviting the Legend women to join them on their apparently women only brunches.)  And even though I like Iris/Candice Patton, this feels like a story that has been told already; her reluctance over following "the plan", her insecurities about being "The Flash's wife"; and I don't understand why it needs to be told again: especially since this is the final season.  It has been strangely lackluster so far.  Say what you will about some of the issues with Arrow and Supergirl's  final seasons, but at least it felt like those had big stakes and an endgame in sight.  This is strangely feeling like everyone's just chillin and taking things as they come.  Weird.

Of course, I'd still take all of that over all of the shit with Chilllame and Khione.  I just don't care.  Don't care that he was being a dick and basically trying to mold Khione into being someone she isn't like the creep he is.  Don't care about her grand speech in front of a bunch of bystanders and glorified extras getting to mug for the camera (but hopefully they got some nice bonuses on their paychecks!)  Don't even care that he saw the error in his ways and is now off to fine himself and hopefully learn to live his life without Frost.  I Just.Don't.Care.  Of all the secondary characters to elevated for the final season, they had to pick this tool.

Really hope this was the low point and it gets better from here.

[tennisgurl]

I really wanted to like the plot with Nia and Iris, as Nia is one of my favorite Supergirl characters (I was all for getting her and Brainy seats in the Waverider when their show ended) and I am always happy to have an Iris centered story, but this just wasn't very good. There is really nothing we learned here that we haven't already explored, Nia struggles connecting with her legacy and Iris feels insecure about just being The Flash's wife and her feeling like her destiny is too set in stone, none of this needed an entire dream universe episode. I like the idea of using this show as a way to bring in characters from ended CW shows and get them some closure, but they haven't been using the characters all that well. It was great seeing Ryan, but we didn't get any updates on her, her story, her supporting cast, or even why she disappeared. It was great seeing Nia, but we also didn't get any real updates on her, her story, the rest of the cast, or why everyone else is off planet except for her. I was hoping to get to hear about Brainy and how things were going with him staying in the past when he was supposed to leave and if that's affected anything, but we didn't get any of that. Nia doesn't really need closure at this point. Plus, as much as I love Iris, it seems so weird that Nia apparently needed to meet with a woman she hardly knows to get her powers running smoothly again. 

This does not at all seem like a final season except for the parade of random guest stars, nothing is actually happening. There is no big villain, not many big call backs to the shows history, no epic story or stakes, its just a bunch of random stuff and padding. There is seemingly no momentum whatsoever as we head towards the end of the show. 

I especially cant believe that we are spending so much time with Chilllame and Caitlin's most recent alter ego, with so little time left in the show. I would even rather watch the boring Will They/Wont They between Allegra and Chester than watch them, that's how much I don't want Chilllame on my screen. Of all the supporting and minor characters to keep around, why this loser? Why would they ever trust him again after he betrayed them for the 10th time? What does he even bring to the team? Even in this episode where we're supposed to feel bad for him he's still being a dick, trying to turn Blue Streaks into his dead girlfriend. It doesn't help that he's so tied to Frost, when we hardly actually saw any of their relationship and how much they were supposedly in love, so its hard for me to really care about how sad he is. Blue Streaks being a black hole of not charisma doesn't help, its like all the show can do for Caitlin is give her more men and lame alter egos. I would be thrilled that Chilllame is finally going, but the show has teased his exit too many times, I refuse to get excited about him actually being gone for real. 

Edited April 3, 2023 by tennisgurl

[Trini]

On 3/30/2023 at 5:43 PM, Proteus said:

Episode 7 of the final season & Wallace is doing filler episodes. Only 6 episodes left and the final season still has no direction or set up for the big bad or how the shows supposed to end. Wallace is really the worst thing that ever happened to this show.

6 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

This does not at all seem like a final season except for the parade of random guest stars, nothing is actually happening. There is no big villain, not many big call backs to the shows history, no epic story or stakes, its just a bunch of random stuff and padding. There is seemingly no momentum whatsoever as we head towards the end of the show. 

Like, I'm not even opposed to "filler" on principle, but it has to at least be interesting or fun, or we learn something new. But these feel like they literally wrote them to justify the actors' paychecks, drop a couple easter eggs maybe, but there's no larger purpose.

Again, if the A-plot wasn't going to advance a larger arc, then I would have liked to see even more dream scenarios. The cast seemed to be having fun in the Jitters AU; we could have seen them in other careers too.
 

On 4/1/2023 at 2:52 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Say what you will about some of the issues with Arrow and Supergirl's  final seasons, but at least it felt like those had big stakes and an endgame in sight.  This is strangely feeling like everyone's just chillin and taking things as they come.  Weird.

Stargirl's last season, Black Lightning's last season, Kung Fu's (probably) last season; literally everyone else has done a better job of leading up to a conclusion -- for the show itself, or the characters. I didn't agree with every writing decision, but for the most part, it didn't seem like they were wasting time.

And the 'we only have X episodes', 'the actors needed time off', 'we only had X of budget' excuses aren't flying with me because I've seen so many other shows deal with the same issues MUCH better.

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Trini

[Cthulhudrew]

On 3/31/2023 at 4:03 PM, bettername2come said:

.. and part of me thinks it was probably a chance to get extras who normally don't speak a chance before the show ends, but it was just cheesy.

Ha! You could be right!

"Who still needs their SAG card? Joe? You've been with us three seasons - you get a line! Judy - you get a line! Taft-Hartleys for everyone!!!"

[Lantern7]

I'm in agreement that we're running out of episodes to a point where we don't need filler. This wasn't bad filler per se, but I feel that if we had ore episodes, bringing in characters from the close-to-dead Arrowverse seems . . . . excessive. First Ryan, then Nia. Just push Barry towards his final destiny.

And kill off Mark. That too. Big, ugly, brutal death where no one sheds a tear, and Kione is all, "Well, that happened." Kill his useless-to-the-plot ass.

[cambridgeguy]

14 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Of all the supporting and minor characters to keep around, why this loser?

The cynic in me would say it's because none of the other cast wants to get tied up with DP's story, and she can't just monologue to herself.  The vast majority of Khione's non-exposition scenes have involved Mark.  Now that he's off to find himself, which lucky person will fill the gap?

[Featherhat]

On 4/4/2023 at 12:36 PM, cambridgeguy said:

The cynic in me would say it's because none of the other cast wants to get tied up with DP's story, and she can't just monologue to herself.  The vast majority of Khione's non-exposition scenes have involved Mark.  Now that he's off to find himself, which lucky person will fill the gap?

I mean yeah, giving DP someone to be in her completely separate scenes is probably it but he's not a good option for it even then since we never saw much of his and Frost's relationship, they don't have any chemistry and very few people even care. If they wanted to give Frost a regular or semi regular to play off they should have developed someone like him years ago (but not actually this character or actor) or brought back a different version of Ronnie. 

I like Nia a lot and will never say no to Iris having an episode but as everyone else has said this was filler and worse the plot was IMO a bit boring and lame. I don't mind characters having met off screen but I do mind if a character is only brought in to only randomly big up one character as the bestest of all time when the writers could have actually done their job and *shown* that via the episode. Also if the audience hasn't seen them connect on screen before *and* we don't have any actual wrap up/update of the other character post show it becomes both meaningless and pointless. 

[Trini]

3 hours ago, Featherhat said:

I mean yeah, giving DP someone to be in her completely separate scenes is probably it but he's not a good option for it even then since we never saw much of his and Frost's relationship, they don't have any chemistry and very few people even care. If they wanted to give Frost a regular or semi regular to play off they should have developed someone like him years ago (but not actually this character or actor) or brought back a different version of Ronnie. 

Maybe they could have done an arc with Carla Tannhauser instead -- the only other character (alive) connected to Caitlin 3.0 outside of Team Flash.