Going Out With a Whimper: Season 7 Discussion

[AnimeMania]

S07.E18: Chapter One Hundred and Thirty-Five: For a Better Tomorrow

COLD WAR PARANOIA – As the gang gets swept up in Cold War paranoia, a new mystery brewing in Riverdale leads Jughead (Cole Sprouse) to suspect it may have ties to a string of suspicious murders in town. Archie (KJ Apa) reconsiders his future after Uncle Frank (guest star Ryan Robbins) gives him a hard time about his poetry writing, and a shocking discovery involving her family shakes Betty (Lili Reinhart) to her core.

Premiere Date: Wednesday, August 9, 2023     9pm    CW 

[Bill1978]

So, it does seem that the writers are capable of remembering what they have previously written. Lots of little plot points wrapped up and explained in this episode I'm assuming because someone on the writing team pointed out to the rest of the team, they only have 3 episodes left.

I did not have Ma and Pa Blossom being Russian spies on my bingo card OR Ethel being half-Cooper. Glad they explained The Milkman storyline and it actually all made sense (for a Riverdale plot).

Glad Frank got shown the door...finally. And welcome back bunker, nice to see you again. Maybe Moose is hiding out down there?

Not sure that the episode really needed to be in black and white. But as I said last week, this season just seems to exist so the writers can finally have their rejected pitch stories be approved.

And what pray tell did the preview show for next week? That the writers finally remembered about the cliffhanger from last season. I still scratch my head over the fact the writers knew in advance it was the final season and still chose the path they did to bring closure. Definitely going to be a rushed ending I say. 

[ruby24]

Ok, so Jughead's going to get his memory back next episode, the rest of them in the finale I guess.

So I'm guessing we're getting a flashback to them as 50's teens, but with memories restored of the past 6 seasons.

I don't know what real purpose this serves anymore. Especially because they've done such different things with each season since Season 5 especially. I mean, as just one example, will Toni remembering that she married and had a kid with Fangs change anything with her and Cheryl, because it sure seems like it should! Season 6 Toni loved Fangs and seemed to be completely over Cheryl- if she remembers that it ought to mean something. I would think.

I don't know- I think I prefer my original idea that they cast a wide net and explore alternate endings in different Archie "universes," so that everyone can get their own pick and choose ending somewhat.

I still don't see how doing this is going to satisfy anyone because there's not enough time to do anything with it. So they're all going to remember in one episode that they were superpowered beings? So what? I think I would prefer that they NOT remember that, tbh.

 

[Dobian]

I find it amazing that after sixteen years, that was the first time Cheryl overheard her parents speaking Russian.  And after thousands of visits to her father's den over the years, that was the first time she noticed a draft coming from the panel and opening it.

I rewrote the script for when Cheryl brings up Veronica to Jughead in the darkroom:

Cheryl: So, are you and Veronica really an item now?

Jughead: Yeah.

Cheryl: Because the two of you have absolutely no chemistry.

Jughead: I know.

Cheryl: Like, none.  Like, the principal and Dr. Werther have more chemistry.

Jughead: Wow, what exposure did you use on this one here?

If they're going to do the whole "gang gets their memories back in the 50s" thing, I guess they would have a lot of fun with that.  Veronica could travel to England and discover the Beatles.  Archie could stop Kennedy's assassination.  Jughead could do acid with Ken Kesey.  Betty could start the bra burning movement.  A happy ending for everyone.

[the-grey-lady]

1 hour ago, Dobian said:

Cheryl: So, are you and Veronica really an item now?

Jughead: Yeah.

Cheryl: Because the two of you have absolutely no chemistry.

Jughead: I know.

Cheryl: Like, none.  Like, the principal and Dr. Werther have more chemistry.

Jughead: Wow, what exposure did you use on this one here?

This has me in stitches.

Because it's true.

[thuganomics85]

Hey, we actually got a scene with all of the main crew together!  I guess despite whatever possible drama issues that might be going on with Cole Sprouse and the rest of the cast, they were able to play nice this go around.  Also a decent amount of Jughead/Cheryl scenes in general, so maybe it's just a case of "We're almost at the end, guys, lets just get this done!" when it comes to whatever behind the scene issues there might be.  Man, I so want to read a tell all book about this show's production!

At least they seem to stitch together enough of the subplots to make sense by this show's standards and have something resembling solid resolutions.  Turns out that the Blossoms were actually Russian spies this entire time and were working on their own atomic bomb that they were going to give to the Russians.  And both Ethel's parents and Jughead's mentor had stumbled upon it in their own way, so the milkman was actually an agent sent to kill them.  Sure, not the weirdest thing to happen on this show.  I'll take it!

Meanwhile, even Alice and her behavior has an explanation as it turns out that Ethel was secretly Hal's daughter this entire time due to an affair, and the reason that Alice was so hard on both Betty and Polly is because she never got over that betrayal and was fearful they could head down a similar path.  Still a lot of stuff Alice will have to walk about for any kind of reconciliation to feel earned in my opinion (especially that slap), but it's not that far out of the realm of possibility.

Mary finally shows Frank the door.  Weird that Frank initially started out as one of the better adults here, but he kind of became the worst these past two seasons.  Then again, it's not like this show really ever put that much effort into the character in general.

There really was no reason for all of this to be black and white, but who am I question this show's judgement anymore?!

Really am curious to see what they will do with these final episodes.

[Dobian]

It was fun watching the show rip off The Americans for the Blossoms plot.  The difference is it was fun to hang out with the Jennings, even though they were Russian spies.  The Blossoms?  Uh...no.

[rmontro]

I thought it was kind of funny that Jughead was able to trade some Pep comics to the coroner for some information.

[Affogato]

Here is a show that takes its episode titles from movies and has referenced comics, movies and books with many plots and details over the course of the show. Jughead, as the avatar of the showrunner, writes pulp novels and watches movies, and writes comics and idolizes writers like Rayberry. This episode references several '50s black and white B horror movies, complete with splashed movie titles, and starts with them watching the B movies in the movie theater. I wonder why some of the show is in black and white? It is just so random. Clearly it must be because there is no continuity in the storytelling and the writers are bad.

Moving right along.

So, who is going to leave to make their fortunes next? Ethel this week, off to seek her fortune without graduating. I liked how it became colorized as they drove out of Riverdale. Yellow car. Follow the yellow brick road.  Cole Sprouse's expression was bittersweet there, although I assume his distance from the others is partially because they are in memory, but he looked so happy remembering having everyone together watching movies.

I wonder if Tabitha leaving changed his story much, because I thought they actually seemed like the only relationship in the story that might last a long time (excepting Toni and Fang and Kevin because of the child).

Glad Frank can move in with his friend, also kicked out for something or another, and still come to family dinner. Glad the blossoms were outed by Cheryl and Jughead.

Generally have liked this season best and will miss it when it is gone.

15 hours ago, rmontro said:

I thought it was kind of funny that Jughead was able to trade some Pep comics to the coroner for some information.

I was happy to see the coroner again before the end of the show!

[Affogato]

On 8/11/2023 at 1:22 AM, the-grey-lady said:

This has me in stitches.

Because it's true.

My impression was that Jughead and Veronica, especially this time, were not supposed to have chemistry. Jughead is acting awkward and uncomfortable. It may be a business arrangement. Maybe he is Veronica's beard. But he gets to watch movies and some support for the comics.

Edited August 12, 2023 by Affogato

[the-grey-lady]

2 hours ago, Affogato said:

My impression was that Jughead and Veronica, especially this time, were not supposed to have chemistry. Jughead is acting awkward and uncomfortable. It may be a business arrangement. Maybe he is Veronica's beard. But he gets to watch movies and some support for the comics.

I love this!

Just the shot of them walking down the hall holding hands was cringeworthy.

And their kissing scenes are borderline nauseating. I had to look away because I was repelled.

I hope this was intentional, because if not, that's two straight love interests in a row with whom Cole cannot generate one iota of chemistry.

[ruby24]

I don't understand why they went back to Jughead and Veronica, esp now as everyone's going to be getting memories restored. I mean, what was the point of that? Bizarre. It's one thing to mix and match random pairs at the beginning of the season, but going back to these two? After that? God, why?

[the-grey-lady]

15 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I don't understand why they went back to Jughead and Veronica, esp now as everyone's going to be getting memories restored. I mean, what was the point of that? Bizarre. It's one thing to mix and match random pairs at the beginning of the season, but going back to these two? After that? God, why?

Especially given how they ended the first time, and how they never addressed it.

This whole season is nothing but filler.

[ruby24]

I feel like there's someone in the writer's room who's absolutely insistent that Jughead and Veronica make a good couple and just had to have a few more episodes of it before the end. 

[the-grey-lady]

8 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I feel like there's someone in the writer's room who's absolutely insistent that Jughead and Veronica make a good couple and just had to have a few more episodes of it before the end. 

If so, that person has really bad taste.

[Bill1978]

On 8/11/2023 at 1:38 PM, Dobian said:

If they're going to do the whole "gang gets their memories back in the 50s" thing,

 

On 8/11/2023 at 8:34 AM, ruby24 said:

So I'm guessing we're getting a flashback to them as 50's teens, but with memories restored of the past 6 seasons.

Which is going to be so odd for so many of the characters. You would have Toni and Fangs remembering they were married with a child. What does that mean for Toni/Cheryl and Fangs/Midge in the 1950s? Speaking of Midge, will she have the memory of being killed? Kevin will suddenly remember about his relationship with Moose. Betty will remember her alive Dad is a dead serial killer and Polly died. Cheryl will remember her dead brother, and everyone will be looking at Julian like 'Who are you? Are you the doll?' while Julian and Clay have an existential crisis about if they are real as they don't share any memories with the gang beyond the 1950s. Archie will remember his affair with Miss Grundy.

I'm going to guess the writers wanted to give Betty, Rose's ending from Titanic without worrying about the actual result would be of that decision. I just hope that even if they don't stick the ending for a series finale, they at least stick the ending for a season finale. Because this is my 2nd favourite season after the debut season mainly because it doesn't connect to anything else and technically can be watched as a self-contained series, if the last episode sticks its ending.

[rmontro]

28 minutes ago, Bill1978 said:

Archie will remember his affair with Miss Grundy.

Which brings up the question what about all these minor characters who are now miraculously in the '50s?  Like miss Grundy, Mr. Weatherbee, and everybody else.  Will they get their memory back?  Are they real?  Or are they more like NPCs?  Will they just disappear IF everyone else goes back to their present time (which is not a foregone conclusion)?

Another thing I find interesting is how most of the parents seem to be cast as villains and obstacles in their children's lives, mostly people to be despised.  Did no one have a decent family life?  At least Alice has had somewhat of a redemption arc.

[Affogato]

We do keep on coming back to Jughead as an author of some sort, telling the story of Riverdale, and I'm assumeing that a lot of the story is going to turn out to be Jughead's body of work, with many 'alternate universe' variations, as is common in comic books.  Veronica may end up producing the television or movie stories.  I suppose that we will find out what happened to all of the people we've gotten to know, but I don't think we are going to find a straight narrative thread that includes all of the seasons and things that happen.

On 8/11/2023 at 5:58 PM, Dobian said:

It was fun watching the show rip off The Americans for the Blossoms plot.  The difference is it was fun to hang out with the Jennings, even though they were Russian spies.  The Blossoms?  Uh...no.

https://qz.com/926553/what-happened-to-the-real-russian-spies-who-inspired-the-americans

Not necessarily a rip off

[SourK]

On 8/12/2023 at 10:43 AM, Affogato said:

Here is a show that takes its episode titles from movies and has referenced comics, movies and books with many plots and details over the course of the show. Jughead, as the avatar of the showrunner, writes pulp novels and watches movies, and writes comics and idolizes writers like Rayberry. This episode references several '50s black and white B horror movies, complete with splashed movie titles, and starts with them watching the B movies in the movie theater. I wonder why some of the show is in black and white? It is just so random. Clearly it must be because there is no continuity in the storytelling and the writers are bad.

I get that it's black and white because TV and movies were black and white in the 50s. What I don't get is why this episode, specifically, as opposed to any other episode, was black and white, or what that changed about how someone would interpret it. I also don't get why only one episode was black and white instead of the whole season.

If they were only going to do one episode this way, why not the one where Veronica was actually showing B-movies at her theatre? Or why not a scary episode?

On 8/12/2023 at 3:26 PM, ruby24 said:

I don't understand why they went back to Jughead and Veronica, esp now as everyone's going to be getting memories restored. I mean, what was the point of that? Bizarre. It's one thing to mix and match random pairs at the beginning of the season, but going back to these two? After that? God, why?

I was more into the Betty/Veronica story line, or the story line where Veronica's a horndog and no one wants to date her (which I liked because that's not a dynamic you usually see for female characters).

[Affogato]

13 hours ago, SourK said:

I get that it's black and white because TV and movies were black and white in the 50s. What I don't get is why this episode, specifically, as opposed to any other episode, was black and white, or what that changed about how someone would interpret it. I also don't get why only one episode was black and white instead of the whole season.

If they were only going to do one episode this way, why not the one where Veronica was actually showing B-movies at her theatre? Or why not a scary episode?

 

She was showing B movies at thebeg7n ing of the episode. 

This episode was a tribute to a certain kind of movie. That's all. 

[PositiveBean]

If anyone cares, here is what I heard happens with the last episode in terms of the main cast and ships.

Spoiler

Aside from Choni I heard it’s open ended with everyone being friends but set up for Bughead endgame, if that makes sense? And pretty sure Lili and Cole got the most content the last episode. I guess that means it also sets up Varchie endgame? I will post more as I hear more.

I know some of us have hung in there for some strange reason. 🤣 I think some of us are still in shock over what a terrible turn the show took.

[PositiveBean]

Whoops I forgot to add more context and details:

Spoiler

In the Tabitha episode, which is the penultimate one, she reveals to Jughead and eventually everyone else that to save them she tied all the different universes into this one timeline. Now they are stuck in this one and have to just move forward. That’s why they never leave the 50s but are saved. 

Tabitha also tells Jughead they won’t end up together but they had a life together in a different timeline, like Betty and Archie, and that is good enough. (I think this is the start of the Bughead foreshadowing.) She also offers everyone the chance to watch their lives/real timeline, which is basically a Riverdale binge. They can decide how to move forward with what they know. They can also decide which memories to keep. Some decline, like Kevin who just wants to be happy with Clay, but the Core Four and Choni watch “their” show. Tabitha also offers to wipe out the bad memories from that time period. (Can she offer that to all of us too please?) They all agree except Jughead and Betty, who want to keep the bad memories as well as the good. (Supposed to be more foreshadowing.)

I guess that sets up the last episode of 80yo Betty? Again I heard it’s very Lili and Cole heavy so that’s why people think it’s Bughead/Varchie endgame. Just don’t know if it’s implied and they all end up “friends” or if it’s more than just implied. 

I’m just piecing together what I heard so obvi it’s probably not 100% accurate

Edited August 15, 2023 by PositiveBean

[ruby24]

I have to laugh at this very quick 180 degree turn.

Again, the only reason potentially going back to Betty and Jughead in the LAST EPISODE after three seasons of nothing would fly at all is because they were such a huge part of the first four seasons.

But Archie and Veronica now too? Eh...I don't know. I mean, I guess. Veronica has always had an aching for him on and off but when was the last time he was really into her? Seems like forever ago. He liked her for about two seconds at the start of this season but moved on real quick.

It would suck to be stuck in the 50's and conscious of it.

[Bill1978]

Damn you, Kevin.

Spoiler

All I wanted was one appearance, even if it was archival footage, of Moose. But no, you have to take the noble road. (assuming he doesn't appear in the others highlight packages)

And even if the writers' hands were forced cause Cody couldn't/didn't want to return, I think it was a lazy choice of the writers, it would have been nice for Kevin to see there was a universe where he didn't hide himself and was happy (ish) and then Tabitha could have deleted his memory of Moose so he could be happy with Clay.

 

[Affogato]

10 hours ago, PositiveBean said:

Whoops I forgot to add more context and details:

  Hide contents

In the Tabitha episode, which is the penultimate one, she reveals to Jughead and eventually everyone else that to save them she tied all the different universes into this one timeline. Now they are stuck in this one and have to just move forward. That’s why they never leave the 50s but are saved. 

Tabitha also tells Jughead they won’t end up together but they had a life together in a different timeline, like Betty and Archie, and that is good enough. (I think this is the start of the Bughead foreshadowing.) She also offers everyone the chance to watch their lives/real timeline, which is basically a Riverdale binge. They can decide how to move forward with what they know. They can also decide which memories to keep. Some decline, like Kevin who just wants to be happy with Clay, but the Core Four and Choni watch “their” show. Tabitha also offers to wipe out the bad memories from that time period. (Can she offer that to us?) They all agree except Jughead and Betty, who want to keep the bad memories as well as the good. (Supposed to be more foreshadowing.)

I guess that sets up the last episode of 80yo Betty? Again I heard it’s very Lili and Cole heavy so that’s why people think it’s Bughead/Varchie endgame. Just don’t know if it’s implied and they all end up “friends” or if it’s more than just implied. 

I’m just piecing together what I heard so obvi it’s probably not 100% accurate

Makes sense to me. 

[tennisgurl]

Just in time for the finale, Riverdale does The Americans! A lot of what this implies really amuses me, like thinking about Penelope the spy teaching Clifford to speak Russian just so that they could be ominous and eventually get caught, all of Clifford's ranting about the American Way just being a bit before he could fly off to the USSR, Clifford creeping his kids out with his Molach statue just to fuck with them as his Molach statue was apparently just for the creepy aesthetics and not the demon cult I was expecting, bless the Blossoms for being so extra in every universe. 

I loved Cheryl and Julian giving each other these "so dad's absolutely a serial killer, right? No doubt" looks as Clifford threatens them with his child murder statue, which is very fair as that was weird even by Blossom standards. 

Tying the Blossoms in with the Milk Man was shockingly competent writing, it actually makes sense and was a lot more interesting than just another serial killer. Did they bring in a continuity person to close us out and they were like "we should probably wrap up a few mysteries right about now"? We also got Mary finally throwing Uncle Frank out, after awesomely calling him out for trying to manipulate Archie with his dead dads memory and for trying to push Archie into the army when he didn't even serve, and even some closure with the Coopers and Ethel that made some sense. Still not sure how much this makes me like Alice, but its still a decent story.

The black and white camp movies thing was a bit random, but I thought it was fun, this show is always at its best when its more stylized. 

It was fun seeing the whole cast all together, in general we got a lot more of everyone in this episode, which was fun to see before we end things. I'm holding out on judgement until we actually see the finale, but a lot of the things I'm hearing sound REALLY stupid. 

I loved getting to see the coroner again, he's one of my favorite minor characters. 
 

Edited August 15, 2023 by tennisgurl

[AnimeMania]

S07.E19: Chapter One Hundred and Thirty-Six: The Golden Age of Television

BENDING TOWARDS JUSTICE — As the town’s past secrets start to bubble to the surface, Jughead (Cole Sprouse) and the gang are forced to make a difficult decision that will change each of their lives forever.

Premiere Date: Wednesday, August 16, 2023     9pm    CW 

[StewieGriffin]

Alright episode I guess tonight to set up for the Series Finale next week.  It will be the end of an era after 7 years.

[Bill1978]

1 hour ago, StewieGriffin said:

Alright episode I guess tonight to set up for the Series Finale next week.  It will be the end of an era after 7 years.

I still have 45 minutes before I can get access to the episode, but your comment reminded me of a thought I've been having since the Actor's Stirke started. I will say first, I 100% support the actors (and writers) striking but I really feel for the actors on Riverdale not being able to celebrate with the fans on social media etc about the end of a 7-season long show. You would usually see all these 'Gonna miss these guys, thanks for watching etc' posts but not being able to post means this show ends on a bigger whimper than it was already ending on.

And that really goes for any actors whose show is ending during the strike or those actors who have landed their first role etc but are unable to celebrate/inform fans.

[ruby24]

Well that was weird. 

I don't even think this makes sense really. Do they actually remember or they're just being told what they were on TV? Aside from Jughead, everyone's reactions to watching the tv didn't make it seem like they actually remembered any of it.

[Bill1978]

Kevin's dad hooked up with Archie's uncle!!! What the...?

Just when I thought the show couldn't surprise me anymore, I was proven wrong. As Veronica said a few weeks back 'Well that was a twist no one saw coming' But in true Riverdale fashion, the reveal was swept under the carpet never to be addressed again.

From a timetravel point of view, it makes absolutely no sense what Tabitha has done, and it really does set up the finale to be unsatisfying cause basically the past 6 years never existed. And like old Rose said in Titanic '(they) only exist now in my memory'

I'm sure they will do everything in their power to make the final episode weepy, but it will feel hollow since it's all happening with the 1955 characters instead of 2023 characters.

I wonder how Dilton felt about learning he died? I would have loved to be there for that conversation. with Archie. 'So, Clay wasn't in the TV show, Julian you were a doll and Dilton you died.' 

And I guess I should be happy that they included a brief shot of Moose in the TV montage, it was the bare minimum I expected from the show.

[partofme]

This episode made me really sad, I totally ship Jughead/Tabitha.  

[rmontro]

20 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I don't even think this makes sense really. Do they actually remember or they're just being told what they were on TV?

I took it that Tabitha somehow made it that viewing the program brought back all their old memories.  I guess YMMV.  I didn't like that most of them decided to only keep their happy memories.  Seems like a cowardly, and even dumb, thing to do.  A lot of our negative experiences are important learning situations for us.  I would never want to lose my bad memories, those experiences are too important.

I could be wrong about this, but I thought the author's name of The Comet, "W.E.B." Daubs, was a reference to Spider-Man #96 in 1971, where Stan Lee chose to run the issue without the  comics code authority approval.  The story was about Peter's friend Harry having a drug overdose.  I thought that entire storyline was based on that.

Next week is supposed to be based around an elderly Betty remembering her Riverdale days.  I always thought that this was Betty's series, it was mainly about her, especially in the earlier seasons.  I guess it's also about Jughead.  And I suppose an argument could be made for Archie.  But I've always thought the series was mainly about Betty.

[Dobian]

It was a nice episode.  Lots of positive vibes.  Alice finally isn't terrible.  Archie's friendship with Reggie was one of the highlights this season.  Great to see how things wound up with them.  Nice moment with Jughead and the Pep editor.  Great to finally see Tabitha for half an episode.  She was sweet.

Bittersweet ending for Jughead and Tabitha.  A shame that Jugehead's whole family was left out of the 1950s universe.  It was a definite gap.

I do like the theme that they left their dark future for a past where they restore the goodness of the Archie universe in the 1950s.

 

22 hours ago, ruby24 said:

Well that was weird. 

I don't even think this makes sense really. Do they actually remember or they're just being told what they were on TV? Aside from Jughead, everyone's reactions to watching the tv didn't make it seem like they actually remembered any of it.

From what Jughead said, they pretty much watched their whole lives on tv.  This was definitely a rush job.  How can you mentally reconcile two timelines?  Major confusion.  Their 1955 selves remember everything from birth.  How do you reconcile growing up in the 1940s with your memories of growing up in the 2000s?  If this had happened even two episodes ago, they would have had time to explore a lot of this stuff, including the realization of the different relationships they were in, like Jughead/Betty and Archie/Veronica.

Tabitha's explanation of the timelines made absolutely no sense.  By weaving the multiple timelines into one, you have the 1950s Archie gang in the same universe as the 2010-2020s Archie gang.  But the 2010s-2020s can never happen that way now, so where do their memories come from?  Maybe only the memories of the original universe made it into this one.  Whatever.

It makes sense that Betty and Jughead would be the two who would choose to remember all of it.

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Dobian

[the-grey-lady]

10 minutes ago, Dobian said:

It was a nice episode.  Lots of positive vibes.  Alice finally isn't terrible.  Archie's friendship with Reggie was one of the highlights this season.  Great to see how things wound up with them.  Nice moment with Jughead and the Pep editor.  Great to finally see Tabitha for half an episode.  She was sweet.

Bittersweet ending for Jughead and Tabitha.  A shame that Jugehead's whole family was left out of the 1950s universe.  It was a definite gap.

I do like the theme that they left their dark future for a past where they restore the goodness of the Archie universe in the 1950s.

 

From what Jughead said, they pretty much watched their whole lives on tv.  This was definitely a rush job.  How can you mentally reconcile two timelines?  Major confusion.  Their 1955 selves remember everything from birth.  How do you reconcile growing up in the 1940s with your memories of growing up in the 2000s?  If this had happened even two episodes ago, they would have had time to explore a lot of this stuff, including the realization of the different relationships they were in, like Jughead/Betty and Archie/Veronica.

Tabitha's explanation of the timelines made absolutely no sense.  By weaving the multiple timelines into one, you have the 1950s Archie gang in the same universe as the 2010-2020s Archie gang.  But the 2010s-2020s can never happen that way now, so where do their memories come from?  Maybe only the memories of the original universe made it into this one.  Whatever.

It makes sense that Betty and Jughead would be the two who would choose to remember all of it.

 

The entire memories/timeline nonsense was nonsensical and convoluted. Even for this show.

Memories aren't like Skittles. You can't just pick out the good ones. They're all tangled up and entwined. Trying to keep only the good memories would be impossible.

[thuganomics85]

Kind of love that Weatherbee got the big hero entrance/reaction for his return as the principal once Featherhead got canned (and Werthers scurried off shortly after.)  Funny that he use to be a thorn in the gang's side during the earlier seasons, but if you think about it, yeah, he really was the best principal this show/school ever had.  He might be a stick in the mud at times but at least he kind of seemed to care about the students, dammit!

Well, that Frank/Tom Keller revelation came out of nowhere!

Loved seeing Nana Rose again.  She will outlive them all!

I still can't figure out if they were hinting at an actual romantic connection between Archie and Reggie and are just too scared to pull the trigger, but gold stars to K.J. Apa and Charles Melton for managing to make me invested in this relationship no matter what the outcome is.  Archie is willing to spend his summer to shuck corn for Reggie (not an euphemism!)

But, of course, almost none of it matters now because the show truly has flipped the script again!  Angel Tabitha makes her grand return and is basically able to have everyone get their memories from their future back by making them binge the past seasons of this show... err, I mean relive their future.  Or is it their past, now?  Ugh, time paradoxes!

Anyway, Jughead is the first one to get it back, he manages to convince most everyone else to follow suit (except Kevin and Julian), and they all agree to keep their memories.  Well, kind of, because apparently there is a way for Angel Tabitha to make them only remember the "good ones", so now only Jughead and Betty know the full stories since they decided to keep the bad ones too.  Yeah, I'm going to have a hard time buying any of that, but whatever, I guess.

The clips of previous seasons/moments managed to tug at the heartstrings still.  Especially the one with Fred.  I really do miss Luke Perry.

If nothing else, I'm actually sincerely curious to see how the finale plays out.  This season wasn't perfect but if managed to make me invested in it again and that has to count for something.  We'll find out next Wednesday!

[Bill1978]

You know what bugged me all day about last night's episode? That for all her angel powers, Tabitha made the gang sit in a theatre and watch their memories on a freakin' small television set, instead of on the big screen. Yeah yeah, I know golden age of television and all that. But surely if she can collapse a multiverse into one universe and bring along a colour tv, she can project the tv signal onto the big screen.

[Dobian]

11 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Loved seeing Nana Rose again.  She will outlive them all!

Yet another forced "relationship" done for shock value.

 

6 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

You know what bugged me all day about last night's episode? That for all her angel powers, Tabitha made the gang sit in a theatre and watch their memories on a freakin' small television set, instead of on the big screen. Yeah yeah, I know golden age of television and all that. But surely if she can collapse a multiverse into one universe and bring along a colour tv, she can project the tv signal onto the big screen.

And it wasn't even a 1955 tv she used, it was an early 60's era color tv.  So yeah, why not just bring in a 2020s 70-inch flatscreen?

Edited August 18, 2023 by Dobian

[Affogato]

10 hours ago, the-grey-lady said:

The entire memories/timeline nonsense was nonsensical and convoluted. Even for this show.

Memories aren't like Skittles. You can't just pick out the good ones. They're all tangled up and entwined. Trying to keep only the good memories would be impossible.

You can reframe memories and choose how you remember things that happened. This is, I just read, a promising treatment for ptsd. do you choose to remember your toxic mother as a horrible destructive person, or do you remember that there were some good parts in the relationship, and hang on to those? I mean, eventually, if you examine the bad parts and put them away, they fade with disuse, right? You may not forget them, but they are no longer a big deal.

It also occurs to me that the Archie Comics, the earlier ones, framed the '50s in a positive light, and many people in real life also think back nostalgically about the '50s. Certainly there were good things. Life was simpler, women and black people knew their place, suburbs were white, Xenophobia was socially acceptable, Commies were hated and hunted down, the tensions of the cold war fade into the background, things were cheaper, the US was on top of the world, people could afford houses on factory jobs, kept the jobs all their lives and received pensions, the air was cleaner, the weather was stabler, boys were boys and girls were girls...and so on. So, do you want to remember them as a golden age in US history or as a time where a lot of societal change  needed to happen and did happen?

Betty and Jughead choose the latter. It makes sense. They were the ones that always seemed to see the larger picture, somehow.

I assume Veronica helped Betty print her book as a Vanity project, but I think that next week it will have been printed for real. I wonder what Jughead will turn out to be, since he won't always have pep comics. I guess we will find out.

Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa has received several GLAAD awards, so I assume he has a reason for making gay and bi relationships seem like the norm, since most of the time they are presented as a singular relationship in the crowd of heteronormative relationships. It needs to be done more, I think.

Frankly, uncle Frank as an unattached middle aged man, was pretty obviously gay, right? He protested a lot any time Archie wasn't 'manly', maybe too much? I liked Kevin's reaction to his father, he has some thinking to do, and Kevin not wanting to be involved in the tv watching marathons if Clay wasn't there was moving in a way, since he really found his place (against all odds) during the last season. 

Tabitha and Jughead were my favorite pairing, because they seemed genuinely like a real couple that had a shared trajectory. I'm glad that this world Tabitha finds a place as an activist. (good to see Featherstone taking the reins of his school, and great to see Betty's mother doing the right thing).   I think that Jughead, for all the complaints, had great friend chemistry with Ethel and we are also seeing some with Veronica this season.

We haven't seen Hot Dog for a while, have we?

I want more of this denouement to the ending, will it be a comic book?

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Affogato

[the-grey-lady]

4 minutes ago, Affogato said:

You can reframe memories and choose how you remember things that happened. This is, I just read, a promising treatment for ptsd. do you choose to remember your toxic mother as a horrible destructive person, or do you remember that there were some good parts in the relationship, and hang on to those? I mean, eventually, if you examine the bad parts and put them away, they fade with disuse, right? You may not forget them, but they are no longer a big deal.

Okay, that is a really cool way to frame memories (had no idea about that treatment for PTSD), but I think it's giving the writers too much credit to think they're capable of that kind of nuance. When they said most of the characters forgot their bad memories, I think they meant it literally. Veronica does not remember killing her husband...literally.

[Affogato]

2 minutes ago, the-grey-lady said:

Okay, that is a really cool way to frame memories (had no idea about that treatment for PTSD), but I think it's giving the writers too much credit to think they're capable of that kind of nuance. When they said most of the characters forgot their bad memories, I think they meant it literally. Veronica does not remember killing her husband...literally.

Yes, I think they did mean it more literally than in real life, they were remembering jumping into the quarry and swimming, but not the horror parts of the story. But, it isn't a realistic story, Tabitha is 'Angel Tabitha' and they are getting their simplistic comic book/fairy tale ending if they want it. I wonder if Cheryl remembers her other brother?

[Affogato]

On 8/14/2023 at 10:40 PM, ruby24 said:

It would suck to be stuck in the 50's and conscious of it.

Really? I mean, no tic tok and no Xtwitter and stuff. I wonder if anyone will remember something they can use to become a billionaire? Sports trivia, or just the idea of facebook? Still, they are in a good place for the most part, better than most of them were for a lot of seasons. Some of them are alive, win for Dilton and Polly, for example. Veronica seems to have achieved independence and slipped over that nasty competitive thing she had with her father. Archie has some more memories of his father and has found his passion and a good friend in Reggie. Betty has also found a direction and worked out her relationship with her mother, and she can support her mother in having an independent life, too. Jughead has had some experiences to steady him. Cheryl has...well,you get the point. They are all in a pretty good place and they weren't, earlier in the later times.

And they aren't stuck, it will be the '60s soon enough.

3 hours ago, Dobian said:

Yet another forced "relationship" done for shock value.

 

And it wasn't even a 1955 tv she used, it was an early 60's era color tv.  So yeah, why not just bring it a 2020s 70-inch flatscreen?

Everyone would be so freaked out by the medium that they would miss the message.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Affogato

[Affogato]

On 8/17/2023 at 3:18 AM, Bill1978 said:

I still have 45 minutes before I can get access to the episode, but your comment reminded me of a thought I've been having since the Actor's Stirke started. I will say first, I 100% support the actors (and writers) striking but I really feel for the actors on Riverdale not being able to celebrate with the fans on social media etc about the end of a 7-season long show. You would usually see all these 'Gonna miss these guys, thanks for watching etc' posts but not being able to post means this show ends on a bigger whimper than it was already ending on.

And that really goes for any actors whose show is ending during the strike or those actors who have landed their first role etc but are unable to celebrate/inform fans.

Well, I assume they can get together (if they want) and that they can have zooms, text each other, and as appropriate, pursue the lasting friendships that formed during the show. Maybe have a reunion occasionally. I doubt that saying things on social media is really that important, and to some it is probably a chore.

 

[Dobian]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

Really? I mean, no tic tok and no Xtwitter and stuff. I wonder if anyone will remember something they can use to become a billionaire? Sports trivia, or just the idea of facebook?

Facebook is way too far out there.  They can buy stock in Xerox and IBM, Johnson & Johnson, etc.  McDonald's, KFC.  And bet on every World Series and Kentucky Derby.  Instant fortune.  Of course, on the sports bets they would have to go on memory.  They wouldn't have the sports history book like Biff had in Back to the Future 2.  Archie and Reggie might be sports nuts with an encyclopedic memory of who won what championship each year.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Dobian

[PositiveBean]

20 hours ago, rmontro said:

Next week is supposed to be based around an elderly Betty remembering her Riverdale days.  I always thought that this was Betty's series, it was mainly about her, especially in the earlier seasons.  I guess it's also about Jughead.  And I suppose an argument could be made for Archie.  But I've always thought the series was mainly about Betty.

Roberto and some of the writers & directors pretty much admitted this year they consider Betty and Lili the heart and star of the show.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2023 by PositiveBean

[StewieGriffin]

On 8/18/2023 at 9:18 PM, PositiveBean said:

Roberto and some of the writers & directors pretty much admitted this year they consider Betty and Lili the heart and star of the show.

 

 

 

 

I always thought it was mostly supposed to be centered around Archie as the main star since it's based off the Archie comics and AJ Kapa is listed first in the opening credits.  Seems the finale ending should probably be with Jughead ending the show with this whole show in his head finishing his novel on his typewriter.

[PositiveBean]

2 hours ago, StewieGriffin said:

I always thought it was mostly supposed to be centered around Archie as the main star since it's based off the Archie comics and AJ Kapa is listed first in the opening credits.  Seems the finale ending should probably be with Jughead ending the show with this whole show in his head finishing his novel on his typewriter.

It initially was centered around Archie/KJ but things changed. Jughead/Cole was the most popular at one point but things also changed there. It would also take a lot of space to talk about the shit that’s happened and the disrespectful behavior from some of the cast. I get that the show became quite stupid but you could still at least respect your workplace and responsibilities. At least they pulled it together the last month and those who were already over it pretended to give a shit.

Lili worked her ass off and has consistently been the most critically acclaimed cast member of the show. Betty is also one of the most popular characters as well as half of the three most popular ships on the show outside of Choni— Bughead, Barchie and Beronica. I mentioned in another post how they stopped being tactful about her, especially this year. Roberto even called her his muse. So IMO if they were going to focus on one of the top three, she deserves it. And all of the women deserve medals. 

Spoiler

I’m sure they will all be heavily featured in the finale but the set-up is some form of Jughead taking 80yo Betty back to the beginning and the last days of Riverdale will be seen through her eyes. But I don’t see why they also wouldn’t end it on Jughead’s typewriter. I also think that’s a good idea.

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by PositiveBean

[Bill1978]

What's the chance we get one more totally random musical number? I feel it wouldn't be a Riverdale finale without a random musical number that doesn't need to exist and really doesn't serve the plot. Maybe a full cast version of Sugar Sugar as they end their final day at school? Becuase why not?

[Affogato]

3 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

What's the chance we get one more totally random musical number? I feel it wouldn't be a Riverdale finale without a random musical number that doesn't need to exist and really doesn't serve the plot. Maybe a full cast version of Sugar Sugar as they end their final day at school? Becuase why not?

86 year old Cheryl, can she still do the splits?

It is possible that it may have something to do with Riverdale high school, the modern version, maybe Betty's great granddaughter. I can see that as one way to set it up.

[tennisgurl]

I guess I have to give Riverdale credit, its certainly not going out with a whimper. So we finally get our big reveal about how this is going to go and its as batshit crazy as you imagined it would be. So Angel Tabitha shows up to tell us that she has a multiverse Netflix password so that everyone can binge watch Riverdale on her color TV to see what really happened in their lives in the 2020s.  I guess Tabitha was using the screen as a way to get their memories back into their head and it wasn't just them watching their lives or else they would hardly have those memories at all, they would have just been stuck watching Riverdale having their brains fried like the rest of us, but they're the same people just with two sets of memories, half of which are only partially true. So does this mean that in this new timeline they will live their lives going into a future where none of them existed in the first place because they all got sucked into the 50s? If this is all the same timeline, where did the memories even come from? Are they all from a timeline that never existed? What about the other parts of the Riverdale multiverse, where are they now? Is only having the memories of your life's greatest hits the best idea? I guess it doesn't really matter, the 2020 memories are basically just a weird dream as its their lives in the 50s that matter...which is a totally insane way to end a show. So literally nothing that happened mattered at all? The people we watched for six season, for better or for worse, just don't exist anymore.? What about people that aren't around in the 50s timeline like Jugheads family, do they just exist in the future but without a son or brother? I cant believe we only have one episode to wrap things up, but I feel like even if we had a whole extra season this wouldn't make my head hurt.

The show missed out on a golden opportunity to let us watch the cast watch Riverdale, can you imagine their reactions? Cant have been much fun for Dilton to watch himself die a few times, or for Fangs to watch Midge die, or for Toni to watch her girlfriend try to kill her baby with their mutual friend, that shit would have been depressingly wild. No wonder Kevin and Julien passed, especially Julien. If I found out that in the original timeline my sister had a totally different (dead) twin brother and I was just a creepy doll, I wouldn't want to unpack that either. 

After Veronica said that they wanted to keep their good memories and not the bad ones with superpowers, serial killers, and gargoyle kings, I thought that they would show them only watching season one, just retconning the whole rest of the show out of existence. Things are certainly a lot better in this world, several people who were murdered are alive, no ones relatives are serial killers, Kevin doesn't have a thousand cult memberships under his bed, so I get it, but this all just seems so weird.

Frank and Tom Keller was...random! I suppose the gentleman doth protest too much? Its almost like this show is trying to get all of its crazy out really fast while it still can.

I love that Weatherbee got the big hero entrance, he might have been a thorn in the gangs side but he is one of the more competent adults in the town, they're probably thrilled to see him now with their new memories, he's certainly looking pretty good after the last guy. And they thought he was too much of a stickler!

Its too bad that Tabitha and Jughead cant end up together, they always worked for me as a couple in a way a lot of this shows pairings never did. Archie volunteering to help Reggie's family so that he could go to basketball camp was really sweet, they've really sold me on their friendship this season. Must have been weird for them to see the original timeline where Reggie was always trying to push Archie's buttons and looked like a totally different person. 

Edited August 21, 2023 by tennisgurl