S05.04: A Bird in the Hand

[cardigirl]

7 hours ago, circumvent said:

I am all for home birth, midwives, as natural as possible. But it is not for everyone and it is not a "spur of the moment" thing. The midwife needs to be involved in the process from the beginning, or at least for good part of the pregnancy. It is not like trying an new flavor of ice cream, Maggie. Midwifery was the norm for a long time, until men decided to take over control of labor from nature. Put a woman on a bed, fighting gravity and all that, many times doing unnecessary procedures and cutting women to make it easier for the doctors (great majority men when things changed) to "go through all that" with the woman.But this is definitely not for Maggie. IT is just not her personality. She is always too agitated and picking fights with people

As an aside, something I learned recently: midwifery in the United States is heavily regulated and discouraged  - likely because there is no huge profit. Don't know how it varies by state

Yes, yes, women have been having babies on their own since the beginning of time, and many of them died during childbirth as a result. I'm sure midwives today are well-versed in hygienic care of a mother and baby, but they aren't surgeons. It is possible to have a home birth and be safe and healthy, but I still think that for a first pregnancy, I'd want the full service of a hospital available close by if something goes wrong. And by close by, I mean down the hall. 

But that is just me. Even way back when I was having my two children, the hospital and my doctor wanted to know what I wanted in my "birth plan" and would advise me on the risks and benefits of each choice. I didn't go to medical school for eight years, or have residency in obstetrics, but I was smart enough to listen and evaluate the information available.  Also, natural childbirth, both times. I was very fortunate in that I didn't require surgery or emergency intervention either time, but my experiences were very positive. 

[circumvent]

3 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Yes, yes, women have been having babies on their own since the beginning of time, and many of them died during childbirth as a result. I'm sure midwives today are well-versed in hygienic care of a mother and baby, but they aren't surgeons. It is possible to have a home birth and be safe and healthy, but I still think that for a first pregnancy, I'd want the full service of a hospital available close by if something goes wrong. And by close by, I mean down the hall. 

But that is just me. Even way back when I was having my two children, the hospital and my doctor wanted to know what I wanted in my "birth plan" and would advise me on the risks and benefits of each choice. I didn't go to medical school for eight years, or have residency in obstetrics, but I was smart enough to listen and evaluate the information available.  Also, natural childbirth, both times. I was very fortunate in that I didn't require surgery or emergency intervention either time, but my experiences were very positive. 

I don't know the statistics about women dying in childbirth before the hospitals started having delivery rooms. Point is, the introduction of men during a natural process is not because they wanted to save lives. It was because they were men and they wanted to sort of experiment techniques that might or not have been for the betterment of the process of labor. For example, it is very rare that a woman might need an episiotomy. That's something the men invented to make their work easier, faster, move on to the next one. Same thing is happening with c-sections: hospitals and doctors don't want to follow the woman's body schedule, they want to have their schedule sorted out and c-sections allow them to do that. It is all very well documented 

Of course, since many decades ago, we got conditioned to believe that a hospital is the safest place for birth. Doulas, midwives, they do know when to ask for help, to suggest a hospital, to make sure everything is safe. Besides, if hospitals were the safest place, the maternal mortality rate in the US, with all the hospitals and technology available, wouldn't be the highest in the global north, even higher than in many countries in the global south. 

It is all conditioning and fear that we all grow up with, that doctors put in our heads, that money people calculate and make the biggest profit possible. 

For those interested, there is an excellent documentary on Netflix - The Birth Reborn. It addresses the excess c-sections in Brazil, with stories and traumatic stories of medical birth. Home birth is not for everyone but it is a process, an education, and it can be done safely. 

[txhorns79]

5 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Plus there's no guarantee those babies will like each other when they get older...plus baby will meet kids at school. Unless they only plan to let him have one friend.

I mean, John essentially had to die for Maggie to get into the friend group, so only planning to let their kid have one friend does make sense for this show.  After all, look at Sophie, Danny and Theo.  I don't know if any of those kids have friends.  They certainly seem to spend the majority of their time hanging out with 30/40-somethings.

 

19 hours ago, desertflower said:

 

Worst home health aide ever! That went a different direction than I thought. I thought Walter would end up getting along so well with the aide that he would treat him better than Rome and maybe as his dementia progressed he’d even think the aide was his son and Rome would have to deal with all that. Guess I was way off on that one. 

I had the same thought.  Was very surprised it morphed into Walter being too abrasive for the aide, and moving in with Regina and Rome. 

[Lethallyfab]

I don’t think the “Theo is basically behaving like a kid years younger than he actually is” thing would be as glaring if Sophie and Danny weren’t written as fully autonomous, completely independent adults, who have nothing better to do than hang out with their dead dad’s adult friends.  Like, you’re either immature for your age or you’re signing up for your 401K at age 16.  

[Diana Berry]

Maybe Greta and Eddie will fall in love.

who is going to feed the baby birds now that Mom is gone?

please refresh my memory with the man in the park.  Didn’t he stop by the restaurant and encourage Gina to keep it open or was it something else?

[Winston Wolfe]

9 hours ago, Lethallyfab said:

I don’t think the “Theo is basically behaving like a kid years younger than he actually is” thing would be as glaring if Sophie and Danny weren’t written as fully autonomous, completely independent adults, who have nothing better to do than hang out with their dead dad’s adult friends.  Like, you’re either immature for your age or you’re signing up for your 401K at age 16.  

Now that you mention it, by spending (apparently) most of their available time with Jon's friends Danny and Sophie are clearly looking for surrogate parents. Gary clearly has an "older brother/father-figure" presence with Danny and Regina is definitely serving as a substitute mom for Sophie.

[cardigirl]

13 hours ago, circumvent said:

For those interested, there is an excellent documentary on Netflix - The Birth Reborn. It addresses the excess c-sections in Brazil, with stories and traumatic stories of medical birth. Home birth is not for everyone but it is a process, an education, and it can be done safely. 

I agree that it can be done safely. In Maggie's case, as someone else pointed out, to decide that she wants that at 8 months pregnant without consulting with her attending, is risky. 

Personally, I liked being at the hospital, as I got some extra sleep before going home and not sleeping, basically, for the next three months.  😏

 

[Notabug]

4 hours ago, cardigirl said:

I agree that it can be done safely. In Maggie's case, as someone else pointed out, to decide that she wants that at 8 months pregnant without consulting with her attending, is risky. 

Personally, I liked being at the hospital, as I got some extra sleep before going home and not sleeping, basically, for the next three months.  😏

 

Yes, home births require a lot of planning as well as enlisting properly trained and experienced practitioners to help.  Deciding on the spur of the moment to stay home because she met a woman she liked who was doing it, is not the way to  make that decision.  Maggie is going to call her friend's midwife whose experience and credentials she knows nothing about and hire her to deliver her child at home.  Amongst other things, reputable homebirth practitioners will often turn away people like Maggie who stumble into the idea at the last minute and haven't been planning for it all along and, who, quite frankly, appear to be clueless as to what is involved in a safe homebirth.  The fact that Maggie's partner is not supportive of the idea is also another reason for a practitioner to decline to take her on as a client.  I presume we will have Regina and Catherine volunteering to be Maggie's support people in labor, but the whole idea is ill conceived and not likely to go well.

Back in the olden days in Obstetrics, we used to talk about some women as carrying a 'premium' baby.  These were women who were perhaps older, with a history of losses or other extenuating circumstances.  The fact of the matter is, this is quite possibly the only child that Gary will ever father since he has Stage IV cancer.  Maggie isn't exactly a good bet for longevity either.  Not that all patients are not deserving the best possible care; but there are some situations where a good outcome is really crucial because this may well be their only chance.  Another good reason for Maggie-and Gary- to do the research, interview the experts and find the right answer for their family.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Notabug

[Clanstarling]

22 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Plus there's no guarantee those babies will like each other when they get older...plus baby will meet kids at school. Unless they only plan to let him have one friend.

Yep, that happened with one of our "mom and me" friend's kid.

[Clanstarling]

5 hours ago, cardigirl said:

I agree that it can be done safely. In Maggie's case, as someone else pointed out, to decide that she wants that at 8 months pregnant without consulting with her attending, is risky. 

Personally, I liked being at the hospital, as I got some extra sleep before going home and not sleeping, basically, for the next three months.  😏

I was definitely going to be going to a hospital as both of my pregnancies were high risk (and on top of it, as it happened, both were premature). My siblings were all born at home with our mother using, basically, the family midwife. It was kind of like Call the Midwife sort of thing where she lived at the time. It all went well, and I have always been disappointed that I was the only one who wasn't. (long story)

I think there's a lot of value in both choices, but yes, it's not something you choose on a whim (unless you have to give birth in the backseat of a car...always my nightmare).

I forget what Maggie's cancer was (breast?). Would it have factored into the birth at all? (as in, better to be in a hospital?)

Edited March 5, 2023 by Clanstarling

[Notabug]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

I was definitely going to be going to a hospital as both of my pregnancies were high risk (and on top of it, as it happened, both were premature). My siblings were all born at home with our mother using, basically, the family midwife. It was kind of like Call the Midwife sort of thing where she lived at the time. It all went well, and I have always been disappointed that I was the only one who wasn't. (long story)

I think there's a lot of value in both choices, but yes, it's not something you choose on a whim (unless you have to give birth in the backseat of a car...always my nightmare).

I forget what Maggie's cancer was (breast?). Would it have factored into the birth at all? (as in, better to be in a hospital?)

No, Maggie's cancer shouldn't affect her delivery at all.  Some women are less fertile after chemo, some women with estrogen receptor positive cancers might be placed on medication that would make it inadvisable to become pregnant while taking it, but Maggie apparently isn't.

[historylover820]

On 3/3/2023 at 10:27 AM, JayDub1987 said:

Anybody else realize that Scott could easily get into that low-hanging flower pot from the porch rail. He's an effing cat. Theo probably doesn't realize this yet, but those things can jump. 

I was thinking the same thing

[circumvent]

The nest was also on a chair before Greta picked it up. Birds don't do that, they don't build nests among pillows and cushions. They would also know that there is a cat in the vicinity, so the nest would be high on a tree. I don't know what bird that one is supposed to be but unless the chicks have some dedicated father, they are dead. Birds grow fast, they have to, and they need to be fed almost non-stop. Even with a hero dad, it would be unlikely that they would survive 

[KaveDweller]

On 3/3/2023 at 10:47 PM, hoosiergirl said:

The birthing class couple and Maggie/Gary are going to encounter some sort of trauma that forces Maggie/Gary to go back to their original friend group. I got the sense that maybe Claire would lose her baby or the husband would die in some weirdo plot twist. 

If this was a Lifetime movie, Claire would be faking her pregnancy and only making friends with Maggie so she could steal their baby or something.

On 3/4/2023 at 12:15 PM, Clanstarling said:

As for Maggie and Gary's search for friends, I think I heard them say something along the lines of they wanted to pick some friends with a baby of a similar age of theirs, before the baby itself becomes the connecting point (though that doesn't really make a lot of sense). When our children were young, we did become friends with people in our baby classes/etc. groups, but the baby isn't much of a decider until they're old enough to make their own friends.  So anyway, the point is, their group of friends don't have infant children (except for ghost Charley, of course).

It does make sense to want to have friends with a kid the same age as yours. It is just odd that Gary keeps calling them "his new best friends." Also that he keeps saying he doesn't want to be friends with whoever their kid picks. As others have pointed out, the baby won't be able to choose his own friends for several years. Once he does get into that situation, Maggie and Gary wouldn't need to hang out with the parents of whoever the kid picks.

13 hours ago, Winston Wolfe said:

Now that you mention it, by spending (apparently) most of their available time with Jon's friends Danny and Sophie are clearly looking for surrogate parents. Gary clearly has an "older brother/father-figure" presence with Danny and Regina is definitely serving as a substitute mom for Sophie.

Regina is a substitute mom, but I also think Sophie is a substitute friend for Regina. Her previous best friend was Delilah, who was also her partner in the restaurant. Then when Delilah left, she made friends with that ex-con and started a business with her. But that blew up. Regina needed a new person to fill the friend/partner role.

I'm not sure what happened to her dad. Wasn't he supposed to be a partner with the food truck?

[ams1001]

1 hour ago, circumvent said:

The nest was also on a chair before Greta picked it up. Birds don't do that, they don't build nests among pillows and cushions. They would also know that there is a cat in the vicinity, so the nest would be high on a tree. I don't know what bird that one is supposed to be but unless the chicks have some dedicated father, they are dead. Birds grow fast, they have to, and they need to be fed almost non-stop. Even with a hero dad, it would be unlikely that they would survive 

They also need some sort of incubator, or at least a heat source. It's early spring (I assume) in Boston; naked baby birds probably aren't going to survive overnight outside without their mom to keep them warm (IIRC, they didn't seem to have much in the way of feathers, yet). There's a youtube channel called A Chick Called Albert and he's got a couple videos of him hand raising just one baby bird (hatched from supermarket quail eggs! The first was Albert several years ago, hence the channel name, but he has a more recent video where he did it again). It's a lot of work!

We once had a robin make a nest in the X of the legs of a picnic table that had been stored on its side against the house for the winter. My dad couldn't set up the patio until they moved out. But that was wood so maybe she thought it was a low tree? A chair cushion seems unlikely.

[Notabug]

40 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

 

We once had a robin make a nest in the X of the legs of a picnic table that had been stored on its side against the house for the winter. My dad couldn't set up the patio until they moved out. But that was wood so maybe she thought it was a low tree? A chair cushion seems unlikely.

It is also fairly unlikely that a bird would set up a nest in the middle of an area well-trafficked by humans.  Up in the rafters of the porch,  on a light fixture or in a tree or bush off to the side, maybe.  But in the middle of a seating area on a cushion practically next to the front door?  Not the sort of place most birds would nest.

[ams1001]

25 minutes ago, Notabug said:

It is also fairly unlikely that a bird would set up a nest in the middle of an area well-trafficked by humans.  Up in the rafters of the porch,  on a light fixture or in a tree or bush off to the side, maybe.  But in the middle of a seating area on a cushion practically next to the front door?  Not the sort of place most birds would nest.

Good point. No one had used the patio for months when our mama bird decided to build her nest. And of course once we discovered it we didn't go out there much until they moved on. (We did keep an eye on them from the porch, though. Cuz cute baby birds!)

[Clanstarling]

15 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I'm not sure what happened to her dad. Wasn't he supposed to be a partner with the food truck?

I'd forgotten about him. I do believe he was supposed to be a partner. But there may have been some drama...?

[Sandman]

On 3/1/2023 at 11:13 PM, historylover820 said:

Also, a trained home care provider would be more patient than that.

So much for buddy’s having been raised with a military temperament! Really, his professionalism couldn’t survive contact with golf?! Of course, we knew he was too ideal to last. 

I keep thinking this show would be vastly improved if someone just took Nash aside gently, cupped his face in their hands, and said “DJ, sweetheart, these people — they’re, well, they’re maniacs. You need to get outside more. You know, meet some people that you’re not … paying.” I bet Christina Moses could do it. She seems like she might be a pretty good egg, under all the Rome & Gina mishegoss.

Also, Nash needs to realize that hospitals are bound by privacy regulations for a reason. Jeebus feck.

Edited March 9, 2023 by Sandman
Moved comment to relevant episode, whoops!