Captain America: Brave New World

[Raja]

1 minute ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Talk about failing upwards. For anyone who thought Ross seemed unlikely to be a successful politician.....

I guess at this point MCU America knows all about the Soviet and Hydra brain washing. As a last chance to vote for the greatest generation as well as a hero of both fights against Thanos how could he lose?

[dkb]

Will go back and read everyone's thoughts but I thought that this would have been better as a series. There were good ideas in there but felt kinda rushed but meandering at the same time.

Anthony Mackie was good, the Joaquin actor was ok but the character was not it with the jokes. The Steve/Sam banter it was not.

Biggest pop in the audience was when Bucky showed up!

[dkb]

On 2/14/2025 at 6:44 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Well, as one of the biggest MCU apologist out there (even defending the likes of Eternals and Quantumania), I didn't think this was horrible as some were suggesting and I still found things I liked about it.  That said, this really might be the closest to The Dark World in that it was kind of just dull on a lot of levels and almost felt like everyone was going through the motions.  The look, the action, the dialogue and overall writing, the acting, etc.: nothing was horrid but it just had low energy all around.  I really wonder how much of damage the reshoots did because it just felt like it was never on solid footing.

The biggest issue was that it really did feel like it wanted to in the vein of The Winter Solider with all of the political intrigue, the hero at odds with the US government, and even a little mind control.  But despite the potential of it all, I just felt like it didn't deliver like it should have.  And then there was all of the stuff with President Ross.  It really did feel like they reconed the character where we were suppose to find him to be a decent man who did questionable things that he believed was for the good of the world, instead of just a raging dick who made it his mission to thwart the Avengers at almost every turn.  A lot of that probably is because Harrison Ford is just at the level of fame now where not many will buy him as a straight-up asshole like they did with William Hurt.  But the character just felt half-baked and it was hard to get invested in it, which is a problem since he was such a major factor here.

Also, definitely just nitpicking, but I found it hard to believe that someone like Ross would ever be elected President.  Ignoring any actual political views, Presidents these days usually need some form of charisma or ability to play to the crowd (for better or worse), and I just don't see Ross pulling that off on any potential campaign trail.  Realistically, he strikes me more as someone who would have been selected as a VP pick for a more charismatic presidential candidate.  Kind of wish they did that and he became President after the original one resigned or died or something to that nature.  Again, I know I'm thinking way too hard about that aspect but it kind of bugged me.

Definitely think Anthony Mackie has been overly-criticized at times for not being Chris Evans, and I still think Sam has potential to be a great Captain America.  Mackie did his best here, but the writing definitely let him down.  Did enjoy his easygoing chemistry with Danny Ramirez/Joaquin.

I swear, I love Giancarlo Esposito, but will Hollywood ever let him play a character that isn't the same one that it feels like he's been playing since Breaking Bad?

Great seeing Isaiah Bradley again.  Carl Lumbly is a treasure.

The Ruth Bat-Seraph character left almost no impression and seemed wasted here.

Tim Blake Nelson was good as always, but Samuel Sterns' new look didn't quite work for me.

Wish we had more Betsy/Liv Tyler.

I don't care if it is fanservice to end all fanservice: loved that they did bring in Bucky for at least one scene.  Anthony Mackie and Sebastian Stan's interplay and chemistry can't be beat.  Almost we see more of the duo in future team-up films.

The visual effects weren't the best but I feel like they've been over hated as well.  I've see so much worse: even in other MCU films.

Do kind of respect that both Eternals and The Incredible Hulk were major factors in all of this.  The franchise certainly isn't shy about involving their outcast films lately.

So, yeah, disappointing and will probably fall short at the box office but, well, at least it ain't Secret Invasion a.k.a. probably the only MCU product I can safely say I didn't like/almost hated.

Your whole review @thuganomics85 SPOT ON. I was telling my sister I enjoy most of the MCU movies because to me they are at baseline, good movies. I don't get the hate for The Marvels or The Eternals (haven't watched Secret Invasion yet). 

Also I'm glad that you said you found it dull to look at because I was trying to explain to my sister that the movie looked off but couldn't find the words to let her know what I meant - I had forgotten my glasses at home so that didn't help either. The movie is weirdly grey and lifeless looking.

 

[Raja]

I think the force multiplier of being part of the MCU has now flipped and instead of getting bonus points from adding to the grand story that because we can't see a grand story being pointed to like the Avengers we are getting deductions other movies would not have held against them for not getting them.

[tv echo]

Welcoming Sam Wilson as Captain America at the ‘Brave New World’ Press Conference
Mike Manalo   Feb 13, 2025
https://thenerdsofcolor.org/2025/02/13/accepting-sam-wilson-as-captain-america-at-the-brave-new-world-press-conference/ 

Quote

... Present for the conference were producer and Marvel Studios head, Kevin Feige, director Julius Onah, producer Nate Moore, and stars Xosha Roquemore, Shira Haas, Giancarlo Esposito, Tim Blake Nelson, Danny Ramirez, Anthony Mackie, and the legendary Harrison Ford. ....
*  *  *
Kevin, what elements made Captain America: Brave New World, a film that Marvel Studios wanted to produce. Why did you want this film in the first place?
FEIGE: Well, I mean, it was really all about Sam Wilson as Captain America. We saw him in the biggest movie we’ve ever made, Avengers: Endgame, we saw Steve Rogers pass [the mantle] to Sam Wilson. We want to continue that story. And it’s always about bringing new characters to the MCU, and this amazing cast that you see before you did just that.

[DanaK]

https://variety.com/2025/film/box-office/box-office-captain-america-brave-new-world-opening-weekend-100-million-presidents-day-holiday-weekend-1236309865/

Sounds like it's going to start well

 

[Morrigan2575]

5 hours ago, DanaK said:

https://variety.com/2025/film/box-office/box-office-captain-america-brave-new-world-opening-weekend-100-million-presidents-day-holiday-weekend-1236309865/

Sounds like it's going to start well

 

It's projected to earn less than Ant-Man and Wasp Quantumenia over the same 4 day weekend. That's not a good start by any stretch of the imagination. Captain 4 also has a lower CinemaScore (B-) than Ant-Man 3 (B+).

[tv echo]

Weekend Box Office: New CAPTAIN AMERICA Marks Another President’s Day Weekend Win For the MCU
News & Analysis • Boxoffice Staff • February 16 2025
https://www.boxofficepro.com/weekend-box-office-new-captain-america-marks-another-presidents-day-weekend-win-for-the-mcu/ 

Quote

1. Captain America: Brave New World
Marvel Studios | NEW
$88.5M 3-Day Domestic Opening Weekend
$100M 4-Day Weekend
$192.4M Global 4-Day Total
*  *  *
The superhero movie wound up at #1 with an estimated $88.5M 3-Day domestic total alongside a projected $100M 4-Day President’s Day holiday gross on 4,105 screens for a $21,559 Per Screen Average. That’s easily the biggest debut of the year as well as the fourth-best President’s Day gross ever. The top single theater in the country was AMC Disney Springs in Orlando with over $172K. No matter how Cap ultimately does for the studio, it drove overall theatrical business to nearly 50% above this same frame in 2024 when Bob Marley: One Love was the top film.
*  *  *
While this is actually on the higher-end of our prediction panel’s estimates going into the weekend, it’s not necessarily the best when grading on the Marvel Cinematic Universe curve. This studio has had 20 of their 35 films open over $100M for the 3-Day, including their first movie Iron Man in 2008. Brave New World opened to far less than the last Captain America movie, 2016’s Civil War ($179.1M), although that was more of an ensemble Avengers movie. That $88.5M 3-Day is also considerably less than the $106.1M that Ant-Man and The Wasp: Quantumania opened to on Feb 17 of 2023. Quantumania also earned the ire of critics and fans, then wound up dropping 70% in its second weekend with $31.9M, leading to a box office freefall. The first two Captain America movies debuted with $65M and $95M, respectively, with over a decade of inflation not being taken into account. The new Cap adventure opened in closest proximity to other MCU sequels like 2013’s Thor: The Dark World ($85.7M, $206.3M domestic total) and 2016’s Doctor Strange ($85M, $232.6M domestic total).

With audiences split 63% male to 37% female, here’s how age demos looked…

• Under 12 – 4%
• 13-17 – 8%
• 18-24 – 20%
• 25-34 – 23%
• 35-44 – 20%
• 45-54 – 15%
• 55+ – 10%

*  *  *
Outside factors played against the film during production, including being delayed from a prime summer 2024 slot to the dog days of February, having been shot prior to the post-Marvels creative reset at the studio, lots of reshoots/rejiggering that reportedly never helped test scores, as well as a peculiar reliance on characters and events from less-loved MCU entries like The Incredible Hulk and Eternals. Disney+ streaming The Falcon and The Winter Soldier series was a great way to ramp up to Anthony Mackie taking up the mantle of Captain America from Chris Evans… except that show ended four years ago.

Edited Monday at 01:21 PM by tv echo

[tennisgurl]

First of all, this is not the trainwreck that some of the early reviews and internet complainers have acted like it is. I know that I'm a blatant MCU apologist who has found the most recent batch of MCU movies like The Eternals and the Marvels to be underrated, but I mostly feel like this movies biggest crime is being sort of average, a place holder to move the greater MCU plot along to the next thing. The acting was all quite good, but the plot, the dialogue, the quips, even the fight scenes and effects, felt like they were sleepwalking towards the end credits until we can set up our next thing. There was a lifeless quality to it that I hope the MCU shakes off. 

Anthony Mackie continues to do a lot with whatever he is given, and he really is a good Cap, even if he's forever going to be stuck in the shadow of Chris Evans on some level. I think that the script didn't give him quite enough to work with here, I wish that they had leaned more into his conflicted feelings about Ross as his president, wanting to respect the office of president and being a symbol of the country while not really liking the guy, but what we got of that was still pretty good. 

Harrison Ford was more engaged than I have seen him on the big screen in awhile, and I think that's why this Ross seems so different than the thundering asshole he's been for most of the MCU. Thanks to his performance, I can actually buy that Ross, getting older and filled with more regrets, wants to be a better person and wants to reconnect with Betty but falls back into his old habits under stress, and it does actually feel tragic. I wish that they had acknowledged more that, in his previous performances, he was not exactly a well intentioned man who thought he was doing things for the greater good but a huge dick who hurt people for the sake of his ego and power, but I can see why this version makes for the more interesting antagonist. 

I highly suspected that Bucky would make a cameo, and holy crap did the movie come alive when he showed up! Joaquin is fun and all but its hard to beat that snarky best buds chemistry that Buck and Sam so naturally have, his five minutes were probably my favorite part of the movie. Although I do have to wonder, who sold angsty traumatized sweatshirt wearing shut in Bucky on becoming a politician? I guess I'm happy that he's doin better, but where the hell did that come from?

It was nice that they brought back so many characters and elements from The Hulk (except for Bruce) and dealt more with the fallout from Eternals, which I have been waiting for since Eternals ended, there is a lot to be mined from those stories. 

It was great seeing Isaiah Bradley again, I was so worried that they would kill him off for maximum angst, so I was relieved when he made it. That's the thing about this movie, lots of good bits, but they never really come together to make something great. 

Edited Monday at 07:59 PM by tennisgurl

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 2/15/2025 at 11:39 AM, Raja said:

I guess at this point MCU America knows all about the Soviet and Hydra brain washing. As a last chance to vote for the greatest generation as well as a hero of both fights against Thanos how could he lose?

Responding in the Thunderbolts* thread.

[Hanahope]

i was glad that the celestial was finally acknowledged in some way.

i almost thought Liv Tyler's only "appearance" was going to be that phone call for a while, it nearly was until she finally showed up for a brief scene at the end.  yet still got quite high billing.    At least Bucky said more than her. 

The reshoots with Giancarlo were unfortunately pretty obvious.  I hope they do right by him the next time he shows up.

Harrison Ford almost stole the movie from Anthony Mackie.  Did i miss it or did they cut Sam's "you're right" line when Ross said "you're not Steve Rogers"?  I swear i didn't hear it.  

[baldryanr]

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Although I do have to wonder, who sold angsty traumatized sweatshirt wearing shut in Bucky on becoming a politician? I guess I'm happy that he's doin better, but where the hell did that come from?

Especially since a first term member of Congress is almost completely powerless - if the public considers him a great hero then this seems too small for him.  Run for mayor or governor.

[Raja]

11 hours ago, baldryanr said:

Especially since a first term member of Congress is almost completely powerless - if the public considers him a great hero then this seems too small for him.  Run for mayor or governor.

Bucky and Steve were from Brooklyn. They would have to spread time and nerd capital to relocate Bucky because they have plans for street level NYC local politicians already in play.

[iarwain]

On 2/15/2025 at 9:00 PM, Raja said:

I think the force multiplier of being part of the MCU has now flipped and instead of getting bonus points from adding to the grand story that because we can't see a grand story being pointed to like the Avengers we are getting deductions other movies would not have held against them for not getting them.

It's almost become boring, because Marvel movies have become so formulaic.  Plus they disregard the core fans, and the current overarching story about the multiverse is IMO, inherently a bad one.  The good part is that it will likely be used to end up with a world that includes the Fantastic Four and X-Men along with the MCU heroes.

[Raja]

2 minutes ago, iarwain said:

It's almost become boring, because Marvel movies have become so formulaic.  Plus they disregard the core fans, and the current overarching story about the multiverse is IMO, inherently a bad one.  The good part is that it will likely be used to end up with a world that includes the Fantastic Four and X-Men along with the MCU heroes.

I guess you can say that all of the post Avengers: Endgame, and the Spider-Man epilog movies the content has been just trying to hold a place and mark time until The Fantastic Four and X-Men could be fit in.

Between COVID and the strikes and having the returning MCU characters blip, thus should be 5 years younger I think they missed their window for the current MCU heroes. By the time a Young Avengers come you will have 30 something actors trying to pass for college freshmen.

You might as well own that the MCU greatest generation is gone and are now historical figures because of real life actors can not shrug off aging like super soldiers and aliens. And now that we have the source comics greatest generation coming just start over, at least don't depend on middle aged airmen flying suits that the next generation can be put into. And like the MCU was built on the B list just go ahead without that B team that became the movie A list like you did when you had no choice and were young and hungry with the eye of the tiger.

To this movie and the old MCU, besides Cap's wings where was Wakanda, they were in the prequel Falcon and the Winter Soldier? They are the MCU superpower because of vibranium and suddenly we have adamantium spring up with America and Japan. In her role as the replacement for Nick Fury in America, Valentina Allegra de Fontaine? I got a feeling the production schedules left no time to deconflict Captain America from whatever will happen in  Thunderbolts*

[Linderhill]

I enjoyed the movie, I tend to ignore critics since they aren't me and do not speak for me and my tastes.  I had a couple of things that bugged me the main one being that the cherry blossoms in DC do not look like that, ever.  Whoever decided that was a good effect obviously never actually saw the the cherry blossoms.

I loved the Bucky cameo and I'm also curious about the sudden turn to politics.

[Raja]

15 minutes ago, Linderhill said:

I loved the Bucky cameo and I'm also curious about the sudden turn to politics.

I have lost the story's timeline, how long has it been since Captain America challenged the congress to do better? Or the Wakanda Talokan War? Or for that matter how long did the US chase Skrulls? The troops seemed to accept Sam as the Cap before President Ross called but Sam still seemed uncertain about accepting the role.

[Raja]

On 2/17/2025 at 2:42 PM, Hanahope said:

 

The reshoots with Giancarlo were unfortunately pretty obvious.  I hope they do right by him the next time he shows up.

Harrison Ford almost stole the movie from Anthony Mackie.  Did i miss it or did they cut Sam's "you're right" line when Ross said "you're not Steve Rogers"?  I swear i didn't hear it.  

With his revolver and knife that maybe penetrated vibranium some are speculating that as with The Marvels the reshoots and demands to cut running time down left Giancarlo's weapons being adamamatium tipped on the cutting room floor. 

I also don't think the Steve Rogers line, a reprise of The Falcon and the Winter Soldier made the final cut.

[arc]

Mid AF, but not the kind of mediocre that comes from not giving a damn. There's a lot of good ideas in there that I think just didn't get enough cooking time. Plus, there's Marvel's desperate wish to be apolitical while somehow making a "political thriller". Winter Soldier was like half a thriller blended into MCU formula, but this is a quarter of a thriller. And -- as with FATWS -- the racial themes were added and then toned way down until you barely noticed. The fight scenes were MCU-average, but I appreciate that they don't even pretend the shield bouncing makes sense any more. Sam just throws it wherever the hell he feels like and it magically comes back.

I really do like the idea that Sam's empathy is one of his greatest assets.

I didn't like that Joaquin Torres knew who Isaiah Bradley was but not that he'd been unjustly imprisoned for three decades. That's fundamental to Bradley's story! They wrapped up FATWS with Sam ensuring Bradley's story was told! Did Torres just sleep through the stuff that was embarrassing for the US?

I've never liked the MCU idea that vibranium is basically magic and enables anything. The MU idea of a magical metal that "absorbs vibrations" is credulity-straining enough. But now adamantium is a better vibranium? Not just the MU "indestructible metal"? Yeesh.

Also, where are the Eternals in all this? Did they stop giving a shit after Tiamut died? Who even told humans that this was a dead Celestial?

general MCU digression follows:

Also, Sam kept muttering about wishing he'd taken the serum. Is that still on the table? Cause he kind of talks like it is. I haven't rewatched FATWS, but I thought all doses of the new serum were lost by now. That said, the thing about science is that is not something only one irreplaceable genius can do, and so if Erskine could make the serum and then that other guy in FATWS could basically replicate it, then surely some third person could also re-make the serum. Which gets me to my point: the difference between sci-fi and superhero stories is that in sci-fi, the logical extrapolations of  technology are followed. Why isn't the serum widespread? And with this treaty spreading adamantium world wide*, will the whole world soon have super-tech like Wakanda? And meanwhile, why is the world not already running on miniature arc reactors? It's been like 15 years since Iron Man 1. In the real world, we went from the Wright Brothers in 1903 to the first transatlantic flight 16 years later.

* which, speaking of Marvel trying to sidestep politics, I found it very hard to believe America would spearhead a movement to ensure global access instead of trying to lock it up for themselves.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

18 hours ago, arc said:

Which gets me to my point: the difference between sci-fi and superhero stories is that in sci-fi, the logical extrapolations of  technology are followed. Why isn't the serum widespread?

I agree with you in principle, but in practice, the issue with the serum has always been the potential for misuse or the wrong person receiving it. That's how we get John Walker and his nonsense. A good person like Sam could probably take it with no ill effects, but I can see how he would be cautious given the evidence of things going wrong. Hell, if someone had bothered to ask Isaiah all those years ago, "Do you want this?" he'd have said no. The similarity between sci-fi and superhero stories is that people are always screwing around with stuff they don't understand, and then something either explodes or it "just" falls into the wrong hands.

[Raja]

2 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

I agree with you in principle, but in practice, the issue with the serum has always been the potential for misuse or the wrong person receiving it. That's how we get John Walker and his nonsense. A good person like Sam could probably take it with no ill effects, but I can see how he would be cautious given the evidence of things going wrong. Hell, if someone had bothered to ask Isaiah all those years ago, "Do you want this?" he'd have said no. The similarity between sci-fi and superhero stories is that people are always screwing around with stuff they don't understand, and then something either explodes or it "just" falls into the wrong hands.

We have had different super soldier serums from the flawed Red Skull growing a red demon head to the perfected Erskine with Steve Rogers which made his body grow. Where we got the reinforce what you are basic theme

But since then we got whatever Leviathan/ Soviet Hydra gave Bucky Barnes, the exploding soldiers in Iron Man 3,  and to start that series the product improvement on the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. The Vibranium infused heart shaped herb of the Black Panthers and sea urchins the Lakotan's ate. What Isiah Bradley was given on to The Falcon and The Winter Soldier version that Sam might have had access to.