S01.E10: The Devil You Know

[AnimeMania]

When Margaret finds herself on the verge of losing a prominent case involving the murder of an investigative journalist, Todd seeks help from an unlikely source: his imprisoned ex-girlfriend, Veronica (Eliza Coupe).

Premiere Date: January 5, 2023        9pm    CBS

Clayton James (Chuck Grant)
Thomas Cadrot (Chet Venables)

Eliza Coupe (Veronica Caron)
Ashley Jones (Kathleen Baylis)
Jennifer Tony (Suzi Mirsky)
Ian Collins (Herb Mulholland)
Ella Quashie (Alice Mulholland)
Sean Kuling (Detective Luke Anten)
Will E. McDonald (Menacing Security Guard)
Ava Johnson (Prison Guard)
Michelle Choi-Lee (D.A. Thomas)
Nancy Kerr (Judge Cleary)
Candus Churchill (Judge Ridge)
Russell Porter (Keith Baylis)

[chaifan]

I'll admit to not paying 100% attention when watching this show, but have we even heard of Veronica before this episode?  Or of anyone who caused Todd to lose his license?  It seems to me that in the first few episodes Todd was played as the screw-up, and that the loss of his license was nothing but his fault alone.  Is this now being retconned so that Todd was the victim?  It seems to be a weird rewriting of history this far into the season. 

I'm not thrilled with the introduction of Veronica, and her release at the end of the episode.  Is she now supposed to be a professional and/or romantic foil?  This seems unnecessary, and sort of a dark twist in an otherwise fluffy show. 

 

 

[shapeshifter]

26 minutes ago, chaifan said:

I'll admit to not paying 100% attention when watching this show, but have we even heard of Veronica before this episode?  Or of anyone who caused Todd to lose his license?  It seems to me that in the first few episodes Todd was played as the screw-up, and that the loss of his license was nothing but his fault alone.  Is this now being retconned so that Todd was the victim?  It seems to be a weird rewriting of history this far into the season. 

I'm not thrilled with the introduction of Veronica, and her release at the end of the episode.  Is she now supposed to be a professional and/or romantic foil?  This seems unnecessary, and sort of a dark twist in an otherwise fluffy show. 

ITA. If Veronica is going to be a less violent Red John to Todd’s mentalism, I might quit the show. Especially if she takes screen time away from Todd and his Mom. I prefer the fluff. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

I'll admit to not paying 100% attention when watching this show, but have we even heard of Veronica before this episode?  Or of anyone who caused Todd to lose his license?  It seems to me that in the first few episodes Todd was played as the screw-up, and that the loss of his license was nothing but his fault alone.  Is this now being retconned so that Todd was the victim?  It seems to be a weird rewriting of history this far into the season. 

No, they did explain this to be the case in the pilot episode. I don't know if they said "Veronica" by name but the story was that he'd been duped by a love interest and almost went to jail as a result, which is why he lost his license. 

I knew Veronica would get out of jail because I didn't figure Eliza Coupe would be cast as a one-off. I can't say I'm crazy about the development, though. I do like her, as an actress, but I'm happy with the status quo right now and I don't think they need to throw that angle into the mix. 

[Sarah 103]

I knew Vernoica was going to get out, but I didn't expect it to be this episode. I thought that was something they would save for the season finale. I love how well Vernoica knows his family. It didn't come off as creepy stalker, "I know where you live and who your family members are." To me, it came off as "remember how close we used to be and weren't those good times?" 

Overall, I enjoyed the episode. 

[Simba122504]

So, I'm trying to understand the Todd, Veronica and Susan timelines. How old is Todd again?  You have to be 18 or 21 (depending on the state) to even get a P.I. license. Susan knew nothing about Todd and Vernoica. So their relationship was before Todd met Veronica and became a PI. They didn't meet in law school because he never attended law school. I actually ship them, but how did they meet?   

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, Simba122504 said:

So, I'm trying to understand the Todd, Veronica and Susan timelines.

I think Todd, Susan, and that "poor" criminal guy were all in High School together, since they were all invited to that baby shower at the same time. While Susan was off getting her law degree, Todd was learning to be a P.I.

[MissL]

5 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I think Todd, Susan, and that "poor" criminal guy were all in High School together, since they were all invited to that baby shower at the same time. While Susan was off getting her law degree, Todd was learning to be a P.I.

That makes sense. So high school sweethearts maybe? Explains why their “relationship” feels so immature. Still not feeling the chemistry and disappointed the show seems to still be pushing that ship. Just focus on Todd and his family and maybe down the line find him someone he clicks with because usually I see it in whatever show Skyler is in and I’m just not seeing this one. In concept I can see why maybe it’s a good idea but maybe they need a new actress for Susan? 

And…As much as she was right to keep talking about it with him privately I was super mad at his sister for outing him to their mom about Veronica.  As far as she knows he kept a pretty big secret for her. Which I guess good for Todd I was expecting him to drop that bomb within earshot of her husband when they were all arguing at dinner and he didn’t.

Also can we figure out any way for him to sing? I don’t care how shoehorned or ridiculous they make it I’ll take it. The show makes me turn off my brain and all I know about court rooms and procedure and…real life…so I can keep doing that. 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, MissL said:

Also can we figure out any way for him to sing? I don’t care how shoehorned or ridiculous they make it I’ll take it.

Yes. Todd singing and dancing, please.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Also can we figure out any way for him to sing? I don’t care how shoehorned or ridiculous they make it I’ll take it. The show makes me turn off my brain and all I know about court rooms and procedure and…real life…so I can keep doing that.

I think they'd probably be able to pull it off, because part of Todd's schtick is that he's always pretending to be someone else, so a situation could arise where he has to pretend he's a singer. But they wouldn't be able to get away with something like that very often before it got too gimmicky. 

[shapeshifter]

1 minute ago, iMonrey said:

I think they'd probably be able to pull it off, because part of Todd's schtick is that he's always pretending to be someone else, so a situation could arise where he has to pretend he's a singer. But they wouldn't be able to get away with something like that very often before it got too gimmicky. 

If they do have Todd pretending to be a professional singer (and dancer?), Skylar Austin is too skilled to just play it straight. 
I assume he would deliberately throw in a few off-notes to convey that he was not a professional entertainer.

[AnimeMania]

There are plenty of ways to get Todd to sing, wedding singer, backup singer, singing jingles for commercials, etc.

They could even throw in some jokes about Susan trying to hire the guy that sang at the wedding to perform at her wedding after watching some uploaded youtube footage where you can never quite make out the face of the guy performing. "He is even singing my favorite song from High School".

Edited January 7, 2023 by AnimeMania

[Simba122504]

5 hours ago, MissL said:

That makes sense. So high school sweethearts maybe? Explains why their “relationship” feels so immature. Still not feeling the chemistry and disappointed the show seems to still be pushing that ship. Just focus on Todd and his family and maybe down the line find him someone he clicks with because usually I see it in whatever show Skyler is in and I’m just not seeing this one. In concept I can see why maybe it’s a good idea but maybe they need a new actress for Susan? 

I ship them and my shipping track record is diamond. I only lost once. But we don't know the future of this show. It may not even get a S2. It's all up to CBS. 

[NJRadioGuy]

On 1/7/2023 at 3:38 PM, Simba122504 said:

But we don't know the future of this show. It may not even get a S2. It's all up to CBS. 

They're hovering less than 0.4 in the target demo. Barring a miracle they're one-and-done.

[Sarah 103]

20 hours ago, NJRadioGuy said:

They're hovering less than 0.4 in the target demo. Barring a miracle they're one-and-done.

Unless Paramount+ is desperate for content, which is a possibility. 

[NJRadioGuy]

21 hours ago, NJRadioGuy said:

They're hovering less than 0.4 in the target demo. Barring a miracle they're one-and-done.

29 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

Unless Paramount+ is desperate for content, which is a possibility. 

They got a "Full Season Order" (likely 18 episodes) in September so there's still a chance it can improve if they start promoting it heavily, but even with that it's not much of a chance.

Here's last week: 0.37 in the key demo by itself isn't horrible these days (not great but not awful), however with mega-hit Ghosts as a lead-in and it loses nearly half its audience is saying something. SVU on NBC is nearly double Todd's ratings in the 18-49 in the same timeslot. The only measurement that matters on the renew/cancel decision is the 18-49 demo based on C3 (commercials watching within 3 days of live).

[eel21788]

On 1/7/2023 at 1:28 AM, Simba122504 said:

How old is Todd again? 

I think he is in his mid-thirties.

[eel21788]

On 1/7/2023 at 2:39 AM, AnimeMania said:

I think Todd, Susan, and that "poor" criminal guy were all in High School together, since they were all invited to that baby shower at the same time. 

On 1/7/2023 at 8:01 AM, MissL said:

So high school sweethearts maybe? Explains why their “relationship” feels so immature.

I went to the same high school as Todd did. I'm amazed at how many of us barely knew each other in high school but ended up getting married long after graduation.  I think there are a lot of people who just never managed to make it out of SW Portland. It was a nice place to grow up, but I can't understand the concept of deciding to live there permanently. Maybe there is some Boundary (this is a pun that you will only get if you also went to Wilson High School) that can't be penetrated.

[Simba122504]

On 1/8/2023 at 6:47 PM, NJRadioGuy said:

They're hovering less than 0.4 in the target demo. Barring a miracle they're one-and-done.

I wouldn't mind if it's sent to P+ even though I don't have P+ 😄 But my mom wants to sign up for Walmart+ and P+ is included with your membership. It depends on many things. "Evil" was moved to P+ after one season and Seal Team after four seasons? 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Simba122504

[NJRadioGuy]

A little better this week but still below 0.4, and with Ghosts as its lead-in doing so much stronger (0.57) and its competition, SVU, higher still, it's pretty clear that this is a valid rating and probably won't go much higher. I would like to see a second season but the hour is getting late for Todd. 

[twoods]

I don’t know why they wouldn’t renew it. It doesn’t seem like a very expensive series to film, and the storylines are engaging (to me anyways). They really need to have a karaoke episode so Skylar can sing, damn it!

I like the actress that plays Veronica so don’t mind her as an addition to the cast.

[shapeshifter]

1 minute ago, twoods said:

doesn’t seem like a very expensive series to film

But the 2 leads may command high salaries. Anyone know?

[MerBearHou]

I so enjoy this show -- c'mon, CBS, renew it!!!  Marsha Gay and Skylar and the rest of the cast are so good and the stories are well-done.  It holds my attention every single time.  

[Johannah]

On 1/5/2023 at 11:05 PM, shapeshifter said:

ITA. If Veronica is going to be a less violent Red John to Todd’s mentalism, I might quit the show. Especially if she takes screen time away from Todd and his Mom. I prefer the fluff. 

I do, too.  But if it's just going to be a recurring role, helping out sometimes, perhaps lightly confusing Todd about his feelings, I'm okay with that.  But as his nemesis, story-arc antagonist ... no.  I really enjoy the show, so I probably won't quit unless things become 'dark'.

[Cherry Styles]

I really like Eliza Coupe. No matter what she is in. She plays a bitch really well, like on Scrubs, and can also play a nicer character like on Happy Endings.  I loved that show.  Anyway, good to see her here.