S03.E05: No Way Out

[Cranberry]

Quote

In the world of the mulefa, Mary makes a heartbreaking discovery. Lyra and Will journey through the Land of the Dead in search of Roger.

Original air date: December 18, 2022 (BBC iPlayer); December 19, 2022 (HBO); January 15, 2023 (BBC One).

[Cranberry]

I love how they showed Mary learning the mulefa language, trunk/arm movements and all. Having the subtitles fade from the mulefa language to English, leaving only words Mary understood, was a really nice touch, and it was cool seeing more and more words remain as she learned the language. The mulefa rolling on the seedpods also looked cool, not goofy, which is something I was worried about. Their whole world is just really pretty and neat.

I'm glad the show also reminded us that Mary, as the serpent, is extremely important to the entire prophecy.

[bluestocking]

23 hours ago, Cranberry said:

I'm glad the show also reminded us that Mary, as the serpent, is extremely important to the entire prophecy.

Pullman has been deeply interested in Hermetic thought since his years as an undergraduate at Oxford and read Frances Yates' Giordano Bruno and the Hermetic Tradition.  So it's not surprising he draws on literary alchemy in His Dark Materials.  It's obvious from the opening epigraph from William Blake.  

In literary alchemy, unlike Genesis, the serpent plays a positive role--in bringing the Male and Female Principles of the Great Work together.  In The Amber Spyglass, Mary plays the role of serpent/Mercurius, while Lyra is Argentvive/Mercury and Will is Sulphur; Lyra and Will unite in the climactic Chemical Wedding which saves the multiverse.  In this alchemical image, Mary is the serpent woman in the middle, with the symbol for Mercury over her head; Will is Sulphur, with the Sun over his head (Sulphur = Sun); and Lyra is Argentvive/Mercury with the Moon over her head (Argentvive = Moon).  They are all standing in the Mercurial water.  

[aghst]

The Mulefa parts were interesting, beautiful landscapes and scenery design.

No sense of time but I guess Mary is suppose to be picking up the language quickly enough to understand what's happening.

This show goes from one wondrous landscape to another.  That hall with Metatron floating in the middle was another one.

Purgatory was dark and so it seemed they didn't put a lot into it.

Interesting mythology at work.  Sounds like the books are full of allusions the the reader is expected to dig into.

Coulter destroyed the aiming mechanism but the bolt of energy still made it towards Purgatory?

Lyra to Roger -- you've changed.  No kidding, Lyra used to tower over Roger and now he's taller -- though the actress has entered puberty since the earlier seasons.

Lyra and Will go into the Land of the Dead, which is neither heaven nor hell, without a specific plan other than hoping they could cut their way out with the Knife.

They find reminiscing with the dead helps them remember their lives, making them want to return.  They also figure out somehow that the Knife would only work if they climbed to a high point.

They could have been there for years before figuring out any of this. 

[Bill1978]

3 hours ago, aghst said:

Coulter destroyed the aiming mechanism but the bolt of energy still made it towards Purgatory?

For some reason I assumed that bolt was from Metatron and not the weapon.

Kinda disappointed with how Hugh the Father President meant his demise. I guess I was hoping for something a little more satisfying. And I hope Roke isn't dead - hard to tell without a daemon dusting into the air.

Speaking of daemons, and keeping in mind I may not fully understand the mythology of this world and mixing up my anaolgies, but if daemons represent our soul, shouldn't they be the ones in The Land of the Dead? Or are daemons just the physical representation of our soul on Earth and when we die, our soul takes the shape of our human form in the afterlife?

 

Loved seeing the Mulefa rolling around on the seed pods. Didn't seem as odd or crazy as I was expecting. While I am grateful for Mary's role being explored in the story, I feel in terms of time her story is either travelling in leaps and bounds while everyone else is just spinning in circles. The time frames don't exactly match up.

While I thought it was nice to see Roger and Lyra running around during the innocent time of the first season, it was an intersting choice to use those scenes to show how much the actors have changed - especially Roger since technically he should not have changed since his death. But I'm happy to handwave, cause you know, kids grow.

And again, I did not miss Asriel at all.Probably cause his Republic of Heaven confuses me because its so political in its design.

And those scenes in 'Heaven' was glorious. Especially the appearance of Metatron.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

9 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

Speaking of daemons, and keeping in mind I may not fully understand the mythology of this world and mixing up my anaolgies, but if daemons represent our soul, shouldn't they be the ones in The Land of the Dead? Or are daemons just the physical representation of our soul on Earth and when we die, our soul takes the shape of our human form in the afterlife?

You have a body and a spirit and a soul. The soul is the daemon. The spirit becomes the ghost.

[Bill1978]

53 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

You have a body and a spirit and a soul. The soul is the daemon. The spirit becomes the ghost.

Thank you for the explanation. I've only read the first book, so I really appreciate this. I can now continue watching without being distracted by this thought.

[mrspidey]

On 12/20/2022 at 6:46 AM, aghst said:

Coulter destroyed the aiming mechanism but the bolt of energy still made it towards Purgatory?

[...]

Lyra and Will go into the Land of the Dead, which is neither heaven nor hell, without a specific plan other than hoping they could cut their way out with the knife.

1. The aiming mechanism was locked on Lyra's position. Coulter then pulls out Lyra's strain of hair, so the aiming device isn't following Lyra's movements anymore. So it hits the position she WAS in, not the one she IS in.

 

2. They got in with the knife, so there is no reason for them to assume they can't get out using it. There isn't any issue with the knife or the fabric between the LotD and other worlds.it's just that they are so far deep down that Will keeps cutting into bedrock in all the other worlds.

Edited December 21, 2022 by mrspidey

[Bill1978]

3 hours ago, mrspidey said:

2. They got in with the knife, so there is no reason for them to assume they can't get out using it. There isn't any issue with the knife or the fabric between the LotD and other worlds.it's just that they are so far deep down that Will keeps cutting into bedrock in all the other worlds.

Now it makes sense to why Lyra jumped to the conclusion that they needed to go higher. And to think I teach Earth Science and didn't make that connection. My defence is I forgot that's how the knife works. I just thought it opened a portal totally forgetting that it opens the portal it literally the same place in the other world. Or maybe it's because my brain didn't register that they went downhill on their journey. Either way I'm dumb so thank you for the explanation.

[Mr. Sparkle]

15 minutes ago, Bill1978 said:

Now it makes sense to why Lyra jumped to the conclusion that they needed to go higher. And to think I teach Earth Science and didn't make that connection. My defence is I forgot that's how the knife works. I just thought it opened a portal totally forgetting that it opens the portal it literally the same place in the other world. Or maybe it's because my brain didn't register that they went downhill on their journey. Either way I'm dumb so thank you for the explanation.

If it makes you feel better, I didn't get that either. 

[grawlix]

7 hours ago, mrspidey said:

2. They got in with the knife, so there is no reason for them to assume they can't get out using it. There isn't any issue with the knife or the fabric between the LotD and other worlds.it's just that they are so far deep down that Will keeps cutting into bedrock in all the other worlds.

I guess that can be an adequate explanation.  But the knife is sharp enough to cut thru Iorek's armor with ease,  it shouldn't have an issue with cutting thru bedrock, right?   The scene would work better if Will actually open a window with the knife but show the entrance was blocked by the bedrock.  That would explain Lyra's suggestion to go to higher ground.

[Tachi Rocinante]

Just when Lyra gets the verbal smackdown she deserves, it turns into sap again.

These people are not all in the ICU in comas.  They are dead.  Unless releasing them lets them go to wherever they're supposed to end up, I don't understand the confusion.  Are Heaven and Hell full?

Rollerblading tapirs?  Ummkay.

[Cranberry]

1 hour ago, Tachi Rocinante said:

Are Heaven and Hell full?

They don't exist. Like that one ghost woman acknowledged, many of the ghosts there had spent their entire lives in prayer and silence expecting to go to Heaven when they died. However, everyone ends up in the Land of the Dead.

6 hours ago, grawlix said:

The scene would work better if Will actually open a window with the knife but show the entrance was blocked by the bedrock.

He did say "I can only feel rock," but that was pretty blink-and-you'll-miss-it.

[Bill1978]

3 hours ago, Cranberry said:

However, everyone ends up in the Land of the Dead.

Another dumb question, I assume the Land of the Dead is only for the humans across the multiverse? Or is it only humans from Lyra's world? Like if a Mulefa dies, or those tiny people do they end up in the Land of the Dead or somewhere else. Cause we only saw human ghosts.

[Cranberry]

47 minutes ago, Bill1978 said:

Another dumb question, I assume the Land of the Dead is only for the humans across the multiverse? Or is it only humans from Lyra's world? Like if a Mulefa dies, or those tiny people do they end up in the Land of the Dead or somewhere else. Cause we only saw human ghosts.

Took my answer to the Questions for Book Readers thread!

[Black Knight]

On 12/21/2022 at 5:58 PM, Cranberry said:

He did say "I can only feel rock," but that was pretty blink-and-you'll-miss-it.

But Lyra did hear him, which led to her figuring out they needed to go to higher ground.

I loved seeing the mulefas' world. It was nice to have some delightful sensawunda again.

The fact that souls are not allowed in the Land of the Dead should have cued Lyra and Will right away that there is something very, very wrong with the afterlife as it's currently constructed. I guess by the Authority, or by Metatron after he took over ruling? It does not make sense for the soul to be divided from the spirit in the afterlife.

[NJRadioGuy]

Well that was a mostly-depressing hour of television. Since there are only three episodes I'll stick it out, but if this was an ongoing open-ended story I think I'd be ready to bail. For as much as they do great world-building, the story has become tedious and at times difficult to follow. Plus out of however many billions of people who have died through the millennia, we only see this small group, and they easily find two dead characters amongst them after barely searching (well, one finds them). The HDM Shark has been jumped as far as I'm concerned. I just want to see the end and then forget how much time I wasted on this.