S16E01/ E02 Just Getting Started, Sicarius

[rtms77]

Quote

The team comes together to stop a family annihilator, but clues lead to a startling conclusion that will test the team once again.

Edited November 28, 2022 by rtms77

[rtms77]

Well I’ll start off I guess, strangely this is on Disney+ in Canada. I’m go8ngbto comment on the characters first before the case.
 

Rossi, wow Joe Mantenga really lost weight and looks terrible . I get they were going for the haggard look but hmm too much. As for his depression? He knew his wife was terminal when they married, I would of thought he would be more stoic about her death than going depressed rage workholic.

Prentiss seems to have lost her touch? I hope she goes back in the field she doesn’t belong behind a desk. 
JJ is still JJ. I’m amazed she and Will are still together. 
Alves and Tara whatever. 
Garcia, why is she back! I’m sorry but she’s still not appropriate with the team. 
 

It will be interesting working on one case and busting it. Now that the show is on streaming I guess they can open it up more, blood , and cursing even. Unfortunately when ever Joe got to drop an F bomb, it just came out silly, like fake anger type expression. I also kept think8ng, if Reid had been around he would have figured out the network angle instantly. I’m going to miss him. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by rtms77

[Danielg342]

Well, they tried.

I know there were two episodes...but really, they were practically one long one and the issues present in one episode were present in the other so it's better to grade them together than separately.

Let me start by saying, honestly, if this wasn't a show I've watched for years on end and if this forum wasn't so engaging with lively discussion, then I don't know how much I would want to bother with watching the rest of the season.

...but...

As Dave Rossi and Emily Prentiss themselves implied in the second episode, catharsis from misery sure is easier when you have company, and here there is company.

So, as long as I'm not alone in hate-watching this thing, I'll be around.

That said...the episode...

...um...I really don't know.

I'll give the writers this much- at least the connection to the cases is simple with the briefcases. Still incredibly implausible and absolutely ridiculous, but, hey, this is Hollywood.

Joe Mantegna seems to have been revived, as he was stellar throughout. It was strange seeing Rossi swear up a storm but Mantegna sold it like the champ he is, plus that scene with Rossi and the daughter at the end of the first episode was touching and emotional, and I loved every minute of it.

Kirsten Vangsness also reminded me about why I liked Penelope Garcia at first, because when Garcia could be her cutesy self but still act like an adult, she was riveting. Unfortunately, towards the end it looked like the bad Garcia was starting to show up again, so I'm not sure how excited I'll be about Garcia going forward.

Glad that Paget Brewster is going with the haggard look, not just because it's refreshing that Hollywood is letting an actress actually show her age but also because haggard suits the Prentiss character. I don't like how I waited an episode and a half to realize she's now the new Section Chief, replacing Matteo Cruz (quietly fired by the looks of it), but at least the role suits her.

Oh, and Prentiss' quip about her being the only one who is "not getting laid around here" was gold. Though I'm not sure I felt the temperature rise when Tara Lewis showed off her new girlfriend.

I also liked how there's actually some hints that JJ's workload could actually start affecting her marriage, even if that storyline is eleven years too late. Yeah, it's a bit of a retread of the Hotch storyline, but if they can make this storyline fresh and are actually committed to seeing it through (that means no cutting corners where it's solved with some simple JJ peptalk or Will "just accepting things" like he used to), this could actually be interesting.

Also interesting- did A.J. want to show off how badly she hit the gym or something? I'm not criticizing her look because I think she looks fantastic, but I also noticed JJ bore her abs more in these last two episodes than she did in the entire series beforehand, and it's not like she was wearing anything truly risqué.

I mean, despite bearing her abs, we still didn't see her navel.

That's about it when it comes to the positives.

I'll miss Reid and Simmons for sure but I'm also glad neither are back because I'm sure if they were, they wouldn't be that great of characters anyway. They weren't in CM's final days so what makes me think it would be different in the revival?

Speaking of which, Luke might as well have not been there because I don't know what he added. Guess there's a testosterone quota on the team or something.

The deputy director guy...I don't like him. To make a pro wrestling analogy, when I say "I don't like him", it's not in the "good heel" sense where I can't wait for the day the good guys get to beat him up and give him his comeuppance...no, the deputy director is a "bad heel", a guy with "go away" heat who I never want to see ever again.

I mean, this character was so bad that he wasn't just dull and pointless- his scenes and his character actually dragged down the story and the episode, because his character is such a cliche that you can't help but roll your eyes the entire time he's on the screen because you can't believe the writers cooked him up like that.

It's like the writers checked off every box for "standard Obstructive Bureaucrat character" that was there before conceptualizing him. Wow. As much as I disliked Erin Strauss as a character, she was at least way more interesting than him.

I also need to throw shade at the show's practice of depicting actual harm to the men and never hurting the women, with only the women getting rescued. It's a continuation of the same kind of "woke" nonsense the show has been dealing since S10 or so, but it's also poor storytelling (since it telegraphs the eventual beats in the story) and isn't exactly as "progressive" as the show thinks it is. Not only does it make the male victims feel meaningless because the show deems them unworthy to save, it does the female victims no favours because they're reduced to being mere objects who need the heroes to save them.

It's the same victim exploitation and gratuitous violence nonsense that police procedurals nowadays have moved on from but CM, for some reason, still can't. Five minutes of some helpless, whimpering victim strapped to an operating table adds nothing to the story- in fact, CM could easily cut those scenes out and spend more time actually telling the story, having it make sense and giving it some actual stakes.

Yeah...the stakes.

I find that CM's biggest fault- even in its halcyon days- was that it wasted too much time with the atmospheric stuff and thus didn't always do enough to establish why the baddie present this week is some special, significant baddie worthy of my attention. Which is odd given that CM is all about exploring the motivations of the criminals, but the issue goes deeper than that.

To be clear, it's not about knowing why the criminal is doing what they are doing right from the beginning- I get that revealing the UnSub's true motivations for their crimes is the puzzle CM's entire framework is built around.

It's more about the show simply not understanding that simply having several dead bodies doesn't make for a special story. At least in the early days, regardless of how farcical it got, we understood our heroes were called in because the local police were at their wits' end trying to catch the criminal so they called in additional reinforcements.

Now we don't even see that anymore. I've said it many times before on this board that the police in the more recent CM days do little more than provide coffee and doughnuts for the FBI and let them solve their cases, because the UnSubs are written so poorly that you wondered why the police couldn't have captured them themselves.

I'm not sure I could make that complaint in these episodes because the police actually looked pretty competent, but there's another complaint in the same vein I will make.

So we won't know until the end why Sicarius is doing what he is doing- fine.

(If Sicarius is even a "he". Don't be surprised if CM throws that swerve...which could be a great way to bring Cat and Reid back but I digress)

However, why are these serial killers deciding to join Sicarius' network? What made Sicarius' network so special that the serial killers wanted to join it? Also, why are the serial killers so loyal to Sicarius that they will follow his commands and his actions to a tee, going so far as to kill themselves so that the FBI can't ask them questions that would lead them to Sicarius?

(Which isn't actually true anyway once you actually think about it...sure, Sicarius' lackey is dead but that doesn't mean you can't dig up information about them- like cell phone records, Internet chats, etc.- that could be traced back to Sicarius. In fact, people who are dead have less protection from intrusive FBI searches because dead people can't object about violations to their right to privacy because dead people have no rights (essentially). So Sicarius' "air-tight, foolproof plan" is even stupider once you do actually think about it)

Even if Sicarius' plan actually did work and actually did make sense, it's more of the same from CM's display of "group dynamics". There's always the jerk who "dominates" one or more pathetic minions, who follow the jerk's instructions to a tee without fail, until the climax where one of the pathetic minions decides he or she doesn't want to be pathetic anymore and "breaks the rules", leading to the group leader's capture.

Ostensibly, it's not a bad story, but CM writes those plots without adequately explaining why those particular group members decided to join up and need the group in the first place. Even in these episodes, why would either minion care so much about preserving Sicarius that they'd rather die than get live and be arrested? No matter what Sicarius would have on his lackeys, he should be smart enough to know that he can't rely on all of them to do exactly as he says, especially once they're in the crosshairs of the police. I mean, Sicarius is helping them be better serial killers- whether they are dead or arrested still means they're no longer serial killers. So why would a lackey bother committing suicide?

Evolution would have been far better if they went with these options:

1. A Ted Bundy, "better Chamaeleon" type of killer who not only constantly changes appearances but also constantly changes ruses, M.O.s, victimology, locations and every other practice about their kills because they know the BAU will profile them and constantly changing- or "evolving"- would throw a spanner into their profile. Yeah, this would be an extremely difficult character to write, but that should be the kind of challenge worthy of a serialized story. Plus, it makes the serialization process that much easier- the cases would appear to be different but we'd know that this time they actually are not.
2. A serial killer "consultant" who assists other would be serial killers in their craft. I know the show tried this in the S8 episode "The Apprentice" (which featured Matthew Lillard), but that premise would be perfect for a serialized case. It would also be a more believable way for Sicarius to operate, especially if he's going through the trouble of using all those encryption methods to contact his clients. If they're as good as Sicarius hopes, he wouldn't have to worry about whether or not his clients are caught because they couldn't be traced back to him.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

12 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

I also liked how there's actually some hints that JJ's workload could actually start affecting her marriage, even if that storyline is eleven years too late.

That's about as ridiculous as that "nothing more than a toothless 'shout out'" to the Jencer fans in the S14 finale.

[rtms77]

At this point if they do a JJ and Will break up over the job, it would be too depressing. It’s like not one agent working there can have a actual long term relationship. Which is just sad.
 

The story quality went down the drain when Erica Messing took over. In stead of slowly giving us clues about the unsub and why of the crime, the writers just blurt it out . That’s when the mystery leaves. The idea that covid drove killers indoors? Silly . If anything it would have become a optimum time to hunt and kill. They could conceal it better etc. 

I did like that they called out the feckless FBI for focusing on domestic terror and lumping serial killers as domestic terrors. Still it’s an insult to the BAU and those agents. What’s the point of the organization if your state or local police can do the same thing? 

Edited November 30, 2022 by rtms77

[Danielg342]

12 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

That's about as ridiculous as that "nothing more than a toothless 'shout out'" to the Jencer fans in the S14 finale.

Marital issues can happen at any moment, and, frankly, it's more believable that Will bottled up his emotions about JJ being out all the time for so long than it is that JJ hid her feelings for Reid for so long. This would be a case of Will realizing that perhaps this arrangement he thought could work isn't actually working and now he's bringing that up.

Now, I'm not sure I want the Will/JJ relationship to crash and burn. We've already done that with Hotch. I would much rather prefer a storyline where you see the two of them struggle to maintain the relationship but eventually work things out. That would be a refreshing change of pace from the regular version of this storyline in Hollywood.

That said, JJ is a bit of an outlier as a TV cop. Very few of them tend to be married, since generally shows usually have one woman among the cast and writers love making that woman "the love interest" among the men (anywhere in the cast) that are single. So even if JJ/Will are on the outs because of JJ's workload, it might not be such a horrible story choice since Hollywood hardly explores the "marriage breakup" storyline they like to use in cop shows from the female perspective.

10 hours ago, rtms77 said:

The story quality went down the drain when Erica Messing took over. In stead of slowly giving us clues about the unsub and why of the crime, the writers just blurt it out .

This is very true, and more about what I tried to get at earlier. Erica Messer's writing generally lacks a purpose- CM episodes and story choices are filled with "moments" where the writers think "wouldn't this be cool?" without thinking if it makes sense for the story they are trying to tell. In the earlier days, the writing was much more focused, as, no matter how ridiculous it got, at the very least what happened more or less fit with the story.

Now it seems like "anything goes" and that's where the wheels have fallen off.

[Bookish Jen]

I don't need to watch CME. All over your recaps, opinions, and thoughts are going to be much more entertaining.

[StarBrand]

Well, I liked it. To those who did not...I can understand peeking in for the first couple of episodes, seeing what's there, and not liking it, but if one keeps watching and still complains, I have no sympathy. I for one, will keep watching.

[catherinejane]

think i commented on the paramount thread but glad we are back to episode threads :)

I enjoyed it being back. i was SHOCKED when Rossi swore but got over it :) And prentiss comment about everyone getting laid was funny. Its a bit more adult (and with stuff like good Fight and HBO type shows, swearing is fairly common, even occasionally in any actual work enviroment these days)

[Annber03]

Yeah, I like how they handle the swearing on this show. It's not every other word, which is realistic for these characters, as I don't see them as the sort to do that, but it's still a thing they do, which makes total sense, because this sort of job is one where it's expected that people would swear from time to time for one reason or another. If one's pissed off at annoying bureaucrats, dealing with horrific cases, interviewing awful criminals who probably aren't going to be as clean with their own language, etc., who wouldn't let a few f-bombs or whatnot fly every now and again as a result? 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Annber03

[millennium]

It's not as mind-numbingly formulaic as the original run.   I bailed out long ago -- like Jennifer Love Hewitt long ago -- only came back to see if they had tweaked the show at all.  I find it more watchable now.   I was surprised and amused to see an older Eric Delko on the team.   

The bean-counting bureaucrat boss is such a cartoon character he rips me out of the story every time he's on the screen.  I'd prefer Emily in the field rather than office-bound. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by millennium

[Retired at last]

8 hours ago, millennium said:

The bean-counting bureaucrat boss is such a cartoon character he rips me out of the story every time he's on the screen.  I'd prefer Emily in the field rather than office-bound. 

EXACTLY!

[idiotwaltz]

I am housebound with Covid (finally succumbed after almost 3 years) and decided to watch the first episode on Disney+. Surprisingly, I didn’t hate it. I always say CM is my comfort TV and found it very soothing to hear our characters’ voices profiling the UNSUB. 
 

My main complaint is the lighting of this show. It’s so dark I can barely see anything on my screen. Maybe it’s my TV. I’m on the second episode now and I have no idea what I’m watching. 
 

Are teenage girls still named Jessie, Chrissy and Katelyn these days? I would’ve thought they come from the generation of Olivia’s, Ava’s, and Isabella’s. Meanwhile all of the baby girls I know who were born in the last 2 years are named Isla/Ayla. 
 

 

[mythoughtis]

Was there really a reason to break the team up and then have  another bureaucrat trying to destroy the team just because?   
Did the team  all have to look  they were starving and suffering from depression? Only  Luke and Penelope appeared normal.   

l happen to love Will and I really don’t want him and JJ to have marital issues.   I was never a fan of the supposed JJ Spencer feelings. 

Did Penelope win the lottery after she left the team?   She spent all her time doing nothing except  socialize.   

Edited February 21, 2023 by mythoughtis

[threebluestars]

So I just started watching and ... it really is a bit too dark for me, vibe-wise, which is saying something. Reid missing makes a huge impact on the team, but he was missing from a lot of episodes in the final seasons of the original run, but it didn't seem as glaring as it does here. Not sure why.