Tech and Ethics: Boybots, Fake Limbs, and Drone Warfare

[Actionmage]

We seem to be having very cool, lively discussions of why some things are being allowed, why characters are acting certain ways about differing tech and whether some characters have an ethical leg (bionic or not) to stand on when it comes to certain situations.

 

This is where we can talk about everything shown to date and to come.

 

Some subjects:

 

Why is John Woods so upset that Ethan isn't learning exactly like a human, when Ethan isn't?

 

Why should the alien(s) be happy with Earth/Yatsumoto / Claypool for stealing resources from their planet?

 

Why is Odin so anti-tech, but taking his anger out on Ethan, who is outwardly a six-to-eight year old child?

 

I'm sure there is probably more that I am missing, so jump on in!

[Latverian Diplomat]

A couple of points I touched on in the latest episode, but can expand on here.

 

They have some sort of anti-gravity technology in Ethan's hovering toys, but they don't use it in vehicles (including spaceships). Some tech doesn't scale, so that's OK, though it doesn't seem to be energy intensive, and it's hard to believe that we could have huge space stations and space mining in 20-30 years while still relying on chemical rockets. This seems to be driven by visuals (floating toys look cool, but spaceships without big, glowing rocket engines don't) and budget (hovering cars or bikes are expensive special effects). 

 

ETA: One person suggested magnets as a possible explanation (possibly pushing against the Earth's magnetic field). It takes a very strong magnetic field to do this, but one can do levitation tricks with magnets. It helps to have superconductors,

Levitating superconductor

or extremely strong magnetic fields

Levitating frog

in both these cases, the Earth's magnetic field plays no role, because it's relatively weak.

 

The drone that injured Odin should have been autonomous, some sort of limited AI. That would motivate his resentment/fear of Ethan much better than a general techno-phobia because of a drone that sounds like ones we use today. This seems like just a misstep by the writers.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Latverian Diplomat

[Actionmage]

Would the restrictions that John was planning on placing on Ethan the equivalent of an organic human's lobotomy? I feel it would be.

 

Both procedures would be used to bring the subjects more into line with human "norms", and probably against both subject's will. ( While I am sure that there were some folks who consented to the procedure of their own choice,  I feel sure that there are far more cases of involuntary procedures.) There was even a scene of John standing over Ethan, his child, and staring at his sleeping form- after trying to remote control program in the restrictions. It was shot creepily and on Ethan's level in bed, John's shadow falling across him. How is that supposed to make John look like he is doing something that is right?

 

Another situation that may be just me: the search party for Ethan. In that circumstance, I do get the local sheriff's refusal to risk humans to find a childbot. Yet, what was ignored was that a pregnant woman was also out in that storm looking for the childbot. Whether you find the childbot or not, shouldn't you look for the potentially in distress pregnant woman?  Granted, John hauled off and punched the sheriff, which didn't help matters, but he said nothing about Molly at Molly's dad's cabin. Should the sheriff  continue the search since Molly was seemingly lost as well? ( I haven't seen the immediate episode following Episode 4, so I don't know the timeline from black op kidnap to return to family.)

[jhlipton]

Would the restrictions that John was planning on placing on Ethan the equivalent of an organic human's lobotomy? I feel it would be.

 

I don't think that John wanted to go as far as a lobotomy -- he just wanted to slow Ethan down. (With all the reds and yellows in the display by the bed, it looked like Ethan was burning up. All that extra processing may be coming at a cost.)

[sjohnson]

A governor on an engine puts a limit on the speed with which it can turn over. A lobotomy breaks connections that were there before. I don't think there's a genuine comparison. John looming over Ethan I suspect was meant as dramatic irony, since Ethan's burgeoning giant intellects threatens to loom over all humanity.

[random chance]

I would have expected technology to have advanced enough that nobody can steal a bike, because it locks its wheels and calls your high-tech phone and shouts for help, or something. I mean come on! Bike-stealing should not be a problem in a world with human-like robots!

 

Why should the alien(s) be happy with Earth/Yatsumoto / Claypool for stealing resources from their planet?

That's a good question - what are they getting in return, women to impregnate or something dire like that?

Edited August 23, 2014 by random chance

[jhlipton]

MARS (or somewhere very far away) NEEDS WOMEN!!!

[random chance]

I've never watched that.  I ought to do that sometime. 

 

I was thinking today how much better a robot pet would be than a robot kid.  Like they could be training pets for kids, so that no real pets were harmed while kids learned things like, do not kick the pet.  Or pets for elderly people who wanted companionship but couldn't really cope with the responsibility of a real pet.  Any situation that you would not want to put a real pet into, basically. 

[Latverian Diplomat]

 Or pets for elderly people who wanted companionship but couldn't really cope with the responsibility of a real pet.  

A Japanese company came up with a robot baby seal for use in nursing homes. IIRC, the baby seal was chosen because they couldn't simulate familiar pets like cats and dogs well enough, but baby seals are a winning combination of cute and unfamiliar, so the illusion is more compelling.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paro_(robot)

[random chance]

Well that is just too cool, thanks for the link!  That was a clever way to get around any uncanny valley problems, too.  Next they should make Tribbles for elderly people who are also sci-fi fiends. 

[jah1986]

Quick question re Ethan, is he programmed to grow? He looked exactly the same before Molly went on her mission and when she came back. How is he programmed to grow and go through puberty etc. or will his consciousness be transferred to another body?

[ottoDbusdriver]

I was disappointed by the shitty robot at the local police station -- what the hell was that ?  And then there was the amped up Roomba at Yasumoto's offices complete with dustmop.  They both just seemed so lame since we have better robots than both of those --- now.

 

The Buckminster Fuller Campground seemed odd and out of place, especially when the main campground cabin was a regular old log cabin. It was almost like someone in production decided to futurize the campground because ... you know .....  it's the near future, and then decorate the 'cabins' with Ikea furniture.

Edited August 28, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[HalcyonDays]

I was disappointed by the shitty robot at the local police station -- what the hell was that ?  And then there was the amped up Roomba at Yasumoto's offices complete with dustmop.  They both just seemed so lame since we have better robots than both of those --- now.

 

The Buckminster Fuller Campground seemed odd and out of place, especially when the main campground cabin was a regular old log cabin. It was almost like someone in production decided to futurize the campground because ... you know .....  it's the near future, and then decorate the 'cabins' with Ikea furniture.

 

The robot in the cop shop was strange and out of place. You'd figure in the future the technology would allow for more properly sized robots. I mean, this is a time where artificial limbs meld seemlessly with organic material (i.e. the humans). It looked very 1960's for some reason. Especially when they smashed it - I was like, oh look, an old motherboard. Maybe the station's budget is that low that they have to resort to antiquated robots??

 

The campsite too - the front desk lady even said something that indicated that Sparks would have to use an outhouse or something. Those (cheap looking) globes don't have a working toilet inside? Really?

 

That said, I do like the mix of old and new, but the camp and robot were glaringly out of place.

 

Quick question re Ethan, is he programmed to grow? He looked exactly the same before Molly went on her mission and when she came back. How is he programmed to grow and go through puberty etc. or will his consciousness be transferred to another body?

 

In one of the first episodes, they showed Julie or the other guy working on limbs for Ethan in the lab. I took that to mean that for Ethan to "grow", they would have to replace his physical body with one that is larger/more grown up.

[Actionmage]

I was disappointed by the shitty robot at the local police station -- what the hell was that ?

I took it that things will be the same even in the future: BFE cop shops, with not a lot of cash, will be using out-of-date gear.

 

And then there was the amped up Roomba at Yasumoto's offices complete with dustmop.

With Ms. Dodds as a seemingly permanent "guest", I'd be willing to bet she makes the household decisions, or argues that it's cheaper to use the older-but-serviceable models. If she's down with harming Ethan, why would she be all about cutting-edge house 'bots?

 

As for the campground, I thought it was nice that there was a choice for how "rough" your "roughing it" could be. The inside of the Bucky tents reminded me of this place: http://elcosmico.com/stay/shelter/yurt . I haven't been there, but I want to go.  I actually liked Esther's Bucky tents. Maybe Ester had a bath and shower bathroom for guests, as opposed to wooden or current-style outhouses?

[Latverian Diplomat]

In one of the first episodes, they showed Julie or the other guy working on limbs for Ethan in the lab. I took that to mean that for Ethan to "grow", they would have to replace his physical body with one that is larger/more grown up.

Future Ethan: "Sorry I can't go to the mall and hang out with you on Saturday. My dad scheduled me for stupid puberty this weekend!"

Edited August 29, 2014 by Latverian Diplomat

[Actionmage]

Or "C'mon, Dad! Prom's this weekend; I need my 17 year old body by Thursday, tops!"

[random chance]

I wonder if they'd inflict cramps on the girl robots. How about acne? Head colds? I suppose it would be good for empathy, but do you really want a PMSing robot that can hurl you to the moon if it's pissed?

[jhlipton]

Does Ethan "grow" -- Lucy looks more like a baby, so presumably Ethan did too.  As he ge3ts older, he's getting a bigger body -- they showed him a new arm.  So what happens to Ethan's "corpse"?  Do they recycle?  Bury?  Use it for the next kid?

I wonder if they'd inflict cramps on the girl robots. How about acne? Head colds? I suppose it would be good for empathy, but do you really want a PMSing robot that can hurl you to the moon if it's pissed?

 

Ethan's abilities and disabilities are as wildly inconsistant as the rest of this show.  He's supposed to be like other kids his age, but he's super-smart, he doesn't get any diseases (even m ild ones are part of development).  How strong is her?  He should be super-strong, being bionic and all, but we've never seen that.  So many things Ms Dodd figured out that the writers haven 't!

[random chance]

If he's super-strong (and can't get sick and has a computer smart brain), the only childlike human thing about him is his appearance. So now that you mention it, I have got to side with the people who don't think he's a great idea.

[JBody]

I wouldn't disparage the writers just yet. After all, they wrote Ms. Dodd's lines. They have shown that John hasn't reckoned with all the implications of his creation and they are showing him grappling with some of the dark realities now, ref. Frankenstein. At this point I'm concerned that it won't have a satisfying ending but I suppose that hinges on whether there is a second season.

[sjohnson]

Ethan wasn't supposed to be that smart, hence the idea of a governor. And he's not that strong because kids aren't. Most kids have a few minor illnesses but I'm not so sure that the important thing is that Ethan can feel pain, physical and emotional, which I gather he can.

[jhlipton]

[T]he important thing is that Ethan can feel pain, physical and emotional, which I gather he can.

 

He doesn't seem to have felt heat -- at least not in the way a human would. Have we seen him register physical pain?

[Latverian Diplomat]

Does Ethan "grow" -- Lucy looks more like a baby, so presumably Ethan did too.  As he ge3ts older, he's getting a bigger body -- they showed him a new arm.  So what happens to Ethan's "corpse"?  Do they recycle?  Bury?  Use it for the next kid?

 

Hmm, I guess even in the future, hand-me-downs will be a source of friction between parents and children. "I don't care if all the 'cool kids' have six fingers now, you will install your sister's perfectly good age-8 five-fingered hands and you will like it!"

[Actionmage]

Have we seen him register physical pain?

I think we have. When the bully shoved Ethan into the mud puddle, there was a verbal reaction to hitting the ground. There was also a kind of marveling look at his hand after feeling his head/forehead. It seemed like Ethan was unfamiliar with the sensation of what had happened to his body. Just because he didn't wail or sniffle doesn't mean Ethan didn't feel pain on impact.

 

There was also the fight John broke up at Molly's homecoming shindig. I don't remember if Ethan or the other little boy had really punched or hit each other. I do remember John reminding Ethan about how Ethan couldn't act like the other kids, especially in that way because he was stronger and could hurt the other kids. I remember rolling my eyes and thinking 'Good call, Pa Kent'- I flashed back to Man of Steel and the weird and off-putting way Johnathan Kent was written. (For a man who wanted a human-like child but robotic, he sure didn't think much outside of the technical build, did he?)

[jhlipton]

So, like I thought, wildly inconsistent!  [Eyes roll]

[crowsworks]

I started this show wondering if the spacebaby - spaby is from a future human. They are trying to reproduce as the human race was wiped out by the AI's. Starting with little Ethan...dundunduhhhh.

[carryanation]

I think the show is pretty consistently portraying mistrust and rejection of tech as a bad thing, what with hypocritical terrorist Odin and how Marcus’ insistence on not using the auto-pilot in his car gets himself and his son killed. It’s a nice change from what usually comes out of Hollywood.

 

Re: Robot children. I think it makes since for Ethan to be a child because despite his intellect he’s still morally/socially a child and must be taught right and wrong and basic socialization skills, just as you would a child.

Edited September 12, 2014 by carryanation

[Enero]

Re: Robot children. I think it makes since for Ethan to be a child because despite his intellect he’s still morally/socially a child and must be taught right and wrong and basic socialization skills, just as you would a child.

 

So true. And never was this more apparent than in last night's episode. Only a naive child would trust so implicitly an adult he/she have only known for a day or two, trusting them to the point that they believe their parents would destroy them, and wouldn't question why this stranger is so concerned for their well being that they would give them a special "phone" to call him for help, if they fear their parents will start to hurt them.

 

For Ethan to be so advanced and smart, he has the innocence of a child and beyond that has no intuitive sense about people as evidence by his inability to see that the kids in the park who were torturing the robot were bad news and even that a grown man, a stranger changing his battery cell was inappropriate.  Though the latter does border a bit on the lack of parental instruction about being careful of strangers.

[shapeshifter]

I started this show wondering if the spacebaby - spaby is from a future human. They are trying to reproduce as the human race was wiped out by the AI's. Starting with little Ethan...dundunduhhhh.

I suppose that could still be the case. If not, how 'bout we right a pilot for that story?

[Actionmage]

Are we supposed to buy that the professionals in Restwell : a) can't tell a reasonable anger response from a true "danger to hirself and others", b) aren't in on the false imprisonment going on, or c) both?  Because if the Restwell folks really believed Molly was a danger, no matter how important JD's string-puller was, I wouldn't think that Molly'd  be allowed to leave with JD, much less unsupervised.   If the military, covering up the alien info side of things, wanted to ensure that Molly stay out of sight and away from all media (except VR experiences), then no one would be able to say her name twice, much less speak to her. Surely not allowing unsupervised time with a "renegade" law enforcer.   

 

Then I remember that conspiracies on TV tend to be Byzantine Jenga structures, and so while the one hand is putting out Alien fires, the other is unwittingly helping a reliable wild card.

 

I also am curious about Julie's professional reputation, as well as her actual office reputation. Do they diverge, and if so, how?  It had to be an open secret how Julie felt about Ethan and "John Woods". Then to have the government come in and takeover, Julie put in charge of a project 180 degrees  ethically from "John's" stance, and "John's" unfortunate interaction shortly after a blow-up with her?  I would be giving her side-eye during S1 anyway, but after "John" getting booted? Moreso.

 

added:

 

I also have to wonder where Julie'shead is at, in re: the Humanechs.  "John's" point was to be able to help families that wanted children but couldn't, iirc. What Julie is overseeing, as it were, is weaponized humanoids. If all you want are, essentially, mindless drones that can target and pull triggers, then why bother with human-shaped weapons? Why not make specialized/ shaped weapons to do what you are wanting?  "John's" big counter to Julie was that his way of "growing"/raising the Humanechs was so that they could make independent decisions based on their individual morality, if I understood it correctly. 

 

If you don't want questioning humanoids, why not go with some obviously un-human robots? ( I know-- so Grace Gummer gets a paycheck, but still.) 

 

If you want them to be spies, then having the ability to make quick decisions and evaluations, with a human context, then why not let them "grow" naturally. ( Again, I think it was stated; the urgent need to kill every alien that they meet.) 

 

If you just want something that is stronger than the aliens, you don't have to have them human-shaped, especially as the aliens took humanoid form to communicate with us. ( I don't believe their native form was shown last season?)

 

edited: Mamie and Grace are similar, but not the same.

edited 2: The door/window to "John's" lab actually had the name spelled out. Yay!

Edited July 7, 2015 by Actionmage

[Actionmage]

I know I am over Julie and her moral slide, but :

 

What I am unhappy about, re: Humanechs, is that a project to help civilians in various ways is now 100% under Government control and being told to get weaponized or else. 

 

I may have to go back and watch S1, but I don't remember "John" being backed by Government and Military folks. In fact, that was why Renee Walker was even there- "John" was giving a demo of Ethan to attract more cash.  So if the Congressmen and Generals who were demanding results, as per HB's character last night ( Ep. 3), they are pretty impatient. It's been a year or less since they signed on.

 

As for Julie's "brilliant" decision to totally wipe out any memory of Ethan's life with Molly? Why not leave the less traumatic ones and just, I don't know, win the kid over? Ohhhh, that's right- you have no time in your life or ego for a child! Ethan isn't a better type of puppy. He is an AI that is more Pinnocchio than  Velveteen Rabbit, but no one knows because there is too much other dramaz raging around him. 

 

I don't think Julie was ethical because, while I believe she was 1) genuinely concerned for Ethan and 2) genuinely not wanting an Ethanbomb to explode, there was a kinder way to mod. Save the troubling stuff for Ethan to access later, but leave the rest. There are memories all us meatsacks want to forget, but we can't. That makes us who we are, for good and ill. Ethan has a demonstrable emotional life; to take away what could make him more empathetic to some and understanding to others as he ages, to me, is unconscionable.

[Latverian Diplomat]

Just a note about cybersecurity in the future:

 

Richter's friend (played delightfully by Richard T. Jones) can access phone records from months ago with little trouble. He can even determine that the secret agency number is in fact a secret agency number, and without tripping any alarms. Admittedly, this is consistent with how TV presents current hacking. 

 

And of course, Ethan and Lucy can hack pretty much anything, including parts of the their own systems (like their GPS) that they just shouldn't have access too.

 

So we have multiple space stations and robots and man made viruses and hover toys in the future, but we still can't design and program secure systems. 

[wayne67]

So we have multiple space stations and robots and man made viruses and hover toys in the future, but we still can't design and program secure systems. 

 

Isn't that always the case ? The more secure we make our defences the more inventive attackers have to become. Isn't that cyber evolution?

 

Of course sometimes the easiest way to hack a complex system is to manipulate the weakest component which is usually the human participant. For instance JD buying dinner for someone so they'll provide him sensitive information about an investigation. Lucy manipulating Charlie. HomSec manipulating Julie. Army guy seducing Julie so he could get access to the Humanics lab. etc etc

Edited July 31, 2015 by wayne67

[Actionmage]

In the months between leaving the family that picked Adu up from the bridge to Wednesday's episodes, his people have figured out how to not explode the mother's body and kill her.

 

As I said above, that's a nice first step. It would have been better to just not rape women in order to procreate with a fearful neighboring planet. Especially since it seems they either didn't know the women would die or they didn't care. I have a little more on that, but there's another thread for that.

 

I brought this over from the Episode thread ( Eps. 6/7).

 

After I wrote that I realized that the hybrids, as soon as they could walk, left their human mother.  Did the aliens never think that humans grow attached to their children? Did they care?

 

I get that when you are faced with extinction, you try to get more of your people made. I would hope for less...psychological games. It was, in ways, better that the world's governments were by-passed because these aliens could die out while a debate drags on. Still, not telling your co-progenitors what's up, in clear language that they can understand and approve or not, is not the answer either. (You know there are folks who would be non-unstable folks who would be up for the experience.)

 

Strangely I have visions of Lucy and Adu brokering a peace and Lucy becoming the new Molly, and not just because " John Woods" really loved his wife.

[wayne67]

I brought this over from the Episode thread ( Eps. 6/7).

 

After I wrote that I realized that the hybrids, as soon as they could walk, left their human mother.  Did the aliens never think that humans grow attached to their children? Did they care?

 

I get that when you are faced with extinction, you try to get more of your people made. I would hope for less...psychological games. It was, in ways, better that the world's governments were by-passed because these aliens could die out while a debate drags on. Still, not telling your co-progenitors what's up, in clear language that they can understand and approve or not, is not the answer either. (You know there are folks who would be non-unstable folks who would be up for the experience.)

 

Strangely I have visions of Lucy and Adu brokering a peace and Lucy becoming the new Molly, and not just because " John Woods" really loved his wife.

 

It's hard to tell what the Hybrids thought once they left their mothers. Perhaps they didn't do it out of callousness but out of necessity. After all they are being hunted by the local government and based on Adu's experience of being forcibly extracted out of Molly, kept at a black site against his will and hunted by drones and armed soldiers maybe they don't think it's a safe place to have their mothers about.

 

Perhaps in a couple of weeks they'd call the mothers to them once their alien hybrid powers come into play and they can join the collective.

 

The only human mothers that have survived the Alien process haven't been treated very well. Molly was sent to an insane asylum and Illegal Immigrant is being experimented on by the humans.

 

We don't know that the Hybrids are using their telepathy to have sex with women. From what we've seen of Adu, I doubt he needs alien telepathy to get some action in a nightclub.

 

That said it's weird to expect Alien Hybrids that are less than a year old to be completely up to date with the complexities of informed consent for human alien sex when a lot of humans can't figure out how that works without signing waivers before every sexual encounter. I'd imagine it's hard to keep a low profile when you're telling every woman you meet "I'm an alien half breed who needs to find women to have sex with to continue my species". It's a pick up line that would get you noticed by the government hunting you and thought of as crazy endangering the future of your endangered species.

 

If they weren't being hunted by the government they could probably post an ad stating their particulars on the internet and get willing volunteers for continuing the telepathic alien line. I'm sure there are some people out there who wouldn't mind some Wolverine healing plus telepathy and telekinesis in exchange for giving birth to one of the Hybrids.

 

It's actually in the best interests of the Aliens to keep the mothers alive and healthy to breed with repeatedly once they incorporate the alien DNA. They might care to draw less attention to the mother so they can go through alien puberty without being involved in the government man hunt.

 

Perhaps when they find out that the mothers are being killed by an overzealous government they'll change their strategy again. The Hybrids were accidentally killing their mothers out of ignorance. The Government is endangering their lives out of fear. That virus could kill every woman that has had contact with the aliens.

[Actionmage]

After all they are being hunted by the local government

 

The aliens could have, as children, just stayed blended into the human population and stayed with their mothers. Yes, the government might still be watching the children of the very unusual pregnancies, but once the mothers stopped dying, and after Adu knows they are certainly being hunted, why not have the ones not at the camp try to blend into their mothers' families?  Because when armed soldiers start going house-to-house to look for lied-about-to-Congress aliens/ "terrorists", The Public will get upset. Weird pregnancies do not make human terrorists in the general public's mind. If the Guv'mint starts sending armed robots into Future American houses? That will not sit well either.

 

 As for moms joining the collective? There were plenty old enough who didn't seem overly concerned about the female body that they grew in. Adu was sorry for the deaths, but like any group, they aren't a monolith. Some may care, like Adu seems to, while there are probably some who could care less about the means to an end, which is how the women who bore the hybrids have been treated, not just by the aliens, but by the story itself. 

 

Nothing has been said about poor dead Katie; she was tossed like S1 detritus. Despite this sounding super-cold, Molly could have examined Katie's body to compare contrast their pregnancies and/ or if there was a way to reverse the current change Molly is experiencing.  We know nothing about Mai Fong except her legal status and that she is being studied like a freaking guinea pig. We suspect that JD's daughter, with a wildish past, is possibly carrying a hybrid, but we barely know anything about her, other than her name (Kelsey/Kelcie?) The women who have paid the unknown and terrifying price for these aliens are less than a compilation of stats to be read off and frowned over. I'm not asking for whole episodes devoted to each one, but the way their deaths are just glossed over as a bump in Molly and JD's quest to look hot in denim and stop Molly's extended hybrid family from being killed in one swoop forgets that Molly isn't the only human that has been affected in the deaths and births. Like the gal from Episode 2 who was trying to pass the alien baby as her husband's kid.

 

That said it's weird to expect Alien Hybrids that are less than a year old to be completely up to date with the complexities of informed consent for human alien sex

 

Yet with Lucy, who appeared to be setting a honey trap for  Charlie- complete with video, who is also "less than a year" is treated as a mental adult.

 

It's actually in the best interests of the Aliens to keep the mothers alive and healthy to breed with repeatedly once they incorporate the alien DNA.

 

I have no coherent response currently. Other than, I don't believe they are the in-bred family from the X-Files episode "Home."

 

They might care to draw less attention to the mother so they can go through alien puberty without being involved in the government man hunt.

 

Then the aliens need to learn how to slow down their gestation period or do something nice for the women that bear their race away from extinction.

 

The Government is endangering their lives out of fear. That virus could kill every woman that has had contact with the aliens.

 

1) Molly spent a chunk of the last episodes trying to explain that to Adu and his pig-headed "security" chief. Between the civilian lock-down and the remote location of Hybrid HQ, they couldn't leave without for certain giving away their only hiding spot.

2) You have heard Toby? The man who sent armed drones to blow up a civilian bar, filled with civilians, in a city block- also filled with civilians- in order to attempt to kill Adu, with Molly as gravy as she was starting to irritate Toby then. He doesn't care about civilian casualties as long as he can think up a believable cover. There is fear there, but there is more anger (at the loss of his men, when he should know better due to all the S1 evidence he is no doubt suppressing) and irritation ( toward Molly, who is so actively rebuffing  him that you could almost make an argument that the attacks on the hybrids are personally motivated by Molly not wanting to sex him.)

3) No one is showing any worry over the women that could die, except Molly and nominally JD.  I truly believe that Toby and the other suits/military aren't giving a flying fig about them either. Granted, Molly has a very personal reason to be scared. JD has to be wondering if his potential grandbaby may be adversely affecting his daughter, plus the original case he caught and the woman Molly scared were visceral examples that JD can remember.  Everyone else is on the Humanechs end of the spectrum and until Lucy tried to seduce Charlie, Humanechs sexuality wasn't even discussed as a Thing to Talk About with Lucy, even with her more adult body. (Julie has a hard enough time being honest and direct with herself, why should she be the one to have The Talk with Lucy, instead of a licensed ob/gyn? No, we don't have to see that, but a scene of Lucy entering the lab with a holo-pamphlet or somesuch thing would get us more believably to Lucy knowing how to sex up Charlie. Unless my hunch that Julie was the base for Lucy's programming is correct. Then the sekret sexay makes more sense.)

[wayne67]

The aliens could have, as children, just stayed blended into the human population and stayed with their mothers. Yes, the government might still be watching the children of the very unusual pregnancies, but once the mothers stopped dying, and after Adu knows they are certainly being hunted, why not have the ones not at the camp try to blend into their mothers' families?  Because when armed soldiers start going house-to-house to look for lied-about-to-Congress aliens/ "terrorists", The Public will get upset. Weird pregnancies do not make human terrorists in the general public's mind. If the Guv'mint starts sending armed robots into Future American houses? That will not sit well either.

 

We don't know how much control they have over their bodies development but I'd imagine if any of those women had families or friends or anyone who visited they'd might notice and report the kids growing at an exponential rate as strange to the authorities. 

 

 

They might care to draw less attention to the mother so they can go through alien puberty without being involved in the government man hunt.    

 

Then the aliens need to learn how to slow down their gestation period or do something nice for the women that bear their race away from extinction.

 

The surviving mothers end up with telepathy and telekinesis and rapid healing. You don't think that's a bonus ? I'd love me some telepathy, telekinesis and rapid healing along with increased intelligence. Sadly I'm not a female in this world so I don't get the option.

 

I'm not sure what they're telling the Public about the mothers they're disappearing. Probably that they died of the fake virus.

 

It's actually in the best interests of the Aliens to keep the mothers alive and healthy to breed with repeatedly once they incorporate the alien DNA.

    

I have no coherent response currently. Other than, I don't believe they are the in-bred family from the X-Files episode "Home."

 

I meant that they could have ten human women to bear their offspring, then wait a few more weeks for them to develop Molly Syndrome (integration of alien Dna) to have more children with. It might allay some of the concerns of the government that the Aliens are going to dilute the human genome if they keep their breeding to a low number of human females in a limited area.

 

They'd need about 1000 offspring to reset their race. Then instead of the government making an enemy of a telepathic race they could just relocate them somewhere else. Save themselves an entire war but I guess peaceful relations with another species is wanted.

 

 

Yet with Lucy, who appeared to be setting a honey trap for  Charlie- complete with video, who is also "less than a year" is treated as a mental adult.

 

Charlie didn't see her as an adult, part of the reason he declined the option of robot human sex.

As for the military I don't think they see her as an adult, more as a talking tool to be used to take care of their current problems with the aliens. If they thought of her as a sentient adult I doubt they'd be so blase as to send her off to war.

 

Then there is her implanted memories which may substitute for her lack of real life experiences. She may have access to internet to make up for lack of knowledge in some areas, perhaps porn made her think sex was a good idea.

 

Adu only has less than a year of real life experience to draw upon.

[wayne67]

stupid double post.

Edited August 8, 2015 by wayne67

[shapeshifter]

Charlie didn't see her as an adult, part of the reason he declined the option of robot human sex.

I wondered about that while watching that scene. Although Kiersey Clemons is now 22 and would have been at least 21 when this season was shot, I had been under the impression that she was supposed to be a teenage robot. As others have mentioned, her willfulness and testing of authority are very typical teen behaviors. The dress bit was too; it was almost the same scene shown on The Good Wife with teenage Grace showing up in a sexy dress at a high power political function.

So, are we supposed to see her advances on Charlie as equivalent to a teen girl coming on to a high school teacher? Or did the writer of that scene not read or see the previous episodes and just figure she was an adult?

The actor who plays Charlie is 32 (ten years older) but I'm not sure that he's supposed to be quite that old.

Separate issue:

Recently during the custody meeting, Julie mentioned in passing that she had designed her own prosthetic legs and used the same tech in designing Ethan, which gave her a special understanding and empathy for the way he works.

Was that the first time this season we have been reminded of Julie's protheses?

Is that because they didn't want us to feel sympathy for her until this point? It seems like they are lacking an advisor for people with disabilities.

[wayne67]

I wondered about that while watching that scene. Although Kiersey Clemons is now 22 and would have been at least 21 when this season was shot, I had been under the impression that she was supposed to be a teenage robot. As others have mentioned, her willfulness and testing of authority are very typical teen behaviors. The dress bit was too; it was almost the same scene shown on The Good Wife with teenage Grace showing up in a sexy dress at a high power political function.

So, are we supposed to see her advances on Charlie as equivalent to a teen girl coming on to a high school teacher? Or did the writer of that scene not read or see the previous episodes and just figure she was an adult?

The actor who plays Charlie is 32 (ten years older) but I'm not sure that he's supposed to be quite that old.

Separate issue:

Recently during the custody meeting, Julie mentioned in passing that she had designed her own prosthetic legs and used the same tech in designing Ethan, which gave her a special understanding and empathy for the way he works.

Was that the first time this season we have been reminded of Julie's protheses?

Is that because they didn't want us to feel sympathy for her until this point? It seems like they are lacking an advisor for people with disabilities.

 

I assumed that Lucy was given an 'adult body' and an AI based on Ethan's source code of a precocious 10/112 year old and implanted memories of combat strategies which ended up with a roughly 16/17 year old adolescent personality that is testing boundaries and sexuality and reading The Prince as pre bedtime/charging pod reading material. I'm not sure if the Government cares if Lucy's AI is mature enough to fight a war, they just want the war over. John Woods was supposed to be the genius behind the program and his successors are still following his advice post grave so maybe they're not sure how to design robot AI's that mimic mature adult personalities yet.

 

I think of Lucy trying to hook up with Charlie more like hitting on your new stepfather to cause havoc. Julie being the mother, John the father and Charlie his best friend who is taking his place. I'm not sure if Lucy is sexually attracted to Charlie or merely using sex to undermine Julie or to better manipulate Charlie so that she can have more sibling clones.

 

I am confused about why they need the Humanics when they apparently have a virus to wipe the Alien Hybrids out. Unless that was a lie ?

 

As for Julie's 'disability', it probably has been the first time it's been mentioned this season as in this robo future it doesn't seem like it's a huge part of her life, more of an awkward inconvenience. If she was in a wheelchair, I still wouldn't have much sympathy for her as most of her problems are caused by her own stupidity. 

 

I am mildly curious as to how/why she has no legs but I don't really care about the character so it doesn't really matter.

Edited August 9, 2015 by wayne67

[jhlipton]

I am confused about why they need the Humanics when they apparently have a virus to wipe the Alien Hybrids out. Unless that was a lie ?

 

Two reasons:

1) The robo-army and the virus-hunt were two separate projects, neither of which knew about the other.  Only Toby and his ex seemed to know about the 2.

 

2) The army was built long before Molly got the first step in figuring out the alien DNA, much less the virus.  The army was built to create soldiers for whatever enemies TPTB wanted to use them against.

[wayne67]

Two reasons:

1) The robo-army and the virus-hunt were two separate projects, neither of which knew about the other.  Only Toby and his ex seemed to know about the 2.

 

2) The army was built long before Molly got the first step in figuring out the alien DNA, much less the virus.  The army was built to create soldiers for whatever enemies TPTB wanted to use them against.

 

I understand why they built the Humanichs army but if they already know where most of the Hybrids are staying why bother sending in the prototype Humanichs that haven't been adequately smoke tested to find out troop numbers, compound layout and defenses when you can just drop a cannister of nerve gas or virus bomb into their midst.

 

Why send in infantry when you can just bomb the compound?

 

Not that it matters I suppose, it's a tv show and it's probably just an excuse to use their new toys though one would expect them to drop the genocide gas and have the Humanichs kill the survivors/stragglers.

Edited August 9, 2015 by wayne67

[jhlipton]

Not that it matters I suppose, it's a tv show and it's probably just an excuse to use their new toys though one would expect them to drop the genocide gas and have the Humanichs kill the survivors/stragglers.

 

Any decent campaign does aerial bombardment then sends in the infantry, but how many shows do even halfway decent tactics?

[wayne67]

Any decent campaign does aerial bombardment then sends in the infantry, but how many shows do even halfway decent tactics?

 

Very few shows. Firefly and Farscape had some entertaining battle strategies. This show isn't great at logic. For instance Molly should have been having regular blood tests and physicals in that nut house, which should have noticed the irregularities in her blood earlier.

 

The humanichs aren't just infantry, they're the robot equivalent of SEALS, expensive to train and source I'd imagine. Or at least I expect state of the art prosthetic limbs to cost a fortune considering Odin's lame bio limbs. Not to mention the expense of fast tracking all the coding necessary for their software/training.

 

I wonder how they tested the virus for effectiveness anyway. Did they use the freshly delivered hybrid babies as test experiments ? Did they just run simulations using their computers ? Did they just do the tv thing and introduce the 'virus' onto a slide with Hybrid blood on it.

 

I wonder if it'll even be effective, these Hybrids seem quite capable of altering themselves and their environment to hide and survive.