S20.E22: David Duchovny; Matt Taibbi; Lis Smith

[tessaray]

Air Date: August 5, 2022

Guests include David Duchovny, Matt Taibbi, and Lis Smith

[aghst]

Of course Bill had to complain about a Dave Chapelle show being canceled, citing it as an instance of Democrats being against free speech.  They don’t exactly say how or who got the show canceled.

He also rejects the distinction between punching up vs. punching down because like Chapelle, he’s taken shots at trans rights.

Taibbi is big on “both sides.”  Even after Dobbs and Don’t Say Gay and all the red state laws without rape or incest objections, it’s Bothsiderism.🙄

Several Conservatives have come out and said the 10 year old rape victim in OH should not have been allowed to have the abortion.  Two more child rape victims from OH, an 11 and 13 year old sisters they both had to get abortions, one of them again had to travel out of state.

Yeah both sides are trying to make women and little girls give birth against their wills — real Gilead stuff.

[burghgal]

Its not that I disagree with Bill all that much, but geez does he have a hard time with the female panelists.  He was super rude to Lis.

He is so much gentler on the males, regardless of policy or position.  He needs to really have a playback of the difference in his approach by the producers.

[arachne]

Bill is talking out of both sides of his mouth, again. 

One moment he tells us science is not to be trusted. Then with his final New Rule, he says overweight people are contradicting science. Which is it, Bill? 😠

[munchiewoman]

I've always liked that Bill could skewer Democrats as well as Republicans.  But he has become almost unwatchable for me with the anti-mask rhetoric, and his "My health, my choice" comments make me have a visceral reaction.  Because, no, when you're talking about the public health, it's not just your choice.  Your choice can affect me and mine, could KILL me and mine, so it's not just up to you.  And he's decided that it's only fat people who have to worry about Covid, so he's safe and it's their own fault that they are in danger.

Is being fat the healthiest of lifestyles?  No, but agonizing that I don't look like a Kardashian in a bikini is not healthy either.  Not having a flat tummy and wanting to eat donuts are not synonymous. We have a culture in this country that glorifies people based solely on their looks, and that is creating some crazy psychological problems for people.  it's not all about wanting to eat.  And the problem with obesity is that his "just do it" and stop eating so much attitude doesn't get into the underlying issues that make fat people fat, which was the point of those articles.  Throw in access to proper nutrition, food desserts where the cheap and readily available food is McDonald's or the crap you can get at the dollar store...It's not as simple as he'd like to make it.  Michelle Obama was vilified in this country for trying to bring nutrition into people's lives ... We have a serious problem in this country that his dismissive attitude won't help.

I myself am a little waffly on the trans in sports thing, but his saying that "men are winning women's sports" really hit me wrong.  I also think he used to have panelists from both sides of a conversation but now he seems to only show the one side a lot.  Let's talk to experts from both sides instead of just getting Bill's opinion of things.

[Hedgehog2022]

4 hours ago, burghgal said:

Its not that I disagree with Bill all that much, but geez does he have a hard time with the female panelists.  He was super rude to Lis.

He is so much gentler on the males, regardless of policy or position.  He needs to really have a playback of the difference in his approach by the producers.

Bill is a full on misogynist. He basically hates women and treats most of his women panelists like crap...interrupts them, scolds them, talks down to them and says hateful things to some of them. I don't know why any woman would watch his show or appear on it. I stopped watching it three years ago due his misogyny. The worst was when he called Elizabeth Warren "Pocahontas" in the most vile way. Warren said nothing and just gave him a death stare. Bill should be canceled and HBO should replace him with a female comic. 

[benteen]

I don't buy the Bill is a misogynist argument. I seem to recall many complaining here a few weeks ago that Bill wasn't tough enough on Kellyanne Conway. He certainly heaped a lot of praise on Nancy Pelosi this episode.

If he was interrupting Lis Smith a lot, a major reason is because she was doing the bulk of the talking. Matt Taibbi barely got a word in most of the time.

Edited August 6, 2022 by benteen

[limestation]

I kept getting distracted by the asshole in the audience who decided to whoop and yell like a demented banshee, at every single line, no matter how NOT funny they were. Do they not have people there who could have asked this moron to cool it?!!

Anyone know what seemed to have caused this about-face Bill has done on masks?!! He used to love to slag off those who spewed Covid was a hoax bullshit and now he acts like a grumpy old man, bitching about masks. 

And if he ever has that rude, obnoxious, hideous nightmare Kellyanne Conway on again? I'm done.

[aghst]

He seems at least as agist as he is sexist.

So older women may fare better than a Millenial or Gen Z since those are the ones he thinks are too woke and too much into cancel culture, groan at some of his jokes, etc.

[Avaleigh]

27 minutes ago, benteen said:

I don't buy the Bill is a misogynist argument.

I don't really either. Nikki Glaser, Donna Brazile, Fran Liebowitz, Mary Katharine Ham, and yes even Crypt Keeper Kellyanne are all female guests who have been on lately who were able to have a respectful dialogue with Bill while they were on the show. There are others but this is just off the top of my head. 

5 hours ago, munchiewoman said:

Throw in access to proper nutrition, food desserts where the cheap and readily available food is McDonald's or the crap you can get at the dollar store...It's not as simple as he'd like to make it.  Michelle Obama was vilified in this country for trying to bring nutrition into people's lives ... We have a serious problem in this country that his dismissive attitude won't help.

I definitely wish that Bill would be more thoughtful in his approach to discussing this issue. Considering it's so important to him, you'd think he'd go the extra mile and have his team do some research because it is a topic that is worthy of discussion. 

It's one thing to promote healthy body positivity by acknowledging that there are a range of healthy body types. I think it's a little worrying though when we start going down the avenue of promoting unhealthy lifestyles. 

I also think that food deserts and what causes them should be addressed when talking about the obesity problem in this country. Obesity is a huge problem but it doesn't really feel like it's being addressed enough. I feel like as a society we missed an opportunity during the height of the pandemic to do a hard push for people to embrace a healthier approach to living.

Even taking food deserts into account, there are still people who have access to food, transportation and money and are still not making the right choices when it comes to diet and exercise. Choosing to drink water instead of sugar heavy beverages, eating smaller portions, getting free exercise--these are all things that a person on pretty much any economic level can do. 

Regarding Michelle Obama being vilified for trying to get kids to eat healthier--it's so frustrating that there was such resistance to this because it's the sort of issue where we should all be on the same page. We should all want kids to eat healthier both at home and at school. 

[tessaray]

These days I'm usually suckered in by the interview (David Duchovny) and then am too lazy to turn it off. Major mistake. The panelists were okay, I guess but between the 7 minute rant on obesity, the Covid denying, the science trashing and the mask rant, omg. 

I actually believe in a lot of alternative medicine treatments and practices but Bill is not a good ambassador for them.

[ApocalypseThen]

I guess I'm in the minority yet again but I really enjoyed this episode. I also disagree that Bill is a misogynist. He's just prone to be an asshole from time to time (some would say all the time). This show I thought he handled Lis Smith quite well. She was being condescending (possibly without realizing it) after Bill called her out on Glenn Youngkin, he mocked her for always wanting to speak first even in a topic that she acknowledged she knew little about, and he gave her a bit of a look when she threw in a comment during New Rules (Bill hates when guests do that, regardless of who they are). That's just who Bill is. I've seen him do the same thing to guests that are meant to be close friends of his like Andrew Sullivan (he once mocked him coz he kept talking about his dead mom). 

I thought today's bit about Republican books about being macho was very funny. Bill has had a lot of misses with those lately. But with New Rules, it just feels too repetitive to come back to the obesity issue again. I actually tend to agree with most of what he says about it, but I'd prefer if he had a wider variety of topics for his closing monologue. It feels like cancel culture and obesity have been present in more than 70% of them. 

I felt that the topics had more of a focus this week, which made the show better. They were basically all about the midterm elections and how the population is perceiving Democrats and Republicans. Yet, it was a shame that two interesting topics were brought up at the very end and neither got much time - Pelosi's visit to Taiwan and the Democratic strategy to elevate fringe Republican candidates. They could have an entire show about these two topics alone and the major implications surrounding them.

Finally, I hope Bill keeps inviting Matt Taibbi back to the show. He's definitely one of the best guests. It's a shame he didn't get more time to speak in this show. 

[benteen]

On the subject of New Rules, I also agreed with many of the points that Bill raised. But I have felt for quite a while now if Bill is so concerned with nutrition and getting Americans to eat better that he should actually, you know, do something about it? Maybe invest in some kind of nutrition program or comany that produces healthy food. Something that gets this healthy food to areas that need it and educates people about its benefits. He has talked often about how the Democrats need to reach out to red states. Maybe this is a way. Otherwise it can come across a bit as an old man shouting get off my lawn.

Edited August 7, 2022 by benteen

[aghst]

Bill probably has a private chef that cooks him healthy meals and snacks from scratch.

Or he could go to high end farm to table restaurants, get a table in those places.

He wants to fat shame people for eating processed, junk foods.  Well bags of chips are a lot cheaper and requires less work than making meals from scratch.

[Hedgehog2022]

21 hours ago, benteen said:

I don't buy the Bill is a misogynist argument. I seem to recall many complaining here a few weeks ago that Bill wasn't tough enough on Kellyanne Conway. He certainly heaped a lot of praise on Nancy Pelosi this episode.

If he was interrupting Lis Smith a lot, a major reason is because she was doing the bulk of the talking. Matt Taibbi barely got a word in most of the time.

Bill wasn't tough on on Kellyanne Conway because he has been dabbling into appearing on Fox News and cozying up to right wingers as of late. Ask Michelle Goldberg (NY Times) and Heather McGee about how they were treated by Bill. And don't even get me started about all the snide misogynistic remarks he makes about women on his show and elsewhere. 

4 hours ago, benteen said:

On the subject of New Rules, I also agreed with many of the points that Bill raised. But I have felt for quite a while now if Bill is so concerned with nutrition and getting Americans to eat better that he should actually, you know, do something about it? Maybe invest in some kind of nutrition program or comany that produces healthy food. Something that gets this healthy food to areas that need it and educates people about its benefits. He has talked often about how the Democrats need to reach out to red states. Maybe this is a way. Otherwise it can come across a bit as an old man shouting get off my lawn.

He's still going on about this? Wow...what a broken record he is. He never eats anything but a green drink and some fruit paste and nuts. Once a week he "treats" himself to a baked potato and a piece of fish. 

15 hours ago, tessaray said:

These days I'm usually suckered in by the interview (David Duchovny) and then am too lazy to turn it off. Major mistake. The panelists were okay, I guess but between the 7 minute rant on obesity, the Covid denying, the science trashing and the mask rant, omg. 

I actually believe in a lot of alternative medicine treatments and practices but Bill is not a good ambassador for them.

He's getting warmed up to be a contributor to Fox News.

[benteen]

2 hours ago, Hedgehog2022 said:

He's still going on about this? Wow...what a broken record he is. He never eats anything but a green drink and some fruit paste and nuts. Once a week he "treats" himself to a baked potato and a piece of fish.

Yes, it was the New Rules commentary for this past episode. 

Edited August 7, 2022 by benteen

[heatherchandler]

18 hours ago, ApocalypseThen said:

Finally, I hope Bill keeps inviting Matt Taibbi back to the show. He's definitely one of the best guests. It's a shame he didn't get more time to speak in this show. 

I like Matt, he barely not get a word in with Lis Smith, she is beyond annoying.  And she was interrupting, and slurring her speech.

On 8/6/2022 at 3:59 PM, Hedgehog2022 said:

Bill is a full on misogynist. He basically hates women and treats most of his women panelists like crap...

I don’t think he is a misogynist at all.  

 

9 hours ago, aghst said:

Bill probably has a private chef that cooks him healthy meals and snacks from scratch.

Or he could go to high end farm to table restaurants, get a table in those places.

He wants to fat shame people for eating processed, junk foods.  Well bags of chips are a lot cheaper and requires less work than making meals from scratch.

He does, his chef makes his some kind of nut paste and apparently that’s all he eats.  
 

I agree, I don’t think he understands how expensive and time consuming it is to eat healthy.  Most people know what they are supposed to eat, but they can’t.  They are having to make poor decisions because they have to feed the family with x amount of money.  Especially now with prices double what they were 3 years ago.  I know there are ways to shop smarter and stretch your dollar but it takes skills and time that most families don’t have.

[The Solution]

I agree with Bill about the obesity issue, but if he wants to be helpful he should educate people about the true causes of obesity in the United States; i.e., processed foods. especially high fructose corn syrup, and the money to be made from those processed foods. There's a reason why obesity isn't the problem in most of the rest of the developed world that it is in the United States.

[aghst]

9 minutes ago, The Solution said:

I agree with Bill about the obesity issue, but if he wants to be helpful he should educate people about the true causes of obesity in the United States; i.e., processed foods. especially high fructose corn syrup, and the money to be made from those processed foods. There's a reason why obesity isn't the problem in most of the rest of the developed world that it is in the United States.

He's already done the HFCS thing.

Also talked about processed foods though not as a New Rule, just a lot of comments about it.

Other countries are seeing increased obesity.  I remember a Vice segment about all the Middle Eastern countries seeing increased obesity because American fast food chains were opening up in those countries.

In Europe, fast food chains are popular among the younger, teens and young adults, because it's cheaper and faster than going to little family-run sit down restaurants.

People know what's going on but they don't care or it's too hard or expensive to change dietary habits and lifestyles.

There's a reason why processed foods and fast foods are so successful.  They find ways to make you crave that stuff and also make it very accessible, cheaper than other options, instant gratification.

A privileged, hack comedian ranting about it over and over isn't going to change anything.  He's doing it for the applause, because he's addicted to approval, just like people are addicted to junk food.

[Hedgehog2022]

1 hour ago, The Solution said:

I agree with Bill about the obesity issue, but if he wants to be helpful he should educate people about the true causes of obesity in the United States; i.e., processed foods. especially high fructose corn syrup, and the money to be made from those processed foods. There's a reason why obesity isn't the problem in most of the rest of the developed world that it is in the United States.

True...but people that live in lower income neighborhoods don't have access to Supermarkets or fresh produce. They live in "food deserts". In order to get decent groceries they have to take a bus or another form of transportation to another neighborhood miles from where they live to buy quality food. They only have small bodega type of stores that only sell highly processed foods with tons of sugar and fat in them and have no fresh produce at all. I would have thought Bill woud have known about this...instead he only sees what he wants to see and fat shames people. Sorry Bill,  not everybody has a Whole Foods store in their neighborhood or has the means to hire a personal chef to make a fruit paste for their breakfast, lunch and dinner...except for Fridays when the chef prepares a broiled piece of fish and a baked potato with no oil or butter. 

[Hedgehog2022]

On 8/6/2022 at 9:15 AM, aghst said:

Of course Bill had to complain about a Dave Chapelle show being canceled, citing it as an instance of Democrats being against free speech.  They don’t exactly say how or who got the show canceled.

He also rejects the distinction between punching up vs. punching down because like Chapelle, he’s taken shots at trans rights.

Taibbi is big on “both sides.”  Even after Dobbs and Don’t Say Gay and all the red state laws without rape or incest objections, it’s Bothsiderism.🙄

Several Conservatives have come out and said the 10 year old rape victim in OH should not have been allowed to have the abortion.  Two more child rape victims from OH, an 11 and 13 year old sisters they both had to get abortions, one of them again had to travel out of state.

Yeah both sides are trying to make women and little girls give birth against their wills — real Gilead stuff.

Taibbi has become alot like the other journalists that live and work in the DC area...they spout the "both sides do it" mantra so as to keep the door open for access to both Repubs and Dems. Chuck Todd has been doing this for years and may be the worst offender of this. 

[Avaleigh]

53 minutes ago, Hedgehog2022 said:

True...but people that live in lower income neighborhoods don't have access to Supermarkets or fresh produce. They live in "food deserts". In order to get decent groceries they have to take a bus or another form of transportation to another neighborhood miles from where they live to buy quality food. They only have small bodega type of stores that only sell highly processed foods with tons of sugar and fat in them and have no fresh produce at all. I would have thought Bill woud have known about this...instead he only sees what he wants to see and fat shames people. Sorry Bill,  not everybody has a Whole Foods store in their neighborhood or has the means to hire a personal chef to make a fruit paste for their breakfast, lunch and dinner...except for Fridays when the chef prepares a broiled piece of fish and a baked potato with no oil or butter. 

Food deserts are a problem but it's only a small part of the problem. The Washington Post did an article about this a few years ago and said that food deserts weren't the primary cause of obesity in this country. They cited studies that had been done in multiple states including South Carolina, Michigan, and Pennsylvania to see if access to better quality food would result in people making healthier choices when it came to food and drinks. Unfortunately the results of the studies didn't improve diet or weight for low income shoppers for the most part.

Initiatives to build supermarkets in low-income areas with relatively poor access to large food retailers (“food deserts”) have been implemented at all levels of government, although evaluative studies have not found these projects to improve diet or weight status for shoppers.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4899338/

Conclusions: Improved food access through establishment of a full-service food retailer, by itself, does not show strong evidence towards enhancing health-related outcomes over short durations. Presently the field is developing and the complex linking pathways/mechanisms are yet to be elucidated. Further evidence, in the form of high-quality research in different communities with longer follow-up periods, is needed to inform policy decisions.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28566095/

Food deserts need to be addressed but ultimately people need to do their best to make better choices. Low income households drink more sugary beverages than people with more income and more education. Families choosing to drink water instead of soda or juice is something that can easily be done for the average household. This is just one example of many.

Even places like 7 Eleven sell apples, bananas, hummus with carrots and celery, etc. People don't always have to buy chips or candy bars or whatever else. There are even bodegas that sell plain oatmeal. 

With regard to Bill's point about the direction of certain ad campaigns--body positivity is a good thing and it's obviously beneficial to show that there are a range of healthy body types that don't only have to be a size 2 or 0. I think he's right though that we should be mindful that ads don't jump from healthy examples of body positivity to examples that are obviously unhealthy. It should still be okay to recognize that there are body types that are unhealthy without it being interpreted as fat shaming. 

[sistermagpie]

14 hours ago, The Solution said:

I agree with Bill about the obesity issue, but if he wants to be helpful he should educate people about the true causes of obesity in the United States; i.e., processed foods. especially high fructose corn syrup, and the money to be made from those processed foods. There's a reason why obesity isn't the problem in most of the rest of the developed world that it is in the United States.

It's not like he's ever going to bring anyone on the show who might have done more research into stuff that just feels true to him any more than he brings on trans people to talk about trans issues. He's not the best person to be educating anyone.

[aghst]

He could have his producers do more research, like Last Week Tonight obviously does.

But Real Time is more guests-driven so that is probably where their producers spend their time.

[heatherchandler]

On 8/8/2022 at 12:56 AM, Avaleigh said:

Food deserts are a problem but it's only a small part of the problem. The Washington Post did an article about this a few years ago and said that food deserts weren't the primary cause of obesity in this country. They cited studies that had been done in multiple states including South Carolina, Michigan, and Pennsylvania to see if access to better quality food would result in people making healthier choices when it came to food and drinks. Unfortunately the results of the studies didn't improve diet or weight for low income shoppers for the most part.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4899338/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28566095/

Food deserts need to be addressed but ultimately people need to do their best to make better choices.

This is so true.  It’s not that the food is inaccessible.  People pick what the like, and the junk is addictive.  And picking unhealthy food is not a moral failing.  It IS really crappy to feed sugary junk to your kids.  But money is a factor too, and the recession is hitting lower income people hard, it’s difficult for parents.  

[deirdra]

The problem is that the government subsidizes the Big Agra ingredients that go into their ultra processed junkfoods, making them cheaper than real food, like corn for HFCS, & industrial seed oils rather than broccoli & cauliflower.  Bottles of soft drinks are often cheaper than bottled water. Removing the subsidies would induce farmers to grow more real food instead of subsidized junkfood ingredients.

Edited August 14, 2022 by deirdra

[The Solution]

14 hours ago, deirdra said:

The problem is that the government subsidizes the Big Agra ingredients that go into their ultra processed junkfoods, making them cheaper than real food, like corn for HFCS, & industrial seed oils rather than broccoli & cauliflower.  Bottles of soft drinks are often cheaper than bottled water. Removing the subsidies would induce farmers to grow more real food instead of subsidized junkfood ingredients.

This was the point I was trying to make.