S03.E03: All In

[tessaray]

Release Date:  June 24, 2022

As NASA scrambles to prepare for the launch to Mars, Margo is confronted with a harsh personal reality.

[Anduin]

Hard episode to watch. But here's a thought. Considering the presence of a hostile foreign power at the conference, why doesn't Margo have a discreet handler? One who can call for backup when the KGB arrives. Sloppy work. But I suppose it wouldn't suit the plot.

For that matter, I can see why she didn't report herself to the FBI when she got home. She's critical to the whole operation. If she goes down, everyone else will be investigated. Slow everything down no end. Still, the other shoe will drop for her eventually. I'll be sad to see her go, but at least she's had a good run.

Danny, no. This fails to move me to anything but irritation. Maybe it'll all come together in the end, but I'm skeptical.

And we have liftoff! Interesting to see the difference in ships. NASA have what looks to be an advanced space shuttle design. Helios have a spinship! Beautiful! Is it weird to have a crush on a fictional ship? Asking for a friend. While the USSR goes with what looks to be a big rocket design. Maybe an update on Soyuz. That sequence, I love.

All in all, thumbs in the middle.

[Goldfish77]

Watching Margo and the Russian guy struggle to get to first base was more cringe worthy than Karen and Danny sleeping together last season.  I thought for sure that they were already sleeping together when they talked on the pay phones in the last episode, but no they took 6 years just to barely graze hands in the elevator.  Margo kind of reminds me of Martha from The Americans.

I agree with the previous poster about the coolness of the three different Mars ships.  

[marinw]

Of the three ships, the Soviets seem to be the least technologically advanced. Launching a rocket from Earth is so 1970s. I like how they didn't tell us if Margo gave up the engine design. I'm guessing not as she is still running NASA.

Helios has the largest and most comfortable ship, NASA has the coolest looking. Which is obviously the most important thing here.

Karen must be so happy that Danny is off Earth.

[Anduin]

4 minutes ago, marinw said:

Of the three ships, the Soviets seem to be the least technologically advanced. Launching a rocket from Earth is so 1970s. I like how they didn't tell us if Margo gave up the engine design. I'm guessing not as she is still running NASA.

But they needed her help to get the engine working, unless they're relying on chemical fuel. That's what the blackmail was about. Not to sabotage anyone, just to be in the race.

I'm now going to speculate. I think there might be some problems on Mars, at least two of the factions will have to work together to survive. Possibly all three. I just hope no one shoots at each other.

[CarpeFelis]

Wow, technology development is really accelerated on this show—the Helios bridge had monitors that looked like today’s IRL. And their ship made me think of 2001 (does HAL run those automated systems they were talking about?).

WTF is wrong with Danny?! The guy’s a newlywed and already he’s out cheating on his wife, trespassing at his childhood house, and drinking even though he was supposedly sober? Someone had mentioned Gordo being “Good Time Gordo” back in the ‘60s and I guess Ed still thinks that kind of behavior is OK for Gordo’s kid. Too bad that’s letting him skip out on the consequences of his actions—I’m with Dani on that. The episode ended with a 2-year time jump, but I’d be interested in seeing what happened when Karen had to work with him over those 2 years.

BTW Danny’s wife had me shaking my head. Was she recreating the ‘50s or ‘60s? My husband and I got married a couple of months after their fictional wedding took place, and I sure as hell wasn’t dressing up like Donna Reed and popping a roast in the oven—after getting home from work, which Amber probably doesn’t.

I’m inclined to think maybe Margo did give the Soviets the engine design. Because a) they did manage to launch in 1994, b) her assistant gave her the same “your record is in” message which indicates to me she didn’t let them kill Sergei, and c) she wasn’t blackmailed into federal prison.

[marinw]

15 hours ago, Anduin said:

I think there might be some problems on Mars, at least two of the factions will have to work together to survive. Possibly all three. I just hope no one shoots at each other.

I'm hoping they decide to say FU to the nations on Earth and band together to form a colony. Which would be difficult to do without resupply ships from Earth.

Danny is not fit to be on any ship. But at east we don't have a ship with two Danny's (or Dani's).

I really like the way they do timejumps on this show.

Edited June 25, 2022 by marinw

[chocolatine]

I really loved the use of Black Hole Sun in this episode, although I'm biased because I love Soundgarden. But hearing '90s grunge also felt a bit weird while looking at the super-accelerated technology of the FAM-verse, including a private spaceflight company a la SpaceX decades ahead of its time.

This episode really beat us over the head with how much Danny is like Gordo, so I foresee a meltdown on Mars in his near future.

Ed's not my favorite character and I find his old-school astronaut shtick overplayed, but I laughed at his reaction to Not!Musk's suggestion that he include a poet in the Mars crew. 

Edited June 25, 2022 by chocolatine

[marinw]

5 hours ago, chocolatine said:

This episode really beat us over the head with how much Danny is like Gordo, so I foresee a meltdown on Mars in his near future.

Danny has probably checked to see that the ship's bar is still well stocked from its hotel days.

5 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Not!Musk's suggestion that he include a poet in the Mars crew. 

Astronauts can write poetry! 

Edited June 25, 2022 by marinw

[xaxat]

On 6/24/2022 at 4:33 AM, Anduin said:

Is it weird to have a crush on a fictional ship?

Not at all! I've had a crush on the Enterprise since TOS.

I thought this episode was kind of weird. The show has used the past seasons to build a series of Chekov's Guns, none of which went off. Danny is literally going to be millions of miles from Karen (and presumably booze). Margo apparently cooperated enough with the Soviets to avoid being exposed. And Ellen managed to survive the white hot scrutiny of a presidential election without being outed. A situation made weirder by the fact that the show name dropped Gary Hart and Bill Clinton.

I like the scene where the older flight controller felt appreciated instead of taken for granted.

13 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

TW Danny’s wife had me shaking my head. Was she recreating the ‘50s or ‘60s? My husband and I got married a couple of months after their fictional wedding took place, and I sure as hell wasn’t dressing up like Donna Reed and popping a roast in the oven—after getting home from work, which Amber probably doesn’t.

That scene made me laugh. A whole roast! How much does Danny eat?

13 hours ago, Anduin said:

I'm now going to speculate. I think there might be some problems on Mars, at least two of the factions will have to work together to survive. Possibly all three. I just hope no one shoots at each other.

Spoiler

In the season trailer, there are three distinct spacesuits working in close quarters on Mars.

8 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Ed's not my favorite character and I find his old-school astronaut shtick overplayed,

When Dev explained the bridge setup Ed made it sound like he would be taking to the seas with a sextant and nautical charts with the legend "Here They be Dragons" on the border.

[Anduin]

13 minutes ago, xaxat said:

Not at all! I've had a crush on the Enterprise since TOS.

I thought this episode was kind of weird. The show has used the past seasons to build a series of Chekov's Guns, none of which went off. Danny is literally going to be millions of miles from Karen (and presumably booze). Margo apparently cooperated enough with the Soviets to avoid being exposed. And Ellen managed to survive the white hot scrutiny of a presidential election without being outed. A situation made weirder by the fact that the show name dropped Gary Hart and Bill Clinton.

When Dev explained the bridge setup Ed made it sound like he would be taking to the seas with a sextant and nautical charts with the legend "Here They be Dragons" on the border.

While the Enterprise is a classic, it's just never done much for me. But glad to know I'm not the only one in love with spaceships. :)

As I remember, there was a time when a lot of people thought computers could do anything. Ed is old and wise/cynical enough not to buy into it. But it's funny to imagine him captaining a spelljammer.

Now, on further thought, 2001 and Babylon 5 both had spinships. But this one is so damn shiny! I don't know why I'm obsessed with it, but I just am. However, it looked like the ring was spinning while the ship was under burn. Wouldn't that mess up the point of the spin? Both those mechanisms provide gravity. Surely one would be dominant. Hopefully it'll be the spin, or else the wall will become the floor.

Furthermore, the NASA ship seemed to be oriented wrong. Dani and her copilot looked to face the window, at the front. But if their thrust comes from the rear, that's actually the bottom, no matter what shape the ship is. So what you'd think would be the floor would actually be a wall. W only caught a glimplese of the Russian ship, but it looks like it makes more sense from a thrust perspective.

Is my thinking correct? As much as I love SF, my grasp of science isn't the best.

[KarenX]

On 6/24/2022 at 7:09 AM, Goldfish77 said:

Margo kind of reminds me of Martha from The Americans.

I had the exact same thought.

Also… what was with all The Martian references? Just some tribute to a writer’s favorite movie or something? “Work the problem,” “It’s not the worst idea,” one of the six seats was for a botanist (“anybody can grow plants on Mars”)…

[CarpeFelis]

22 hours ago, KarenX said:

I had the exact same thought.

Also… what was with all The Martian references? Just some tribute to a writer’s favorite movie or something? “Work the problem,” “It’s not the worst idea,” one of the six seats was for a botanist (“anybody can grow plants on Mars”)…

I was an engineer for many years and “work the problem” was a commonly used phrase.

[xaxat]

On 6/25/2022 at 10:18 AM, Anduin said:

Furthermore, the NASA ship seemed to be oriented wrong. Dani and her copilot looked to face the window, at the front. But if their thrust comes from the rear, that's actually the bottom, no matter what shape the ship is. So what you'd think would be the floor would actually be a wall. W only caught a glimplese of the Russian ship, but it looks like it makes more sense from a thrust perspective.

Even with their advanced AU tech, I don't think any of the teams have engines capable of simulating gravity through acceleration/deceleration. No Epstein Drive (The Expanse) yet.

On 6/26/2022 at 12:35 AM, KarenX said:

Also… what was with all The Martian references? Just some tribute to a writer’s favorite movie or something? “Work the problem,” “It’s not the worst idea,” one of the six seats was for a botanist (“anybody can grow plants on Mars”)…

When NASA was discussing the mission in the conference room, I was thinking "Y'all need to science the shit out of this."

[marinw]

The Command Centre (or whatever the correct term is) of the Polaris looked a like a smaller version of the bridge of the Enterprise. That's not a coincidence.

Ed and crew didn't even need to put on thier spacesuits! Luxury! I assume they are the only ship of the three with gravity, if the spinny part is still spinning.

IIRC, the phrase "Work the problem" was in the film Apollo 13.

Edited June 27, 2022 by marinw

[Anduin]

7 hours ago, xaxat said:

Even with their advanced AU tech, I don't think any of the teams have engines capable of simulating gravity through acceleration/deceleration. No Epstein Drive (The Expanse) yet.

So you're saying that the engines don't put out enough thrust to generate any notable gravity?

[PurpleTentacle]

On 6/24/2022 at 10:33 AM, Anduin said:

For that matter, I can see why she didn't report herself to the FBI when she got home. She's critical to the whole operation. If she goes down, everyone else will be investigated. Slow everything down no end.

That is precisely why I think the whole thing would have been covered up and Margo would have gotten away with a slap on the wrist, if she had turned herself in. Nobody would have risked the Mars race for a little espionage. Especially since it was mutually benefitial and Margo was sure to not share anything with military application. I mean this show already dealt with how far the US was willing to go to win the space race. Operation paperclip, anyone?

I can't believe she went along with that. Her main motivator was the fear for Sergei, I guess. But was there really no way to give him the message "you better defect while you are here in London, because I'm not going to play ball"? Or get somebodies attention to extract him? She must have connections to CIA and FBI and a secure way of contacting them, right? She is the head of NASA and the cold war and space race are still in full swing.

On 6/24/2022 at 10:33 AM, Anduin said:

While the USSR goes with what looks to be a big rocket design.

They actually launched from earth, which makes no sense to me. Why wouldn't they launch from their moon base? Why would you use up all your fuel to get out of earths gravity? That seems like the showrunners made it different just to be different.

On 6/25/2022 at 7:43 AM, chocolatine said:

Ed's not my favorite character and I find his old-school astronaut shtick overplayed, but I laughed at his reaction to Not!Musk's suggestion that he include a poet in the Mars crew. 

I mean I can see both sides. I'm all for the arts and a poet on Mars would be a cool thing eventually. But for the first flight? I mean come on. That is about establishing a base and survival. Mars won't explode tomorrow and a poet can be on trip three in 6 years.

On 6/25/2022 at 4:18 PM, Anduin said:

Now, on further thought, 2001 and Babylon 5 both had spinships. But this one is so damn shiny! I don't know why I'm obsessed with it, but I just am. However, it looked like the ring was spinning while the ship was under burn. Wouldn't that mess up the point of the spin? Both those mechanisms provide gravity. Surely one would be dominant. Hopefully it'll be the spin, or else the wall will become the floor.

The gravity from thrust should be minor after the first accelleration. Remember, objects in motion stay in motion unless acted upon. If you drive on the Atuobahn with 250km/h you don't feel the speed after the initial accelleration either. You only feel it if you come to an aprubt stop. Well for a second, afterwards you are too dead to feel much.

On 6/25/2022 at 4:18 PM, Anduin said:

Furthermore, the NASA ship seemed to be oriented wrong. Dani and her copilot looked to face the window, at the front. But if their thrust comes from the rear, that's actually the bottom, no matter what shape the ship is. So what you'd think would be the floor would actually be a wall.

Not sure what you mean. It looked fine to me. The only question I had was why it was so aerodynamic. The moon has no atmosphere and Mars has extremely little (and I don't think they are going to land the ship itself anyway?). They could have pretty much built a cube. That would have been easier to construct and more space efficient. Only explaination would be if most of the ship was built on earth and they had to bring it up to the moon. But it sounded like it was going to be built there.

[Anduin]

29 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

The gravity from thrust should be minor after the first accelleration. Remember, objects in motion stay in motion unless acted upon. If you drive on the Atuobahn with 250km/h you don't feel the speed after the initial accelleration either. You only feel it if you come to an aprubt stop. Well for a second, afterwards you are too dead to feel much.

Thanks. Like I said, science isn't a strong point. :) And I have very little tolerance for Project Rocket's writing style.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Lol, Clinton looking over at Ellen during the debate like, "I could get her." Yeah, no.

Gosh, Danny having to look up at that NASA statue of his parents on their fatal mission. It must've weighed on him, being reminded every day going into work that he had to live up to their heroic legacy.

Aleida's loyalty to Margo is impressive. But wow does she have her head in the sand about her home situation. Great compartmentalization skills.

Danny's Stepford wife Amber was setting down vintage (in 2022, anyway) Mikasa dinnerware. Historical prop details still on point. Too bad her husband is a cheating drunk liar.

Whoa, Danny as Ed's wingman! What could possibly go wrong? When Ed made the announcement Karen's face went, "Oh shit" for a split second before she caught herself.

Margo was finally going to get her some Sergei after decades of nerdy foreplay but alas, no good deed goes unpunished. I don't know how she didn't see that extortion coming--or at least the potential of it.

Helios and NASA literally in a race in space, with the Soviets bringing up the rear. Okay. Just a wee bit corny to me.

So are we to assume Margo gave the Russkies what they wanted? Geez. Hopefully she included a bit of sabotage, or she's doing a double-agent thing via President Ellen's intervention with the spy agencies.

Black Hole Sun is never wrong.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Joimiaroxeu

[Hanahope]

But won’t the Russians or soviets come back with the same threat to Margo again and again?  Will Margo continue to give up info?  Maybe not if she never gets another record, but the Soviet’s have other ways of contact.  Will she never go to London again?

Nice of Alieda not to tell Bill that Helios approached her first.  
 

I know for plot reasons Ellen was going to win, but I would have a hard time thinking to public would want a hard evangelical as VP in the 90s.

if nothing else, I love this show for realisticly (relatively at least) depicting the infancy/toddler stage of space travel.  It may never actually happen in my lifetime.  

 

[TV Anonymous]

The series was fun in season one when it was just an alternative history where to Soviets landed in the moon first. But then, it diverged so much from real life, it required bigger suspension of disbelief.

What kind of company was Helios that it was able to compete head-to-head with the might of the United States Government? My biggest issue with this episode. Besides, even for private sector, FAA certification is needed for astronauts. Someone that is grounded for government mission certainly cannot fly private mission.

[paramitch]

I love the way the whole Helios thing is sending up the early days of Google, FB, Tesla, etc. The whole pseudo-democracy aspect (that immediately goes away when he has a temper tantrum) is so damn funny. I just can't quite believe Helen and Ed would be THAT quickly taken in.

I hate the whole Stalker Unbalanced Danny thing and am so bummed it is still continuing on TEN YEARS LATER. I mean, oh my God. Ew.

As far as Margo & Sergei, look, I am a shipper at heart, so I admit that I was delighted Margo was finally going to get a night with Sergei. Especially when we saw them delicately navigate their shy romantic boundaries, for, what, SIX YEARS?

I mean, look, I am socially awkward myself, but I was shocked neither one of them imploded.

And for what it's worth, I thought the initial hookup was really beautifully done -- they didn't just instantly devour each other (in that movie-actory way, see also the awful Keeley/Roy kisses on "Ted Lasso"), and Sergei was genuinely sweet and tender with Margo.

What makes it so sad to me is that there is genuine attraction and emotion there. I appreciated that they showed how unwilling Sergei was to use her this way.

As far as the Russians immediately intruding, I thought that was so clumsy and ham-handed, and such a mistake. It didn't break immersion for me, but their handling of the entire situation felt the opposite of what was needed, which was a suave, persuasive soft touch (whether or not it succeeded).

They were too blunt with Sergei. AND Margo. They should've leaned on his romantic and protective feelings. Convince him of the harmlessness of it, of what they need. Let the two of them sleep together, let him continue to get info from her subtly. She would have been a huge asset and Sergei would have felt it was within bounds since it was what was already happening, etc. Especially once they slept together and an actual romance began.

But the way it was presented here, like others, I also couldn't help but wonder why Margo didn't go right to the FBI and be blunt and straightforward, with "I made a comment about the O-rings not getting too cold and am friendly with Sergei, but now they're trying to use me."

Because what they could have done then was use Margo as a double agent to "cooperate" while sabotaging them right back. If, of course, she would have agreed.

On 6/24/2022 at 7:09 AM, Goldfish77 said:

Watching Margo and the Russian guy struggle to get to first base was more cringe worthy than Karen and Danny sleeping together last season.  I thought for sure that they were already sleeping together when they talked on the pay phones in the last episode, but no they took 6 years just to barely graze hands in the elevator.  Margo kind of reminds me of Martha from The Americans.

As a nerdy socially awkward Margo type, I loved the elevator touch and the entire slow dance and was cheering them both on. I thought their kiss was adorable. Then of course the stupid Russians had to screw it all up. Not even giving them a night together! Sigh.

You're spot-on that Margo is tragically similar to poor Martha from "The Americans." Margo, in her buttoned-up uptightness and zero personal life, really breaks my heart right now. I wondered if the drinking was a sign of... more drinking to come. Just to get through it all.

On 6/24/2022 at 10:43 PM, chocolatine said:

Ed's not my favorite character and I find his old-school astronaut shtick overplayed, but I laughed at his reaction to Not!Musk's suggestion that he include a poet in the Mars crew. 

I respect Ed but I cannot bring myself to like him. He's such a goddamn sourpuss. The actor is handsome, but the way he plays Ed (or the way Ed is written), there is something mean and cold about him. And he's just gotten meaner the older he's gotten.

On 6/25/2022 at 3:47 AM, marinw said:

Astronauts can write poetry! 

In all seriousness, Al Bean, who walked on the moon in Apollo 12, later became a fairly respected artist, and he painted many paintings depicting his time in space and on the moon.

I do think it isn't a bad idea to bring along an astronaut-artist or astronaut-poet or two (I'm a sucker for the moment in the film Contact when Ellie says, "They should have sent a poet."). I do think sending along some artists is a cool idea.

But maybe not in the first leap. I fully support scientists and pilots getting there first. Artists and writers and poets can follow up and get there when it's safer!

On 6/25/2022 at 6:58 AM, xaxat said:

And Ellen managed to survive the white hot scrutiny of a presidential election without being outed. A situation made weirder by the fact that the show name dropped Gary Hart and Bill Clinton.

I feel so sorry for Ellen. Right when she was about to live a wholly free live, Pam and her husband manipulated her into selling out, and now she's living a sexless marriage, hiding everything about herself, and playing politics as a conservative, which grosses me out so much (especially since her VP and everyone like them are always front and center against the LGBTQ community, assisting AIDS relief, etc. But I do guess I find it very believable.

On 6/29/2022 at 2:19 AM, PurpleTentacle said:

That is precisely why I think the whole thing would have been covered up and Margo would have gotten away with a slap on the wrist, if she had turned herself in. Nobody would have risked the Mars race for a little espionage. Especially since it was mutually benefitial and Margo was sure to not share anything with military application. I mean this show already dealt with how far the US was willing to go to win the space race. Operation paperclip, anyone?

I can't believe she went along with that. Her main motivator was the fear for Sergei, I guess. But was there really no way to give him the message "you better defect while you are here in London, because I'm not going to play ball"? Or get somebodies attention to extract him? She must have connections to CIA and FBI and a secure way of contacting them, right? She is the head of NASA and the cold war and space race are still in full swing.

All this! Margo has nothing but the work, and her integrity. I don't quite buy that she would sell out so easily. I would much more easily believe she'd go to the authorities and go, "So hey, the Russians are trying to blackmail me..."

On 7/2/2022 at 10:22 AM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Aleida's loyalty to Margo is impressive. But wow does she have her head in the sand about her home situation. Great compartmentalization skills.

I've never liked Aleida, and I really want to. But she always seems to be an asshole about something.

Edited August 14, 2023 by paramitch
oops wrong episode (removed spoiler)

[Black Knight]

Watching S3 now after binging the first two seasons.

It's been said a few times that Karen is a fantastic recruiter, so it was interesting to see her fail with Aleida. It seemed like her fatal misstep came when she talked about Aleida being seen as Margo's girl. She didn't realize that's what Aleida has wanted since she was a teen who'd recently lost her mother, to be Margo's girl. Karen was doing better when she was just promising more money and lack of bureaucratic bullshit - impersonal incentives that could let Aleida tell herself that she could make the move from NASA without damaging her personal relationship with Margo. Once Karen cast the move as a deliberate split from Margo specifically, it was over.