S07.E12: Too Legit To Quit

[scarynikki12]

Quote

With Gideon hurt, the Legends only have one way to save her. Evil Gideon continues to try to destroy the Legends, until Gideon reminds her of a certain protocol she must follow.

 

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[scarynikki12]

Gideon had the sense to get out the code that keeps Evil Gideon from killing her and, by extension, all of them.

Yeah they're not retiring. Nice try.

Looking forward to Spoons John McClaning through the Waverider ducts.

Yeah Evil Gideon is totally going to show them things she thinks they'll want to see. 

Esperanza playing Astra playing Spooner was great. 

So...Gideon's taking over as captain?

I want a Beebo piñata! 

If you really want kids Sara, go for it, but I beg you not name any of them after people you already know. 

Alan didn't remember the quote so I'm thinking he's a robot. I WAS RIGHT! Honestly, the plan to leave the dogtags behind after saving real Alan wasn't a bad one.

Of course Evil Gideon is still manipulating things even after getting what she wanted.

Good on Gwyn for realizing the robot fakeout. 

[Lady Calypso]

This was yet another episode that really stood out as a huge character study for many of them. Every character got a chance to shine and it was just...really, really good.

So many good emotional beats. So many good moments. 

Zari was a HUGE standout. What a huge moment for her character, to be shown a future that would have previously given her joy, but instead put her into a spiral. She really was looking forward to a different type of future, but instead got stuck in a vapid fashion icon future instead. Normally, that would have made Zari happy, but her being upset that she wasn't doing something more heroic? Her talking about being stuck in the shadow of Zari 1.0? Amazing moment for her, and I loved her scene with Nate. Zari/Nate's friendship scene is what I wanted from Zari 1.0/Nate, not the romance we got shoved to instead. But Nate trying to comfort Zari 2.0 was very, very well done.

Same with Gwyn/Ava, who had a very nice moment. Again, another person whose future wasn't so bright as I'm sure Gideon wanted. Him wanting Alun and feeling like he couldn't have him? Heartbreaking. So I really enjoyed Ava/Zari teaming up to try to save Alun, even if Gideon made Robot Alun first. 

It was nice for Gwyn to realize this wasn't his Alun, although now he's gonna go back to try to save Alun, not realizing his death is a Fixed Point. But why is he a fixed point? Just for Gwyn to create time travel, I guess? 

Also, even thought Astra was portraying Spooner for her look into her future, I think that's how Spooner would have reacted. Though good on Spooner for inspiring Astra to duplicate the keys. 

Sara/Ava's future is having a kid? Kind of unexpected, but I guess it surprised the two of them. 

Behrad's future being a kids television performer and singer? Interesting. That...surprisingly kind of fits, I guess?

Nate being a historical novelist? That fits too, although why is Nick Zano getting all the crazy costumes this season?

Astra running for politics is also expected. 

And, Gideon/Gary, who stay on the ship...except did AI Gideon just kill Gary? I know he got blown off the ship but did that kill him or is he just floating around? I can't remember if the aliens died when they floated through the Temporal Zone.

Really great episode. Season 7 has officially solidified itself in a solid third place, with potential to go up in the rankings.

[Lantern7]

Are we ever going to get a 22-episode season? I know we've had clunker episodes in the past few seasons . . . and then you got this one, which was beautiful.

I mean, I kept waiting for the penny and/or other shoe to drop. Gideon giving Gwyn a robot double of his love qualifies, as well as Gwyn figuring it out and Gideon-v2 jettisoning Gary into the timestream. There was a time where I would've been great with that. But miracle of miracles, Gary has been fleshed out as a character. Wouldn't have expected that around the time Neron gifted him a third nipple.

Quick aside: I think we should just start referring to the "Evil" Gideon as "Gidget" from now on. Makes things less confusing.

I'm thinking Gidget was trying to fool the Legends by showing them sweet futures. Aside from Zari wanting to be more than a mid-21st Century social media mogul, Gidget got everyone good in terms of pulling on their emotions. Behrad doing children's music, Nate writing about his experiences, Sara and Ava having children . . . very, very sweet. Too sweet, though, and it didn't deter Sara from trying to figure out a way for the team not to retire. After all, Legends NEVER quit. Well, except for the ones that have left. I'm tickled Sara chimed in on the Hawkcouple to finish up that roll call.

53 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Astra running for politics is also expected. 

Not to me. Also: did it look like Astra was running for President? I thought she was English. Of course, since she was raised in Actual Hell, I'm thinking the rules and regulations could be smudged.

2 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Esperanza playing Astra playing Spooner was great.

It's an Arrowverse staple: if you star on a show, you'll eventually have to play another role.

2 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

I want a Beebo piñata! 

Awwwww . . . I don't think I'd have the heart to take a whack at one of those.

[lurker22]

After the last few episodes where Sara got to be her own person, she's once again stuck by Ava's side. NGL, I'm jealous everyone got to see their own future, but Sara's future has to tie in with Ava's. Having a kid feels very fanfic-like. And it irks me when they call each other Captain, when others call them Captains, and when Ava was standing side-by-side with Sara as Captains. I still fail to see what Ava has done to deserve the Captain title other than being the Captain's girlfriend-then-wife.

And Ava wanting to save Alun and possibly breaking time in the process, isn't this the thing that she has scolded Sara for and made her feel guilty about, and have to apologize for? Making rash decisions without consulting each other?

Out of everyone's future, I think I like Astra's the most. Feels most like her, and I think the most impactful. But Spooner going back to her mother also is great, because of what she has gone through as a child.

I like the idea of Gideon taking over as Captain when the Legends retire. But not Evil!Gideon as her AI. Sometimes, I think Evil!Gideon loves killing people too much, and is just using "saving the timeline" as an excuse.

[tennisgurl]

For an episode that we know is gearing up for something we know isn't going to stick (the Legends retiring) they still managed to make this a really solid, emotional episode. A lot of great character beats throughout, especially Zari being upset that in the future she will be a billionaire makeup tycoon, but not a hero. Its a huge moment for her character, she really has changed from the person who only helped the team at first under protest and wanted to get back to her followers as soon as possible. She's still very much that person, but she has really grown into someone who wants to make a real difference in the world.

Everyone's futures seemed to make sense for them, but while Ava and Sara's kid was cute, I wish we knew more about what they did as individuals instead of as a couple, it felt very fanfic-y just to throw the kid at us without anything else. They have done a much better job this season showing their individual strengths lately (especially Sara, my one true captain) so I hope they don't end up being a unit again. I suspected that the futures they saw might be fake at first to lure them into an easy retirement, but with the kid I think it will be real, it seems pretty cruel for the show to have Sara and Ava see a daughter that doesn't exist.

I suspected right away that something was up with Alun when he didn't finish the quote from Gwyn, so I am really glad he caught on quickly, even if this is going to end in heartache. I guess his death is a fixed point because Gwyn invents time travel because of his death? The poor guy, he really just cant catch a break.

The music was really nice this week, Behrad's singing was really nice and I always love some Rod Stewart, gave the farewell party a nice bittersweet quality. The Beebo piñata was adorable, I feel like I would have a hard time hitting the little furball.   

Of course Evil Gideon is still being evil even when she gets what she wants more or less, we still have to have a reason to get the band back together. 

[appositival]

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I guess his death is a fixed point because Gwyn invents time travel because of his death?

Can they kill Gwyn before he invents time travel? If Old!Gwyn tells Young!Gwyn about the paradox, Young!Gwyn can refuse to invent time travel unless Alun lives.

I'd like to see Robo!Nate as the fixed point guard, but that would make the plan above useless because Robo!Nate doesn't understand paradoxes, he just punches them.

[scarynikki12]

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I suspected that the futures they saw might be fake at first to lure them into an easy retirement, but with the kid I think it will be real, it seems pretty cruel for the show to have Sara and Ava see a daughter that doesn't exist.

I think that specific kid is fake but it seemed to make them realize they want kids, in real sense rather than a hypothetical "sure I want to have kids one day" sense, so it will come true one way or another. I did like that Sara specifically brought up adoption because she ends up in dangerous situations too often to get pregnant and you know Ava's Sara Jealousy would return if she were to get pregnant because of the donor sperm (I absolutely believe she'd be that petty as said Jealousy prevented her from comforting Sara when Oliver died). I can't see Ava getting pregnant because of her clone issues. Maybe they could adopt a couple of kids from history who were destined to die but whose deaths won't have any effect on the timeline like when Rip recruited Sara and the OG team in the pilot.

I still think Zari's dogtag plan was a good one and probably would have worked if she'd been allowed to try it. Gwyn joined up after the war so his grief did result in time travel's creation and letting Alun skip over that time to join him where he is now shouldn't cause any kind of temporal problem. Maybe they'll return to that next episode.

[Zonk]

Good thing Gary is an alien. I don't think anybody else could survive being spaced temporalzoned.

23 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Yeah they're not retiring. Nice try.

To be honest, they had me there for a good long while. I don't follow the meta of most shows I watch and I thought this might be a series finale. It wouldn't have been a bad one, to be perfectly fair.

Looking it up now: while the showrunner "debunked" a leak, that legends was already renewed, I'm inclined to believe that the initial leak was in fact correct. They would have to know by now and them saying "oh we don't know one way or the other" seems fishy.

 

[Lantern7]

2 hours ago, Zonk said:

Good thing Gary is an alien. I don't think anybody else could survive being spaced temporalzoned.

Didn't we see an Ava get yeeted earlier this season? I'm thinking Gary winds up with her. He'll be fine.

[legaleagle53]

3 hours ago, Zonk said:

Good thing Gary is an alien. I don't think anybody else could survive being spaced temporalzoned.

To be honest, they had me there for a good long while. I don't follow the meta of most shows I watch and I thought this might be a series finale. It wouldn't have been a bad one, to be perfectly fair.

Looking it up now: while the showrunner "debunked" a leak, that legends was already renewed, I'm inclined to believe that the initial leak was in fact correct. They would have to know by now and them saying "oh we don't know one way or the other" seems fishy.

 

There's still one episode left in the season, so this couldn't possibly have been any kind of finale.

[thuganomics85]

I can kind of see why the show might be preparing for a possible series ending here (although, I suspect The CW would actually let them know beforehand: they're usually better about that compared to most networks: at least with their longer running shows), but I still figured the retirement thing wasn't going to happen.  Still led to some interesting character moments here.

Definitely thought it was interesting that Zari and Astra weren't as thrilled as the others over the idea of a "normal life."  For Zari, even though I do think she is proud of her accomplishments as an influencer/socialite, the of truly being a hero really resinates with her, and she would find going back to her old ways to be a regression on some levels (even if it makes her a freaking billionaire.)  I also think it checks out that she would feel like she's in "the shadow" of OG Zari and will feel less accomplished because of that.  Tala Ashe really shined with all of this and I'm curious to see how this will affect her character going forward.

As for Astra, it also makes sense that the idea of never seeing the Legends again would hit her, because after being such a loner and even trying to avoid "officially" being part of the team/family, she really has become a Legend through and through, and the idea of it being taken away would be sad for her.  At least Spooner was able to figure out a temporary solution with her creating magical keys so the Legends can meet up once more, but even if they did retire, I imagine it would only last for so long.

Everyone else's future seemed to be inline with everything we know about them, but I did think it was a bit much that Sara and Ava didn't even get separate readings and just had to be connected and have it done together.  It sometimes feels like the show won't allow them to be separate characters anymore.

Gideon making a deal with Evil Gideon to be the new captain was a fun twist: although I suspect this alliance won't last for long once she finds out what Evil Gideon did to Gary!  Amy Louise Pemberton shined again as both versions of Gideon.

Glad they had Gwyn easily see through the Rob Alun scheme.

Heh, the meta joke about them having their "meetings" on Wednesdays at 8 p.m. (7 p.m. central!) only on the...

[Zonk]

8 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

There's still one episode left in the season, so this couldn't possibly have been any kind of finale.

The final episode could have totally been a "where are they now" ending, with them all meeting up in the mansion for a drink at the end. Plus, like I said, I don't follow the meta. A lot of shows have 12 episode seasons now.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Zonk

[appositival]

15 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Ava's Sara Jealousy would return if she were to get pregnant because of the donor sperm

Didn't the video show two little girls at the beginning? I thought they were young clones of Ava and Sara.

That would follow LoT logic, if you are a clone your child will be half-clone. Since Ava and Sara are both clones, their kids would be full clones.

[benteen]

Damn, that was a great series finale that wasn't a series finale.  It's hard to imagine how they will be able to do a real series finale that matches up to this one when that day comes but I trust Legends to deliver.

Very emotional episode.  The looks into the future and the characters celebrating their "retirement" was wonderful.  I was surprised to see Gideon save Alun but suspected he was a robot later on.  I'm curious to see how things play out next week.

Legends is like an old friend you don't want to say good-bye to.

Edited February 26, 2022 by benteen

[Lantern7]

Amusing thing about the whole "Legends Never Retire, But-" thing. DC Comics is going to run one-shot comics based on the Arrowverse. From the cover, it looks like "retired" Legends will be used. Take a look:

I just find it funny that it'll be mostly ex-Legends there, including one wielding another Legend's main weapon.

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 2/23/2022 at 10:30 PM, Lantern7 said:

Not to me. Also: did it look like Astra was running for President? I thought she was English. Of course, since she was raised in Actual Hell, I'm thinking the rules and regulations could be smudged.

I am not sure if there was enough to say that Astra was running for president as opposed to any other political office. It would be weird for a first-timer to aim for the White House without money, fame, connections, etc. 

I don't know if we know enough about Astra's background to know if she is a non-U.S. citizen. I remember that the show featured her mom, but don't remember any accent to indicate that Mom was British (though she could have been), and of course, even if Mom was British, Dad could have been American, which would make Astra American. Or even if Astra were British, she could have been physically born in America, making her an American citizen.