Book 8: Written in My Own Heart’s Blood

[Athena]

Short Synopsis: A lot of stuff happens in the 18th century and the 20th century. 

[Dejana]

The TV show leads got shout-outs in the book: a character named Heughan briefly appears and one of Ellen Fraser's middle names is revealed to be Caitriona.

[peacefrog]

Well I just wrote out all my thoughts on this and Lost it! 

 

I really loved this book, only read it once straight through and then spot read parts. I intend to read again in the next day or two if I can stop obsessing over all things tv series! I will post again at some point.

[WatchrTina]

This book is abbreviated "MOBY" in all of Diana's websites.  Does anyone know what that stands for?  It's been bugging me.  The only thing I can come up with is "My Own Blood, Y'all" but somehow I don't think that's right.  :)

[Athena]

This book is abbreviated "MOBY" in all of Diana's websites.  Does anyone know what that stands for?  It's been bugging me.  The only thing I can come up with is "My Own Blood, Y'all" but somehow I don't think that's right.  :)

 

I found the answer here. It's a joke on the pronunciation of the title's acronym. 

[peacefrog]

I'll try this again. My first impressions of MOBY.

 

I did not mind waiting for Jamie and Claire to see each other again after their brief reunion in ECHO.  When they did in the garden it was one of DG's best written scenes.  I did not feel that it was truly resolved though.  I thought Jamie leaving John with the Continentals a little rough but upon reflection he really did not have much choice nor did he know that John was called back into service.  Hey I guess this is in character(see DOA)!  I love how the dynamic in the Jamie/Claire/John triangle has shifted.  It seems like Claire might actually be able to put aside her "jealousy"(lack of a better word) John's feelings for Jamie, but now Jamie has to deal with it as well as what happened between Claire and John. The marriage and night of sexy times seemed to re-energize everything. 

 

I usually do not enjoy the battle scenes, find them necessary but tedious.  I did like the Monmouth battle here.  I think it might be the first one where all the major 18th century characters take part in, so that made the stakes higher for me.  Jamie here and actually in the whole book gets off pretty easy here with regards to physical injuries.  Seemed like Claire, Ian and Willie more than made up for that.  Also, how gross was John's eye injury?!

 

Poor Fergus, Marsali, Germaine, et al. What a sad, heartbreaking event to happen to Henri-Christan.  Another tough part was losing Rollo.

 

Roger and Bree's adventures were so exciting! I originally got into these books for the time travel angle and have been delighted as more and more info, rules, people who can have been revealed. I loved meeting Brian Fraser! Best part of the book! I really hope the tv show gets to here and we get to see these characters back!

 

This was a very funny book I found with heartbreaking and heartwarming moments. The end was perfect. Technically I thought it was the best written book, juggling 8 POV and 3 time periods!

Willie was better, but he still has some growing to do. I thought Jamie was written very strong in this book. 

 

Favorite scene: Bree meeting Brian Fraser.

[WatchrTina]

I struggled with parts of MOBY.  I don't like reading about children in jeopardy so Jem's situation at the beginning was very upsetting (don't get me started about his being left in that cave at the end of the last book!) and I just about came out of my chair when Fiona's wuss of a husband drove up to the house with the kids while the bad guys were waiting inside.  All was forgiven by me when I got to the happy scene at the end of the book when Jamie and Claire realize who has arrived.  But I will be well pissed if any of those douche-bags from 20th century find their way to Fraser's Ridge.

 

I'm a big fan of Lord John.  I give him props for coming right out and admitting to Jamie that he'd had carnal knowledge of his wife at the end of the last book, but damn that was some bad judgement on his part to admit that he was thinking about Jamie while making love to Claire.  Seriously John, couldn't you just say "we were drunk and grieving and it only happened once."  I have to remind myself that John still doesn't know Jamie was raped and tortured by Black Jack Randall.  If he did, I'm sure he'd tread more carefully.

 

I was so relieved when Jamie resigned his commission and I was equally relieved when Claire asked if they could please just go home now.  I was ready for them to get back to the Ridge.

 

I had already read the novella that tells the story of Roger's father's trip through the stones from his point of view so it was really nice to read it from Roger's point of view.

 

William.  Hmmm.  William continues to annoy and bore me. Must be the result of his privileged upbringing.  Jamie was much more interesting at that age. Oh well, at least he had one genuine experience with his Da, even if they were too late to save the girl.

 

On the medical front, Diana, needs to do a bit less research.  I was grossed out by more than one of Claire's cases.

Edited August 6, 2014 by WatchrTina

[peacefrog]

@WatchrTina I loved the Leaf On the Wind of All Hallows!  Did you read The Space Between? I liked that one also but not as much.

 

The medical procedures don't bother me, I really like them. :)

 

Jamie and Claire walking back up to the Ridge was awesome.  Adso's gift!

Edited August 6, 2014 by peacefrog

[WatchrTina]

Peacefrog yes I read it.  I enjoyed learning something of Jamie's step-daughter, Joan, and of Ian's son, Michael, but I found myself quite confused by the time-traveler in the story.  And for goodness sake does every women related to James Fraser have to be kidnapped at some point?  Even a nun?

Edited August 6, 2014 by WatchrTina

[Petunia846]

Roger and Bree's adventures were so exciting! I originally got into these books for the time travel angle and have been delighted as more and more info, rules, people who can have been revealed. I loved meeting Brian Fraser! Best part of the book! I really hope the tv show gets to here and we get to see these characters back!

Their story was really great in this book. The second "part" of the book, which was the first one that got back to Bree and Roger, I just could not put down. It was emotional and fascinating and I can't even count how many times I just gasped from the surprise. She did a really good job there. How heartbreaking was it when Brian saw Bree and Jem and thought it was Ellen and Willie, my goodness! So amazing.

 

I don't always mind the medical stuff in the books, but sometimes in this one it just seemed gratuitious, there were two at the end especially that seemed like they had little or no tie in to the plot of the rest of the book. They were a bit odd. The stuff with John's eye was gross, but also cool and felt like it fit into the plot as a whole.

 

One question I had when I finished this book was...does John now know that Claire is a time traveler? I got the sense that he was figuring it out in one of their conversations towards the end, but I wasn't sure. The implications of that should be interesting.

[WatchrTina]

 

does John now know that Claire is a time traveler?

Right after Claire marries John she asks him about it.  If I recall correctly she asks if Jamie told John "what we are."  He confirms that yes, Jamie told him.  Then she asks if he believes and he says something like "No I don't, but I shall, of course, behave as if I do."   So he's been told but he doesn't believe. This allows him to continue to dismiss her assurances that the British are, in fact, going to lose the war.

[Petunia846]

Oh, I vaguely remember that now. I was just thinking about towards the end, I think they were together in one of the camp tents and she used some vocabulary word and was like, 'oh yeah, but people don't use that word...yet..." and they kind of eyed each other. I really need to hurry up with my rereading so I can reread this book.

[peacefrog]

Actually, I thought it was Brianna who told John about the TT.  We did not read the actual conversation but I think in Echo, Claire said Brianna instead of Jamie.  I read all the books except MOBY through the library so I don't have a copy to check so I could be mistaken.  I wonder why did not get any actual conversation? It would have been a good scene.

[sosmitten]

I think this is the best thread for this, because it addresses the series as a whole.  I've been thinking a lot in the last week or so about the Outlander series in general, especially with respect to some of the things DG said in her Facebook chat last week.  In the books since Claire and Jamie left the ridge, I feel like there are more and more characters that we're tracking and I've been beginning to wonder what the overall story is that is being told.  For me the series has been Claire and Jamie's story.  In some ways it feels like WIMOHB could have been the last book.  (We know it isn't.  DG has said there will be a book nine AND she's sort of told us what the last scene will be and that hasn't happened yet.)

 

BUT, there was all sorts of craziness that happened at the end of Echo in the Bone and much of WIMOHB was spent wrapping up those loose ends.  We've been left in a pretty resolved place with the family reunited on the Ridge.  This book felt like a lot of closure.  I'm really curious where it's going next.  According to Diana, she doesn't plan her books.  From what she says it sounds like she knows what the final scene in the series will be but not how we're getting there.  It makes me wonder if Claire and Jamie's story is getting lost in trying to follow all of these other characters as they meander their way through the world.

 

I should say that I've enjoyed reading all of the books, in part because I love Claire and Jamie and in part because I really like a lot of the additional characters.  There were parts in this one that I got impatient with though, because I do find some of the other characters tiresome (William!!).  I do also find myself getting impatient when the so much of the book ends up dedicated to just a couple of days.  I felt the same impatience at the beginning of The Fiery Cross. 

 

I'm curious if other people had that same sense of this book, or even some of the other more recent books.

[Petunia846]

I definitely had that feeling as well. I've seen it happen with TV shows and book series many times...I fall in love with a pair or a small group of main characters, and then as the story goes on the author or writers feel the need to jazz things up with new "exciting" characters, and it always makes me angry, because it's not what I signed up for. I signed up for those characters that I fell in love with at the start of the series and I want those people's story told, not these others. So for me, these books should be Jamie and Claire's story first and foremost, and yes, I get impatient and irritated when there are plots that don't tie back to them and chapter upon chapter that doesn't have them in it at all.

 

The funny thing is, I've seen some people who felt that way about young Ian because he was taking time from Fergus, but I never even thought of that. Now that I hear the complaint, I can totally see it, but I didn't even notice it when I was reading. So weird how different things hit people differently. For me, in this book, the biggest irritation was the new young couples, I still like Ian, but the addition of Rachel, her brother, and Dottie just annoyed the hell out of me. I don't begrudge Ian finding someone and getting married, but I don't need quite so much info on her. Maybe if I had read all the novellas and the Lord John books I'd feel differently, but I've only read the eight main books, so Lord John's family has just shown up out of no where and taken over a large chunk of the plot, so I resent him for that, even though I've actually grown to like Lord John as a character after all. I did really enjoy the sections in this book with Roger and Bree and their adventures, which was a big change for me, so maybe if Diana just sticks with things, I'll eventually come around.

 

I think the problem for me is that her plotting style is not the way I like to plot stories. It's not wrong or bad, it's just different. I like a good hero's journey, the circular kind of plot where one main character goes on adventures, grows, and then comes back full circle as a changed person, while she seems to be much more meandering. I don't know if it's that they're historical fiction or not, but they almost feel like reading about history from a text book (in the plotting sense)...one event after another and you never fully see things come full circle so that the characters can reflect on what they've learned or whatever. In more than one book it got to the end and I could never figure out what was supposed to be the climax of the story. Now that I've listened to interviews where Diana talks about her writing, I can see that that is just her style and I can put my annoyance aside and just get on with things, but the annoyance is still there and I wish she would give us more time with Jamie and Claire (and them together in the same place, please) before all of this wraps up.

[Pestilentia]

I like a good hero's journey, the circular kind of plot where one main character goes on adventures, grows, and then comes back full circle as a changed person, while she seems to be much more meandering. I don't know if it's that they're historical fiction or not, but they almost feel like reading about history from a text book (in the plotting sense)...one event after another and you never fully see things come full circle so that the characters can reflect on what they've learned or whatever. In more than one book it got to the end and I could never figure out what was supposed to be the climax of the story.

While I completely understand what you mean, maybe it's like life in that things simply aren't that clear.

I know that in my own life such full circle moments have occurred but not until decades after the initiating event.

Hindsight becomes much more clear after very long lengths of time have passed- it's only after the true destination is reached that one can really see where the forks in the road occurred and how actions taken many years ago finally played out.

I fully expect that when I read the final page of the final book I will say "Oh- so that's what it all meant." It may well be the final conversation held during the final dinner that wraps things up in the manner you expect.

 

In other words you can't figure out "the climax of the story" because it isn't over yet.

It's not time.

[peacefrog]

I actually thought MOBY had a whole lot more of Jamie and Claire than usual. I love the different POVs. Do I like each individual one? No. I do wish at times when reading that we would get back to another one that I like more. I thought in this book the POV's were much more cohesive than earlier books. William still bugs me the most out of all of them.

I think with this book we need to look at the prologue to see why Rachel and Dottie were given more time in the book. (I love all the prologues) I did not care for Dottie and could have done with much less.

I am very curious to see what the next book deals with. What would you all say is the overall themes of the books? I'm hoping to get the time travel explanation, who can do it, why, more rules, etc. Does anyone think the Grey family may have time travelers?

I've heard it said that this is the story of a long, enduring marriage. While that seems to be true, I also think it's actually the story of marriage in general and all the types there are and what stage they are in, how people deal with extreme obstacles as well as day to day issues.

[Petunia846]

While I completely understand what you mean, maybe it's like life in that things simply aren't that clear.

I know that in my own life such full circle moments have occurred but not until decades after the initiating event.

Hindsight becomes much more clear after very long lengths of time have passed- it's only after the true destination is reached that one can really see where the forks in the road occurred and how actions taken many years ago finally played out.

I fully expect that when I read the final page of the final book I will say "Oh- so that's what it all meant." It may well be the final conversation held during the final dinner that wraps things up in the manner you expect.

 

In other words you can't figure out "the climax of the story" because it isn't over yet.

It's not time.

I see what you're saying, but no, I do feel like even in a series every book should have some kind of climax. I was thinking specifically of the book where Breanna ends up shooting Bonnet and we don't know if he's alive or dead. I forget which book that was...one of the middle ones. I think part of what happens with these books is that they're so long, they're actually like several books in one, so there are so many plot lines that there have to be several different climaxes (this is starting to sound dirty...) and then I feel a little lost about what the main point of the book was...but, like I said, that's not necessarily bad, that's just the style that Diana has developed and this is the first time I've read books like that, so it's a little jarring for me.

 

The first few books were pretty well structured, in my opinion. It was more in the middle books that things got a little loosy-goosy. This book, the most recent one felt better to me, structure-wise. While there were several things that wrapped up some of the plots, I felt like the main climax was Jamie and William going together to try to save that girl. That scene pulled together a lot of the different plots lines and character development arcs...Jamie's in regard to his feelings about William, William's in dealing with the girls, William's in dealing with his feelings about Jamie, William's in trying to find his own place in the world after leaving the army, and probably more I'm forgetting. While it was sad, I thought that was a really great part of the book.

I actually kind of like William, or I guess I'm willing to try to like William, knowing that he's going to grow on me as he keeps developing. (Although I did wonder why he was constantly getting lost there for awhile. I was like, get that poor kid the astrolabe, or at the very least a compass!)

 

I thought in this book the POV's were much more cohesive than earlier books.

I would agree with that.

I've heard it said that this is the story of a long, enduring marriage. While that seems to be true, I also think it's actually the story of marriage in general and all the types there are and what stage they are in, how people deal with extreme obstacles as well as day to day issues.

That certainly seems to be what it's turning into.

[auntlada]

But I will be well pissed if any of those douche-bags from 20th century find their way to Fraser's Ridge.

 

The good thing about that is that if they do, Jamie, Roger and Brianna (because she might actually be the one to shoot them) can take care of them without worrying about the law.

 

Thank goodness I finally finished the book and can come into this thread.

[WatchrTina]

I agree that one might actually think the ending of MOBY was the end of the series, what with the joyful imminent reuniting of the two main family groups in the final scene.  That was certainly a big contrast to the multiple cliff-hangers that marked the end of the last book (and I have to say I’m still pretty pissed at Herself for leaving Jem locked in a dark cave all those years between books.)  I’m glad to hear that Diana has said there is more to come and that doesn’t surprise me at all because there are a number of plot lines to be resolved. 

 

 

Warning, wild-ass speculation ahead.  Proceed at your own risk.  I might actually get something right.

 

I have been worried from the moment Jamie was given his land grant that some asshole with an attorney was going to point out that Jamie is a Catholic and thus is technically prohibited from receiving a land grant in that state.  I can’t cite the book right now but I know that this was mentioned and I live in fear that that plot point is going to come back to haunt them.  Then again – I’ve already worked out the solution, which is for Jamie to gift the estate to Brianna & Roger.  I always assumed that is why Diana went to such pains to create a situation where they had to be very publicly married by a Protestant minister.  And of course Roger was nearly ordained as a Protestant minister so no one could possibly accuse him of being a secret Catholic.

 

 

I’m absolutely convinced that Master Raymond and another person from book two are going to show up again via time-travel.  I can’t say who because the second name would be a spoiler if you have not read the Outlander novella “The Space In Between.”  But I’m pretty sure our happy family is going to meet up with them.  Jem & Mandy’s special skills may come into play when that happens.

 

I predict Fergus’ long-lost aristocratic relatives are going to turn up again and they are definitely up to no good. 

 

 

William’s story has to be resolved.  He has to find his cousin (who, it seems clear, is not really dead) and reunite him with his wife.  Then he has to make peace with his biological father, come to appreciate his half-sister and her children, and then get over his bastard-dom, go home to England, be the Earl, and marry well so he can fulfill the prophecy that a descendant of the Fraser of Lovat will sit on the English throne.  I’m convinced William is an ancestor of Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon – better known as Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother.  I think Prince Harry owes his red hair to his many-times-great-grandfather Jamie.

 

And, oh yeah, the Americans need to win the war.

Edited August 15, 2014 by WatchrTina

[sosmitten]

Lovely speculation.  I love this:

 

I think Prince Harry owes his red hair to his many-times-great-grandfather Jamie.

 

Can I just share that I'm one of the seemingly few who doesn't care a bit if we ever see Master Raymond again?  I know that this is already a book about time travel, so a little 'magic' shouldn't be too out of place, but the whole blue glow thing is too much for me.

 

I'm glad that your speculation didn't include too much about Lord John's inlaws.  I like his character a lot, but I care not at all about his brother's family.

[auntlada]

I predict Fergus’ long-lost aristocratic relatives are going to turn up again and they are definitely up to no good. 

 

Is Percival's name really Beauchamp? I've been wondering if Fergus' long-lost relatives (if they really are) are Beauchamps, and if so, if they are Claire's ancestors -- and if Fergus is one of her ancestors, if he actually went to France and became part of the family, or took back the title or whatever (assuming he survives the French Revolution).

[Glaze Crazy]

I will admit, when I got to the end of this book my first reaction was Noooooo!  I wasn't happy that Brianna, Roger and the kids went back after what it took for them to go forward, which I still believe is where they belong.  After thinking about it a while (and re-reading) I started to consider the bigger picture of what this book (and the last part of Echo) might be trying to show, which is, in part, about the extended family that has gathered around the main characters. 

 

When Claire gets back to Philadelphia (in Echo) she realizes that although Jem and Maggie are "gone" she still has Fergus and Marsali's kids, the rest of her grandchildren.  When Ian and Rachel pair up, that adds both her and her brother, who no longer have any living family members of their own.  William now knowing about and maybe starting to make the effort to (re)connect with Jamie (that he knew as Mac), plus he brings the little girl to them and they take her in without any hesitation.  Jenny's there now, so it makes sense that Brianna's family should come back (for a little bit anyway) and make it a complete family.  That John, Hal and William are trying to gather up their missing family member is a similar theme.  That they are also connected to Claire and Jamie at several points add them into the extended family dynamic, in a way.

 

It was the scene in the kitchen in Charleston, where they are talking about why people say frog legs taste like chicken and Claire is about to get into the physical reason and everyone else starts laughing and groaning is where I could hear a real family at that table.

[Athena]

I finally finished the book this week. I've found most of the books a bit overindulgent and after Voyager, they are all a blur for me. I can't remember which book is which. So much has happened! 

 

On a critical side, I agree that William is not interesting to me. There was far too much time spent on his emo angst. I get it, he's a bastard. It's not a surprise that when he is talking to the regular characters such as John, Jamie or Claire, he is a lot more bearable. In his own narrative, he was almost insufferable. Brianna was better in this instalment. I loved the Brian Fraser moment. I didn't mind the medical moments. What bothered me is when Buck told Roger about what happened with Geillis, his own mother. Ew. 

 

I do feel there is padding in these books. I'm actually less interested in some of the characters than I use to be, but on the whole, I am still attached to the Fraser clan. I really enjoyed the ending when they were at the Ridge. I do think this is ultimately a series about marriages, love, and family in extreme circumstances. The ending felt so good that I look forward to the next one which undoubtedly will have upheaval. 

[sosmitten]

I like all the speculation and theories about what these books are about.  I'm curious what DG would say if she were asked what they were about.  Or maybe she has answered that somewhere that I'm not aware of.

[nodorothyparker]

William's problem is very much the same problem Brianna had in the third and most of the fourth books:  The character is less a fully developed character in his own right than he is a collection of Jamie's traits that we're waiting to see reconcile with his father.  It took several books for Brianna to really move beyond that.  That said, I can appreciate why he spends most of the book righteously pissed off.  Everyone he knows as family has kept it from him while apparently everyone else who's ever laid eyes on him or Jamie already knows.  Also, being a bastard was very much a huge thing at this time (consider how everyone at Lollybroch breathed an audible sigh of relief that Brianna was the product of Jamie's legal marriage), especially in a time period when army rank was purchased for you and tied to family connections and for someone whose entire identity had been based on being the very privileged only son and heir.  He's still basically a decent person and you can see the influences of both John and "Mac" on him, so his evolution feels organic.

 

John was stupid as someone else has already said stating things as he did and not saying yeah, we were beyond drunk and grieving and things got out of hand.  I find myself siding with Hal more often than not in his equal parts amusement and annoyance with John, like when he commented on what a fascinating life John had led coming to the rescue of Jamie's widow by marrying her and raising his illegitimate son for him for the last 15 years.  He obviously has a fair idea of what John's about.

 

Beyond needing some trimming, this book had more of the same issue that's plagued the last couple.  We can get pages and pages of medical procedures that seem to not be tied to anything else in the story or a fight over a mule, but then really important conversations are happening off page.  Claire acknowledges all the way back in Voyager that it's a huge thing that Jamie never told his sister or any of the family about Willie or what happened in England, yet here Jennie sails into the Philadelphia house already having been filled in and being just being fine with it all.  John was told off page about Claire and Brianna being time travelers.   In earlier books, we never got to see Jamie acknowledge William to Brianna.  It robs a lot of interactions of their power.

Edited August 25, 2014 by nodorothyparker

[auntlada]

 

John was told off page about Claire and Brianna being time travelers.

 

I'm so glad you said this. I thought maybe I just didn't remember that happening in the last book, which I have not read as much because I couldn't stand the suspense at the ending.

[thingamajig]

 

 

 

I'm so glad you said this. I thought maybe I just didn't remember that happening in the last book, which I have not read as much because I couldn't stand the suspense at the ending.

 

I didn't bother to reread the previous book before this one this time (I usually do when the new ones are published) and this was the one thing that almost made me go back and skim the book again to try and figure out when that happened.  Glad to know I didn't actually forget it.

[jzygayle]

Short Synopsis: A lot of stuff happens in the 18th century and the 20th century. 

 

I didn't think that much happened in the 20th century in this book.

[Athena]

I didn't think that much happened in the 20th century in this book.

 

Ha. I concur actually, but when I was making these topics, I hadn't finished Book 8 and secondly, I was running out of short synopsis descriptions.  

[WatchrTina]

Rob F**king Cameron is what happened in the 20th century.  Him and Fiona's wuss of a husband who nearly delivers Jem and Mandy into Rob's hands.  I'm glad there was so little of the 20th century in this book because I was annoyed the whole time.  I sincerely hope that Rob and his crew cannot time-travel because if one of those 20th century douchebags shows up at Frasers' Ridge I will not be best pleased.

Edited September 3, 2014 by WatchrTina

[nodorothyparker]

I didn't bother to reread the previous book before this one this time (I usually do when the new ones are published) and this was the one thing that almost made me go back and skim the book again to try and figure out when that happened.  Glad to know I didn't actually forget it.

 

Brianna actually told Lord John about the time travel all the way back at the end of Breath of Snow and Ashes after she accidentally found out about William.  Jamie and Claire told Jennie and family at Lollybroch about the time travel in Echo during their visit there to warn the relatives living in France about the coming French Revolution.  In both cases, we're told it happened but it's otherwise off page, so no reaction no discussion about it.  Which kind of sucks for a series where time travel figures so largely into the plot.

[thingamajig]

In both cases, we're told it happened but it's otherwise off page, so no reaction no discussion about it.  Which kind of sucks for a series where time travel figures so largely into the plot.

Yeah, I don't like that.  I could have done with, say, a less-detailed description of amputating a leg to make room for more character moments.

[nodorothyparker]

Maybe it belongs in the Breath of Snow and Ash thread, but I'm still pissed that we're told Jamie and Brianna talked about the William reveal but we never saw it.  That's kind of a huge deal to find out you have another sibling that was basically raised under your nose, especially in light of the story she'd been given about her parents' epic love and all the years they spent pining for each other.  I would have loved to have seen that conversation far more than yet another 18-century medical procedure brought to you by home-brewed penicillin.

[WatchrTina]

 

I'm still pissed that we're told Jamie and Brianna talked about the William reveal but we never saw it.

I'm okay with it because I think I understand what Diana is doing.  She does the same thing in the first book when Claire finally tells Jamie the truth about being a time-traveler.  We don't hear the conversation because we don't need to -- we already know it all.  We don't need to hear it re-hashed.  I presume that is why we don't "hear" the conversation when the same information is imparted to John Gray or the family at Lallybroch, and we don't "hear" the conversation when Jamie tells Brianna about William.  We know enough to imagine how that went and that's okay by me.

 

On the other hand -- I could have done without knowing what a fistula is or just how horrible life can be if you are suffering from one following a really bad, two-young, unsuccessful episode of childbirth.  I'm still feeling rather resentful at having been subjected to those gory details.

[Petunia846]

Except in Outlander, we don't necessarily hear all the dialogue of Claire telling Jamie she's a time traveler, but we do hear some, and more importantly we get to "witness" their physical interactions...she's shaking, he's holding her, etc. And then that conversation has a huge impact on their interaction with each other from there out.

 

If I remember it's kind of similar with the admission of time-travelerness at Lallybroch, where we get some of the reaction emotion. I can't remember exactly what it was, but I think they were pretty shocked and quiet and a little stand-offish. I may be totally wrong, I'm feeling too lazy to look it up at the moment, but the point is that we did get some of that "stuff" that surrounds big conversations. You're right, I don't need the dialouge, but as a reader I live for the emotional fall out, the descriptions of how feelings and behavior change, how the conversation made everyone feel.

 

With the Bree/Jamie conversation about William (again, correct me if I'm wrong...) we didn't get it like that, there was just nothing. (Or if it wasn't nothing, it was some comment so small that I can't remember it at all.)

 

Totally agree with you on your last point though! Ugg. And to make matters worse I cannot figure out any way in which that ties in with any of the bajillion storylines that were going on at the time.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Petunia846

[Pestilentia]

I like the gooshy medical stuff [/small voice]

[Petunia846]

I like it/am okay with it...when it fits with the plot. I don't really care for anything that doesn't advance the plot somehow. I'm rereading Dragonfly in Amber right now, for example, and last night I skipped over two pages where she was just talking about that bag piper guy who plays with his eyes closed. Lovely writing, interesting glimpse of one person, sets the mood a bit, but I wanted to get back to what was actually happening.

[thingamajig]

I skim/skip a lot when I'm rereading the books.

[Pestilentia]

And I have to force myself to read very slowly to prolong the enjoyment.

My tendency is to rush through to get to the good parts, but then when I am done I am sorry I did that.

[nodorothyparker]

The medical stuff is certainly interesting from a historical standpoint, but there's just so freaking much of it and it often doesn't serve any plot purpose other than to remind us again of how very brilliant and inventive Claire is.   Your mileage may vary, I suppose.  I read and reread for character interactions, and when you introduce huge things like a secret child or time travel from another century in one book and delay payoff until two or three books later I naturally want to see reactions and fallout from that.

[Kat From Jersey]

 

I have to remind myself that John still doesn't know Jamie was raped and tortured by Black Jack Randall.  If he did, I'm sure he'd tread more carefully.

 

John does know something evil of the sort happened to Jamie, but he's not sure to what extent, or by whom.  He realizes it after a heated conversation with Jamie in one of the Lord John books; I believe it may be The Scottish Prisoner.

 

Anyway, MOBY.  I adore this book!  Adore!  A friend turned me on to the series, but she said that she liked the books less and less as the series went on, too many characters, etc.  I'm just the opposite, and tend to love the books more and more as the series goes on.  As for too many characters, I'll admit that sometimes the miscellaneous tertiary characters can be confusing (especially the ones with similar sounding Scottish names), but Herself writes the secondary and tertiary characters so well.  They're all so fully fleshed out.  In fact, John Quincy Meyers is one of my absolute favorite characters in all of the series, and he's only featured quite minimally.

 

I adore Rachel and Denny Hunter, love Rachel and Ian's relationship (sniff, Rollo!), love Dottie and Denny together, and the fact that she became a Quaker for him.  Their wedding night scenes, with the addition of Jamie and Claire's 'reunion', were some of the best writing Diana has done, imo.  I love Hal, John's brother; in fact, as a fan of the Lord John series, I already know and love John's family.  I've actually come to really like William as a character, and enjoyed his (mis)adventures in this story.  I can't wait to see his and Jamie's relationship progress in the final book(s).  I like that he now suspects that Jamie is indeed an honorable man, and that being a 'traitor/outlaw' isn't a black and white situation.  Sure, he can be a hotheaded, immature douche, but I think he's growing as a character.  He's just so British about everything.  I think his character really illustrates the difference in the mindset between the English and the Rebels/Colonists/Americans.

 

Poor John!  Things went from bad to worse for him, but he always has a way of coming out on top.  I can only hope that, by the end of the series, he's found someone to love, who can love him back, because, come on, it will never, ever happen between him and Jamie.  Percy Beauchamp intrigues me (we get his back story in the LJ book "Brotherhood of the Blade"), and I'm sure we haven't seen the last of him; he and John have a very interesting history together, to say the least!

 

The goings-on with the modern-day MacKenzie's of Lallybroch (not to mention poor Roger and Buck) had me on the edge of my seat.  It took me a while to warm up to Bree, but now I love her.  As Roger said, “one couldn’t overlook the buffalo-hunting, turkey-shooting, goddess-huntress, pirate-killing side” of her.  And the Jem/Mandy connection is very intriguing.  And even though things seem to have worked out for the family, I can’t imagine that we’ve seen the last of Rob Effing Cameron.  In fact, I'm predicting Rob will end up being a Traveler, show up in the past eventually, and will have something to do with trying to prevent the Fraser Prophecy, or similar.  At any rate, although the family had to go back to the future due to Mandy's illness, I've always thought they belong back in the past.

  

I'm not generally one for battle scenes in books, but these were well-done.  I guess the fact that the War action is now in New Jersey and Pennsylvania is a plus for me, since I live in Central NJ, and not far from where the Battle of Monmouth was fought.  Plus, New Hope, PA (formerly Coryell’s Ferry) is one of my favorite towns.  It’s now a cool artsy community on the Delaware River (although with lots of historical “Washington Slept Here” buildings still in existence).

 

 

Is Percival's name really Beauchamp? I've been wondering if Fergus' long-lost relatives (if they really are) are Beauchamps, and if so, if they are Claire's ancestors -- and if Fergus is one of her ancestors, if he actually went to France and became part of the family, or took back the title or whatever (assuming he survives the French Revolution).

 

No, Percy married into the Beauchamp family.  His actual name is Wainwright.  He's the son of a poor preacher, who's definitely come up in the world!  I'm intrigued with his involvement in the overall arc of the story.  Claire may or may not be related to the rest of the Beauchamps and/or Fergus.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Kat From Jersey

[peacefrog]

I did love this book. Funny I had started to re-read just prior to the show airing and finished the first part. I just can't pick it up though during the show's current run! Hopefully that will change when the hiatus starts.

In reading your thoughts I could not help feeling how jarring it is to think about MOBY storylines while I am immersed in the show! I have felt that way when I go back to the start of the series after reading the later books. Like you I enjoy the later books much more but I am thrilled by the show.

Maybe we can have a read along during the hiatus if people are up to it?

[Athena]

Maybe we can have a read along during the hiatus if people are up to it?

 

Great idea! I can even set up a poll and post, but it takes awhile to read these books. I will ponder it and people can post here or PM me about ideas. Thanks.  

[Linderhill]

 

the fact that the War action is now in New Jersey and Pennsylvania is a plus for me, since I live in Central NJ, and not far from where the Battle of Monmouth was fought.

I was ticked by this development too since I grew up in central Jersey and the Battle of Monmouth was a major part of our elementary history education.  Old Tenant Church and the story of Molly Pitcher were a huge part of this.  You can still go to the church and see a piece of the pew with blood stains.  Its funny with this book I was a lot more invested with the battle scenes because of my background.  I find myself tempted to read up on the battle all over again to see what I might have missed as a child.  I do wonder if Washington's legendary voyage over the Delaware on Christmas Eve will play a part in the next book.

 

I did find myself extremely annoyed with William thru a lot of the book and wished he'd just grow up.  Technically he is not a bastard since the laws of the time say that he is the legal son of his mother and her husband and there is no other heir clamoring to take away his title.  I do wish that we had found out more about Dottie and Denzell's baby and whatever happened to cousin Benjamin and what will happen to Aramantha and her child now that the senior Greys have found her.

 

I too was pretty grossed out learning about what fistula was and all of its complications.  I found myself wishing we could find out more about poor Tench and his recovery form the tarring and amputation as opposed to this poor underaged slave.  

 

It was interesting to see how Claire's recovery from her wound and rape was effecting her.  I guess we'll have to wait until the next book to find what Jamie did to the Fat Lumpkin and all the rest.

[Petunia846]

The last chapter of this book makes me cry every single time I read it. I never do that. It's the moment when Roger yells, "Hello the house," that breaks me. Part of me hates that she ended it there, but it is quite a testament to the world she's created that such sparse prose can mean so much. </randomness>

Edited September 17, 2014 by Petunia846

[Daisychain]

I was a bit resentful about the lag time between books and the length and under-editing (I was also waiting for the most recent George RR Martin with the same qualities).  Then I just couldn't help it -- I got sucked into the whole thing.  I do wish there was less medicine and more follow-through on the patients, who were so very well but briefly drawn!  I listened to some of the sadder parts on Audible and was very embarrassed to be jogging about town with tears running down my face.  I am also a NJ-ite from Monmouth County (New Monmouth or Belford) so I loved that stuff.  It was engaging to see a view of the charismatic Washington -- that bit gets lost behind all the portraits I think.  He was a boss on the battlefield.  My family has also vacationed in Ocracoke for 25 years, so I am 2 for 8 books!

 

Good grief, I just looked it up -- Washington was younger than (admittedly fictional) Jamie, right?  Washington was only 46 at the Battle of Monmouth.  Holy cow.

[Keeta]

Roger and Bree's adventures were so exciting! I originally got into these books for the time travel angle and have been delighted as more and more info, rules, people who can have been revealed. I loved meeting Brian Fraser! Best part of the book! I really hope the tv show gets to here and we get to see these characters back!

 

I agree, this was my favorite part of the book. I was getting annoyed at the first section, which just felt like contrived situations to delay the reunion of Claire and Jamie. A lot going on and a lot of running around, but not much really happening, imo.  But then when Roger went through the stones and realized he'd gone further back to 1739, that made me sit up and take notice. 

 

The whole part about the Battle of Monmouth was pretty good, except I felt like there were too many fortuitous/coincidental character meetings, everyone running into everyone else during this battle...

 

William's character development is slowly coming along. I'm pretty much (impatiently) waiting for him to calm down so he can develop a relationship with Jamie.

 

I thought the wedding scenes were really well done. And what a great ending!

[Keeta]

One more thing: is it just me, or is anyone else getting a little tired of Lord John? I just don't find him that interesting, and he seems to have so many scenes...

[nodorothyparker]

I like Lord John a lot but he has a spinoff series for a reason.  I can only care about so much about most of his or his brother's intrigues and eventually hit a point where I'm skimming a lot if they're not interacting with the Frasers.   I know they're important because they're part of Jamie's backstory and they're William's family too, but they've eaten a lot of the last two books.