Book 6: A Breath of Snow and Ashes

[Athena]

Short Synopsis: Life on the eve of the American Revolution continues to be tense for the Frasers. Jamie is asked by the Governor to unite the backcountry for the King and Crown.

[peacefrog]

This is probably my favorite book in the series. We get more of Roger and his internal struggles and his growing relationship with Jamie.  Bree shows she can adapt to the 18th century yet her and Roger still struggle in their relationship but they continue to work at it.   We get more of Fergus and Marsali.  I love Fergus but my girl crush is for Marsali!  I love her! I also think their kids are hysterical.

 

There is crazy violence again.  This time Claire suffers and it's rough.  However, her whole abduction sequence was riveting. By the time we hear the Roger's bohdran my heart was pounding.  I think I started the sequence late at night, one of those just one more chapters before I turn in and I could not put it down until I saw the resolution.  I was so worried for Marsali as well!

[Petunia846]

Yeah, this was a rough book for Claire, she also almost died of the fever or whatever and they got carted off for trial for murder and stoned and all that. Crazy times. I don't know what it says about me, but for all that, this is one of my favorites of the books. Might be my favorite, but I feel like I read through them really fast, so I need to read them again and digest things better. Plus I just started them all one after the other, so I tend to lose track of where one started and ended. I do remember closing this one at the end and thinking it was very good though.

 

This book is also one of the longest I think. Outlander is so short (comparitively) and they have 16 episodes, I wonder if they'll get more episodes per season when they start to tackle the longer books or if they'll have to take stuff out. (Because there's not a question in my mind of the show being successful and making it however many seasons are needed to get to Breath of Snow and Ashes.)

[WatchrTina]

 

By the time we hear the Roger's bohdran my heart was pounding.

Oh my gosh yes -- that was one of the most evocative scenes in the whole series. You could practically feel the kidnappers hear the drum and realize that death was coming for them.

[auntlada]

Apparently, I need to read this one again. I don't remember any of that.

[WatchrTina]

You know I actually enjoy bagpipe music but for me it's generally a happy sound (except for the bagpiper I heard in Central Park playing Amazing Grace at Princess Diana's memorial -- that just destroyed me.)  This book makes it clear that the bagpipes and bohdran played during battle are intended to strike fear in the hearts of the enemy -- like that helicopter playing "Ride of the Valkyries" in Apocalypse Now.  I really hope we get to hear the sound of battle pipes and bohdran in this show.  They've done their research on the proper way to wear a belted plaid. They're teaching the cast Gaelic.  I feel certain they can find someone who knows what Highland battle music sounded like during the rising and we'll get to hear it.

[Petunia846]

Apparently, from what he's said on his blog, Bear McCreary has been obsessed with Scottish music since high school and is super excited to have an outlet for everything he's learned about it over the years, so I'm sure he'll know exactly what to do with scenes like that.

[CatMack]

I just got to the part of the book that confirms Bree shot Bonnet in the balls.  Atta girl.

[Tif]

I just finished my re-read of this. There is so much that happens in this book that it is hard to keep track.

[Petunia846]

I just got to the part of the book that confirms Bree shot Bonnet in the balls.  Atta girl.

Yeah, but then I was screaming at her when she just let him wander away without seeing whether he died or not.

[CatMack]

Well, to be fair, I don't think they were really armed for a fight.  Bonnet may very well have had any number of blades on himself, and at that point they all (at least Claire and quite possibly Bree) knew his reputation for knowing how to use them.  Even if Bree had everything she needed to reload the pistol, it takes time, and he'd have gotten a good lead by then and if he wasn't mortally wounded could have still been very dangerous to confront, and making sure her family was safe was priority #1.  Yeah, it would have been nice to see more of an effort to immediately hunt him down, but without sufficient weaponry or backup I can understand why letting him hobble off and getting everyone else back to safety was the decided course of action.

[nodorothyparker]

I have such a love-hate relationship with this book.  By the time we get this far into the series, I am so over all the book rapeyness that I just almost can't anymore.  And while I find Tom Christie an interesting character in his own right and rather enjoy the different perspective on Jamie that he provides, I cannot stand his incestuous kids in any way, shape, or form or any of the storylines that include them.  The Presbyterian story that will not end tires me, as does the decision to take in a bunch of settlers that are going to treat you and your family with suspicion and religious derision. 

 

On the other hand, I find the resolution of the Stephen Bonnet story quite effective and poignant.  I truly love the reintroduction of William and Lord John, even if it aggravates me that so much relevant conversation between Brianna and Jamie about it seemed to happen off page.  And while I don't particularly like Donner, I do like the reminder that time travel can be a really risky proposition and that not everyone who does it can easily integrate themselves into wherever they end up. Claire and then Brianna and Roger really lucked out with Jamie.

Edited October 8, 2014 by nodorothyparker

[Petunia846]

Well, to be fair, I don't think they were really armed for a fight.  Bonnet may very well have had any number of blades on himself, and at that point they all (at least Claire and quite possibly Bree) knew his reputation for knowing how to use them.  Even if Bree had everything she needed to reload the pistol, it takes time, and he'd have gotten a good lead by then and if he wasn't mortally wounded could have still been very dangerous to confront, and making sure her family was safe was priority #1.  Yeah, it would have been nice to see more of an effort to immediately hunt him down, but without sufficient weaponry or backup I can understand why letting him hobble off and getting everyone else back to safety was the decided course of action.

I always thought she should try to follow at a safe distance, use those tracking skills from hunting, and see where he ended up. If they weren't willing to do that I would have aimed for the head. Maybe that's just because I was so ready to be done with Bonnet and his story. I understand the sentiment of what she did, but...no. 

[WatchrTina]

 

The Presbyterian story that will not end tires me, as does the decision to take in a bunch of settlers that are going to treat you and your family with suspicion and religious derision.

Weel, I have a wee theory about that.  Remember when Jamie was granted the land there was this whole bit about them ignoring the fact that he is a Catholic.  I've been worried ever since then that that is going to come back to haunt them but I've also speculated that the solution will be to gift Fraser's Ridge to the unimpeachably protestant Roger.  The presence of a bunch of additional protestants as tenants on the land will help to support their case if some asshole with an attorney ever tries to create a problem for Jamie and his band of stinking papists.

Edited October 9, 2014 by WatchrTina

[CatMack]

Finished the book tonight.

 

For the majority of this book, and really the last one as well, I had this feeling in the back of my brain.  Like, I get that they're older and want to have their family and be settled and they deserve that.  But reading so many tedious every day mundane life scenes was such a slog at times, I just wanted stuff to happen.  And then the end of this book happened and the family is separated and Claire's surgery got destroyed and then the whole house burned down and suddenly it was like I was wrong I take it back please just let them be happy poor Claire and Jamie.

 

I'm more excited for the next few books now than I have been since midway through Drums of Autumn.  It just feels like the ball is rolling again.  I do want them to have their family and have peace, but at the same time there's only so much peace you can read about before you start to fall asleep.  As much as I don't want to see them keep getting tortured (literally or metaphorically) they were too settled on the Ridge for the last few books.  It was too stagnant.  I'm ready for some movement again. 

[kieyra]

(Haven't read the book, but the title caught my eye because it's like an intentional play on "a song of ice and fire". )

[mybabyaidan]

So I am re reading this one now...and am noticing some little things that I think I skimmed over before.  Did anyone else notice some weird little...I don't even know how to put this...shifts from Diana in this one?  It was almost as if she tried a few different writing techniques out in a few places.  It was kind of..not exactly jarring, but enough to make me notice.   And I don't mean the different character perspectives, we have had that before.   Anyone else notice this, or am I crazy?

[Kiwi]

I finally finished this book today. It seemed to take me a long time to get through this one, but I think that was mainly due to life getting in the way not because I found it hard going. In fact, I think after the first two books this is my third favourite book. The story advanced quite a bit and there seemed to me to be more chapters where it was told from Claire's POV rather than someone else's.

 

While I hated when Bonnet raped Brianna and thought it was unnecessary for the story, I didn't feel the same way when Claire was attacked when the Browns kidnapped her. Sure it was horrible and hard to read but there was chapter after chapter when we were solely in Claire's head and it was riveting. I could not wait for Jamie to come and avenge her. To me it was more like the first two books, where you didn't know what Jamie was up to but knew something was going to happen. For all its awfulness it was intense reading it. Unlike Brianna and Bonnet it doesn't seem to have dragged on, I am sure Claire has PTSD, or something from it, but at least they were all killed so she can get on with her life. I am glad Bonnet is dead and that he will not be making another appearance, I am over him and his story. 

 

There was a lot of Ian in this book too which is always a good thing. Same with Fergus. Those two are my favourite secondary characters apart from some of the highlanders in the first two books.

 

Bring on book 7. I do like where this one left off, Brianna reading Jamie's letter made my heart skip.

 

Please let this series continue to the end of the books, it is too good not to. There are so many  moments I want to see translated on screen.

[Dust Bunny]

Insanely random question, considering this is the day after the finale and all its discussion thereof. (And maybe a little distraction is ok). This is a sort of an "All Book" question, but I'm currently on my first re-read (i.e. second reading) of BoSaA, so I'll put it here. (It's not a Book v. Show question.)

I just came across the word "hedgehog" in the book. Is there an inside joke or something that a hedgehog needs to be mentioned in each book?

Edited May 31, 2015 by Dust Bunny

[WatchrTina]

If there is an inside joke I don't know It (though there is an adorable photo of Sam holding a bunch of ceramic critters, including a hedgehog, out there on the internet -- google "Sam Heughan hedgehog" and you'll find it.)  I think what you are experiencing is Diana's habit of re-using certain words, metaphors and situations.  The one I always notice is her habit of describing Claire curled up in bed "like a shrimp."  (I think it's a terrible similitude so I notice it each time.)  She was similarly fond of repeatedly describing Jamie's short hair in the first book as "sticking up like a hedgehog" after he runs his hands through it.

[Dust Bunny]

Very true about her repeating phrases and descriptions. I just didn't know if there was a special story about hedgehogs, since they are such random - and cute - animals. Her contextual use of them as allusions vary too. In BoSaA, Bobby Higgins uses "hedgehog skin" to describe a medical condition from which he's suffering (which is less than cute). So that's what led me to ask.

 

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of the picture. Adorable, indeed.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Dust Bunny

[GHScorpiosRule]

Because I just can't contain myself, and no way would I be able to recap my thoughts on this buik in one post without breaking the board:

 

I started this buik nearly a week ago, and up to the 24% mark, and my thoughts thus far:

 

When Claire has just stitched Wee Ian's head-- I'm left confused by his speaking in different languages when he's not waking up, since when someone is shocked awake, they speak their mother tongue. So he should have been mumbling in Gaelic, not a mixture of Gaelic and Mohawk dialect. Especially since he was only with them 2 years(?) and not most of his life.  But I am enjoying reading from his POV.

 

Aha!!!! So it wasn't through DG that we learned that Jamie offering himself to John as payment for watching over Willie was a test. It's revealed in this buik. Unless she told readers before this buik came out and decided to put it in? Which is cheating? But whatever.

Also, I think, based on Claire's discomfort and her mind always going to the worst possible reasons, has more issues with homosexuality* because DG always makes it plain that his homosexuality is the main reason she's uncomfortable around him, followed closely by the fact that he's in love with Jamie.  Jamie, comes across as more progressive, what with him accepting how John feels even though he doesn't return them.

 

*In hindsight, I realize it's also because she knows what Jamie went through with Black Jack, so that must also be considered. But still.

Since DG does such good research on the historical aspect of this series, I'm really surprised that when she had John tell Jamie, in his letter, about the Boston Massacre--that she didn't put in how it was John Adams who got three of the five acquitted, since this buik is about the American Revolution.  I've just met Bobby Higgins, and I like him very much. I wonder if she fictionalized him to give him a story here (that is if Higgins was one of the five in the Massacre), or if he's a totally made up character.

So far, no' enough Fergus for me. He's just mentioned in passing or in the background. Me no likey. And I wonder, does he still call Jamie "Mi'Lord!" since Jamie has given him his name or....because I can't remember what he calls him or Claire!

And I love that even when he's thinking and not talking out loud, that Wee Ian addresses Claire as "Auntie Claire."  Just as before in Voyager, it's so endearing because I expect only toddlers and children to say Auntie and grown ups to say Aunt. But Wee Ian continues to call her Auntie, which I love and always takes my mind back to when he first sees her at the brothel. My mind is a verra weird thing, tae be shure.

 

And I really, really, and I mean really didn't need the image of how Claire was going to treat Bobby's 'emerods' in DETAIL, okay?

 

And HOLY SHIT! I finished reading Claire's gang rape last night and up to Mrs. Bug, having killed Lionel Brown.

And shit! I remembered Hodgepile before Claire realized where she knew him from! 

I don't think I like the implication that Fergus abuses Marsali. No, not at all. I do know Fergus, and I refuse to believe he's an abuser; and I don't care that Marsali said she thought it was just like with her stepfather, which is why she conked Fergus. I see it as him grabbing her arm, so she can't conk him on the head or wherever.  But I hate the inference or idea of it that DG put in.  Sae I'm looking for the Adventures of Fergus and Wee Ian tae be shure!

Aha! Another of the five, and he also "doesn't want to hurt" Claire, but thinks raping her is NOT hurting her?! And fuck! The one guy that actually did rape her, I know him! I know him! Mclellan or something other. That bastard!

Okay I was confused when I read this thread first, because it made it look like it was the Brown brothers who raped Claire; and then threw in about her almost dying due to fever, but that didn't happen that way, and NOW I'm seeing the fever.

And even if it's ridiculous, I find it endearing that Jamie, at 50+, can still blush.

But man, oh man, oh man. I loved him when he killed Hodgepile, and said only he can kill in Claire's name:

 

"There is an oath upon her," he said to Arch, and I realized dimly that he was still speaking in Gaelic, though I understood him clearly.  "She may not kill, save it is for mercy or her life. It is myself who kills for her;" , followed by Wee Ian with:

 

"And I," said a tall figure behind him, softly.  Ian.

 

I had to insert the drums from Last of the Mohicans, since I've never heard the bodhran before, but that whole scene was awesome! Riveting. Just edge on your seat/bed/holding your breath while reading it all unfold, lip biting awesomeness.

For some reason, I didn't expect her rape to be so early in the book;

 

I loathe both Brown brothers. I just do.  And it was Mrs. Bug that got to kill him! That said, I didn't get the impression that everyone was hemming and hawing over killing L. Brown. Jamie just said he wouldn't kill a man who clearly couldn't defend himself or whatever it was he said. The plan was there for him to kill Brown after he got his answers. It's why he didn't want Claire to treat him, either.  And from what Jamie said to Mrs. Bug, he wanted to be the one to kill him. And I don't mean to say that I didn't want him dead, either. He wanted to kill Claire, after all! And accused her of being a witch, heh.

It's a pure plot point, if you ask me, because there was no reason to kidnap Claire, cut her up, threaten to cut her up, and have all that happen. I mean, all Hodgepileofshit had to do was force her to take him to where the whisky was.

 

And color me surprised Rollo wasn't with them to tear open the throats of some of the men.

Edited July 16, 2015 by GHScorpiosRule

[Petunia846]

You're only at 24%?! You've just described pretty much all I remember out of that book. Heh. I read them so fast though, back to back, and I haven't reread the later ones, so I guess they all kind of blend together. Your posts are such a nice refresher course!

[GHScorpiosRule]

You're only at 24%?! You've just described pretty much all I remember out of that book. Heh. I read them so fast though, back to back, and I haven't reread the later ones, so I guess they all kind of blend together. Your posts are such a nice refresher course!

 

Yes, Petunia, only at 24%! And I've been reading them back-to-back as well, and I find some things are blurring for me, too!  What I really want a resolution, for the lack of a better word, is the inference and Bree's misconception that Fegus "beats" Marsali. I'll be out of town this weekend, so I probably won't get much reading done. Maybe up to 40%.  

[auntlada]

I don't remember any of that. I think I'm going to have to reread this one.

[WatchrTina]

 

I had to insert the drums from Last of the Mohicans, since I've never heard the bodhran before, but that whole scene was awesome! Riveting. Just edge on your seat/bed/holding your breath while reading it all unfold, lip biting awesomeness.

One of the things I am most looking forward to in the TV show is the opportunity to actually hear what bagpipes sound like when Highlanders are going into battle (book 2) and what Roger's bodhran sounds like when Jamie's men attack in this book.  I'm having anticipatory goosebumps right now.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Okay, I was wrong; I'm up to 30% and what seems like Claire getting a fever...hasn't happened yet; but by all accounts, the symptoms? Tell me that she is not well.

 

Anyhoo, auntlada, the recap I provided takes place in the first four parts of the buik. I've just started part five, and Claire is debating how to deliver Marsali's baby.

 

Me: biting lip and fingernails that all goes well...

[CalamityBoPeep]

And I love that even when he's thinking and not talking out loud, that Wee Ian addresses Claire as "Auntie Claire."  Just as before in Voyager, it's so endearing because I expect only toddlers and children to say Auntie and grown ups to say Aunt. But Wee Ian continues to call her Auntie, which I love and always takes my mind back to when he first sees her at the brothel. My mind is a verra weird thing, tae be shure.

 

It's a lot of fun to read your first impressions as you go through the series GHScorpios (and yes, back when I watched GH, I totally thought the Scorpios ruled!).

 

Here's a little Scots tidbit for you re: the Auntie thing...

 

My mom is Scottish, and all my Scottish cousins absolutely still call her Auntie, though they're all in their 40's or older.  It's just a thing... very common for a dearly loved Aunt to be called Auntie in Scottish families.  My my mother's sister and sister-in-law were both my Aunties (both have passed away now, but we still refer to them as Auntie when we speak of them); two aunties of my mother's (so my great-aunts) were also my Aunties.  And so on.  All of my Scottish Aunts of whatever generation, continued to be Aunties. :-)  It was kind of interesting to me, growing up, that my female American relatives were Aunts and Grandmom but my Scottish relatives were Aunties and Granny. LOL  Anyway... just a fun little thing about having a dual nationality family.

 

Not sure if the pattern holds, in general, for Aunts who aren't thought of so fondly, in Scotland. I didn't see or hear much of my casual Scottish acquaintances talking about Aunts that they didn't like.  Mostly we just hung out to drink and dance, when I visited as a teen back in the 80's, so not much discussion of family dynamics then.  I imagine calling my Aunties "Aunt" might come across to them as if I were calling them "lovely."  Which is not always a good thing to be called.  It can be kind of the equivalent of a Southern "Bless Your Heart" here in the States.

[GHScorpiosRule]

It's a lot of fun to read your first impressions as you go through the series GHScorpios (and yes, back when I watched GH, I totally thought the Scorpios ruled!).

 

Here's a little Scots tidbit for you re: the Auntie thing...

 

My mom is Scottish, and all my Scottish cousins absolutely still call her Auntie, though they're all in their 40's or older.  It's just a thing... very common for a dearly loved Aunt to be called Auntie in Scottish families.

Thanks for the trivia.  I only made a point of it because other than the first time, Jamie just calls Jocasta "Aunt."

 

And can I just add that I am really loving Germaine and Jemmy? Joanie and Felicite still aren't realized characters for me yet. But I am really enjoying seeing more of Germaine.

 

And Fergus is breaking my heart.

[CalamityBoPeep]

Thanks for the trivia.  I only made a point of it because other than the first time, Jamie just calls Jocasta "Aunt."

 

 

I've always taken that to mean that Jamie has a more distant and formal relationship with his aunt, and less deep affection for her.  Which... yes, I think he has some affection, but for the most part, it seems he didn't really know her very well.  I don't know if Diana Gabaldon has consciously realized the difference in the Aunt/Auntie manner of address in Scotland, but so far she seems to be hitting the mark.  It's either something she's noticed, in particular, or it's instinct, on her part.  Who knows?  I do love seeing Young Ian and his adoration for his Auntie Claire, though. :-)

Edited July 17, 2015 by CalamityBoPeep

[peacefrog]

I can't remember but does Ian call Jamie,"Uncle" when addressing him directly? I feel like he does but Jamie never addressed Colum and Dougal as such.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I can't remember but does Ian call Jamie,"Uncle" when addressing him directly? I feel like he does but Jamie never addressed Colum and Dougal as such.

 

 

Yes, yes he does. I think Jamie only addressed Colum as "Uncle" once or twice. I do know he addressed Colum as Uncle on the show. Right after he had married Claire.

[lianau]

 

Also, I think, based on Claire's discomfort and her mind always going to the worst possible reasons, has more issues with homosexuality* because DG always makes it plain that his homosexuality is the main reason she's uncomfortable around him, followed closely by the fact that he's in love with Jamie.  Jamie, comes across as more progressive, what with him accepting how John feels even though he doesn't return them.

 

*In hindsight, I realize it's also because she knows what Jamie went through with Black Jack, so that must also be considered. But still.

I think the perception of Claire as really homophobic has a lot to do with the reader's understanding of Claire as a modern woman . But Claire would be turning 97 in 2015 , she left the 20th century (again) before Stonewall , before the gay rights movement  took off and  when homosexuality was  still considered a mental disorder . She's a woman of her time and then of course there is the Black Jack trauma  playing into it as well .

[WatchrTina]

My reading is that Claire's antipathy toward Lord John is primarily due to jealousy over his feelings toward Jamie (unrequited though they be) and the fact that he got to raise Jamie's son.  If Lord John was carrying an unrequited torch for, say, a still-living Hector, I feel Book!Claire would be entirely sympathetic for his feelings, even if the idea of gay sex was distasteful to her.  Having read ALL the books (including the Lord John books) I admit that I might be projecting onto Book!Claire the sentiments that I want her to have.  But there is are moments in a later book that I think supports my position.  HERE BE SOME PRETTY BIG SPOILERS.

 

In MOBY Claire has an encounter with a spy named Richardson who "knows what John is."  After he tells Claire that (she plays dumb and gives him no indication that she knows what he is hinting at) she warns John about it.  This is, of course, long after John rode to her rescue in Book 7 and married her during the few chapters where they both though she was a widow, so perhaps gratitude for that selfless act -- an act of pure friendship for her and, lets face, an act of love for Jamie -- cured her of any jealousy or anti-gay feelings she may have had toward John.  Anyway, the marriage of John and Claire, the sex they have during that marriage (both of them knowing the other is thinking about Jamie) and Claire's continued concern for John's well-being after that marriage dissolves all dovetail with my belief that she's not really all that fussed by homosexuality, she just really doesn't like it when those feelings are directed at her beloved husband (a man who still has nightmares about Wentworth.)

Edited July 18, 2015 by WatchrTina

[lianau]

There is a lot of discussion about Malva and Allen in the Ask a book reader thread but I think I better ask the question here , what do you think of Malva ? I see her as a horribly abused young woman trying to stay alive somehow.

[Petunia846]

I think of her as a horribly abused young woman who went astray, because even though she had real reasons for her issues, that doesn't make the things she did right. She's very tragic.

[Dust Bunny]

Agreed. I also think it's irritating that we get several scenes of Malva doing bad things and only one scene of Allen's explanation of the horrible things he did. Similarly, I feel like Lizzy is blamed for her actions more than the Beardsley twins. I don't know if it's because the Frasers were closer to Malva and Lizzy and so felt relatively betrayed, but it always read a teeny bit inequitable to me. I guess YMMV.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Dust Bunny

[Glaze Crazy]

I agree that Malva was mostly a victim of her situation, her family and the times but that she also had some inherent issues.  It probably didn't help that she was aware he mother was executed as a witch and she probably did the math and knew that Tom was not her father.  She really had no one to protect her from her brother since her father with his own narrow opinion of women in general would have probably blamed her for it, not Allan, so much.  Because no one knows the whole story about Malva and Allan until after the fact, no one else could put a stop to it before she gets murdered.  I always felt her willingness to be Claire's protege' was a mix of real interest in the healing arts and possibly the idea that Claire might indeed be a witch or conjurer and she could get some training in those arts since she is a "witch's" daughter herself.

 

I think the Beardsley twins were raised practically feral and would have had no idea and no real reference point that sharing a wife was not the norm or a socially acceptable situation.  Lizzie would have had a different upbringing in Scotland so it's probably assumed she knew it was not an acceptable arrangement so the family is more shocked at her actions than the twins. 

[WatchrTina]

I recently watched an episode of "Call the Midwife", a BBC America show set in the East End of London in the 1950/60s, in which a pair of identical twins share a husband. Those women were portrayed as being quite uneducated, superstitious, and rather "feral" too. Everyone in the community just looked the other way. Interesting that two writers would come up with the same idea.

Edited July 19, 2015 by WatchrTina

[peacefrog]

The Lizzy marriage seems to fit into the running theme of what is marriage, what makes a good one, what types are there. It's not everyone's first choice but the 3 of them are happy, not hurting anyone else and so far making a go of it! I also think Jamie and Claire let it go because you could argue were 3 people in their marriage at one time.

[Dust Bunny]

I also think Jamie and Claire let it go because you could argue were 3 people in their marriage at one time.

 

Huh - that's true. That makes me consider Claire's bigamist line about Lizzy as more even tongue in cheek than it already was.

[jjj]

 I also think Jamie and Claire let it go because you could argue were 3 people in their marriage at one time.

I think there were three people in their marriage at least three times I can count!  (

Frank; Laoghaire; Lord John Grey

)  Am I missing any?!

Edited July 20, 2015 by Athena
Spoiler for future book

[GHScorpiosRule]

Say whuuuuut?

 

Are ye sayin' that Lizzie marries both the Beardsley twins? I'm only up to the part after Claire had her first major PTSD when Ute (I HATE her; never liked her; pushy, bossy, arrogant ass) attacks her; and where Jemmy has just learned to "swim" with the help of Germaine, and he's kissed Jamie's "owie" (his scars) as they're heading home from the stream. And Bree is annoying me with her assumptions.

 

Because based on what I've seen so far, it seems that Lizzie is attracted to Bobby, and there was some cattiness between her and Malva when Claire was testing the ether on her and Bobby awhile back.

 

I'm just still coming down from my seeingNoraRobertsgainandFINALLYmeetingandchattingwithNaliniSingh high, so apologies if I don't sound coherent.  Only managed to do a wee bit o' reading this weekend.

[WatchrTina]

 

Are ye sayin' that Lizzie marries both the Beardsley twins?

Yup.  And they're quite clever about it all.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Yup.  And they're quite clever about it all.

 

 

In the words of Dr. Sam Beckett: "Oh Boy."

[Petunia846]

Do they get officially married or do they just cohabitate and do what they want? I forget.

[sosmitten]

They figure out some way to have one part of the ceremony with one of them and another part with the other (or something like that).  One of them even cuts off the tip of his finger (like the other one) so that Jamie can't tell them apart. I could go look up the details but I'm feeling a little lazy right now. :)

[lianau]

Do they get officially married or do they just cohabitate and do what they want? I forget.

Lizzie and the twins had developed a sort of MFM relationship .One of them knocks her up and that's when the whole thing comes out initially (Lizzie's father is found drunk by Jamie and Claire and spills the beans ). They all agree that Lizzie has to get married to one of them to give the child a name . They draw straws and the winner gets to marry Lizzie while the loser has to move off the ridge . One of the twins then gets handfasted to Lizzie and obviously neither one of them likes the situation at all . As one of the twins has scar on his thumb the other one cuts his thumb to also have one and then they get poor Roger ,who has no idea about the situation, to marry Lizzie to the other twin .

[WatchrTina]

Right.  One of the twins is the public husband and for a good long while the twins never appear in public together.  That way, anyone who sees them assumes that they are seeing the public husband (and Jamie thinks he's been obeyed.)  Once Lizzie is officially and publicly with child by her official husband, her "brother-in-law" comes back from the long hunting trip he's supposedly been on.  I presume Janie eventually finds out that he's been had but I don't recall there being any consequences for the trio.  Jamie dare not make a big deal about it because if he does, the very religious people on the mountain (of which there are many) may do something really bad to them.  I think Jamie has no choice but to pretend not to know out their usual arrangement.  

[jjj]

Jamie dare not make a big deal about it because if he does, the very religious people on the mountain (of which there are many) may do something really bad to them.  

I have a question about this: 

I was under the impression that the Beardsleys did have a traumatic end -- maybe I mis-read something about this. Are they still alive in the current (2015) stage of the saga?