S01.E02: Preparing to Live

[AnimeMania]

The Foundation makes the long journey to Terminus as Gaal and Raych grow closer. The Empire faces a  difficult decision.

Airdate: September 24, 2021

[AnimeMania]

My thoughts:

I was not fond of this episode the pacing was too slow, why try to make me care about the characters now, after convincing me that the things that they accomplish in the long term are way more important than their day to day existence. I could also use some world building, this show is a bout a galaxy and everything that happens is confined to the Empire Palace and a spaceship.

The Empire (Dawn, Day, Dusk) refer to each other as brothers. Day seems to have all of the authority, they are not equals, Dusk must have a lot of resentment that his suggestions are completely dismissed by Day and society. What is Dusk's purpose, he seems to be reaching the end on his usefulness. Do they really have to train each clone to replace their successor, that seems inefficient, maybe have multiple copies of each clone in case of accident. Maybe those personal force fields help to stave off most accidents. The Empire seems to have no need of a female companion i.e. Queen.

Everyone who gets pregnant on the spaceship has the embryo removed and stored to be resumed once they hit planet fall. Would this make a generation of people on the planet all around the same age? It would make education and reproduction easier if everyone was at the same developmental stages at the same time. They probably don't want to waste the ships limited resources on people incapable of pulling her own weight (pregnant women and babies).

Demerzel seems to be running about a quart low. That might explain how she will be able to remains in the story through the entire timeline. I am guessing Demerzel will relate to the AI sympathizers that Hari mentioned earlier. Their really is no fluff in the story, every scene has a meaning. This may be the biggest flaw in the TV Series since if we never get to see what society is like, we can never get to see what people might be rebelling against. How can we pick a side if we are not familiar with either side. 

The Empire is attacked and they spend months trying to figure out who did it. How can they be so slow. It is probably just for the story's benefit, but how can one incident take up so much of the Empire's time, learn to delegate, get a team of advisors and administrators to oversee the day to day running of the galaxy so that (Dawn, Day, Dusk) might focus on the general direction they wish the galaxy to go in. 

The show seems to be lacking in the costume department, since everyone seems to be wearing some slight variation of what they always wear. Also there seems to be a lack of variation in the status of the people we encounter, most appear to be lower working class and we are missing the higher working and the ruling elite classes. Style, color and crazy futuristic designs would give the show some flair and break up the monotony. This episode's story crawled at a snail's pace compared to the last episode. The minutiae of the effort put forth with the day to day of the Empire and on the spaceship, contrasted with how the bold decisive concluding actions pretty much erased all of the progress that had been made up to this point. Maybe the lesson from this episode is it is easier to destroy something than it is to build something. I don't know why we spent so much time on the spaceship and the integration if they were not going be to so callously erased in the end.

Hari totally orchestrated that terrorist attack, didn't he?
 

[Zonk]

This was significantly more boring than the first episode. I guess they went for building atmosphere but I think abut half this episode could have been cut.

At no point was that ship traveling faster than light in the multiple exterior shots we saw, so my question from the last episode remains: How are they going to travel 50.000 light years in 878 days? That's just not possible with them trudging along at sub light.

So Terminus orbits a red dwarf, but is not tidally locked and you can still live on it? Buh humbug. It should either be so cold that you can't have exposed skin on it (and we saw in the future scenes people with exposed faces) or it should be tidally locked. Plus what would produce the oxygen on the planet? Plus red dwarfs are so volitile, they regularly sterilse planets that would be in their "habital zone". My speculation is that it was a red dwarf in the books, but with newer scientific understanding, they really should have changed it to a small orange dwarf and the planet being on the outskirts of the habitble zone...

I assume Hari being killed was integral to his plan working. He thought he would be executed by Empire, the probability probably worked out that way, but Gaal being more than he expected changed that outcome and so Raych had to do it. Another data point for Psychohistory being bullshit. He can't even predict these datapoints, that will change history radically, accurately and has to adjust for them, to still fit his predictions.

So Empire always goes for the stick. That is depressing biological determinism, as young Dawn didn't seem to like it, yet he will grow into the same man his brothers were before him.

10 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

They probably don't want to waste the ships limited resources on people incapable of pulling her own weight (pregnant women and babies).

They also said the radiation they absorb would make a successfull pregnancy extremely unlikely.

10 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

The Empire is attacked and they spend months trying to figure out who did it. How can they be so slow. It is probably just for the story's benefit, but how can one incident take up so much of the Empire's time, learn to delegate, get a team of advisors and administrators to oversee the day to day running of the galaxy so that (Dawn, Day, Dusk) might focus on the general direction they wish the galaxy to go in. 

Agreed.

They also must have some more advanced machinery to detect if people are lying. You can already do pretty well with MRIs today. It's not fool proof, but I assume a society with jump drives would have the brain figured out.

Also why would the planets attacking the main world send delegates at the same time? And we are supposed to believe that everybody just buys all of this? The empire couldn't even keep Hari's Psychohistory under wraps. Rumours that Empire doesn't know who actually attacked home world and was just bombing two innocent planets as a show of strength would spread like wildfire.

10 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

The show seems to be lacking in the costume department, since everyone seems to be wearing some slight variation of what they always wear.

I was so distracted by the god awfull armor Day was wearing during the execution scene. Have something that looks a bit less like spray painted plastic, you are an emperor for gods sake!

10 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Hari totally orchestrated that terrorist attack, didn't he?

90% probability, I'd say. 😉

Edited September 25, 2021 by Zonk

[marinw]

Agree with the above posters. But overall I like this show so far ans will stick with it.

Asimov had a HUGE oeuvre. Yet his work has trouble making it to the screen. There was the underwhelming 2004  I, Robot. There was also the 1999 The Bicentennial Man which got terrible reviews but which I really liked.

IIRC Data was once described as an Asmovion Andriod as he was bound by the Three Laws of Robotics, more or less. 

Edited September 25, 2021 by marinw

[Anduin]

9 hours ago, Zonk said:

At no point was that ship traveling faster than light in the multiple exterior shots we saw, so my question from the last episode remains: How are they going to travel 50.000 light years in 878 days? That's just not possible with them trudging along at sub light.

How close to lightspeed can you get? Maybe if you factor in relativity... I dunno. Maths isn't my strong point. Alternately, maybe there's a portal network, but the portals are spread thin and you really have to hike to them. Similar to the Expanse.

Did Day even care about the investigation at all? He seems to be the ruthless one. I expect that Dusk will soon die, leaving Day to bend Dawn's views into his own. But still, it shows that Hardin is right. Day is incredibly fragile.

So Demerzel. Was she a bot that sided with the humans for safety? Or was she programmed to side with them? And how old is she?

 

[Zonk]

5 hours ago, Anduin said:

How close to lightspeed can you get? Maybe if you factor in relativity... I dunno. Maths isn't my strong point.

Theoretically 0.9999999. But even then you should see distortion in the light around the ship. Also it would still take you more than 50.000 years to get to a destination 50.000 light years away. The trip would be a lot shorter for you, as you approach light speed, but not for the rest of the galaxy. For them it would still be over 50.0000 years and considering that they want to prevent a 30.000 year dark age that will start in under 500 years, that's a bit of a problem. If they do travel at sublight speeds, the dark ages will be long over once they get to Terminus. Which I guess is one way to solve the problem...

6 hours ago, Anduin said:

Alternately, maybe there's a portal network, but the portals are spread thin and you really have to hike to them. Similar to the Expanse.

Sorry but that seems a bit too fanwanky for me. They never said anything about jump gates nor gave even the impression that such a thing exists.

6 hours ago, Anduin said:

So Demerzel. Was she a bot that sided with the humans for safety? Or was she programmed to side with them? And how old is she?

Can't really answer the first two, but she is older than the Empire, so more than 12.000 years.

[Glade]

So they have this advanced technology, but can't automate the laundry system?  Or maybe they could have before they killed off all their robots, and now they just maintain a permanent lower working class instead because they don't care.   This show is enough to keep my interest so far. though I can't say it's as good as 'Raised By Wolves.' Lee Pace is amazing.

[ferjy]

11 hours ago, Anduin said:

Maths isn't my strong point.

As Gaal was counting her prime numbers, I couldn’t help wishing she was anything but a mathematics expert. Maybe a botanist and recite herbs, flowers and trees, so I could learn about new plants. 😄

 

[Melina22]

I love this show. The production values are fantastic, the acting is uniformly excellent, and the dialogue is very natural, not clichéd or stilted. 

When was the last time you saw people doing laundry in space? In Alien? Nope. BSG? Nope. In any of the Star Things? Nope. Sorry, but it made me smile. I really enjoyed it. 

I would be happy with less kissing scenes, but that's just me. And I really don't understand why Hari's son murdered him. It came out of nowhere. Surely he didn't do it because of the remark about his father. 

Maybe one of my favourite things is watching the clones. Dusk is feeling everything so many old people feel in our society, angry and useless. Day is perfectly embodying the hubris and cruelty of so many despots. Nothing unrealistic about that. I guess the three are basically identical triplets of different ages. Genetically identical, but distinct and separate people who might sometimes be at odds with each other. 

Anyway, I can't wait for episode 3. 

Last thought - did the woman asking for wine imply she decided to put her embryo in the seed bank or whatever it's called? 

[marinw]

IIRC on an early epiosde of BSG nobody was allowed to wash their clothes due to a water shortage. Good point @Melina22. The ship's laundry looked very low tech. Loved Seldon's speech about how all crewmembers are important. Usually those speeches sound patronizing but the great Jared Harris managed to be completely sincere.

The Clones reminded me of the third season of Dark where they had the same person at three different ages. It's complicated.

Edited September 26, 2021 by marinw

[Melina22]

5 minutes ago, marinw said:

IIRC on an early epiosd of BSG nobody was allowed to wash their clothes due to a water shortage.

Yes! Good recall. When a saboteur blew out one of the water tanks. It's true the laundry was low tech, but think of us. Our society considers ourselves as very advanced but we do lots of things that aren't, like mopping a floor or dusting. These things would be very recognizeable to people from a thousand years ago. 

There's something comfortable about the way the show handles the idea of the future, from the variety of clothing, to food, to fabulous air graphs. They don't keep pushing the idea of "Look! It's the future! It's so futuristic!" in our face. I know that's getting to be common in sci-fi but I find this show does it especially well. 

Unfortunately I now have the image stuck in my head of Day pushing the people off to their deaths with such enormous satisfaction. Disturbing. 

[marinw]

Ok, I'm obsessed with laundry! On The Expanse water is precious so they must do something else to clean their clothes. On this ship (I don't recall the name) water seems plentiful, Gaal even gets a swimming pool all to herself.

Another thing I like is how the crew/colonists realize that to survive on Terminus they all have to learn how to do as many things as possible. Gaal being a brillant mathematician does not exuse her from joining the mining simulation. In the words of Robert Anson Heinlein, specilization is for insects.

Edited September 26, 2021 by marinw

[Jack Shaftoe]

Such stunningly beautiful visuals and yet such terrible dialogue and clumsy storytelling. I will need more of Clarke Peters on screen if I am to keep watching this show. 🙂

[Zonk]

19 hours ago, Melina22 said:

I would be happy with less kissing scenes, but that's just me. And I really don't understand why Hari's son murdered him. It came out of nowhere. Surely he didn't do it because of the remark about his father. 

Like I said in aprevious post, it's probably important for his predictions to come true, that he be dead. He was sure that he was going to get executed, but Gaal being extra special made that not happen and so Raych had to kill him.

That's also why Hari was so particular about the shirt he wore that day, because he knew he would be dying in it.

The little fight they had was just a red hering.

[Melina22]

So why did Raych send Gaal off into... whatever? Was he planning to destroy the ship? 

[jane1978]

Ok, this is the second episode and I´m already little annoyed with Gaal, the special one. Like the budget room scene, where she immediatelly questioned the whole deal. Maybe she was right, but you just don´t badger the room like this being the know it all and make everybody else look stupid. 

Also the show tries to convince us she is working extremely hard and is treated just like any other ordinary pasenger, yet shows her mostly spending time in a luxury pool all just for herself or f*cking in the simulator room, which always make me imagine the people who are running the simulators and sees them going at it and be like "Oh no, not again". Anyway, the idea that the whole ship including Hari doesn´t know about her and Raych relationship is just ridiculous. They are watched and monitored 24/7, all their vital functions included. 

Now, what was the deal with the dinner scene? It seemed to hint that Raych is actually quite normal (read stupid), because he as kid didn´t steal the books to learn, but just to sell them. And then Hari somewhat adopted him? It seems there is a lot of hidden resentment and Hari was reminding Raych who he truly is (and that he probably is not a good match for a genius like Gaal). 

Now, the Emperors. Sorry, but with so much shortsightness and stupidity how they even managed to rule for so long? They just left the fallen tether lie on the ground for months on their home planet, yet spend bilions to send thousands of battleships to bomb some forgotten planets into stone age from orbit? And what about the names? It seems clever, but will be Dawn always named Dawn even when he is the old one? Or will he became Day when he takes over an active rule? Also, he is about 10? He will be adult in 10 years, ready to take over, and Day will be about fifty. Dawn is already questioning Day´s decisions now, it´s no way he will just let his "brother" to rule.

This is an imperium which controls the galaxies, yet all we see is three people, their one spy and AI nanny who is apparently also in a charge of terror investigation. There has to be a huge ruling circle and thousands of powerfull people who might be questioning the Emperor´s decisions on daily basis. And the Emperors would have to try very hard to keep them content and loyal, especially if almost all AI was apparently destroyed (seems both Dune and this prefer using humans intead) so all the manpower is still made from flesh.

I have no idea what the end was about, but I will be sorry if that´s it for Hari. But the actor is quite famous (read expensive) after Chernobyl, so maybe he was just there to introduce us to the story.

[AnimeMania]

I am not sure Hari is dead. Raych removed the device that was tracking Hari's vital signs from behind his ear. A few minutes later the device registered that Hari was dead.

[ferjy]

On 9/26/2021 at 7:40 PM, AnimeMania said:

I am not sure Hari is dead. Raych removed the device that was tracking Hari's vital signs from behind his ear. A few minutes later the device registered that Hari was dead.

I’m hoping he’s somehow saved since Jared Harris is the reason I started watching this!

 

On 9/26/2021 at 7:26 PM, jane1978 said:

I have no idea what the end was about, but I will be sorry if that´s it for Hari. But the actor is quite famous (read expensive) after Chernobyl, so maybe he was just there to introduce us to the story.

He was famous way before Chernobyl. He’s the son of the late great Richard Harris. 

 

[ferjy]

On 9/26/2021 at 4:32 PM, Zonk said:

Like I said in aprevious post, it's probably important for his predictions to come true, that he be dead.

Agree with this. Although I think he just needs to appear to be dead. I agree with AnineMania that he may not be dead. Raych removed the vitals tracker because it would probably have read that he is alive, and he manipulated it to read otherwise. Although if Raych is going to destroy the ship, that theory is out the window. 😄 But I can’t see them killing off both characters (and hopefully neither!).

 

[Netfoot]

The Foundation trilogy is a story of galactic scale. Even Foundation (Book #1) is an epic tale all on it's own. I am not sure how this series is going to tell the story, if they keep manufacturing original plot-lines like the triumvirate Dawn/Day/Dusk Empire or the underwater breath-holding Gaal being ejected into the asteroid belt in an escape pod, with Hari's murder weapon? It's only episode #2 but the more I watch, the more I fear that very little of the original Asimov will survive. Or are they planning to produce 120 episodes?

 

On 9/24/2021 at 10:02 AM, AnimeMania said:

Everyone who gets pregnant on the spaceship has the embryo removed and stored to be resumed once they hit planet fall.

Denied Jump technology, the 50,000ly (15,330pc) journey to the edge of the empire takes several years. Clearly, there is some other FTL technology that is not 'Jump' technology. (Wu-ut?) If embryos are temporarily stored until arrival at Terminus isn't it, uh, conceivable that a mother might have several stored embryos awaiting for re-implantation by the time she arrives? I foresee potential flaws with this plan. Simple birth-control would seem to be a better idea.

On 9/24/2021 at 10:02 AM, AnimeMania said:

The show seems to be lacking in the costume department, since everyone seems to be wearing some slight variation of what they always wear. Also there seems to be a lack of variation in the status of the people we encounter, most appear to be lower working class and we are missing the higher working and the ruling elite classes.

Style of apparel is apparently an indicator of planetary origin. Earthers will all wear... Jeans and a tee-shirt?

On 9/24/2021 at 10:28 PM, marinw said:

There was the underwhelming 2004  I, Robot. There was also the 1999 The Bicentennial Man which got terrible reviews but which I really liked.

In the case of I, Robot, they adopted the name and maybe a few character names (eg. Susan Calvin) but absolutely nothing else from the book lived to reach the silver screen. If it was underwhelming, it is because it deserved to be underwhelming.

But I too enjoyed The Bicentennial Man.

On 9/25/2021 at 5:29 AM, Anduin said:

I expect that Dusk will soon die, leaving Day to bend Dawn's views into his own. But still, it shows that Hardin is right. Day is incredibly fragile.

If Dusk dies, doesn't Dawn immediately become Day who immediately becomes Dusk, and a new Dawn decanted? I mean, clever idea, the triumvirate, but there are practical issues to consider.

On 9/25/2021 at 10:06 PM, marinw said:

In the words of Robert Anson Heinlein, specilization is for insects.

The wisdom of RAH is peerless...

On 9/26/2021 at 7:26 PM, jane1978 said:

I will be sorry if that´s it for Hari.

Spoiler

IMdB lists him as participating in all ten episodes. Of course, he might return in the form of flashback moments....

 

[Anduin]

8 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

If Dusk dies, doesn't Dawn immediately become Day who immediately becomes Dusk, and a new Dawn decanted? I mean, clever idea, the triumvirate, but there are practical issues to consider.

Yes, but Lee Pace, whichever one he is, will be the first among equals. And he's not exactly a great person. Pace with no checks and balances is bad news for the empire.

[Netfoot]

34 minutes ago, Anduin said:

Yes, but Lee Pace, whichever one he is, will be the first among equals. And he's not exactly a great person. Pace with no checks and balances is bad news for the empire.

I'm sure it would work out that way, but is it supposed to work that way? I assume Dawn is tasked with observation and learning, Day wields the decision-making power, and Dusk lends experience and wisdom in an advisory capacity. But this only works if there is a regular progression of Dawn>Day>Dusk.

What is supposed to happen if Dawn reaches 25 years of age and a robust, 50 year old Day refuses to hand over the reigns of power, ignoring the advice of a 75 year old Dusk? How old does Dawn have to get before they have to decant a new Dawn to replace him in years to come? And would that not force the Dawn>Day>Dusk transition, with a little regicide thrown in to dispose of the outgoing Dusk?

Just seems like a system that almost guarantees internecine strife. Should a mature Dawn kill off Day so as to ascend to power? That would leave him with a Dusk two generations older than himself, almost guaranteeing himself a shorter than usual reign. Or should he kill off Dusk, forcing a resentful Day to transition to Dusk (bearing a grudge) and ascend to power thst way?

Certainly a far more complex system of leadership than the original system as I remember was described by Asimov.

But interesting, never the less.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Netfoot

[Anduin]

6 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

I'm sure it would work out that way, but is it supposed to work that way? I assume Dawn is tasked with observation and learning, Day wields the decision-making power, and Dusk lends experience and wisdom in an advisory capacity. But this only works if there is a regular progression of Dawn>Day>Dusk.

What is supposed to happen if Dawn reaches 25 years of age and a robust, 50 year old Day refuses to hand over the reigns of power, ignoring the advice of a 75 year old Dusk? How old does Dawn have to get before they have to decant a new Dawn to replace him in years to come? And would that not force the Dawn>Day>Dusk transition, with a little regicide thrown in to dispose of the outgoing Dusk?

Just seems like a system that almost guarantees internecine strife. Should a mature Dawn kill off Day so as to ascend to power? That would leave him with a Dusk two generations older than himself, almost guaranteeing himself a shorter than usual reign. Or should he kill off Dusk, forcing a resentful Day to transition to Dusk (bearing a grudge) and ascend to power thst way?

Certainly a far more complex system of leadership than the original system as I remember was described by Asimov.

But interesting, never the less.

The Romans tried triumvirates and even a four-person power structure, but it always came back to just one person in charge. It's a system that can work well as long as no one gets too ambitious and listens to reason, but in turbulent times it's ripe for abuse. And Pace, whoever he is at the time, will be the prime abuser!

[AnimeMania]

2 hours ago, Netfoot said:

If embryos are temporarily stored until arrival at Terminus isn't it, uh, conceivable that a mother might have several stored embryos awaiting for re-implantation by the time she arrives? I foresee potential flaws with this plan. Simple birth-control would seem to be a better idea.

Very feasible if the embryos can be brought to term without them being implanted back into the mother. Remember the mother's body is being subjected to radiation, so it is better if the embryos could be shielded in some way. This could also give them quite a large population number in a very short period of time.

[Netfoot]

7 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Very feasible if the embryos can be brought to term without them being implanted back into the mother.

Naturally, but what we have been told is that they will be re-implanted, not brought to term in a tank.

[Lokiberry]

So Gaal actually is a seer? She knew there was something wrong with the space bridge before the attack, and then she knew something had happened to Hari. 

10 hours ago, Anduin said:

What is supposed to happen if Dawn reaches 25 years of age and a robust, 50 year old Day refuses to hand over the reigns of power, ignoring the advice of a 75 year old Dusk?

Maybe the clones are designed to die at 75, insuring an orderly transition. Every 25 years you get a new (same) emperor, who's always at his peak. 

Edited September 29, 2021 by Lokiberry

[Melina22]

13 hours ago, ferjy said:

He was famous way before Chernobyl. He’s the son of the late great Richard Harris. 

 

Wow, I had no idea. For some reason, I thought he was Scandanavian. Guess not! 

[AnimeMania]

I would have some trouble distinguishing between what is a robot and what is an intelligent machine. Did they outlaw all robots and most machines?

[Anduin]

8 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

I would have some trouble distinguishing between what is a robot and what is an intelligent machine. Did they outlaw all robots and most machines?

Tesla's autopilot could be smarter, but you don't want it disagreeing with your choice of destination. Same with roombas. Imagine if they complained about the dirt you were bringing into the house. Or even the other way around, you get the toaster from Red Dwarf. There's degrees of intelligence, and past a certain point is just no good. See Terminator, Blade Runner, or Battlestar Galactica. Even the mild version is C3PO. Keep bots dumb, I say.

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, Anduin said:

1 hour ago, AnimeMania said:

I would have some trouble distinguishing between what is a robot and what is an intelligent machine. Did they outlaw all robots and most machines?

Tesla's autopilot could be smarter, but you don't want it disagreeing with your choice of destination.

A Telsa maybe, if I am wrong, I can get out and walk to where I am going or end up with a ticket for driving the wrong way down a one-way street, a spaceship is a different matter, let me know if I am getting too close to that asteroid.

Is a robot considered something that looks like a human and not like a tank that has a grabber arm and some form of self-driving AI or a spaceship with total systems awareness?

[Zonk]

On 9/29/2021 at 2:38 PM, Netfoot said:

Naturally, but what we have been told is that they will be re-implanted, not brought to term in a tank.

Yeah but on the other hand what we are told is alittle jenky. The voice over also told us that the Cleon clones were "decanted at different ages", when in fact they are born at the same age, at different times.

[MollyB]

On 9/26/2021 at 4:40 PM, AnimeMania said:

I am not sure Hari is dead. Raych removed the device that was tracking Hari's vital signs from behind his ear. A few minutes later the device registered that Hari was dead.

At dinner Hari took some kind of pill and made sure Raych saw him take it.  At the time I assumed it was just medication he took, but now I'm wondering if it was a signal to Raych that whatever plan to "kill" Hari was on for that night.  The pill puts Hari in some kind of coma/sleep mode and we'll see him later, hopefully.

 

[Ottis]

Very late to this, but after watching this ep, anyone feel like the robot counselor is the one actually running the Empire matrix for AI reasons?

[paramitch]

On 9/29/2021 at 6:43 AM, Melina22 said:

Wow, I had no idea. For some reason, I thought he was Scandanavian. Guess not! 

Jared Harris is a wonderful actor, and the rarity who can do both comedy and drama. For those not familiar with Harris, or who have only seen him in the superb "Chernobyl," I highly, highly recommend the following:

• "The Terror" (Season 1) -- A gorgeous Victorian arctic horror story in one season. Harris is stunning, as are Tobias Menzies, Ciaran Hinds, and the entire cast.
• "Crown" Season 1 -- he's a lovely King George and his impact is felt long after season 1.
• "Mad Men" -- he was so good on that show. I am a little conflicted about recommending it because I dislike his character's outcome. But he was wonderful in the part of Lane Pryce either way.
• Other TV shows he's great in as a supporting actor -- "The Expanse," "Fringe" (especially), and "Carnival Row." 
• Moviewise, he was a fantastic and charismatic Moriarty in Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows with Downey's so-so Holmes. He was also a great Ulysses S. Grant in Lincoln, a great Warhol in I Shot Andy Warhol, and dozens of others.

I just love him, and he's always working on something, so you never know where he'll turn up.

I'm enjoying him in this so far, even if I'm finding it hard to stick with the show.