Small Talk: Cosmopolitans and Cupcakes

[Meredith Quill]

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[Scarlett45]

Quoting @CeeBeeGee from the Diwali episode thread topic:

Quote

Your parents were wise. My Dad was supposed to trim my bangs once and he kept putting it off. In a fit of frustration I finally tried it myself. The results were...not pretty.

Awww! I am sorry. But I think you misunderstood my post- not that I wasn't allowed to cut my hair myself, I wasn't allowed to have hair CUTS until I was 21.

My mom gave my hair dressers strict instructions for two inch trims because she wanted me to have super long hair. Yes when I went off to college I could've cut it and she wouldnt have known, but my Mom was financially supporting me and I wanted to choose my battles. So at 21 I got a cute textured pixie, kinda like Jada Pinkett Smith (but not blonde, just my natural black). It was cute, but growing it out was a pain and you have to style short hair every day! No washing and braiding!

 

[PRgal]

I had a dream last night that I was a character on AJLT…I had my son with me and he kept running around in a cafe only to be yelled at by Miranda, tellling me that I was a bad mom for allowing him to do so.  Charlotte had to apologize for her friend.  That said, I also had a dream where I was on a reality show and was being judged by the Kardashians.  It was a weird night. 

[Scarlett45]

56 minutes ago, PRgal said:

I had a dream last night that I was a character on AJLT…I had my son with me and he kept running around in a cafe only to be yelled at by Miranda, tellling me that I was a bad mom for allowing him to do so.  Charlotte had to apologize for her friend.  That said, I also had a dream where I was on a reality show and was being judged by the Kardashians.  It was a weird night. 

Awwww. Yeah I have weird dreams like that sometimes. 

[RealHousewife]

11 hours ago, PRgal said:

I had a dream last night that I was a character on AJLT…I had my son with me and he kept running around in a cafe only to be yelled at by Miranda, tellling me that I was a bad mom for allowing him to do so.  Charlotte had to apologize for her friend.  That said, I also had a dream where I was on a reality show and was being judged by the Kardashians.  It was a weird night. 

You should have told Miranda she's a bad mom for the mess that is Brady! 

[Scarlett45]

Quoting @EllenB from the episode 8 thread-

Quote

 I grew up in the 50s and 60s. Back in those Neanderthal times, people frequently dated more than one person at a time. For teens, a commitment meant officially going steady and announcing it to their friends, and she'd get his class ring to wear on a neck chain or wrapped in yarn to fit her finger. For people out of high school, they could date multiple people until getting engaged to one of them. Unless a couple had gotten engaged, seeing someone else wasn't considered cheating, except by  possessive nutjobs, in which case, better to learn it early. Watch some movies from the 40s and 50s and you'll see the "who'll get engaged?" thing happen a LOT with characters dating several people. I have no idea when things got so retro-puritanical that one date made them a committed couple.

 

I think when the culture changed and 1. Marriage wasn’t the expectation for financial security for women, 2. People spent a larger portion of their adult life single, 3. Sex outside of the bounds of marriage was more socially acceptable (people have always had sex outside of marriage, I mean just being more open about it) I think that’s when “being engaged” stopped being the marker for an emotional/social/sexual commitment between people. 
 

Getting engaged made sense at the point for taking yourself “off the market” when it was assumed people (especially women) wanted to get married for the financial and social status that came with that, and you would date around until you found a suitable partner. But when you would spend years (or decades) seeing people romantically, having sex with them exclusively I can see wanting some sort of commitment that doesn’t equal marriage but a “hey we aren’t seeing other people”.

I am 36, and def see having sexual/romantic relations with someone else without your significant other’s agreement (if you’ve agreed to be monogamous) as cheating- even if you aren’t married or engaged. Now I don’t think cheating on a BF/GF/SO (significant other) with whom you don’t have “life sharing” (like mutual bills or kids) as bad as cheating on a spouse or a life partner - but it’s still shitty. 
 

I do not think having feelings for someone else, confessing those feelings and then immediately ending things with your SO is cheating (like what happened with Steve/Miranda & Debbie/Robert)- I mean your SO has a right to be hurt and upset, but moral lines are not crossed in that situation. 

[ifionlyknew]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

Getting engaged made sense at the point for taking yourself “off the market” when it was assumed people (especially women) wanted to get married for the financial and social status that came with that, and you would date around until you found a suitable partner.

That pretty much describes Carrie and Charlotte on SATC.  Charlotte was more open about that but Carrie was doing it too.

I'm 53 and things started to change when I was in high school in the 80s.  I had one friend who got married right out of high school but other than her looking for a husband didn't take precedence in most women's lives.    

I think with social media being such a huge thing now I think for a lot of people (especially women) being part of a couple is really important.  Even if it's just so they can have their status as in a relationship.  I have done online dating and I had different men tell me they have only talked and texted with women and the women believe that constitutes a relationship. It's things like that I thought AJLT would explore about women dating in their 50s. But instead we get vomit and Miranda losing her fucking mind. 

[Scarlett45]

56 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

That pretty much describes Carrie and Charlotte on SATC.  Charlotte was more open about that but Carrie was doing it too.

I'm 53 and things started to change when I was in high school in the 80s.  I had one friend who got married right out of high school but other than her looking for a husband didn't take precedence in most women's lives.    

I think with social media being such a huge thing now I think for a lot of people (especially women) being part of a couple is really important.  Even if it's just so they can have their status as in a relationship.  I have done online dating and I had different men tell me they have only talked and texted with women and the women believe that constitutes a relationship. It's things like that I thought AJLT would explore about women dating in their 50s. But instead we get vomit and Miranda losing her fucking mind. 

I think most people enjoy the social, emotional and sexual benefits of having a consistent partner, even if they aren’t ready to enter the “life sharing stage” (like bills or kids etc). Having one person to be your social and sexual companion, and provide emotional support is nice- if someone wants that. 
 

I am 36 and I don't know in what world talking/texting with someone constitutes a relationship- except for my acquaintances that have had an arranged marriage, where by they were talking, met and got engaged (but that’s a minority position in mainstream North American culture- if there is such a thing).   For my peer group it was usually the “let’s not see anyone else but each other” talk. 

[ifionlyknew]

7 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I don't know in what world talking/texting with someone constitutes a relationship-

I found it baffling too.  But I guess I can understand there are some people who so badly want to be part of couple they will try to hasten things along.  

8 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Having one person to be your social and sexual companion, and provide emotional support is nice- if someone wants that. 

Back in the day that used to be called dating someone.  Or going even farther back going steady.  Sadly I think nowadays it's either people hooking up or people living together/married.  I'm single and I like being single. I will never marry again but for awhile I was looking for someone to do things with.  And men weren't interested in that.  They were down for hooking up but hanging out and doing things like dinner or watching a movie were out of the question.   Dating isn't what it used to be.

[Scarlett45]

5 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

Back in the day that used to be called dating someone.  Or going even farther back going steady.  Sadly I think nowadays it's either people hooking up or people living together/married.  I'm single and I like being single. I will never marry again but for awhile I was looking for someone to do things with.  And men weren't interested in that.  They were down for hooking up but hanging out and doing things like dinner or watching a movie were out of the question.   Dating isn't what it used to be.

To my peer group “dating” is the getting to know you period before you were exclusive (sexually and romantically)- like going to activities, maybe having sex/hooking up- seeing if you liked them enough to be exclusive with them. 
 

Then comes the relationship- more emotional commitment, not having sex with other people, introducing friends/family groups. Going “social media official”.

Then living together/getting engaged.

Then marriage. 

[ifionlyknew]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

To my peer group “dating” is the getting to know you period before you were exclusive (sexually and romantically)- like going to activities, maybe having sex/hooking up- seeing if you liked them enough to be exclusive with them. 
 

Then comes the relationship- more emotional commitment, not having sex with other people, introducing friends/family groups. Going “social media official”.

Yes I wanted dating and not a relationship.  I think in my age group (45-60) there is difference between what women want and what men want.  Where I live (in a small town in a rural state) single women my age who are single don't want to be single.  I was the only single woman in my circle of friends and family. And I was only single because my husband died.  The women here are looking to find someone to settle down with again.  Men on the other hand are not.  They are looking to sow whatever wild oats they have left.

I do think there needs to be a show about people in their 50s and how different things are now.

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, ifionlyknew said:

Yes I wanted dating and not a relationship.  I think in my age group (45-60) there is difference between what women want and what men want.  Where I live (in a small town in a rural state) single women my age who are single don't want to be single.  I was the only single woman in my circle of friends and family. And I was only single because my husband died.  The women here are looking to find someone to settle down with again.  Men on the other hand are not.  They are looking to sow whatever wild oats they have left.

I do think there needs to be a show about people in their 50s and how different things are now.

I am 36, and I have always lived in cities (I grew up and live in Chicago)- so I know expectations are really different in different social groups. 
 

From what I see of a lot people I know in their 50s/60s that aren’t married/partnered- both men and women would like a consistent SO for travel, recreation, sex, affection etc but don’t want to combine resources or live together- they have had children (if they wanted them) and would like to keep their own space while they finish raising their kids but would like the benefits of a romantic relationship. 
 

The thing is, is the mid-to late 50s is when the gender imbalance REALLY starts to skew against heterosexual women; of the men that available (as in not partnered or looking for a younger woman), many have health issues, and the men do die first. Also- women tend to have a wider network of social support than men. A woman not being in a romantic relationship doesn’t mean she doesn’t get her emotional needs met, it might mean that for a similarly situationed man (toxic masculinity at its finest). 
 

My grandfather lived to be 89, he was an outlier that outlived his wife by 25 years- he had a long term girlfriend that I knew well (her husband had also passed away), but let me tell you, his caregiver and I would drive around the southside of Chicago picking up treats all of these gorgeous older women had made for him, because in his 80s there were 6 women for every man!
 

Now of course 80 isn’t 55 (and I didn’t think that even at 12/13 years old when I was picking up these treats) but I can see how if you’re a woman in your mid-50s who’s heterosexual you can be amazing but pickings are slim from a pure numbers perspective! I would’ve liked to see that if they wanted to show dating in your 50s. 

[ifionlyknew]

21 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

The thing is, is the mid-to late 50s is when the gender imbalance REALLY starts to skew against heterosexual women; of the men that available (as in not partnered or looking for a younger woman), many have health issues, and the men do die first. Also- women tend to have a wider network of social support than men. A woman not being in a romantic relationship doesn’t mean she doesn’t get her emotional needs met, it might mean that for a similarly situationed man (toxic masculinity at its finest). 

All true.  A single man in his 50s has a wide dating pool.  He can date women in his 20s if he wants.  But single women in their 50s don't have a lot of choices. We can go older but like you said you run the risk of them having health problems.  We can go younger but depending on how  younger you go you run the risk of them wanting children eventually.  

Women in their 50s no longer look like the Golden Girls.  We do look like the women on AJLT. We are still vibrant and fun and not quite ready for the assisted living facility and I'm disappointed this show didn't do us justice. 

[Scarlett45]

20 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

Women in their 50s no longer look like the Golden Girls.  We do look like the women on AJLT. We are still vibrant and fun and not quite ready for the assisted living facility and I'm disappointed this show didn't do us justice. 

The Golden Girls were pretty hip for their time! And very stylish and sexually active. But I think the thing is, in the 80s, the typical woman was done raising children in her 50s (she may have been caring for elderly parents though)- in the 2020s, a woman in her 50s that did have biological children may have children that are pubescent and very much still need to be raised.

I think that puts a kink into dating too. Not that single parents cannot date, but its entire other layer when you have small children, and the other person has small children, and you are juggling co-parenting with an ex. Childfree people have it easier in some ways. A good friend of mine is doing IVF right now as a single woman at age 41. A few years ago she got out of a bad relationship (not abuse or anything but he was stringing her along) and started dating again. She is very attractive and fun to be around- a real catch. But all of the "good men" she came across, either 1. didn't want more kids (and still had little kids), or 2. didn't want kids at all. I told her to go younger (like 30, not like anyone would know) but she decided to go to the sperm bank and do the IVF.

At 36 I am finding a lot of my peers are either partnered, or have LITTLE kids. I don't mind seeing a man with teenaged children, but I am childfree for a reason.

[ifionlyknew]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think that puts a kink into dating too. Not that single parents cannot date, but its entire other layer when you have small children, and the other person has small children, and you are juggling co-parenting with an ex.

One of my friends said it's impossible to for single parents to date and do both well.  What he meant was if you are a single parent and you focus more on your children your dating life will suffer and if you are a single parent and you focus more on your dating life your children will suffer.  

I was a single parent up until my son was 6.  I didn't date much.  I had to find a babysitter which wasn't always easy.  When I became involved with the man who eventually became my  husband I introduced him to my son before I normally would have because it was easier than to always keep my home life and dating life separate.  

We saw a little bit of what it was like for Miranda as a single mother dating.  It isn't easy.

[RealHousewife]

On 1/21/2022 at 11:57 AM, Scarlett45 said:

The Golden Girls were pretty hip for their time! And very stylish and sexually active. But I think the thing is, in the 80s, the typical woman was done raising children in her 50s (she may have been caring for elderly parents though)- in the 2020s, a woman in her 50s that did have biological children may have children that are pubescent and very much still need to be raised.

I think that puts a kink into dating too. Not that single parents cannot date, but its entire other layer when you have small children, and the other person has small children, and you are juggling co-parenting with an ex. Childfree people have it easier in some ways. A good friend of mine is doing IVF right now as a single woman at age 41. A few years ago she got out of a bad relationship (not abuse or anything but he was stringing her along) and started dating again. She is very attractive and fun to be around- a real catch. But all of the "good men" she came across, either 1. didn't want more kids (and still had little kids), or 2. didn't want kids at all. I told her to go younger (like 30, not like anyone would know) but she decided to go to the sperm bank and do the IVF.

At 36 I am finding a lot of my peers are either partnered, or have LITTLE kids. I don't mind seeing a man with teenaged children, but I am childfree for a reason.

I prefer dating men without kids. Some people might take that the wrong way. I love kids, don't mind having them around. I'm also not the type who demands a lot of time. I'm quite introverted and used to being single, so kids coming first is no problem. I just get leery because the mothers can be very difficult, to put it mildly, and then if a man has 2-3 or more, I figure he has his family. I haven't ruled out having kids of my own. Dating in your 30s is probably trickier for everyone. Ideally though, those with kids can date one another, and those who are still childfree can date one another. 

[Scarlett45]

Quoting @CeeBeeGee from The episode 10 thread. 

Quote

Hey! Some of us pale-skinned blue-eyed blondes like wearing orange, it brings out our eyes :)

Yes, I think pale blondes and brown persons look quite nice in orange, and jewel tones in general but especially turquoise. I bet you look gorgeous in turquoise. Those with red/auburn hair look amazing in green and rich purples- color wheel and all.

 

I LOVE wearing orange, it’s one of my signature colors in the summer. Orange and pink together are fine, it just depends on the hue (I don’t care for pink so I don’t wear it). 

[Scarlett45]

On 1/24/2022 at 2:21 PM, RealHousewife said:

I prefer dating men without kids. Some people might take that the wrong way. I love kids, don't mind having them around. I'm also not the type who demands a lot of time. I'm quite introverted and used to being single, so kids coming first is no problem. I just get leery because the mothers can be very difficult, to put it mildly, and then if a man has 2-3 or more, I figure he has his family. I haven't ruled out having kids of my own. Dating in your 30s is probably trickier for everyone. Ideally though, those with kids can date one another, and those who are still childfree can date one another. 

I prefer dating men without kids too. But I know as I get older its statistically likely people will have children. 

[CeeBeeGee]

32 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yes, I think pale blondes and brown persons look quite nice in orange, and jewel tones in general but especially turquoise. I bet you look gorgeous in turquoise. Those with red/auburn hair look amazing in green and rich purples- color wheel and all.

I LOVE wearing orange, it’s one of my signature colors in the summer. Orange and pink together are fine, it just depends on the hue (I don’t care for pink so I don’t wear it). 

Yes! I have a long suede turquoise coat with a lavish fake-fur collar. I bought it in San Francisco--walked into a boutique and the saleslady sized me up immediately and urged me to try it on, saying "this color is great for blondes." One of my favorites! That saleslady really knew her stuff.

I used to love pink (like, in high school) and then I realized, pale pink does nothing for me, I need to set off my skin. So I started gravitating toward bolder, brighter colors (like jewel tones).

[Scarlett45]

42 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Yes! I have a long suede turquoise coat with a lavish fake-fur collar. I bought it in San Francisco--walked into a boutique and the saleslady sized me up immediately and urged me to try it on, saying "this color is great for blondes." One of my favorites! That saleslady really knew her stuff.

I used to love pink (like, in high school) and then I realized, pale pink does nothing for me, I need to set off my skin. So I started gravitating toward bolder, brighter colors (like jewel tones).

I love jewel tones too! I never wear pastels, I don’t think I look great in them (even with my summer tan), same thing with white. I also think they make me look REALLY YOUNG. I don’t do pink, but hot pink is prettier than pastel pink on most people I think. 
 

But give me oranges, yellows, vibrant greens and turquoise in the summer, in the winter I wear a lot of Hunter green and plum, also navy with grey. I have been having a hard time finding an orange lipstick for this spring. I want ORANGE- not reddish orange but ORANGE, something to dupe Ultra Mad by Dior but cheaper than $38. 

[LemonSoda]

On 2/5/2022 at 7:56 PM, Scarlett45 said:

I love jewel tones too! I never wear pastels, I don’t think I look great in them (even with my summer tan), same thing with white. I also think they make me look REALLY YOUNG. I don’t do pink, but hot pink is prettier than pastel pink on most people I think. 
 

But give me oranges, yellows, vibrant greens and turquoise in the summer, in the winter I wear a lot of Hunter green and plum, also navy with grey. I have been having a hard time finding an orange lipstick for this spring. I want ORANGE- not reddish orange but ORANGE, something to dupe Ultra Mad by Dior but cheaper than $38. 

Have you tried any of Maybelline’s oranges? Electric Orange is pretty nice. I wear MAC’s Morange a lot too. 

[Scarlett45]

22 hours ago, LemonSoda said:

Have you tried any of Maybelline’s oranges? Electric Orange is pretty nice. I wear MAC’s Morange a lot too. 

No i will investigate thank you!

[RealHousewife]

On 2/5/2022 at 8:58 PM, Scarlett45 said:

I prefer dating men without kids too. But I know as I get older its statistically likely people will have children. 

Definitely. I'm more open to it than I was several years ago. But now it's more like one kid and the mom is cool? Sounds good. I had the biggest crush on this one father of three. His ex sounds like a nice woman, but that's just SO many kids to me. Very few people want more than 2-3 kids so I probably couldn't have any with him. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by RealHousewife

[Tattooeddancer]

On 2/5/2022 at 8:39 PM, Scarlett45 said:

Quoting @CeeBeeGee from The episode 10 thread. 

Yes, I think pale blondes and brown persons look quite nice in orange, and jewel tones in general but especially turquoise. I bet you look gorgeous in turquoise. Those with red/auburn hair look amazing in green and rich purples- color wheel and all.

 

I have red hair (coppery, not orange) and green eyes and while I love it, I'm so jealous of those who don't have to worry about their outfit clashing with their hair lol.

Olive green is my best color. I can pull off certain shades of red. But I prefer black over everything, even though I've been told it washes me out, and I have an orange cat that leaves his fur all over everything.

[TakomaSnark]

3 hours ago, Tattooeddancer said:

I have an orange cat that leaves his fur all over everything

Awwww he's just leaving his love everywhere 💜

[Scarlett45]

So in my lipstick hunt- I am a prissy ass spoiled baby princess- I just hunted down my Ultra Mad from the Dior website (could not find it at Sephora or Nordstrom) because while the Mac Morange, and the Vice by Urban Decay lipstick I bought was pretty in the tube (and the urban decay was comfy to wear, I loved the packaging)- the color was not PIGMENTED enough to lay down enough orange COLOR to get a smooth look over my brown lips! My lips are a pinky brown, so darker than the bright orange, and even though I prepped and blotted blah blah blah, it was a streaky mess. NO. I would rather pay $38 and have it look nice. 

So I did that- taking the other colors back. IF someone has lips lighter than the shade they are trying to purchase, the Vice by Urban decay was very nice.

[Scarlett45]

I just got back from escorting my Mom to a bday party in Las Vegas (the parents had a better time than us, we were there to direct the mobility scooter and carry the bags), and on the way back we saw a group of middle aged Deltas (likely 50s) in the airport! Made me think of seeing Mother Wesley with her friends in episode 2.

[xls]

Quote

 

I wish this show and others like it would stop glamorizing the incredibly cruel Berkin bag! shame!😥

 https://www.peta.org/blog/alligator-farm-leather-skins/

 

[T Summer]

I left a review of a movie Sarah Jessica Parker starred in from 2018 called Here and Now somewhere on this website and forgot to follow the topic.

I thought it was under Everything Else/Popular Culture/Movies but I've looked  and messaged the moderator there and it's apparently not there.

I went to the SATC board to see if there were any topics like Cast in other projects, but there's not.

Does anyone have any ideas as to how to find it? When I click activity under my own name it only goes back so far.

 

 

[chitowngirl]

1 hour ago, T Summer said:

I left a review of a movie Sarah Jessica Parker starred in from 2018 called Here and Now somewhere on this website and forgot to follow the topic.

I thought it was under Everything Else/Popular Culture/Movies but I've looked  and messaged the moderator there and it's apparently not there.

I went to the SATC board to see if there were any topics like Cast in other projects, but there's not.

Does anyone have any ideas as to how to find it? When I click activity under my own name it only goes back so far.

 

 

Maybe somewhere in the Sex and the City vault here?

[T Summer]

1 hour ago, chitowngirl said:

Maybe somewhere in the Sex and the City vault here?

Hello my friend from the Project Runway forum,😊

I thank you for that, I will probably enjoy reading it.

 I think I might have worded it clumsily. I left the review in the past year; the movie is from 2018. 🤔

[realityplease]

On 7/23/2023 at 7:42 AM, T Summer said:

Hello my friend from the Project Runway forum,😊

I thank you for that, I will probably enjoy reading it.

 I think I might have worded it clumsily. I left the review in the past year; the movie is from 2018. 🤔

I just ran across it - You put it in the "And Just Like That" forum, and the thread is "Cast & Crew - OK, Seriously, No Kim Catrall?" 

You wrote it on January 29 of this year - You placed the review in a spoiler.  Good review by the way.  Movie sounded like a real dog.

Edited July 25, 2023 by realityplease

[T Summer]

1 hour ago, realityplease said:

I just ran across it - You put it in the "And Just Like That" forum, and the thread is "Cast & Crew - OK, Seriously, No Kim Catrall?" 

You wrote it on January 29 of this year - You placed the review in a spoiler.  Good review by the way.  Movie sounded like a real dog.

Oh my Goodness! Thank you so much!

I didn't even think to look in the AJLT section.

Yes, that thing dragged on 🥱

[Scarlett45]

I have a question for @JohnM from the episode thread. 
 

Thank you for your personal insight about large age gaps being more common in your community.

I wonder if this is more common in your community of gay men than in a heteronormative framework because constraints of biological reproduction aren’t the first consideration for any of the couples?

I only bring this up because as a childfree woman my cousin suggested to me I date older, that most single men my age that are single are either knee deep in childcare or looking to reproduce. (I’m 37, she’s suggesting I go up to 50) Because at 50 they either KNOW they are childfree or if they have children they are less likely to have little children. But I couldn’t see myself going too much older than that because I’m not interested in being anyone else’s caregiver (what I assume a man in his 60s/70s would want a younger woman for). I’m responsible for my Mom and my sister that it’s PLENTY.
 

Of course same sex couples have families together, and that has to be considered when people partner up, but something tells me that that as a heterosexual woman still of reproductive age my childfree status comes up sooner than if I were a similarly positioned gay man.

Am I making any sense?

[John M]

On 8/11/2023 at 1:32 PM, Scarlett45 said:

I have a question for @JohnM from the episode thread. 
 

Thank you for your personal insight about large age gaps being more common in your community.

I wonder if this is more common in your community of gay men than in a heteronormative framework because constraints of biological reproduction aren’t the first consideration for any of the couples?

I only bring this up because as a childfree woman my cousin suggested to me I date older, that most single men my age that are single are either knee deep in childcare or looking to reproduce. (I’m 37, she’s suggesting I go up to 50) Because at 50 they either KNOW they are childfree or if they have children they are less likely to have little children. But I couldn’t see myself going too much older than that because I’m not interested in being anyone else’s caregiver (what I assume a man in his 60s/70s would want a younger woman for). I’m responsible for my Mom and my sister that it’s PLENTY.
 

Of course same sex couples have families together, and that has to be considered when people partner up, but something tells me that that as a heterosexual woman still of reproductive age my childfree status comes up sooner than if I were a similarly positioned gay man.

Am I making any sense?

I think it is big part of it, but in a more complicated way. There is much less pressure to have to have children, with family, society and peers, for many gay people having children is an expensive and complicated process so it both self-selects for much more socially and financially stable couples in general and couples that REALLY want children.

I do think the large age gaps are partly because of the child factor, but also I think that when having children is no longer a societal pressure you start to arrange your life in a way that prioritizes other things and you start casting a wider social net for potential partners and age becomes less a factor than lifestyle and lifestyle can mean a lot of things.

I mean, I kind of even hate to say this because the gay community is already viewed as over-sexualized, but just an example, my husband's ex-partner (Who we are still good friends with) wanted an open-relationship, a more one-sided open relationship, one that he could flaunt on his partner. And his now husband kind of has a flare for the dramatic and a bit of a princess complex which he is willing to indulge, and his husband is OK with the one sided sexual openness that he is willing to indulge. They are completely compatible even with the age difference.

I guess the best way to put it, there is a lid for every pot, without the pressure to marry and have children quickly, my experience is that gay men are more willing to wait around for the tightest fitting lid and that lid can be significantly younger or older.

Edited August 12, 2023 by John M

[Scarlett45]

Thanks @John M that makes a lot of sense. 

[John M]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Thanks @John M that makes a lot of sense. 

Someone in the other thread also mentioned caring or an aging partner and the limitations that may bring, you have to remember, AIDS is very much part of a lot of our lived experience, caring for partners in declining health is just, unfortunately, very normalized in our community.

Even today I see, well, it's hard to describe to someone outside of the 40+ gay community, in the 90s there was a lot of deep aromantic partnerships that formed with people that both very much reasonably thought one or both of them were going to die soon of AIDS. There were a lot of people that were saved by just months of certain death by new treatments.

Even with these treatment, many of these people suffered from severe complications and their partners stuck around, now many of these people are entering the final stage of life because of age and disability and the partners are still around.

There is also this kind of a thing in the gay community, especially in the aging population, of like extreme BFFs where they are no longer romantically or sexually involved but have a deep co-habituating household partnership.

Again, to sum up something really complicated, when you aren't under pressure in your 20s to marry and have children and society already looks at your "lifestyle" and relationships with destain and revulsion, it really gives kind of a permission structure to just do whatever makes you happy and happy can mean a lot of things outside of the heteronormative relationship structure.

 

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, John M said:

Someone in the other thread also mentioned caring or an aging partner and the limitations that may bring, you have to remember, AIDS is very much part of a lot of our lived experience, caring for partners in declining health is just, unfortunately, very normalized in our community.

Even today I see, well, it's hard to describe to someone outside of the 40+ gay community, in the 90s there was a lot of deep aromantic partnerships that formed with people that both very much reasonably thought one or both of them were going to die soon of AIDS. There were a lot of people that were saved by just months of certain death by new treatments.

Even with these treatment, many of these people suffered from severe complications and their partners stuck around, now many of these people are entering the final stage of life because of age and disability and the partners are still around.

There is also this kind of a thing in the gay community, especially in the aging population, of like extreme BFFs where they are no longer romantically or sexually involved but have a deep co-habituating household partnership.

Again, to sum up something really complicated, when you aren't under pressure in your 20s to marry and have children and society already looks at your "lifestyle" and relationships with destain and revulsion, it really gives kind of a permission structure to just do whatever makes you happy and happy can mean a lot of things outside of the heteronormative relationship structure.

 

That makes sense too. Also I am sure many in the gay community embrace their family of choice (which often includes former partners) at a greater rate than the heteronormative community does because of hatred, bigotry and hostility from their family of origin that is all too common. 
 

I think I’m the person that mentioned caring for an aging /ill partner, I’ve been a caregiver essentially my entire life, my grandfather was 100% blind due to glaucoma and he lived with us (along with other health issues) and he was going through dementia as my sister who has a severe mental disability was going through puberty (she’s 35 now, her cognitive age is about 18months -2yrs, she’s non verbal, requires 24/7 supervision etc). Now I’ve just got her and my mom to look after (my other relatives that I cared for are deceased) and we talk about this in the Sister Wives forum- I wish I could get stats on how many of us that have always been caregivers (either due to the number of siblings we had or family members with disabilities) choose to be childfree. 
 

Of course I believe when you choose a life partner caregiving (if they need it) comes with the territory, one of the reasons I’ve never been eager to have a partner. But the pandemic hit and I’m older now and my dating life was has dried up, and my cousin (age 55) suggested someone older and it made sense to me. We shall see!

[realityplease]

On 8/11/2023 at 11:32 AM, Scarlett45 said:

. . .(I’m 37, she’s suggesting I go up to 50) Because at 50 they either KNOW they are childfree or if they have children they are less likely to have little children. But I couldn’t see myself going too much older than that because I’m not interested in being anyone else’s caregiver (what I assume a man in his 60s/70s would want a younger woman for).

Not so sure about that.  A man in his 60s/70s sometimes wants a younger woman because he doesn't want to date a woman his age.  Maybe that would remind him how old HE is.  Maybe HE doesn't want to be a caregiver for HER as she ages.  Maybe he wants a less aged woman.  But whatever reason, if a guy thinks he's still attractive enough, or if not, at least solvent enough, to attract a woman even 25 years younger or more, many go for it.  Others won't. 

As for HIM looking for a caregiver, there's a certain type of guy who's not into equality, has no qualms about working (unless nearing retirement) - but at ANY stage of his life, young or old, essentially wants someone to take care of him in all other respects.  A guy like that when young, isn't necessarily less demanding when he's older.  Many don't particularly anticipate getting older & unhealthy, but if it happens, being a caregiver might become a reality, anticipated or not.  On the other hand, a 35 year old woman may get sick along the way - stuff happens - & he'd have to be a caregiver for her.  Nothing in life is guaranteed to turn out the way you think it will be.  (Someone's in their 70's might never need a caregiver - there's some pretty spry 60, 70, even 80 year olds - though that's not the usual media portrayal.  And some folks act old & decrepit at 50, though you wouldn't think that would be the case.  Wide variance - no guarantees.  You could date someone your own age who unexpectedly gets sick - and there you are - caregiving.  So why make that a consideration - or pass up several decades of good times because it MIGHT, someday down the road, be a consideration.  After all, you will age as well.  

As for children, many is the 60 year old or older who dates the 35 year old or younger who wants children - and guess what - there's old gramps chasing a two-year old around a playground - only it's his child - not grandchild.  Look at DeNiro and Pacino. Every situation is different. Generalization impossible. Each couple works it out for themselves.  Find the guy instead of the fantasy - then consider that particular situation.  Knowing that whatever your anticipated outcome - it may or may not happen the way you think it will.

Big was older but Carrie thought he'd be around for longer. He wasn't.  If things work out with Aiden, though closer in age - no guarantees they'd get old together - or whether one or the other would need a caregiver at some point & the other able to do it.  In a long life, lots happens. (Even in a fantasy made-up life.) 

Edited August 13, 2023 by realityplease

[Scarlett45]

You’re very right @realityplease- probably all the reason I shouldn’t be with anyone!😉

[realityplease]

Just now, Scarlett45 said:

You’re very right @realityplease- probably all the reason I shouldn’t be with anyone!😉

Well, you seem like you have a lot to offer.  With a bit of luck or fate or whatever, hopefully someone crosses your path who will have a lot to offer you.  And if not, that you'll make a great life out of the life that happens and the options given.  

[Scarlett45]

2 minutes ago, realityplease said:

Well, you seem like you have a lot to offer.  With a bit of luck or fate or whatever, hopefully someone crosses your path who will have a lot to offer you.  And if not, that you'll make a great life out of the life that happens and the options given.  

Awwww you’re so sweet thank you. I’m going to blush!

But I can admit expanding my age range on apps can’t hurt! (I’m currently set to see men 35-50yrs old)

[T Summer]

Any nightowls or very early risers watching The Women of Sex and the City on E at 4:00 am. Wed morning?