S01.E08: The 214s

[ganesh]

I think it was a mistake for Cameron to be so isolated from everyone else at the start of the series. She didn't really have anything to work with. Since she wasn't allowed to talk to Gordon, it would have been a better choice for her to interact with Bos more. 

[Jeebus Cripes]

My main problem is that the characters seem to be drawn so unevenly. I don't know if its the time jump or if something got cut. The Joe at the beginning of this series, the one we were convinced was Patrick Bateman Part II doesn't seem like the same Joe who would turn to Cameron with seemingly genuine puppy dog eyes and say "I'll miss you." And the issues with Cameron and Gordon have been beaten to death since the start.

 

I wondered about that line. If he was lying or being sincere. I still don't know.

[kieyra]

I think it was a mistake for Cameron to be so isolated from everyone else at the start of the series. She didn't really have anything to work with. Since she wasn't allowed to talk to Gordon, it would have been a better choice for her to interact with Bos more.

 

 

It was extra weird because there was a real, organic character in there, one that we all knew should be there, and they kept either hiding her or making her behave, too frequently, like a feral animal. 

 

It's like they tried to contort these characters into unnatural positions (personality-wise) for the sake of being obtuse and therefore...artsy and AMC?...but it often just felt weird and inconsistently written.

Edited July 25, 2014 by kieyra

[Yolapukka]

I was fine with Cameron being isolated, not merely because there was an realistic plot-based reason to do so but the drama that was going on in the company was related to the immediate and disastrous effects of Joe forcing them into developing a PC. There is no drama in having the consequent layoffs take place offscreen and no point in inserting Cameron into scenes with day-players instead of doing what she's there for. The one exception with Randy(?) and the bowling shoes was an effective moment. . She did have significant scenes with characters who were around for the long haul; Debbie, Barry, Bosworth, Gordon, eventually Donna and always Joe. I wish there had been more with Barry, not just with her but others as well. I think there is a difference between the notion that the character was kept isolated because of the nature of her early work and the reality that she interacted directly with a lot of other characters in ways that were significant and led directly to developing relationships in subsequent shows. I can't say I have an issue with her early, feral nature either. Her behaviour was far from root-able at times but it was in keeping with what her character was supposed to be, a somewhat immature, strong-minded, knee-jerk rebel. So what if she was also an obnoxious asshole? There isn't much stake in a character who is all outer quirk and inner light. I'm profoundly grateful that we weren't subjected to scenes of her showing her free spirit by twirling or rabbiting on about how coding makes her feel like she's plucking the stars. If she's supposed to be rebellious I think we needed to glimpse her potential for chaos, danger and heedless bad behaviour. Her attraction for nonconformity needed to be more than an unladylike appearance and repetitive scenes of her cranking punk rock on her headphones. I liked how the necessary segregation of her work was neatly framed by her joining a company full of middle-aged men in short-sleeved button-down shirts with whom she had minimal points of common reference and  who looked at her like a bug and then her emergence into a smaller workplace that contained a fair number of her contemporaries who found her admirable and had perspectives similar to her own.  I really wish they would develop some of those characters, I'd like to see more of Cooper Andrew's YoYo than his great reaction faces and a love of spray cheese. 

 

 

And the issues with Cameron and Gordon have been beaten to death since the start

 

 

 

They did nothing with it except have Gordon be consistently hateful while she responded with dismissive contempt, episode after episode. Ugh. There was something potentially fascinating in it too, in that Gordon had been wooed by Joe into taking a huge, risky leap, told he was a star and an inspiration and then there's Cameron, the shiny new toy and he gets dumped and taken for granted. It was a like a romantic triangle without romantic competition. At least the pizza scene at Joe's apartment was a delightful payoff for putting up with their antics.

Edited July 25, 2014 by yuggapukka

[LJonEarth]

And the issues with Cameron and Gordon have been beaten to death since the start.

 

Let me clarify what I meant here. I meant there have been issues with the ways that each of these characters have been written, and those issues have been pretty well dissected all over these threads.

 

I didn't mean that there have been issues with Cameron and Gordon's relationship with each other. That's probably the only part of the story I haven't had an issue with, aside from wishing that everyone could just get along.

 

 

It's like they tried to contort these characters into unnatural positions (personality-wise) for the sake of being obtuse and therefore...artsy and AMC?...but it often just felt weird and inconsistently written.

 

This is more along the lines of where I was trying to go.

[DangerousMinds]

Donna's boss should have recommended her to take over his position when he resigned. He knew she would do a better job than he could.

[Kel Varnsen]

I thought this episode was interesting. Especially when Gordon and Donna were talking he mentioned she used to be as crazy as he was. I am wondering if he meant just in a typical way where she is a young hot girl from Texas away from home for the first time living in California "let's get crazy!" sort of way or if there was something more to that. It would be interesting if there was since it would finally explain to me what she saw in him. I wonder if the show and the actor would consider shaving Gordon's beard so they could do a flashback scene in the finale?

 

The thing with the cops and Boz has me interested too. I am not sure how they can make that go away. I mean even if they sell a million computers and old man Cardiff says he wants to drop the charges, the crime was also against the bank and not him. I am not sure there is any way they could make that go away. I mean it is not like they had online banking back then.

 

Also I looked it up and the drive from Dallas to Vegas is about 18 hours. I wonder if we will see any of the time in the car next episode?

Edited July 25, 2014 by Kel Varnsen

[dubbel zout]

Who will be the first to suggest singing "99 Bottles of Beer on the Wall"? Who will be the first to be threatened with being thrown out of the car?

[Kel Varnsen]

Also is anyone else kind of creeped out by the Joe/Cameron sex scenes? Between her hair cut and her body type she looks so much younger than him (especially this week where you saw the angle from behind her where she was up against the fence) it looks almost like he is breaking some kind of law.

[ganesh]

It was extra weird because there was a real, organic character in there, one that we all knew should be there, and they kept either hiding her or making her behave, too frequently, like a feral animal.

 

 

They really spent way too long on setup. It seems from reading this board (zomg boards on boards but I'm relating it to my interpretation of the episode) that this episode is really where the show found its footing and by and large this was good and entertaining. The finding of the footing has to happen earlier than an E8. 

 

I was fine with Cameron being isolated, not merely because there was an realistic plot-based reason to do so but the drama that was going on in the company was related to the immediate and disastrous effects of Joe forcing them into developing a PC.

 

For the story, if this was a book, it makes sense. Tv-wise it's hard for an actor to be alone like that and it's not smart tv execution. Yes, she interacted with others, but barely and briefly. She didn't really interact with those people she took to the hotel room, she was kind of just there.

 

You look at her relationship with Bos and their very very nice scene together in this episode. I can buy that this relationship developed. But rather than what we got in the first few episodes, they could have sprinkled in some more interaction there. Maybe one less scene of Gordon at home here, one less of Joe and his bat there. 

[88Keys]

The term "Bat of Symbolism" is making me laugh.  Perfect.

[qtpye]

There isn't much stake in a character who is all outer quirk and inner light. I'm profoundly grateful that we weren't subjected to scenes of her showing her free spirit by twirling or rabbiting on about how coding makes her feel like she's plucking the stars.

 

 

So you do not want Cameron to be a manic pixie dream girl?  I guess I do not complement the writers a whole lot (though, I thought the last episode was pretty good), but thank god they did not model Cameron on this overdone trope.  Heck, I guess Joe is more apt to fit the description of manic pixie dream boy (maybe he wants to be like his mother).

[DangerousMinds]

Also is anyone else kind of creeped out by the Joe/Cameron sex scenes? Between her hair cut and her body type she looks so much younger than him (especially this week where you saw the angle from behind her where she was up against the fence) it looks almost like he is breaking some kind of law.

Yes, I agree! And funny that almost no one else has mentioned it. If their ages/genders were reversed, I have a feeling there would be many comments about how "she's too old for him - ewwww!" Sigh. And it's 2014.

[Kel Varnsen]

Yes, I agree! And funny that almost no one else has mentioned it. If their ages/genders were reversed, I have a feeling there would be many comments about how "she's too old for him - ewwww!" Sigh. And it's 2014.

It doesn't help that when shot from behind with her shirt of with her hair and her body type Cameron looks like a teenaged boy. So the sex scene in this ep kind of creeped me out.

[GaT]

It doesn't help that when shot from behind with her shirt of with her hair and her body type Cameron looks like a teenaged boy. So the sex scene in this ep kind of creeped me out.

I wonder if that was deliberate, We know that Joe is bisexual, maybe he actually leans more towards being homosexual & prefers females with a boyish shape.

[ganesh]

I think the actor playing Cameron is a good looking woman. I like women with short hair. She happens to be slim, but I think it's not entirely fair to call a short-haired slim woman "boyish." She's clearly female and I don't think the character intended us to think otherwise. I think her look is indicative of a 1983 punk/alt chick. 

[GaT]

I think the actor playing Cameron is a good looking woman. I like women with short hair. She happens to be slim, but I think it's not entirely fair to call a short-haired slim woman "boyish." She's clearly female and I don't think the character intended us to think otherwise. I think her look is indicative of a 1983 punk/alt chick. 

I don't mean to imply she looks like a boy, just that she's more narrow hipped & small breasted than curvy & large breasted.

[ketose]

I think the sex scenes are jarring because they are jarring. AMC seems to think this is important to maintain an audience. The tension between Donna and her boss was sexier. The sexiest thing I've seen so far is the Cardiff Giant which is way ahead of it's time in 1983.