S15.E15: Gimme Shelter

[KayCordingly]

Was anyone else disappointed that this episode wasn't about a demonic teddy bear?

[Katy M]

12 minutes ago, KayCordingly said:

Was anyone else disappointed that this episode wasn't about a demonic teddy bear?

I'm always disappointed when episodes aren't about demonic teddy bears.

[KayCordingly]

Also, when the show revealed Sylvia's victim tied up with a contraption on her hand and the tv turned on, I half-expected a clown puppet face to appear and a low gravelly voice to say "Hello Valerie. I want to play a game."

Talk about wearing your influences on your sleeve.

 

Also also, was this a post-Covid episode? I was literally just talking with my wife about how they claimed to have less people on set and were practicing social distancing, so it would be interesting to see how they got around the fact that the boys often participate in a round of fisticuffs with their enemies. Then I swear less than a minute later, the pastor was praying with a guy, put his hand on his should and then gives him a big ol' hug! 😂

Edited October 20, 2020 by KayCordingly

[Aeryn13]

12 minutes ago, KayCordingly said:

Also, when the show revealed Sylvia's victim tied up with a contraption on her hand and the tv turned on, I half-expected a clown puppet face to appear and a low gravelly voice to say "Hello Valerie. I want to play a game."

Talk about wearing your influences on your sleeve.

 

Also also, was this a post-Covid episode? I was literally just talking with my wife about how they claimed to have less people on set and were practicing social distancing, so it would be interesting to see how they got around the fact that the boys often participate in a round of fisticuffs with their enemies. Then I swear less than a minute later, the pastor was praying with a guy, put his hand on his should and then gives him a big ol' hug! 😂

Nope, up to episode 18 everything was filmed pre-shutdown. Only the last two eps were filmed afterwards. It might be noticeable then.

[Castiels Cat]

8 hours ago, Katy M said:

I'm always disappointed when episodes aren't about demonic teddy bears.

I remember a depressed suicidal teddy bear. Which episode had a demonic teddy bear?

[Castiels Cat]

On 10/19/2020 at 8:26 AM, Terese said:

I love your questions. And they made me laugh. I felt upon revisit of Amara's comment in season 11, that having the ability to create was her propaganda or Buck/Lemming having completely failed in understanding the concept of the Darkness. I was surprised that Chuck can destroy and felt that may have explained why he put Leviathan in Purgatory. I would have been equally surprised if Amara could create. But that was then. Maybe?!? Because Amara was very clear about Chuck being creation and she destruction, over peirogis. 

I thought the multiverses would be the natural occurrence of conflicting human choices, born of dilemma, that had to be played out somewhere. Mary had to make that deal. Mary could not make that deal. Bobby shot his father. Bobby could not bring himself to shoot his father. Instead it was failed drafts and shallow nonsense. 

Honestly, I don't think they know and just wing it from writer to writer. I don't know what their point even is. And as you say new canon puts a wrench in everything. It leaves no room for speculation and reasonable theory, or anticipation of how it will all come out. When what was true yesterday, is not true today, tomorrow gets lost. 

Once Chuck became a writer the multiverse were always going to be other drafts of Chuck's story... and  judging by the AU and the Bad Place they were abandoned drafts.

God the writer vs the main characters... it's worrisome for the show going out well when the actors pulled the plug on the show because of bad writing.

 

[Terese]

8 hours ago, KayCordingly said:

Also, when the show revealed Sylvia's victim tied up with a contraption on her hand and the tv turned on, I half-expected a clown puppet face to appear and a low gravelly voice to say "Hello Valerie. I want to play a game."

Talk about wearing your influences on your sleeve.

 

Also also, was this a post-Covid episode? I was literally just talking with my wife about how they claimed to have less people on set and were practicing social distancing, so it would be interesting to see how they got around the fact that the boys often participate in a round of fisticuffs with their enemies. Then I swear less than a minute later, the pastor was praying with a guy, put his hand on his should and then gives him a big ol' hug! 😂

This was pre- covid, with just 19 and 20 filmed when they returned.

Lol. Clowns are even more creepy when they want to play a game. 

[Terese]

24 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

Once Chuck became a writer the multiverse were always going to be other drafts of Chuck's story... and  judging by the AU and the Bad Place they were abandoned drafts.

God the writer vs the main characters... it's worrisome for the show going out well when the actors pulled the plug on the show because of bad writing.

 

Yes. I just found it rather disappointing. Parallel universes are fascinating in theory, whether quantum physics or fantasy. I like organic reasons, naturally occurring because of choices and circumstances. So much prefaced on one small idea, "Chuck wrote that." 

[Lemuria]

I apologize if this was already hashed out (I can't remember; I plead age!) but this episode was unbelievably unbelievable.  In The Mandalorian, I didn't have a problem with Carasynthia Dune fighting Mando to a standstill because Gina Carrano is built like a tank.  I did have a problem buying that the not-particularly large or muscular teenage girl could drag those other people around to a secret lair (then again, just exactly how did Becky get unconscious Sam up to her cabin?  She drove a crane up instead of her car?).  Then she builds that finger-cutting device (unless there's a hidden shelf at Home Depot) and ties it into the a TV timer. So a mechanical whiz and a tech genius.  Really?  They don't even try anymore.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Lemuria

[KayCordingly]

1 hour ago, Terese said:

This was pre- covid, with just 19 and 20 filmed when they returned.

Oh. Wait, if that's the case then why did they suddenly stop airing the episodes? Was it a post-production thing?

[Terese]

Just now, KayCordingly said:

Oh. Wait, if that's the case then why did they suddenly stop airing the episodes? Was it a post-production thing?

Yes. They weren't able to complete those tasks. 

[Terese]

34 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

I apologize if this was already hashed out (I can't remember; I plead age!) but this episode was unbelievably unbelievable.  In The Mandalorian, I didn't have a problem with Carasynthia Dune fighting Mando to a standstill because Gina Carrano is built like a tank.  I did have a problem buying that the not-particularly large or muscular teenage girl could drag those other people around to a secret lair (then again, just exactly how did Becky get unconscious Sam up to her cabin?  She drove a crane up instead of her car?).  Then she builds that finger-cutting device (unless there's a hidden shelf at Home Depot) and ties it into the a TV timer. So a mechanical whiz and a tech genius.  Really?  They don't even try anymore.

I felt the same way when the small middle aged woman, the BMOL leader, snapped the neck of the beefy hunter and tossed him over the railing. Yeah, the realism fails with these over the top scenarios.

[7kstar]

1 hour ago, Lemuria said:

apologize if this was already hashed out (I can't remember; I plead age!) but this episode was unbelievably unbelievable.  In The Mandalorian, I didn't have a problem with Carasynthia Dune fighting Mando to a standstill because Gina Carrano is built like a tank.  I did have a problem buying that the not-particularly large or muscular teenage girl could drag those other people around to a secret lair (then again, just exactly how did Becky get unconscious Sam up to her cabin?

Well, you answered my question.  Should I bother to finish the ep.  I'm letting go of cable, I do miss the days of a VCR but I'll probably check this site out before I watch the next ep.  Although I usually like the de-aged Dean and Sam.  It will be a shame if they can't even deliver on that. 

I still like Dean and Amara, but not sure I like what they have done with them in this ep.

[Katy M]

9 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

I remember a depressed suicidal teddy bear. Which episode had a demonic teddy bear?

None.  And that's the problem.

[Castiels Cat]

On 10/17/2020 at 4:28 PM, ahrtee said:

Kind of like the Impala being able to drive anywhere in the US in just a day or two (sometimes less)?😊

I have driven from LA to Cleveland in less than 3 days. These things are doable if shotgun shuts his pue hole and sleeps and then takes over driving when driver needs to sleep. I assume that's how they do it.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Castiels Cat

[Castiels Cat]

On 10/17/2020 at 5:49 PM, Smad said:

I actually think it's The Empty who is the mastermind. Do we even know if The Empty hasn't possessed Billie? But think about it from The Empty's POV...things keep waking up in it's realm and disturbing it. What would change that? Simple really, things need to be how they were before God created everything. In order to achieve that, God needs to go. If he goes then all creation goes and the Entity can go back to sleep for eternity.

And if Billie is not possessed, she might just be done with the constant violations. Even OG Death was annoyed by the constant screw ups and willing to move on to another planet. And that's really God's fault since his story is what causes it all. Imagine you work in the Post Office or something. You put the mail in the bags of the carriers and then someone comes by and not only takes it all out of the bags but mixes the mail up and then you have to fix all that mess up. Now expand that to the global/cosmic scale and what it might take to 'fix' that mess and it happens constantly thanks to God. You'd probably be tired too and want it all to end, even if means you go too.

Except that Chuck is out of control and destroying worlds and Death has books which show her possible futures which make her the show's Dr. Strange...

And Death has said he/she will reap God.

I thought that the Jack bomb thing was going to be flawed because they were blindly following this plan and it would turn out to be a bad plan.

Last week they told us why. JACK DIES IN THE EXECUTION OF IT. That is enough to stop it for TFW. They will find another way. 

Yes Dean did it however Chuck manipulated him to do it and Dean ended up going plan B and using family and love and his relationship with Amara to save the day.

IDK where they will go with this. Honestly... ID care. I cannot care. I cannot remember most of the details anymore because... so very meh.

I just think it has to be big on Dean because Chuck has made this about Dean and Dean is the one that got in his face and said we are going to stop you... or whatever awesome line he said which Jensen delivered with aplomb.

It is between those 2.

 

[Smad]

1 hour ago, Castiels Cat said:

Except that Chuck is out of control and destroying worlds and Death has books which show her possible futures which make her the show's Dr. Strange...

And they have so far failed to deliver God's POV in this whole storyline. We get nothing in terms of motivation or reason as to why God is doing what he's been doing since the S14 Finale. So far he's nothing but a mustache twirling a-hole smashing everything up because...no idea.

1 hour ago, Castiels Cat said:

And Death has said he/she will reap God.

I don't take anything Death says to heart. What makes you think the death books are not a concept written by God either or written by God for that matter? Unlike God, Amara and the Entity, Death is not one of the primordial beings apparently. Death doesn't exist as a singular entity outside the multiverse like they do since there are multiple Deaths. Death seems to be just a very powerful cosmic character but it could just as well be one of God's creations. In which case Death functions in whatever parameters God has set up. Death's background was also then subject to Chuck's writing (Death thinking they are as old as God or it's ability to reap him).

Of course trying to make sense of anything regarding these cosmic/primordial beings is pointless because of the ever changing and contradicting canon.

[Terese]

6 hours ago, Smad said:

And they have so far failed to deliver God's POV in this whole storyline. We get nothing in terms of motivation or reason as to why God is doing what he's been doing since the S14 Finale. So far he's nothing but a mustache twirling a-hole smashing everything up because...no idea.

I don't take anything Death says to heart. What makes you think the death books are not a concept written by God either or written by God for that matter? Unlike God, Amara and the Entity, Death is not one of the primordial beings apparently. Death doesn't exist as a singular entity outside the multiverse like they do since there are multiple Deaths. Death seems to be just a very powerful cosmic character but it could just as well be one of God's creations. In which case Death functions in whatever parameters God has set up. Death's background was also then subject to Chuck's writing (Death thinking they are as old as God or it's ability to reap him).

Of course trying to make sense of anything regarding these cosmic/primordial beings is pointless because of the ever changing and contradicting canon.

I so agree. Furthermore, we don't see or hear Chuck planning to destroy Prime Earth. In fact, I got the distinct impression that he destroyed the other worlds as they are just cheap imitations and "failed spinoffs" that can't hold a candle to the real thing. Although, Billie does have a way of manipulating things to achieve self-fulfilling prophecy. If she declares Chuck the enemy, Chuck will have no recourse but to become the enemy. He can either allow himself to be destroyed which ends all creation, or he can destroy and recreate.

Amara would know this as highlighted in this episode. She knows what he is and emphasized that he is creation. That is his nature and it is inviolate.

[gonzosgirrl]

Lol, there is literally nothing that is inviolate in this show.

[Smad]

16 hours ago, Terese said:

I so agree. Furthermore, we don't see or hear Chuck planning to destroy Prime Earth. In fact, I got the distinct impression that he destroyed the other worlds as they are just cheap imitations and "failed spinoffs" that can't hold a candle to the real thing. Although, Billie does have a way of manipulating things to achieve self-fulfilling prophecy. If she declares Chuck the enemy, Chuck will have no recourse but to become the enemy. He can either allow himself to be destroyed which ends all creation, or he can destroy and recreate.

Amara would know this as highlighted in this episode. She knows what he is and emphasized that he is creation. That is his nature and it is inviolate.

Billy only holds as much power as beings higher or lower than her allow her to have. Death can't take on Amara, God or the Entity and angels/demons/monsters/humans only give her power if they allow themselves to be used/manipulated by her. It also seems that Death is only needed in worlds where the supernatural exists. The universe where Supernatural was just a TV show didn't have any supernatural elements in it, so presumably no Death. Natural order there is held up simply by plants/animals/humans living and dying naturally.

Even if Billie declares Chuck the enemy, that only has power over those who chose to believe she is telling the truth. Of course it's made easy by the writers who deny God's POV in this entire mess. Just like they deny the Entity's or Amara's. So Billie is the only constant player on the board who moves things around for whatever purpose she has in mind (and I don't buy her story) and who is doing things that are sort of explained by the show (whether she is honest or not doesn't matter). Chuck is only the enemy because 1) the character 180 without explanation and 2) the utter lack of explanation in regards to what he's doing. Chuck has plenty recourse if the writers allowed for it but they don't, so we are left with a higher power smashing other universes up without explanation and all we get is Billie's say so that he's the enemy that needs destroying. Heck the writers stacked the deck so hard in regards to 'God is the enemy and Billie the 'good guy'' that they completely forgot what he is supposed to be and that's creation. He shouldn't be able to destroy universes nilly willy because it's outside of his power, destruction is Amara's gig.

Billie herself makes very little sense because she seems an outlier in terms of established rules. Death is still the same entity no matter what vessel they chose to show themselves in. That's the rule for every supernatural being. Demons can jump bodies but the character of the demon is still the same no matter what vessel they are in. The same is true for angels and arch-angels. The same would be true for God, Entity and Amara. But Billie is so different from OG Death despite the fact that Death only jumped vessels, so to speak. The fact that she said in S11 'the old Death thought it was funny' was kind of mythology busting in itself so I can't totally blame this on Dabb (since that was still Carver).

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, Smad said:

Death is still the same entity no matter what vessel they chose to show themselves in. [...] But Billie is so different from OG Death despite the fact that Death only jumped vessels, so to speak.

Death never jumped vessels, in my recollection. Billie was a reaper from 11x01 until her appearance to Dean in Advanced Thanatology, when she revealed herself to be the new Death. Not the same entity in a different vessel at all.

Billie: This reality – it has rules, Dean. So many rules. And one of them? Kill one incarnation of Death, like you did, the next Reaper to dies takes his place.

So her becoming Death was, I suppose, the cosmic consequence of Cas killing her. And it was a 'consequence' because she, unlike OG Death, does not like the Winchesters. 

[Smad]

2 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Death never jumped vessels, in my recollection. Billie was a reaper from 11x01 until her appearance to Dean in Advanced Thanatology, when she revealed herself to be the new Death. Not the same entity in a different vessel at all.

Billie: This reality – it has rules, Dean. So many rules. And one of them? Kill one incarnation of Death, like you did, the next Reaper to dies takes his place.

So her becoming Death was, I suppose, the cosmic consequence of Cas killing her. And it was a 'consequence' because she, unlike OG Death, does not like the Winchesters. 

Billy should have been Death in her first appearance already. Death is apparently something that needs to exist constantly, so as soon as OG Death kicked it there had to be a new one. But maybe unlike all supernatural beings in this universe, Death is really just a concept rather than a 'person'. Or it's just powers (which can be contained in a ring no less) instead of a being considering that Dean was Death for a day. But if Death is a just concept or power set instead of a being, why would Death have any stake in what's happening at large? Why would Lucifer need to raise Death and bind it if it was just a concept or power set instead of an actual being?

My head hurts.

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, Smad said:

Billy should have been Death in her first appearance already. Death is apparently something that needs to exist constantly, so as soon as OG Death kicked it there had to be a new one. But maybe unlike all supernatural beings in this universe, Death is really just a concept rather than a 'person'. Or it's just powers (which can be contained in a ring no less) instead of a being considering that Dean was Death for a day. But if Death is a just concept or power set instead of a being, why would Death have any stake in what's happening at large? Why would Lucifer need to raise Death and bind it if it was just a concept or power set instead of an actual being?

My head hurts.

In canon, the power was tied to the rings. So when Death wanted Dean to have the power, he gave him the ring. I've never understood the concept, because people continued to die world-wide when Dean had it, not just those he saw. Wars, pestilence and famine were still ongoing after those Horsemen were defeated and their rings taken - I guess there was just no one being inciting it? So I guess we have to assume (heh) that nobody was wearing the ring after Death's death (ouch) until Billie died and the ring and mantle became hers.

[Terese]

5 hours ago, Smad said:

Billy only holds as much power as beings higher or lower than her allow her to have. Death can't take on Amara, God or the Entity and angels/demons/monsters/humans only give her power if they allow themselves to be used/manipulated by her. It also seems that Death is only needed in worlds where the supernatural exists. The universe where Supernatural was just a TV show didn't have any supernatural elements in it, so presumably no Death. Natural order there is held up simply by plants/animals/humans living and dying naturally.

Even if Billie declares Chuck the enemy, that only has power over those who chose to believe she is telling the truth. Of course it's made easy by the writers who deny God's POV in this entire mess. Just like they deny the Entity's or Amara's. So Billie is the only constant player on the board who moves things around for whatever purpose she has in mind (and I don't buy her story) and who is doing things that are sort of explained by the show (whether she is honest or not doesn't matter). Chuck is only the enemy because 1) the character 180 without explanation and 2) the utter lack of explanation in regards to what he's doing. Chuck has plenty recourse if the writers allowed for it but they don't, so we are left with a higher power smashing other universes up without explanation and all we get is Billie's say so that he's the enemy that needs destroying. Heck the writers stacked the deck so hard in regards to 'God is the enemy and Billie the 'good guy'' that they completely forgot what he is supposed to be and that's creation. He shouldn't be able to destroy universes nilly willy because it's outside of his power, destruction is Amara's gig.

Billie herself makes very little sense because she seems an outlier in terms of established rules. Death is still the same entity no matter what vessel they chose to show themselves in. That's the rule for every supernatural being. Demons can jump bodies but the character of the demon is still the same no matter what vessel they are in. The same is true for angels and arch-angels. The same would be true for God, Entity and Amara. But Billie is so different from OG Death despite the fact that Death only jumped vessels, so to speak. The fact that she said in S11 'the old Death thought it was funny' was kind of mythology busting in itself so I can't totally blame this on Dabb (since that was still Carver).

I'm not entirely sure that cosmic beings have vessels. They are probably just manifestations of their choosing. Although, with Billie, they have treated Death as more person who rules rather the thing itself. The problem I have always had with her is her involvement with the living and controlling natural order. It's Chuck's design to create a self-evolving, self-maintaining system as he pointed out to Metatron in Dont Call Me Shurley. So, she is nothing more than carrier of those who naturally die, and otherwise none of her business. Of course, I felt that way in season 6. If a man is getting ready to die of a heart attack, why does he need to be touched by death to die? If not touched he forever stays in the process of having a heart attack? I liked it better when Death was a horseman, and the manifestation of humanity's biggest fear during the Apocalypse.

It's refreshing to read your comments. Chuck's entire nature was completely changed, with a personality to go along with it. It has been so contrived, I have felt at times that Chuck is contriving it. Deliberately, willfully making himself appear to be a cruel and capricious God, for some yet unknown purpose. He shouldn't be able to destroy anything of substance. Which is why I keep perceiving the other worlds as illusions, or something formed without real essence.

These stretches and mental gymnastics to go through to provide an explanation that the writers have utterly failed to make, while they destroy everything about a character to make him a villain. They have laid the foundation so poorly. If this really is a master plan of Chuck to save humanity from the Empty, then it will be just some big twist. 

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, Terese said:

Which is why I keep perceiving the other worlds as illusions, or something formed without real essence

Except they encountered and brought back to this world, living breathing human beings. Sure, most of them were red shirts that died on the altar of Jack, but not!Bobby and not!Charlie are atill here. 

[Terese]

24 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Except they encountered and brought back to this world, living breathing human beings. Sure, most of them were red shirts that died on the altar of Jack, but not!Bobby and not!Charlie are atill here. 

Well, maybe there is a distinction between failed spinoffs and other more substantial worlds. Or maybe they achieved essence when entering Prime Earth. 

[Smad]

2 hours ago, Terese said:

I'm not entirely sure that cosmic beings have vessels. They are probably just manifestations of their choosing. Although, with Billie, they have treated Death as more person who rules rather the thing itself. The problem I have always had with her is her involvement with the living and controlling natural order. It's Chuck's design to create a self-evolving, self-maintaining system as he pointed out to Metatron in Dont Call Me Shurley. So, she is nothing more than carrier of those who naturally die, and otherwise none of her business. Of course, I felt that way in season 6. If a man is getting ready to die of a heart attack, why does he need to be touched by death to die? If not touched he forever stays in the process of having a heart attack? I liked it better when Death was a horseman, and the manifestation of humanity's biggest fear during the Apocalypse.

They don't have vessels in the strict sense like demons and angels do but they choose a human form ('vessel') to appear in. But just like demons and angels, their 'character' wouldn't change just because their appearance does. Unless they pull a Chuck in order to mislead or manipulate, but that's an act and not their true 'character'. But Death!Billie is so different from the previous Death that it looks like it's actually a completely different being and that's my problem. If Death is just a title that comes with powers, ok fine. You can bestow those on anyone (even a human like Dean) so how the power is used depends on the 'person' having them. In that way Billie makes sense, she is her own 'person' who now has those powers but is also having an agenda and using them for it, whatever that is.

But the problem still remains that OG Death needed to be raised by Lucifer. You don't need to do a raising for a power set, you only do a raising for a being. Therefore Death is not just a title or powers but an actual being (like all the other cosmic forces) with it's own 'character'.

2 hours ago, Terese said:

He shouldn't be able to destroy anything of substance. Which is why I keep perceiving the other worlds as illusions, or something formed without real essence.

2 problems here. God was pretty powerless except for a few parlor tricks (as Amara put it) when he shared the bullet wound with Sam. He couldn't leave the Prime universe which means he would have had no access to the other universes. If those universes were just illusions, they would have vanished when God was 'powerless'. The other problem is that we have seen God physically destroy the other universes, you don't need to physically destroy an illusion since an illusion isn't anything physical to begin with.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Smad

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, Terese said:

Well, maybe there is a distinction between failed spinoffs and other more substantial worlds. Or maybe they achieved essence when entering Prime Earth. 

Huh? Bobby and Charlie and the red shirts had nothing to do with the Wayward Sisters.

[Terese]

3 minutes ago, Smad said:

They don't have vessels in the strict sense like demons and angels do but they choose a human form ('vessel') to appear in. But just like demons and angels, their 'character' wouldn't change just because their appearance does. Unless they pull a Chuck in order to mislead or manipulate, but that's an act and not their true 'character'. But Death!Billie is so different from the previous Death that it looks like it's actually a completely different being and that's my problem. If Death is just a title that comes with powers, ok fine. You can bestow those on anyone (even a human like Dean) so how the power is used depends on the 'person' having them. In that way Billie makes sense, she is her own 'person' who now has those powers but is also having an agenda and using them for it, whatever that is.

But the problem still remains that OG Death needed to be raised by Lucifer. You don't need to do a raising for a power set, you only do a raising for a being. Therefore Death is not just a title or powers but an actual being (like all the other cosmic forces) with it's own 'character'.

2 problems here. God was pretty powerless except for a few parlor tricks (as Amara put it) when he shared the bullet wound with Sam. He couldn't leave the Prime universe which means he would have had no access to the other universes. If those universes were just illusions, they would have vanished when God was 'powerless'. The other problem is that we have seen God physically destroy the other universes, you don't need to physically destroy an illusion since an illusion isn't anything physical to begin with.

True about illusions. I think what I really mean is without primordial essence. Like substitutions or clones that don't have that organic evolution that Prime Earth does. Copies, in a sense that lack soul and freewill.  Truly manufactured like props in a movie set. I hope that is clearer.

Yes, I too would expect Death to be Death. The ability to kill and replace Death was one incomprehensible event. Death could and should have been merely sent away, much like angels with the sigil, not killed. The show tends too much to give actual physical dimensions to cosmic beings. Now, I can see Chuck presenting himself in a manner most comfortable to whomever he is engaging with. He would take on a more austere image, or more traditional with someone else, perhaps. He certainly wouldn't present himself as boxer shorts Chuck in biblical times. Yet, he would still be God.  But, Billie becoming Death, as a repear assuming a new position, makes it seem like a job vacancy being filled, rather than actual Death. You can't just kill and replace the very thing itself.

[Terese]

Just now, gonzosgirrl said:

Huh? Bobby and Charlie and the red shirts had nothing to do with the Wayward Sisters.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean? I am talking about Chuck's reference to other worlds being just "failed spinoffs."

[gonzosgirrl]

3 minutes ago, Terese said:

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean? I am talking about Chuck's reference to other worlds being just "failed spinoffs."

Ha, I thought you were talking about the actual showrunner's failed spinoffs, not his avatar, Chuck. Still, it doesn't make sense that some of the AU's were real and some not.

[Terese]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Ha, I thought you were talking about the actual showrunner's failed spinoffs, not his avatar, Chuck. Still, it doesn't make sense that some of the AU's were real and some not.

None of this season makes sense. However, I am just speculating that they aren't real. But, when they interact with Prime Earth and it's essence, then through that connection, they become real. Literally get life force breathed into them. But, this is just messing with the ideas of what is organically evolved as opposed to maufactured.

[ILoveReading]

I didn't watch this ep, but did Sam know about the soul bomb with Jack?

[Terese]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

I didn't watch this ep, but did Sam know about the soul bomb with Jack?

No, neither Sam nor Dean know in this episode.

[FlickChick]

On 10/22/2020 at 6:33 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

Huh? Bobby and Charlie and the red shirts had nothing to do with the Wayward Sisters.

Ha! And I thought you were making a joke/jibe about the "Wayward Sisters" spin-off never being part of Chuck's universe because it failed to be picked up. Thus the orange smiley. 😉