S01.E10: Full Circle

[Cotypubby]

4 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Leti traded Christina copies of the Book of Names pages they rescued from the museum for invulnerability. Originally Leti wanted invulnerability for Tic, but Christina gave it to her instead. And then she took it away.

Right, but how did she get it back again after Christina took it away? I saw the quick flash of the mark returning to her body when Kumiho was doing her thing, but when and how did that happen?

[carrps]

18 hours ago, kay1864 said:

The scene of the cemetery really highlighted the difference in skin color for Leti and Ruby. They looked like half-sisters. I don’t believe you normally get that much variation, especially in a family that is apparently not biracial.

I could swear this was actually mentioned, but as a throwaway line in the middle of a conversation -- that they had different fathers.

 

15 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

One of the biggest problems is that up until the second half of the finale, Christina wasn’t really the Big Bad villain that we were itching to see get her comeuppance. Until the very end, all she’s done has been to help Our Heroes, even though it was done to keep them safe for her spell, she really didn’t seem that bad. So the showdown at the end was like, meh. The racists in the earlier episodes were way worse. The shoggoths slaughtering the racist cops made me cheer. Christina being killed by Dee, of all people, with a robotic Terminator arm 🙄made me think “That’s it?”
 

*****
 

I thought Jonathan Majors was excellent in “The Last Black Man in San Francisco,” but here it seemed like he had only one facial expression of tightly pursed lips like he smelled something bad. 

Yep yep yep.

*****

I'll have to check out The Last Black Man in San Francisco!

[carrps]

53 minutes ago, rollacoaster said:

This article explores the problematic treatment of Ruby, and also Hippolyta and Dee:

https://www.themarysue.com/lovecraft-country-ruby-deserved-better/

Another excellent article! It really chimed with my feelings about Ruby.

Why couldn't some of these article writers have been involved in developing the final episode? <snerk>

[tljgator]

34 minutes ago, Cotypubby said:

Right, but how did she get it back again after Christina took it away? I saw the quick flash of the mark returning to her body when Kumiho was doing her thing, but when and how did that happen?

Apparently, she throws it back on her as she's falling (so as to keep her promise to Ruby)...so says the writer/show-runner in an interview with Sepinwall. She seems rather surprised that everyone missed that, but I'm not sure how we were supposed to notice. *shrugs*

[Robert Lynch]

17 hours ago, carrps said:

Another excellent article! It really chimed with my feelings about Ruby.

Why couldn't some of these article writers have been involved in developing the final episode? <snerk>

Absolutely. All she was given was the Meg treatment.

[paigow]

On 10/21/2020 at 10:03 AM, Robert Lynch said:

Absolutely. All she was given was the Meg treatment.

Pretty sure I missed this reference...unless Christina is Jason Statham and Ruby is a prehistoric shark

Edited October 23, 2020 by paigow

[Robert Lynch]

2 hours ago, paigow said:

Pretty sure I missed this reference...unless Christina is Jason Statham and Ruby is a prehistoric shark

 

 

 

 

Family Guy reference. 

[Cheezwiz]

I have to agree with everyone else that this episode was a major let-down. For me, it contained all the things in the show that bored me, namely all the magical nonsense.

Through all 10 episodes, I haven't been able to make heads or tails of what the Braithwaites were hoping to accomplish and what Christina's end game was supposed to be, so I just tuned it out completely.

Instead I was content to just sit back and enjoy each of the episodes as separate self-contained stories, wherein the characters went on different odysseys that touched on real historical events, and incorporated fragments of literature and poetry along the way. Most of the show's episodes were hair-raising, insightful and moving.

The finale however, was a confusing hot mess, and I had no emotional reaction whatsoever to anything that was happening. I was unmoved for the most part by the character's deaths, and Christina was such a low-stakes villain, that a show-down with her as a conclusion just made me shrug. Count me in as someone who didn't care for the actress portraying her either. Nothing about her held my attention - she wasn't scary or charismatic or intriguing at all. Not what you want in a villain!

Honestly, as much as I love supernatural elements in stories, I almost would have preferred it if  the series had just been about an extended family who travelled places and worked on green-book guides, and had odd encounters with the unexplained. The pet shoggoth can stay though!

Edited October 22, 2020 by Cheezwiz

[carrps]

I forgot to mention something that bothered me while watching the show -- the overt religiosity. And the hackneyed cliche of turning Tic into a Christ figure. In the book, Ruff played with these supernatural tropes without ever getting boringly obvious. The religious churchy scenes here seemed tacked on and, I dunno, like pander-y, or something? Just clunky.

[Scarlett45]

On 10/20/2020 at 10:01 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

I can't remember specifically when, but I think it is explicitly said that Ruby and Leti are half-sisters. I have been operating under the assumption that Leti's father is either white or a very light-skinned black man. Now that I think about it, though, there has not been any explicit mention about Leti's father at all, whether he's dead or alive or who he might be, what his  relationship was with Leti or Leti's mom, etc.

Yes Leti and Ruby are half sisters. I believe Ruby and their brother have the same father and Leti has a different father.

[Chicago Redshirt]

23 hours ago, carrps said:

I forgot to mention something that bothered me while watching the show -- the overt religiosity. And the hackneyed cliche of turning Tic into a Christ figure. In the book, Ruff played with these supernatural tropes without ever getting boringly obvious. The religious churchy scenes here seemed tacked on and, I dunno, like pander-y, or something? Just clunky.

I almost feel the opposite. Christianity has been such an integral part of the African-American experience, and more so in the 1950s, that for African-American characters to not explicitly try to make sense of such things as being resurrrected from the dead without the lens of church would ring hollow.

Yes, the Tic-as-Christ was too on-the-nose, but when are such things not? 

[Scarlett45]

47 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I almost feel the opposite. Christianity has been such an integral part of the African-American experience, and more so in the 1950s, that for African-American characters to not explicitly try to make sense of such things as being resurrrected from the dead without the lens of church would ring hollow.

Yes, the Tic-as-Christ was too on-the-nose, but when are such things not? 

Yes I’m more along your viewpoint. 

[Robert Lynch]

On 10/22/2020 at 2:38 AM, Cheezwiz said:

I have to agree with everyone else that this episode was a major let-down. For me, it contained all the things in the show that bored me, namely all the magical nonsense.

Through all 10 episodes, I haven't been able to make heads or tails of what the Braithwaites were hoping to accomplish and what Christina's end game was supposed to be, so I just tuned it out completely.

Instead I was content to just sit back and enjoy each of the episodes as separate self-contained stories, wherein the characters went on different odysseys that touched on real historical events, and incorporated fragments of literature and poetry along the way. Most of the show's episodes were hair-raising, insightful and moving.

The finale however, was a confusing hot mess, and I had no emotional reaction whatsoever to anything that was happening. I was unmoved for the most part by the character's deaths, and Christina was such a low-stakes villain, that a show-down with her as a conclusion just made me shrug. Count me in as someone who didn't care for the actress portraying her either. Nothing about her held my attention - she wasn't scary or charismatic or intriguing at all. Not what you want in a villain!

Honestly, as much as I love supernatural elements in stories, I almost would have preferred it if  the series had just been about an extended family who travelled places and worked on green-book guides, and had odd encounters with the unexplained. The pet shoggoth can stay though!

It's just terribly written. It's like they gave up at the end.

[carrps]

3 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I almost feel the opposite. Christianity has been such an integral part of the African-American experience, and more so in the 1950s, that for African-American characters to not explicitly try to make sense of such things as being resurrrected from the dead without the lens of church would ring hollow.

Yes, the Tic-as-Christ was too on-the-nose, but when are such things not? 

Yes, I do agree, but it hit me as another less than creative addition to the story.

[FemmyV]

Why do we assume Ruby is dead dead, when she could be just mostly dead and in a coma? My other big question is, how did Christina find Montrose in the first place? Hannah's spell to hide the family didn't work so great. 

[Cotypubby]

On 10/22/2020 at 2:38 AM, Cheezwiz said:

Through all 10 episodes, I haven't been able to make heads or tails of what the Braithwaites were hoping to accomplish and what Christina's end game was supposed to be, so I just tuned it out completely.

This exactly! 

All the magical stuff throughout the series has been such gobbledygook confusing nonsense that makes no sense, so I’ve been viewing it more as a macguffin rather than something that is actually important to understand. With the finale just being about the magical ritual, it became boring.

[Chicago Redshirt]

10 hours ago, FemmyV said:

Why do we assume Ruby is dead dead, when she could be just mostly dead and in a coma? My other big question is, how did Christina find Montrose in the first place? Hannah's spell to hide the family didn't work so great. 

Christina told Leti that Ruby was dead. Christina acted as though she was upset/sad at this being the case, although that could be a ploy, or poor acting/writing/directing choices, or me reading more into the performance than was meant to be there.

Christina could be lying on this point, but she has no real reason to that I can think of. Maybe to throw Leti off her game, but in a physical fight, I would say Chruby has an advantage already, plus she has magic on her side. Other than masquerading as other people, Christina seems to tell the truth even when a lie would be easy and serve her purposes better. (For instance, she could have just told Ruby "It will be rough, butTic will be OK after I finish my spell." or "Once I finish the spell, I will have the power to bring Tic back from the dead" or "I don't know what will happen to Tic"" but she straight up told Ruby "I'm going to have to use all his blood for the spell" in the hopes that she would be OK with it.) 

Considerng in Lovecraft Country, death isn't necessarily permanent, we could be seeing Ruby again through reanimation, alt-universe malarkey, or unforeseen ways. 

We never did see how the Braithwaites got onto Atticus/Montrose, but there's magic in terms of the Book of Names and such, and then there's magic as in cash dollar bills, y'all. The Braithwaites have/had plenty of both, and whatever Hanna might have done wouldn't protect from the second. Also, Hanna's spell presumably only works on her direct descendants. Montrose isn't one of her descendants. Tic is related to Hanna through Tic's mother, Dora.

[aprilbabe]

17 hours ago, FemmyV said:

Why do we assume Ruby is dead dead, when she could be just mostly dead and in a coma? My other big question is, how did Christina find Montrose in the first place? Hannah's spell to hide the family didn't work so great. 

Hannahs spell to hide the family most likely only refers to her bloodline, not family by marriage. Montrose isn't related to Hannah, Tic's mom is. Which is why Christina had to use Montrose to lure Tic.

And probably why Tic and Leti running away(like Montrose suggested) wouldn't have worked in the long run. I imagine as long as Leti was carrying Tic's child Christina would be able to find them, but as soon as Leti gave birth she probably wouldn't be protected by the spell as she was no longer carry Hannah descendant.

 

[RachelKM]

On 10/21/2020 at 11:38 PM, Cheezwiz said:

have to agree with everyone else that this episode was a major let-down. For me, it contained all the things in the show that bored me, namely all the magical nonsense.

Through all 10 episodes, I haven't been able to make heads or tails of what the Braithwaites were hoping to accomplish and what Christina's end game was supposed to be, so I just tuned it out completely.

Agreed.  To me it felt a little like the show threw out this vague magical threat posted by the Braithwaites, then developed this really interesting drama full of thoughtful interpersonal and societal conflict built on a platform of a variety of horror and sci-fi tropes in which everything, including Christina's non-main arc stuff, became interesting and intricate.... and then the writers remembered, "Whoops, we said this would be some big magic 'n shit that does a thing for Christina and... er... Back to Ardham!!!" 

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 10/22/2020 at 1:38 AM, Cheezwiz said:

I have to agree with everyone else that this episode was a major let-down. For me, it contained all the things in the show that bored me, namely all the magical nonsense.

Through all 10 episodes, I haven't been able to make heads or tails of what the Braithwaites were hoping to accomplish and what Christina's end game was supposed to be, so I just tuned it out completely.

I agree that they have a lot of gaps in both how magic works and what the motivations had been for the Braithwaites, but I don't think the broad picture is that confusing.

Basically, the philosophy of the Sons of Adam is based on a version of the Fall. God created Adam and gave him immense power by allowing him to name everytihing. Speaking the language of Adam gives one access to that power, or magic. Eve screwed everything up, causing death and decay to enter in the world. The Sons of Adam think that it is possible to return to Eden using magic.

Titus Braithwaite created or acquired the Book of Names, which summarized a lot of the language of Adam. Back in the day, he used his knowledge of the Book of Names to get great power, and he infused that power into his bloodline.. He raped one of his slaves, Hanna. Titus tried to return himself to Eden. 

But if you screw one little thing up, you screw up the spell. And so Titus did, killing himself and everyone in his household except for Hanna, who gave birth to ancestors that included Tic's mother and of course Tic. For years, Hanna studied the Book of Names and was able to work spells. As blood descendants of Titus, Hanna's children inherited some extra or inherent power.

Samuel Braithwaite (apparently either not a blood descendant of Titus or one unwilling to use himself or his own descendants to empower spells) sought the same return-to-Eden that Titus did. He thought that he had figured out what Titus did wrong and was ready to do the spell right, using Tic. But unbeknownst to him, Christina interfered in the spell. (I don't think the show ever really explained why that was-- out of jealousy, a desire for power, or what). As a result, history repeated itself, and Samuel Braithwaite and most of Braithwaite's lodge was killed. 

With Samuel dead, Christina was free to pursue her own power. She was apparently seeking a slightly different spell, immortality rather than a return to Eden. But the good guys did a counterspell, taking magic away from white people and leaving Christina vulnerable for Dee to Finish Her!

[Robert Lynch]

On 10/28/2020 at 5:52 PM, RachelKM said:

Agreed.  To me it felt a little like the show threw out this vague magical threat posted by the Braithwaites, then developed this really interesting drama full of thoughtful interpersonal and societal conflict built on a platform of a variety of horror and sci-fi tropes in which everything, including Christina's non-main arc stuff, became interesting and intricate.... and then the writers remembered, "Whoops, we said this would be some big magic 'n shit that does a thing for Christina and... er... Back to Ardham!!!" 

Pretty much a mess.