Ratings and Scheduling: Who's the fairest of them all?

[sharky]

Problem is they all likely have seven-year contracts -- or at least we've speculated that before. it would be really hard to renegotiate those. 

[tri4335]

Also Ginny is the billed lead of the show!  For Disney she was part of Zootopia which was the 5th grossing animated film of all time.  A & E might be abusing her and slotting her to secondary status but I think she has a lot more pull at the mother ship.

[CCTC]

It is hard to tell from the dialogue and scenes she has gotten the last few years, but I think Ginny might also have the most range and depth as an actress.  Her dark takes in the bizarro world and the shattered sight spell were nicely subtle and showed she could do some quiet malevolence.  I have said this before, but I think it would have been interesting if she would have become the dark one at the end of season 4 and into season 5 and allow her to go full out dark before the end of the arc.  I think in some ways it would have given more of the original characters things to do, and they could have skipped the whole Camelot plot. 

[Rumsy4]

Ginny has been uneven on ONCE. They give her mostly dreck to work with, so it's probably got to do with that. If Ginny really had any pull with abc, she would've kicked up a fuss long before now. 

Edited December 14, 2016 by Rumsy4

[tri4335]

3 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Ginny has been uneven on ONCE. They give her mostly dreck to work with, so it's probably got to do with that. If Ginny really had any pull with abc, she would've kicked up a fuss long before now. 

Yes but in that time she gave birth to two children and went off and worked on Zootopia and did the press run for that. I was responding to the idea that she could be dropped to recurring and that her contract would be changed not necessarily the material she was given.

[CCTC]

I remember reading an interview where Ginny said they were incredibly accommodating during her pregnancy.  It is possible that she is OK with and possibly even be glad her character has been sidelined a bit, so she is at home more and not having as many 14 hour days of filming.   Right now she might simply view it as a job that works well with her schedule and family needs than being the ultimate acting job, and that might be more important to her at this point.  Of course this is all speculation on my point.

[orza]

Ginnifer Goodwin's reduced presence and importance on the show is probably mostly a result of her life choices. She has been either pregnant or nursing an infant for most of the filming time since season three. She has more than once openly talked about wanting a big family on talk shows and how she doesn't like Vancouver and wants to raise her children in Los Angeles and in general has very publicly put her desire for a family ahead of her career. In view of that she may not have a whole lot of pull at the studio. She has also fully made the physical transformation from picture-perfect fairy tale princess to frumpy, pudgy middle-aged soccer mom. While she will no doubt get a role in a Zootopia sequel or perhaps another cartoon, I don't see her getting any more leading roles.

I also don't think Ginnifer Goodwin is anything more than an average actor. She seems to be playing basically the same character in everything I've seen her in and that character is awfully close to the person we see on talk shows.

[Souris]

7 hours ago, sharky said:

Problem is they all likely have seven-year contracts -- or at least we've speculated that before. it would be really hard to renegotiate those. 

The thing is, we don't really know what the contracts are. We can guess based on what's typical, but it's simply guesswork. And that's immaterial anyway -- contracts bind the actor to the show, not the show to the actor. In other words, a show/network can drop any regular at any time they want with no repercussions (unless a contract is structured unusually). Look how many characters are killed off each season! I believe if a regular is let go in the middle of the season, they're paid for the whole season, but that's it. It's very much in favor of the network.

Shows in their last year do tend to let go of regulars in order to cut costs, which is often a network mandate for renewal.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Souris

[sharky]

I agree that Ginny has been looking more frumpy these past few seasons since she had her kids, but I blame that more on the costume department not knowing how to dress her than anything else. I appreciate that Ginny is standing up and saying she won't go on a starvation diet to fit Hollywood norms, but then at least dress her in clothes that are flattering on her body to compensate for that. Unshapely frumpy potato sacks and pleated pants aren't the answer.

And really, what this gets back to ratings wise is when was the last time Snow White was Snow White and Charming was Charming? I think that's what the real fundamental issue is with the ratings going south. Snow White was a fun warrior princess. Captain Hook was a pirate with fun cheeky innuendo. Emma was making snarky comments about helping the sheriff. The writers keep saying we're going back to season 1, but then never do. As has been mentioned before, the big drops in ratings happened when things weren't fun anymore. Let's take all the new viewers who liked a hopeful Norwegian queen and balance it with three boring villains. And then a dark swan who has a secret and then kills her true love and then goes to Hell to get him. Fine, I was OK with that. But lighten it up to balance it out. Give me fun Untold Stories and genies on carpets, not more Evil Queen scene chewing. If I wanted gritty, I would watch NCIS or CSI or whatever. This is a fairy tale show and the fact that fairy tales have been forgotten is reflected in the ratings.

[Rumsy4]

I feel Ginny dresses well in her public appearances and her hair is styled well. She ought to have taken a hand in her costuming on the Show--she does look frumpy, and her combed down hair is very unflattering. But it reflects her current persona in the Show. They destroyed Snow White between season 3B and 4. There's no getting her back.

[tri4335]

Poo poo animation all you want, Zootopia grossed over 1 billion dollars, which Ginny is the first billed star.  Yes a studio can drop whoever they want out of their contracts at any given time. But believe me if it is Ginny, it will be couched that she has a better deal at Disney making Zootopia 2. She and Robert are the only two who can walk out of this show and their phones will be ringing that day.  JMO has contacts and is somewhat of a known entity and Josh can network through his wife's contacts.  Everyone else on this show can be a working actor and maybe even front something in the near future. But make no mistake Ginny and Robert are the moneymakers, with JMO as the next in line, and they are the sought after talent. Out of the OUAT regulars they are the three that have any "clout" if there is any in the industry. Granted LP may have the clout with A & E but it is not extending outside of them to date. I fully admit this may change soon enough but it is not the lay of land right now.

And believe me, if the perfect job came along that required Ginny to lose weight, she would. OUAT is not worth the effort.

[Rumsy4]

28 minutes ago, tri4335 said:

But make no mistake Ginny and Robert are the moneymakers, with JMO as the next in line, and they are the sought after talent.

But that doesn't have any effect on the renewal of ONCE. It will make it easiest for them to walk off the Show--so they won't care if OUAT is cancelled. After this season, JMo may not care as much, and anyway, I doubt she has any pull with the network.

[Tiger]

This morning the country music radio station I listed to said that ABC has picked up a new show starring Reba McIntire that will debut in late 2017.  

I haven't checked to see if this has been reported elsewhere. 

[Souris]

12 minutes ago, Tiger said:

This morning the country music radio station I listed to said that ABC has picked up a new show starring Reba McIntire that will debut in late 2017.  

I haven't checked to see if this has been reported elsewhere. 

It is, I linked it upthread. It's from Marc Cherry.

[CCTC]

35 minutes ago, tri4335 said:

And believe me, if the perfect job came along that required Ginny to lose weight, she would. OUAT is not worth the effort.

She did not crash diet the weight loss, but I thought she did eventually lose most of the weight from the first pregnancy.  However, by at that point she was pregnant again, so there was not a long period of her losing the first pregnancy weight and before gaining weight from the second pregnancy.   I saw some recent pics of her and it looks like she has lost a bit of weight from when she was from filming earlier in the season.  Once you are closer to 40 than 30, losing weight quickly is not always an option (not to mention with two kids under 3).

[Mathius]

It's worth noting that JMO went on record years ago saying she personally believed the show will last 6 seasons.  So if it's cancelled, she'll be right.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Mathius

[KingOfHearts]

Lost was 6 seasons. At least its showrunners were smart enough to quit while they were ahead. They knew where it was going to stop all the way back in S3. They wanted to tell a complete story. Meanwhile A&E are just like, "Bring on season 22!"

Edited December 15, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[AnotherCastle]

ABC aired 'The Sound of Music' last Sunday (7-11 p.m.), Demo was 1.1:

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/sunday-final-ratings-dec-18-2016/

[Souris]

27 minutes ago, AnotherCastle said:

ABC aired 'The Sound of Music' last Sunday (7-11 p.m.), Demo was 1.1:

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/sunday-final-ratings-dec-18-2016/

Looks like it got a 1.2 in Once's time slot.

Compilation of ABC's pilots & the situation it's in. "Once Upon A Time is dying but could live one more year since ABC won’t be able to launch too many new shows at the same time next fall."

Edited December 21, 2016 by Souris

[Curio]

I'd love to be a fly on the wall during the meeting between A&E and the ABC Execs where A&E desperately try to plead for one more season.

Actually, who knows if A&E even want a Season 7 at this point. It already seems like they've checked out creatively from OUAT, and if it weren't for Dead of Summer bombing, I could have seen them handing the OUAT showrunner reigns over to Jane in a future season. But since they have no fallback show now, they're stuck with OUAT and us annoying and avid fans who actually demand quality.

[Camera One]

A&E clearly thinks their show is still the bee's knees, so I don't think they've checked out.  I doubt they would willingly hand their baby over to someone else either.  

[AnotherCastle]

According to this from 2012, part of their 4 year deal with ABC:

Quote

"As part of the deal, they are committing to remain showrunners on the series for its duration."

 http://variety.com/2012/tv/news/kitsis-horowitz-reup-with-abc-studios-1118056361/ 

Was there anything on them extending again after 2012? Since 2016 is almost done...

[Mathius]

7 hours ago, Souris said:

Looks like it got a 1.2 in Once's time slot.

Still higher than Once.  At this point, ABC might do better to just air movies from 8:00 - 10:00 rather than keep Once and Secrets & Lies.

Quote

Was there anything on them extending again after 2012? Since 2016 is almost done...

The "years" in question were season years, thus Seasons 2 through 5.  They've already been extended again once, with S6.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Mathius

[Curio]

Quote

[Channing Dungey] explained recently why the Alphabet was failing the past few years in her opinion “With our dramas, we have a lot of shows that feature very well-to-do, well-educated people, who are driving very nice cars and living in extremely nice places. There is definitely still room for that, and we absolutely want to continue to tell those stories because wish-fulfillment is a critical part of what we do as entertainers. But in recent history we haven’t paid enough attention to some of the true realities of what life is like for everyday Americans in our dramas.”

 

It's interesting to me that the head of ABC has bluntly said in public that the reason ABC is failing is because its dramas have been focusing too heavily on stories about rich elitists instead of focusing more on everyday Americans, yet ever since the 100th episode, A&E have retooled OUAT to focus even more on the one character who is very well-to-do, owns one of the nicest mansions in Storybrooke, drives a Mercedes-Benz, has the most powerful government position in Storybrooke, has the fanciest clothes, grew up in a privileged family, and even has magical powers on top of all of that. Did A&E directly defy their bosses and say, "Screw you and your advice, we're going to keep telling our favorite character's story. In fact, she's going to have the main focus in Season 6 and we're going to make two of her. On top of that, she'll have by far the most screen time out of the entire main cast to the point where it's actually an outlier* if you were to plot it on a graph." Or are they that out of touch with Regina's character where they don't even realize that Channing Dungey was actually calling out characters like Regina as being part of ABC's ratings problem? There are so many characters on OUAT that better represent the "everyday American" ABC wants to focus more on that it has me baffled as to why Season 6 has suddenly become the Regina Show.

Granted, Dungey also said there's still room on the network to tell those kinds of stories, but I have to wonder what she thinks of OUAT this season and how this show had the chance to transform into something that would better fit the network's ideal mold for the future, yet A&E seemed to go in the opposite direction this year.

*No joke. Regina's screen time is statistically an outlier compared to the rest of the regular cast members in 6A.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Curio

[Tiger]

19 hours ago, Souris said:

Looks like it got a 1.2 in Once's time slot.

Compilation of ABC's pilots & the situation it's in. "Once Upon A Time is dying but could live one more year since ABC won’t be able to launch too many new shows at the same time next fall."

What folks like that fail to account for is that ABC will be turning over one, possibly two hours currently occupied by drama to comedy next fall.

This fall ABC had 9 hours of drama on the fall schedule.  Let's say they only do 7 next fall, which is increasingly looking like the most likely scenario.  

Grey's, Scandal, Murder, Designated, and Inhumans/Shield will take up 5 of those hours.  That means all the other existing dramas and the new pilots are competing for just two slots.

Once is done.  Everything else aside, it's basic math.  

[Eolivet]

2 hours ago, Curio said:

A&E have retooled OUAT to focus even more on the one character who is very well-to-do, owns one of the nicest mansions in Storybrooke, drives a Mercedes-Benz, has the most powerful government position in Storybrooke, has the fanciest clothes, grew up in a privileged family, and even has magical powers on top of all of that.

I don't know how much I buy that Regina is coded as "rich person" to the general audience, since I don't think socioeconomic divides apply as much to a magical town that spends half its time in fairytale flashbacks. I'd be hard-pressed to name anyone who's "everyday" in Storybrooke. I seriously doubt if you did a survey/focus group, one would say "I wish they wouldn't spend so much time on Regina because I can't relate to all her wealth and opulence." It would be "because she's annoying/whiny/unforgivable," etc.

I can easily see them saying "I can't relate to a magical town or magic or fairytales, that has nothing to do with my life," but that would apply to everyone -- including Captain Hook walking around the streets with Snow White and Prince Charming and shopping at Rumplestiltskin's store. Even their everyday Emma and Henry have magic of sorts now -- nobody in that town is ordinary anymore.

However, I find that argument a little rich (no pun intended) from Dungey, because some of ABC's most successful shows and developed characters are very rich. Olivia Pope has that fabulous Washington D.C. apartment and dresses like she stepped off the runway. Meredith Grey is a successful mom/surgeon and has a big enough house to take in "strays." Annalise Keating dresses extremely well, makes a great living as an attorney and -- until the season finale --lived in a big, beautiful Victorian home in Philadelphia.

But nobody is saying (and I think the ratings agree with me), "I can't relate to Meredith, who lost her husband, because she lives in a big house and is a successful surgeon!" By the same token, I don't think Scandal's ratings dropped because Olivia's clothes were too nice, they dropped because (to me) the show spent increasing amounts of time on the totally unrelatable B613 -- and then asked viewers to relate and sympathize with a cadre of killers.

It sounds like ABC is saying viewers want "realism," not fantasy -- meaning fewer superheroes and fairytales, and I agree with @Tiger, that bodes ill for OuaT. Not because they feature a rich character, but because they're unrelatable based on their premise.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Eolivet

[Curio]

Just now, Eolivet said:

It sounds like ABC is saying viewers want "realism," not fantasy -- meaning fewer superheroes and fairytales, and I agree with @Tiger, that bodes ill for OuaT. Not because they feature a rich character, but because they're unrelatable based on their premise.

 

 

I would agree with that. If the show somehow beats all the odds and comes back for a final seventh season, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the writers go back to the Season 1 formula where everyone in Storybrooke is memory wiped, nobody remembers they're fairy tale characters, they eliminate all magic in town, and we only focus on these "real" people living in Maine. Of course, there would still be a slight magical element to the show because they would never get rid of their fairy tale flashbacks, but getting rid of magic in Storybrooke and making the entire cast forget they're magical could be A&E's last-ditch sell to ABC if they wanted to beg for one final season to wrap things up properly. 

Edited December 22, 2016 by Curio

[sharky]

5 hours ago, Tiger said:

This fall ABC had 9 hours of drama on the fall schedule.  Let's say they only do 7 next fall, which is increasingly looking like the most likely scenario.  

Grey's, Scandal, Murder, Designated, and Inhumans/Shield will take up 5 of those hours.  That means all the other existing dramas and the new pilots are competing for just two slots.

Once is done.  Everything else aside, it's basic math.  

Scandal and Murder only get 15-16 episode orders and tag team so they take up one hour on the schedule, not two. And Shield has been doing worse than Once so maybe they can be saved by Inhumans, but again those shows are going to take up one hour on the schedule and not two. 

[Souris]

1 hour ago, sharky said:

Scandal and Murder only get 15-16 episode orders and tag team so they take up one hour on the schedule, not two. And Shield has been doing worse than Once so maybe they can be saved by Inhumans, but again those shows are going to take up one hour on the schedule and not two. 

Scandal & Murder don't tag-team. Scandal airs at 9 p.m. & Murder at 10 p.m. Murder does just 15 eps a season, but Scandal had a reduced order this season only because of Kerry Washington's pregnancy; it will probably go back to its usual 20-ish eps next season.

[Hookian]

On 12/22/2016 at 8:12 AM, Tiger said:

What folks like that fail to account for is that ABC will be turning over one, possibly two hours currently occupied by drama to comedy next fall.

This fall ABC had 9 hours of drama on the fall schedule.  Let's say they only do 7 next fall, which is increasingly looking like the most likely scenario.  

Grey's, Scandal, Murder, Designated, and Inhumans/Shield will take up 5 of those hours.  That means all the other existing dramas and the new pilots are competing for just two slots.

Once is done.  Everything else aside, it's basic math.  

What you're failing to realize is that all you're doing is speculating. Chill out. OUAT can easily get a final 7th season of 13 episodes and run in the fall or in winter(January). Just like many shows have done. 

[Eolivet]

Chill out? I think @Tiger has been the opposite of hysterical. In fact, she/he has provided nothing but calm, insightful speculation, which has given context to the numbers. I have enjoyed these insights and I hope she/he continues to provide information. Ratings sites barf back the numbers and give their guesses, but the schedule is based on so much more than mere numbers. It's extremely political, and I feel better informed knowing about the aspects outside of the black-and-white ratings.

I also like to be prepared if something is going to happen -- I don't want to walk around, thinking a show will get renewed because "the numbers say so" and then be shocked when it's cancelled. If it's not cancelled -- who cares? At least I was prepared that it would be, and I knew why it might be.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Eolivet

[Free]

On ‎12‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 1:07 PM, sharky said:

Scandal and Murder only get 15-16 episode orders and tag team so they take up one hour on the schedule, not two. And Shield has been doing worse than Once so maybe they can be saved by Inhumans, but again those shows are going to take up one hour on the schedule and not two. 

Yeah, I'm not so sure they should do that again, Notorious was a misfire and their drama lineup continually weakened and midseason doesn't seem any better (they're the only network without an official midseason schedule yet).  ABC shouldn't be trying to create anymore problems/holes in the schedule for itself, it should be fixing it with hopefully better shows.

Quote

It's interesting to me that the head of ABC has bluntly said in public that the reason ABC is failing is because its dramas have been focusing too heavily on stories about rich elitists instead of focusing more on everyday Americans, yet ever since the 100th episode, A&E have retooled OUAT to focus even more on the one character who is very well-to-do, owns one of the nicest mansions in Storybrooke, drives a Mercedes-Benz, has the most powerful government position in Storybrooke, has the fanciest clothes, grew up in a privileged family, and even has magical powers on top of all of that. Did A&E directly defy their bosses and say, "Screw you and your advice, we're going to keep telling our favorite character's story. In fact, she's going to have the main focus in Season 6 and we're going to make two of her. On top of that, she'll have by far the most screen time out of the entire main cast to the point where it's actually an outlier* if you were to plot it on a graph." Or are they that out of touch with Regina's character where they don't even realize that Channing Dungey was actually calling out characters like Regina as being part of ABC's ratings problem? There are so many characters on OUAT that better represent the "everyday American" ABC wants to focus more on that it has me baffled as to why Season 6 has suddenly become the Regina Show.

Granted, Dungey also said there's still room on the network to tell those kinds of stories, but I have to wonder what she thinks of OUAT this season and how this show had the chance to transform into something that would better fit the network's ideal mold for the future, yet A&E seemed to go in the opposite direction this year.

*No joke. Regina's screen time is statistically an outlier compared to the rest of the regular cast members in 6A.

Quote

A&E clearly thinks their show is still the bee's knees, so I don't think they've checked out.  I doubt they would willingly hand their baby over to someone else either.  

They've shown time and again that they are out of touch and as the seasons progressed, the problems only got worse.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Free

[Mathius]

On 12/22/2016 at 8:12 AM, Tiger said:

What folks like that fail to account for is that ABC will be turning over one, possibly two hours currently occupied by drama to comedy next fall.

This fall ABC had 9 hours of drama on the fall schedule.  Let's say they only do 7 next fall, which is increasingly looking like the most likely scenario.  

Grey's, Scandal, Murder, Designated, and Inhumans/Shield will take up 5 of those hours.  That means all the other existing dramas and the new pilots are competing for just two slots.

Once is done.  Everything else aside, it's basic math.  

Not to mention if "Hyperion" is picked up, then that would absolutely be suited for Once's time slot and would be the nail in the coffin.

And given that it's Disney, "Hyperion" is actually one of the more likely pilots among those listed to be picked up.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Mathius

[jjjmoss]

Well just a month ago ABC was sending out a press release bragging about having the 3 richest audiences on network TV - for Modern Family, Designated Survivor, and Goldbergs - and 6 of the top 8. Now suddenly the problem is the rich people? Hmm.

[Hookian]

Once Upon a Time is doing fairly well compared to other shows. I mean look at Quantico. Yikes. And some peons think it honestly has a chance at being renewed, please.

And I definitely don't seeShields being renewed.

http://tvline.com/2016/12/23/ratings-2016-2017-tv-season-winners-losers/

4 hours ago, Mathius said:

Not to mention if "Hyperion" is picked up, then that would absolutely be suited for Once's time slot and would be the nail in the coffin.

And given that it's Disney, "Hyperion" is actually one of the more likely pilots among those listed to be picked up.

 

How is that a final nail in the coffin. IMO that would tell us that Once will get a final 13 episode order and then the Disney series Hyperion would start in the Winter/Spring. That's if it even gets picked up. But nowhere does that indicate Once is a gonner. 

That chart I posted says a lot IMO.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Hookian

[Mathius]

Yet again, you are looking solely at numbers and not thinking about network politics.  And those aren't even very good numbers!  "Some shows are doing worse".  So what?  That doesn't guarantee anything for Once, especially given that the rating is likely going to drop even lower in Spring to the 0.9 - 0.7 range.  And if Hyperion is picked up, they'll want to launch it in the Fall, not the Winter/Spring.  I'm glad to see you practicing hope more efficiently than the show itself does, but you are setting yourself up for disappointment at this point.  Once's death is growing more imminent. 

Also, that chart is slightly outdated.  Once's average rating by the end of the Fall 2016 season is 1.0, not 1.1.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Mathius

[Hookian]

17 hours ago, Mathius said:

Yet again, you are looking solely at numbers and not thinking about network politics.  And those aren't even very good numbers!  "Some shows are doing worse".  So what?  That doesn't guarantee anything for Once, especially given that the rating is likely going to drop even lower in Spring to the 0.9 - 0.7 range.  And if Hyperion is picked up, they'll want to launch it in the Fall, not the Winter/Spring.  I'm glad to see you practicing hope more efficiently than the show itself does, but you are setting yourself up for disappointment at this point.  Once's death is growing more imminent. 

Also, that chart is slightly outdated.  Once's average rating by the end of the Fall 2016 season is 1.0, not 1.1.

I know all about network politics. And I choose to believe actual insiders in the business that all say Once is safe over some people on a forum. 

Sorry. Nobody honestly believes this show is gonna be cancelled aside from people on this forum. Wonder why? That's not a means to answer, it's obvious why.

[jjjmoss]

Once Upon a Time is down 33% though?

Oh, "the percent CHANGE versus each program’s previous full-season average." That's a silly way to do things, comparing fall+spring numbers of one season vs. just the fall numbers of another season. Also, I hadn't noticed that Friday shows Shark Tank & Last Man Standing are now doing better.

Edited December 25, 2016 by jjjmoss

[Free]

9 hours ago, jjjmoss said:

Once Upon a Time is down 33% though?

Oh, "the percent CHANGE versus each program’s previous full-season average." That's a silly way to do things, comparing fall+spring numbers of one season vs. just the fall numbers of another season. Also, I hadn't noticed that Friday shows Shark Tank & Last Man Standing are now doing better.

ABC dramas are doing badly, their comedies and unscripted shows are doing better.

[Tiger]

That awkward moment when a replay of a 25 year old movie and two out-of-time-period sitcom repeats give ABC its best scripted programming demo performance on the night of the season . . . 

It's interesting that they went with Blackish and Speechless as those two of two of the three being discussed for a possible Sunday comedy hour.

[Tiger]

On 12/25/2016 at 9:52 AM, Free said:

ABC dramas are doing badly, their comedies and unscripted shows are doing better.

Which is exactly why one, possibly two hours that were programmed with drama this fall will be programmed with comedy next fall.

ETA: there was a great article on Deadline a few days ago about Last Man Standing's amazing syndication performance. Aside from Castle, when was the last time an ABC drama went into syndication and then dis well? 

Edited December 26, 2016 by Tiger

[jjjmoss]

I actually remember as a kid loving Wonderful World of Disney's rotating lineup from their movie vault. And the last 3 weeks indicate that the audience agrees. Though it would probably be bad publicity if ABC officially turned their Sunday primetime slot over to movies; it would look like they'd given up. 

[Curio]

What's sad is that OUAT could have easily taken over as a cool Disney "Feel-Good" show that incorporated all of your favorite Disney characters on fun adventures, and somehow it's turned into a show about an Evil Queen making out with Rumplestiltskin weekly while the daughter of Snow White is perpetually depressed about dying. I know a lot of people moaned about the Frozen inclusion in Season 4, but that's the closest this show has gotten to "feel-good" in the past few years. I wonder if the show's ratings would improve at all if the tone of the show skewed more comedic or if it's gotten to the point where it's lost all of its general audience and only the bitter fans are left. 

[Free]

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

That awkward moment when a replay of a 25 year old movie and two out-of-time-period sitcom repeats give ABC its best scripted programming demo performance on the night of the season . . . 

It's interesting that they went with Blackish and Speechless as those two of two of the three being discussed for a possible Sunday comedy hour.

It's a recurring pattern, both specials and unscripted shows are beating out their dramas.  They've already moved Quantico away and they're still the only network not to release a midseason schedule yet.

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

Which is exactly why one, possibly two hours that were programmed with drama this fall will be programmed with comedy next fall.

ETA: there was a great article on Deadline a few days ago about Last Man Standing's amazing syndication performance. Aside from Castle, when was the last time an ABC drama went into syndication and then dis well? 

Scripted dramas especially are going to struggle more and more in syndication, you'd have to be an older skewing procedural or a comedy and even that's less common nowadays.

14 minutes ago, Curio said:

What's sad is that OUAT could have easily taken over as a cool Disney "Feel-Good" show that incorporated all of your favorite Disney characters on fun adventures, and somehow it's turned into a show about an Evil Queen making out with Rumplestiltskin weekly while the daughter of Snow White is perpetually depressed about dying. I know a lot of people moaned about the Frozen inclusion in Season 4, but that's the closest this show has gotten to "feel-good" in the past few years. I wonder if the show's ratings would improve at all if the tone of the show skewed more comedic or if it's gotten to the point where it's lost all of its general audience and only the bitter fans are left. 

Agreed, there is a family oriented audience out there, but they're not here for OuaT nowadays.  Frozen was their last card ABC had to play for the show and most likely gave the show a short lived extension because of that boost.

[Camera One]

I continue to believe that Star Wars can still give that boost.  "Regina One", anyone?  "A New HOPE?"  "The Dark One Strikes Back But He's Still Good Deep Inside?"  "Return of The Dark One and The Evil Queen x 5?"  "The Phantom Ill-Defined Menace?"  "Attack of The Dark Ones?"  "Revenge of The Dark One?"  "Regina The Good Awakens?" 

Edited December 26, 2016 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

12 minutes ago, Free said:

Frozen was their last card ABC had to play for the show and most likely gave the show a short lived extension because of that boost.

I generally side-eye the sky high ratings at the beginning of 4A. There was a snafu with Nielsen's ratings at that time, and I always felt the so-called "corrected" ratings that were released later weren't accurate either. ONCE ratings went down to the numbers seen around the end of 3B after like 4 episodes. It made me think there really wasn't such a big boost for Frozen after all. 

Quote

 I wonder if the show's ratings would improve at all if the tone of the show skewed more comedic or if it's gotten to the point where it's lost all of its general audience and only the bitter fans are left. 

I do know that even the bitter fans will stop watching if the Show continues to be this dank and depressing in 6B. Literally only rabid fans of Regina/Lana and perpetually satisfied fans will remain (apart from the GA members who don't really play too close attention).

[Free]

46 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

I generally side-eye the sky high ratings at the beginning of 4A. There was a snafu with Nielsen's ratings at that time, and I always felt the so-called "corrected" ratings that were released later weren't accurate either. ONCE ratings went down to the numbers seen around the end of 3B after like 4 episodes. It made me think there really wasn't such a big boost for Frozen after all. 

I do know that even the bitter fans will stop watching if the Show continues to be this dank and depressing in 6B. Literally only rabid fans of Regina/Lana and perpetually satisfied fans will remain (apart from the GA members who don't really play too close attention).

It was very frontloaded and short lived, but it was still a boost nonetheless and it did help to extend the show for a bit.

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, Free said:

It was very frontloaded and short lived, but it was still a boost nonetheless and it did help to extend the show for a bit.

I don't see how. It's not like OUAT was in danger of cancellation at the end of S3. Any boost Frozen gave disappeared after 4 episodes, and only the regulars remained. And the ratings kept dropping as the season progressed. Any average ratings inflation would've been countered by artificially steep ratings drop over S4. Ultimately, all it did was delayed the quality drop in the writing by half a season. 

[Free]

5 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

I don't see how. It's not like OUAT was in danger of cancellation at the end of S3. Any boost Frozen gave disappeared after 4 episodes, and only the regulars remained. And the ratings kept dropping as the season progressed. Any average ratings inflation would've been countered by artificially steep ratings drop over S4. Ultimately, all it did was delayed the quality drop in the writing by half a season. 

It wasn't in danger until this season, but the decline would've happened a lot sooner and the Frozen bump gave it some cushion for its fall before going back to its regular numbers in 4b onwards.  Without Frozen, OuaT might've gone fractional earlier if the regular declines held, it's a short lived boost that helped it out but only just for a little bit.

[Rumsy4]

56 minutes ago, Free said:

It wasn't in danger until this season, but the decline would've happened a lot sooner and the Frozen bump gave it some cushion for its fall before going back to its regular numbers in 4b onwards.  Without Frozen, OuaT might've gone fractional earlier if the regular declines held, it's a short lived boost that helped it out but only just for a little bit.

But it went back to its regular numbers by the fourth episode. The ratings for the 3B finale were 2.3/7. While 4A opened with a rating of 3.5/11, it went back to 2.3/6 by the fourth episode in a 22-episode season, and didn't really recover from that point. So, I can't see how the extremely short-lived boost helped the longevity of the Show in any way.

Edited December 27, 2016 by Rumsy4