S07.E02: The Garden

[CooperTV]

Quote

Echo (Tasya Teles) and Gabriel (Chuku Modu) learn more about Hope (Shelby Flannery) and her mysterious past.

Original airdate 5/27/2020.

[quarks]

1. Finally, someone asks the question we have all been asking for years: why do so many otherwise sensible women want to die in order to save Bellamy Blake?

2. But otherwise, if this episode was meant to get me on the side of Adult Hope, it failed. Kid Hope, adorable and yes it was very very sad when Kid Hope was left ALL ALONE after the armored people in the green thingy took Diyoza and Octavia away but Adult Hope is just awful. Which I guess is what can be expected when your examples of grownup behavior are Diyoza and Octavia, but, still.

3. I dunno about your crush, Gabriel. Becca did some very scary stuff back in the day. Had a great house, though, so there's that.

4. And speaking of questionable choices, Gabriel, when you are holding on to the one thing that offers a chance of escaping from a prison planet and, more importantly, Hope, do you a) treat it with extreme care, or b) leave it on a table despite knowing that there's a completely bonkers person running around? 

While I'm at it, did it not occur to you earlier that you might need to take notes, meaning that it would be a good idea to have pen and paper around? You're supposed to be a genius, Gabriel. I am disappointed. 

5. I know I need to just give up on any sort of consistency with this show, but with that said - when, exactly, did Octavia learn to swim? I'll absolutely buy that Echo learned how to swim as part of her spy training, and that Gabriel learned to swim in some past lifetime, and that Hope learned from Diyoza, and Diyoza learned from the Navy or sometime before that, but if memory serves, Octavia's life sorta went like this:

a) Up in a space station with extremely limited swimming opportunities

b) One jump into water, almost immediately followed up by getting attacked by a water monster, thus cancelling that day's swimming lessons

c) Running around in woods and killing people not swimming

d) Five years in an underground bunker with limited swimming opportunities

e) Marching on the one habitable place left on Earth and also not swimming

f) in cyrosleep

g) Running around more woods

I mean, I suppose she could have taken a few swimming lessons during the first bit of running around in the woods, but again, if memory serves, the first four seasons all supposedly happened within just a few months, during which Octavia was focused on training with weapons.

So, again, swimming lessons? When?

6. Speaking of questionable things, they were remarkably lucky to find a place that just happened to have seeds for tomatoes and squash, weren't they?

 

[Lady Calypso]

So, this episode brought more answers than I thought it would. Of course, it also left more questions, such as the other planets involved. 

I think the one thing that is holding me back from loving this Anomaly stuff is the idea that we could have many of our characters decades apart in age. Of course, thinking about it, there's 14 episodes left in the series and it would be a lot of work to put old age makeup on the characters for the long run, so perhaps they won't do this. Or we'll be forced to have the characters separated for this final season, which is even worse for me.

Otherwise, I am liking this Anomaly plot WAYYYY more than anything they plan to do in Sanctum. Diyoza, Octavia, and Hope becoming a family for 10 years is a neat idea.

Of course, Diyoza turned into a huge dick about Octavia wanting to go to her brother, I'm guessing because she didn't want it to be just her and Hope for the rest of their lives. But still, frustrating to see Diyoza take that route. And Adult Hope took after her mother when it came to Echo and Gabriel. 

No surprise Echo is freaking out about Bellamy. Sure, it led her to be not so nice to Hope, but it then led to some bonding between the two. Plus, I don't mind conflict like this....for the most part.

Gabriel...did a dumb thing in leaving his monitor in the cabin when he knew there was someone else roaming the woods. Dude, you DID see the code, right? So just try to remember what you saw and input it for the next five years. You're bound to get it right eventually if you rely on your memory. Unless your memory is shit.

And yes, questionable taste in a crush, but I think Gabriel was the same age as Becca so it's understandable. 

But we did get a Becca cameo! And we got some nice moments with the Diyoza-Blake family. And we got some hints about the planet about how Planet Beta/Sky Ring may be the planet whose time might move a lot faster than the other planets because it's further away from the black hole. Which means that we MAY not get super old characters, after all! If this is the case and nobody ages super old by the end of the series, I'd be more down with it.

Octavia's letter to Bellamy WAS sweet. And there was a LOT of parallels with Octavia and Hope.

We also know that Hope was trained by some prisoner a few months after Octavia/Diyoza were taken so I assume we'll also get flashbacks of those moments later.

Overall, it was a solid episode, but makes me bitter that we can't get all of our characters to the Anomaly plot any faster because of stupid Sanctum politics. Who the hell cares about Sanctum? Let's get to planet jumping! 

[thuganomics85]

So, as expected, the Anomaly takes its travelers to a planet that Gabriel calls "Planet Beta", where years over there when it's only mere minutes or even seconds over on Sanctum/the other planet.  Also, it's apparently a prison planet, where criminals can serve their time at length, but still come back to their homeland within reason.  I kind of wonder if something like that would actually happen in real life, if we ever somehow get to ability to travel like that.  Granted, it certainly sounds like this Disciple gang has rules and methods that might not coincide with how others would view morality, so who knows if any of the prisoners actually deserve to go there.

Admittedly, I think I already prefer Young Hope to the older one, simply because Murphy apparently sounds like her favorite, since she specifically asked if Octavia was going to bring him!  But to be fair, anyone that was raised by both Octavia and Diyoza is going to have some issues, to put it mildly.  I mean, both of them do mean well in their own way and probably did the best they could with the situation.  But, yeah, there's going to be some issues there.

As much as I gave Octavia hell for her behavior these past few seasons, I do think she is sincere over wanting to make amends with Bellamy and feels guilt over what happened.  If nothing else, she's at least changed enough for not killing Diyoza over what she did, because Bloodrayna Octavia would have probably done it without a moment's hesitation.  I understand Diyoza was desperate and idolization has clearly done a number on her, but damn, that was low.

Gabriel has a crush on Becca, huh?  He's certainly ignoring some really shady shit that she has done, but to be fair, Erica Cerra is certainly crush-worthy!  Cool seeing her again for a brief moment.

Heh, Echo is totally regretting stepping foot into this Anomaly, huh?  It's too bad I still feel like she cares more for Bellamy than he does for her.

I continue to like how the show really takes advantage of Vancouver's beauty and can make it honestly feel like a completely different planet.

 

[ottoDbusdriver]

If planet Beta/Sky Ring is in close proximity to a black hole, shouldn't time move slower -- not faster ?

So.  Many.  Candles -- in that cabin.

Echo is way too clean -- her clothing looks basically brand new, it's not even dirty.

At one point Octavia picked up what looked like a rubbermaid tub -- where did that come from ? Eligius 3 ?  The crashed ship ?  The nearby Target ?

Wouldn't there have been something in the Eligius 3 logs about planet Beta experiencing time dilation effects ?  Monty would have glommed on to something like that.

Those bodies around the forest chess table seemed way too fresh -- the Eligius 3 has been gone for about a hundred years or so in Sky Ring time.  It would only make sense if time moved slower (not faster).  I think none of the writers have an even a passing familiarity with how physics works.  I guess they probably figured since they watched 'Interstellar' at some point that was all they needed to know.

How come Hope and Octavia weren't wet when they returned to Earth ?  Or did they come through yet another anomaly from another planet ?  

Edited May 28, 2020 by ottoDbusdriver

[tennisgurl]

Planet jumping sounds like a blast, lets do that for awhile! So the Anomaly takes people and dumps them on this Beta planet, and time works differently (it runs on Narnia time) which means that Octavia can have a lot of character development in a short amount of time, but was a lot of time for her to think on her past choices and her relationship with Bellamy, especially after playing big sister with Hope. I mean, old Octavia would have totally killed Diyoza for messing with her attempt at getting home, so that shows some real change. As many awful things as Octavia has done, I do think that she feels regret and wants to be a better person, and after all the crap pretty much everyone on this show has pulled and all of the awful things they have done because they thought it was right at the time, its probably best to do what Clarke says and just move forward. Her letter to Bellamy was really heartfelt, and I admit that I am hoping that they can reconcile for real.

Diyoza keeping Octavia from leaving and removing her option was a crappy thing to do. though. She didn't want to be alone again with just her daughter I suppose, and wanted her daughter to have more than one person in her life, which is understandable, but still a crappy stunt to pull. 

Young Hope was really cute (and of course I love a kid whos favorite character is Murphy!) but I am not really feeling grown up Hope. If you need Gabriel and Diyoza to help you, or even just go along with your plan, maybe, like, give them information and dont be an asshole to them for no reason? I guess we will get more flashbacks to her childhood? 

I guess Gabriel has spent so much time with his hippies, that he forgot that maybe just leaving important stuff around when there is a violent crazy person running around isn't the best idea? Gabriel is definitely one of those smart people that also do a LOT of dumb things. Like having a crush on Becca for another thing. I kind of get it, she is pretty hot, but...

I admit, the show does a good job at making Vancouver look different in the many locations that the plot takes the show. I like the idea of the different timelines and the different worlds, which would give us some new stories and get us away from Earth based plots, but I worry that it will end up just keeping all of the characters apart, have them all age at different times, and that just sounds messy. I much prefer when the characters are together and not all separated in a bunch of subplots. 

So now we have yet another faction of weirdos to fight. You know with their luck, the Earth Squad will somehow land on the planet that is fully populated by evil man eating robot dinosaurs. 

[AudienceofOne]

On 5/28/2020 at 11:53 AM, quarks said:

when, exactly, did Octavia learn to swim?

The funny thing about his comment was me rolling my eyes earlier at Echo suddenly being a semi-automatic weapons expert. This show has always done this thing where a person is exposed to a new thing (here's a weapon, this is how Grounders fight) and within one or two episodes they're super experts. 

On 5/28/2020 at 12:35 PM, Lady Calypso said:

Otherwise, I am liking this Anomaly plot WAYYYY more than anything they plan to do in Sanctum

Oh God, not me. What a convoluted mess. The SPIRAL that is INSIDE YOU represents NUMBERS that power the MACHINES that lifts the BRIDGE that takes people from Sanctum but sends them to somewhere else and it's the Beta planet and the armoured soldiers send their prisoners there and there's a TIME DILATION and everyone loses their memories but then regains them and how many episodes is this season supposed to be??? 

It's like they're so lost for ideas that they just throw as many things into the pot as possible. It is possible they are angling for a time reset, which would be a crappy ending.

On 5/28/2020 at 2:03 PM, ottoDbusdriver said:

If planet Beta/Sky Ring is in close proximity to a black hole, shouldn't time move slower -- not faster ?

Yep. They've got it the wrong way around. 

 

[Lady Calypso]

3 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

Yep. They've got it the wrong way around. 

That's why it's the opposite way around. Beta is the furthest from the black hole, not the closest (I'm pretty sure someone said that in the episode).

3 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

Oh God, not me. What a convoluted mess. The SPIRAL that is INSIDE YOU represents NUMBERS that power the MACHINES that lifts the BRIDGE that takes people from Sanctum but sends them to somewhere else and it's the Beta planet and the armoured soldiers send their prisoners there and there's a TIME DILATION and everyone loses their memories but then regains them and how many episodes is this season supposed to be??? 

I don't expect any of it to really make sense. But why I prefer it to the Sanctum stuff right now is because it's new and it's fresh. We've already seen factions fighting for power for the entire series. Literally, the Sanctum plot of the different groups wanting power is something we've been seeing before. Sheidheda probably taking over Sanctum is something we've seen in previous seasons, with Pike and Arkadia. What can they provide that's new there? Not much, I gather. Our heroes will win, Sheidheda will lose, Sanctum will eventually be run by the right people (whether by Murphy/Emori, by Jordan, or by someone else) and anyone opposing it will be taken down. 

I understand that there's a chance that the Anomaly plot goes in the exact same direction with things we've seen before but, at the moment, it's still new enough where I'm interested. I'm not here for the accuracy of the science or anything like that. I know they're making shit up as they go along. But if we're getting several of the main characters in the Anomaly stuff right now, I'd rather ALL of them were a part of it. I DON'T know what's going to happen with the Anomaly stuff and that's why I'm interested. I can change my mind if we discover that there's a bunch of people vying for power in Bardo or whatever...but right now, it's interesting and new. 

[quarks]

4 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

The funny thing about his comment was me rolling my eyes earlier at Echo suddenly being a semi-automatic weapons expert. This show has always done this thing where a person is exposed to a new thing (here's a weapon, this is how Grounders fight) and within one or two episodes they're super experts. 

Yeah, that was a bit odd too, but at least with the guns, a) given that apparently everyone in Skykru was able to use semi-automatics without training, I figured that the Ark probably had some sort of virtual reality/video game gun training system. Echo had five years to practice with that, and b) I also took it as part of the standard "what, you need to LEARN to shoot a gun?" deal that permeates all of American films/television, apart from the occasional scene of someone practicing at a shooting range. 

But you're right about the instant expertise in general on this show. On a similar note, really lucky that Octavia and Diyoza turned out to be expert gardeners, and not, say, the sort of "wow, did that tomato vine keel over quickly" sort that some of us (ok, me) are this year. 

(Apparently I am Wahnheda, except with tomatoes.)

[ottoDbusdriver]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

That's why it's the opposite way around. Beta is the furthest from the black hole, not the closest (I'm pretty sure someone said that in the episode).

That means the writers got that wrong too -- if you are the furthest from a black hole, time just runs closer to normal (and definitely not sped up).

[foxfreakinmulder]

23 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Young Hope was really cute (and of course I love a kid whos favorite character is Murphy!) but I am not really feeling grown up Hope. If you need Gabriel and Diyoza to help you, or even just go along with your plan, maybe, like, give them information and dont be an asshole to them for no reason? I guess we will get more flashbacks to her childhood? 

I agree. It's hard for me to like her when she's always in bitch mode.

I thought this episode was bad from the acting to the stupid let me set my tablet down and go outside to ask someone to help me find a pencil because I can't look myself. Oh, and don't get me started on the birth scene.

Why did the invisible soldiers come to the planet to grab Bellamy to take him to the prison world?

I'm not a big fan of time travel or time whatever shows because they're usually not done in a way it makes any since it gets too confusing and hurts my brain :-(    

[AudienceofOne]

9 hours ago, quarks said:

really lucky that Octavia and Diyoza turned out to be expert gardeners, and not, say, the sort of "wow, did that tomato vine keel over quickly" sort

I mean I once managed to kill a cactus so I spent that whole sequence wondering how many harvests they'd screwed up before they finally got it right.

[quarks]

3 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

I mean I once managed to kill a cactus so I spent that whole sequence wondering how many harvests they'd screwed up before they finally got it right.

And they didn't even have access to overly optimistic YouTube videos supposedly showing you How To Grow Tomatoes.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

That means the writers got that wrong too -- if you are the furthest from a black hole, time just runs closer to normal (and definitely not sped up).

But if the reference point for time is Sanctum and they were closer to the black hole', then Beta can be normal time and Sanctum slow time making it so they were gone years but little time has passed for Clarke and the others.

Then that works right?  That will also end with a black hole swallowing the planet and they'll need to move onto planet number 3.

Edited May 30, 2020 by ParadoxLost

[SourK]

I kind of liked this. I was pleasantly surprised that Diyoza is still alive and a character. I was 100% sure she was going to die in childbirth. I also liked getting some context for what happened with Octavia when she went into the magic anomaly.

I have more questions than answers at this point, but I find the questions interesting.

On 5/27/2020 at 11:37 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Heh, Echo is totally regretting stepping foot into this Anomaly, huh?  It's too bad I still feel like she cares more for Bellamy than he does for her.

 

I realized this episode that I really want her to be happy at the end of this. I've gone from not remembering who she is to rooting for her.

On 5/28/2020 at 12:19 PM, tennisgurl said:

I guess Gabriel has spent so much time with his hippies, that he forgot that maybe just leaving important stuff around when there is a violent crazy person running around isn't the best idea?

I actually forgot that random guy was there, but my question was: why didn't the super special note with the code on it travel in whatever container kept Gabriel's tablet safe from the water? Or why didn't he take a picture of it and back it up?

From a story telling POV, I also feel like losing the McGuffin through negligence twice in a row is a lot.

On 5/28/2020 at 12:19 PM, tennisgurl said:

So now we have yet another faction of weirdos to fight. You know with their luck, the Earth Squad will somehow land on the planet that is fully populated by evil man eating robot dinosaurs. 

With their luck, though, they would kill the robot dinosaurs while trying to make peace with them and one would fall in love.

[AudienceofOne]

On 5/28/2020 at 1:37 PM, thuganomics85 said:

  It's too bad I still feel like she cares more for Bellamy than he does for her.

Bellamy is in love with Clarke and has been for years IMHO. I'm surprised Echo is still alive since I would have bet big dollars they were going to put Clarke and Bellamy together by the end.

[Guest]

I don't think that the show has done a particularly good job integrating the newer core and recurring cast members.  As a result, I tend to struggle with any episode that doesn't have at least two OGs in a lot of scenes together.

As a result of Bellamy, Clarke, Murphy, and Raven all being missing from this one, I found the episode a particular slog to get through.

 

[Ziggy]

On 5/27/2020 at 8:53 PM, quarks said:

6. Speaking of questionable things, they were remarkably lucky to find a place that just happened to have seeds for tomatoes and squash, weren't they?

Shortly after Hope was born, Diyoza talked about how there was plenty of food on this planet.  I just assumed that there were already tomatoes, squash, etc., growing there, so they saved the seeds (rather than eating them).

[Ziggy]

On 6/1/2020 at 8:13 PM, ParadoxLost said:

I don't think that the show has done a particularly good job integrating the newer core and recurring cast members.  As a result, I tend to struggle with any episode that doesn't have at least two OGs in a lot of scenes together.

As a result of Bellamy, Clarke, Murphy, and Raven all being missing from this one, I found the episode a particular slog to get through.

 

I hear what you're saying, but I was very much looking forward to learning more about the anomaly.  The story on Sanctum is the same story of various factions never figuring out how to co-exist.  I did miss the characters, but I can't wait to learn more about the other planets and how the anomaly works and where Diyoza, Bellamy and Octavia are.  I'd also like to know why the "disciples" wanted them so badly!

Edited June 7, 2020 by Ziggy

[ottoDbusdriver]

6 hours ago, Ziggy said:

Shortly after Hope was born, Diyoza talked about how there was plenty of food on this planet.  I just assumed that there were already tomatoes, squash, etc., growing there, so they saved the seeds (rather than eating them).

I guess the original colonists on Beta/Skyring left by the Eligius 3 planted vast fields of vegetables.  Either that or tomatoes/squash are universal.  #sarcasm

[Ziggy]

2 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

I guess the original colonists on Beta/Skyring left by the Eligius 3 planted vast fields of vegetables.  Either that or tomatoes/squash are universal.  #sarcasm

Perhaps Eligious 3 had seeds on board in case they did find a planet to live on.