Atlanta’s Missing and Murdered: The Lost Children

[Luckylyn]

“Atlanta's Missing And Murdered: The Lost Children is a five-part documentary series offering an unprecedented look at the abduction and murder of at least 30 African-American children and young adults in Atlanta between 1979 and 1981. Forty years later, with the official re-opening of the case by Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms, the series tells the inside story of this shocking tragedy, shedding new light on the horrific killings through exclusive archival material as well as interviews with those closest to the children and investigation.”

[DangerousMinds]

Am I the only one who has been watching this?

[Luckylyn]

I have been watching.  It’s a story I read about in I think Vanity Fair a while ago.   I only had a vague knowledge and appreciate the depth of the docuseries.  It’s a story that should be more well known.

[cpcathy]

I'm watching, it's fascinating. Some of the story was covered in the brilliant season two of Mindhunter if anyone wants a fictionalized version.

My husband and I go back and forth on if Wayne Williams committed these murders, or not. I think he did.

Edited April 21, 2020 by cpcathy

[DangerousMinds]

33 minutes ago, cpcathy said:

I'm watching, it's fascinating. Some of the story was covered in the brilliant season two of Mindhunter if anyone wants a fictionalized version.

My husband go back and forth on if Wayne Williams committed these murders, or not. I think he did.

Didn't the murders stop after Williams was arrested? Definitely seems to points to his guilt.

[Deanie87]

I'm watching too. I think he probably did do it.  I vaguely remember from when I was young and I had always assumed that it was a completely watertight case so to see so many people doubt it is interesting. I'm glad they are giving this such a thorough look.

[atlantaloves]

Oh I lived through this in Atlanta, and let me tell you, Williams did it. I knew a gal who worked for the Georgia Bureau of Investigation who worked on the fiber evidence and gave me scoop all the time about this case. THERE WAS NO DOUBT HE DID IT. They had him cold, and yes, the murders did stop after he was arrested. This is a great series. I totally recommend it. 

[Epeolatrix]

I've been watching, but I got tired of arguing with people, so I'm reading without comment.

 

[Guest]

I always had my doubts about Wayne Williams' guilt. After watching the latest episode, there's no doubt left -- don't think he had anything to do with them. Holy shit with the bullshit "dog hair" evidence. And then the GA Supreme Court was ready to rule in his favor until someone placed a phone call to intervene? Oh, hell no. 

I feel so sorry for the mothers of those murdered boys who were terrorized and marginalized simply because they were pressing for answers. I hope they'll get some justice. I hope Wayne Williams will get some justice, too.

 

[Epeolatrix]

Okay, so... I've decided I can handle a bit of argument because I feel secure in my sources. I haven't seen the latest episode yet, so I might be talking about things already covered; if so, sorry. The tl;dr version is that I think Wayne might have killed some of the victims, but I don't think he killed all of them.

I'm willing to accept the ones where there's DNA evidence, but forensic science for things like hair and fiber isn't as much a sure thing as we believe, and it was likely even less so back then when the science wasn't quite as sophisticated as it is now. I think the pedophile ring involving John David Wilcoxen was responsible (or connected at the very least) for some, due to him and friends being a common link between a few of the children. I also would not be surprised if a couple were klan related, meaning the people who said they were in the klan and also bragged about killing kids. Yeah, maybe they were just trying to seem more important than they were, but it seems short-sighted to not have given it more consideration.

Lastly, the killings did not necessarily stop when they arrested Williams; authorities stopped adding cases to the list. Also, there had been deaths that fit the criteria of the list, but weren't added when the ATKID case was still active, so even determining the actual victims remains a challenge. Do I think there was a massive and purposeful cover-up and framing of Wayne Williams? No. I think it was an extreme situation, a complex tangle of possible killers and possible victims, and authorities were overwhelmed.

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, Violet Impulse said:

but forensic science for things like hair and fiber isn't as much a sure thing as we believe

Last night's episode was quite an eye opener about the dog hair and carpet fiber the prosecution used to convict Williams -- and HOW they used used it.

I don't know about the frame up of Williams, I just think they used the evidence they had to make it FIT to Wayne Williams because they didn't really care to look further. I can't remember the poor boy's name now, but in the episode last night, they talked about how the police had an eyewitness to the child's murder who identified some known child molester as the killer  ... and ignored them. That being said, they had the gall to put a Klan member on the stand willing to testify against Williams whose legal name wasn't the one he testified under. 

It's just an all-around horrible miscarriage of justice for everyone involved.

[Dr.OO7]

On 4/20/2020 at 5:33 PM, DangerousMinds said:

Didn't the murders stop after Williams was arrested? Definitely seems to points to his guilt.

That's one of the key reasons I think he's guilty.

But overall, I don't know what to think. Some very valid points regarding his possible innocence have been made.

[Guest]

I think the point was made on tonight's episode that the killings may have also stopped because the Klan Bros were put on notice and the pedos suspected in one of the boy's murders were in jail, too. 

I'm Team Klan involvement all the way. At the bare minimum, Williams should be entitled to a new trial.

[JayD83]

Everywhere that I've been reading about this, almost all people believe that either Wayne did most if not all murders, or they believe the Klan did it, or they believe the pedo ring did it. 

I agree with the theory presented in episode 5 - I think the Klan did some, the pedo ring (Wilcox and Terrell and associates) did some, and Brooks killed Clifford Jones.  I also believe the city of Atlanta/GBI/FBI covered it up and not just because of the Klan involvement. 

What I am kinda unsure about is whether I believe Wayne Williams killed anyone.  I do believe 100% that he was involved in luring kids (that whole record label, Jackson 5 thing, the 7 year old that fingered him in the projects) but I don't believe he threw the body over the bridge that night - he had a police scanner he would know they would be there. 

Edited May 4, 2020 by JayD83

[Guest]

1 hour ago, JayD83 said:

I also believe the city of Atlanta/GBI/FBI covered it up and not just because of the Klan involvement. 

Agree with this. 

Did they ever mention last night if the CI was able to get a dog hair sample or carpet sample from the Klan guy's house? And if so, were those fibers tested or were they garbage samples that passed through the contaminated FBI lab? 

And the GBI guy on the stand who wanted to speak to his attorney when under examination was sketchy AF. 

I think Wayne Williams was a big, old 70s-era, over-achieving nerd. And I also don't agree that he threw that body in the river. Williams is a very petite man. No way could he dead lift a body like that size. Plus, wasn't it determined that the body retrieved from the river had been in there for far longer than the day the police claim they heard that "splash?" 

[JayD83]

55 minutes ago, Giant Misfit said:

Agree with this. 

Did they ever mention last night if the CI was able to get a dog hair sample or carpet sample from the Klan guy's house? And if so, were those fibers tested or were they garbage samples that passed through the contaminated FBI lab? 

And the GBI guy on the stand who wanted to speak to his attorney when under examination was sketchy AF. 

I think Wayne Williams was a big, old 70s-era, over-achieving nerd. And I also don't agree that he threw that body in the river. Williams is a very petite man. No way could he dead lift a body like that size. Plus, wasn't it determined that the body retrieved from the river had been in there for far longer than the day the police claim they heard that "splash?" 

The informant said he was told to get fiber evidence from the Sanders guy - he said he did, from a green rug and an Alaskan Husky dog - which is important in and of itself because before Wayne Williams became the "only" suspect, law enforcement was putting in the reports that they were looking for an Alaskan Husky or similar dog. After WW was charged, the description turned into a German Shepard - WW's dog.

And yes, the coroner concluded that the body in the river had been dead (and in the water) for far longer than the 2 days since the "splash". 

[Luckylyn]

There’s enough reasonable doubt and the investigation was not handled properly.   It isn’t even clear that all the murders had the same killer.  At minimum, a new trial is needed. 
 

[funky-rat]

I believe Wayne Williams had some sort of involvement, but not all of them fit, and I don't believe all are related.  I've never been able to escape the feeling that Williams might have been in the closet, and was being sneaky about things (as you had to back then, and still do in some areas).  He could have also been luring kids for someone else, theoretically.  I don't know how they could lump the little girl in with the murders, and the adults.  If I figured him for any of them, I lean toward the adults, despite him being a smaller guy.  Again, going back to my feeling that he might have been in the closet, and they were trysts.

[Concerned]

On 4/21/2020 at 9:11 PM, Deanie87 said:

I'm watching too. I think he probably did do it.  I vaguely remember from when I was young and I had always assumed that it was a completely watertight case so to see so many people doubt it is interesting. I'm glad they are giving this such a thorough look.

People just couldn’t believe that those kids were killed by one of their own. The Klan had been monstrous, but accepting that a Black man had killed those kids was difficult. It’s like how Muslims have a hard time accepting that Muslims flew into the World Trade Center, killed 50 people at an Orlando gay club or bombed the Boston Marathon. It’s easy to accept that outsiders are evil, but much tougher when it’s one of your own.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Concerned

[Racj82]

The killings stopping after Wayne was captured mean nothing to me. Those involved knew they got away with it because the cops had a scapegoat. Why continue when you've got away with it? 

I do think Wayne is guilty of some, not all.

There is one incident that always sticks out to me. 

Two of the kids murdered during this time were taken out their home while asleep on the second floor. No sign of forced entry. One person did not carry two kids out of a two story window. And with no one noticing.

[Enero]

On 8/24/2020 at 11:22 AM, Racj82 said:

The killings stopping after Wayne was captured mean nothing to me. Those involved knew they got away with it because the cops had a scapegoat. Why continue when you've got away with it? 

I do think Wayne is guilty of some, not all.

There is one incident that always sticks out to me. 

Two of the kids murdered during this time were taken out their home while asleep on the second floor. No sign of forced entry. One person did not carry two kids out of a two story window. And with no one noticing.

I forget which documentary it was I watched on this, but the agents who investigated the Atlanta child murders stated they believed those killings were carried out by family members. I definitely think the two females who were killed, one of which was abducted from her home were not Williams’ doing. Nor do I believe one of the first children killed via gunshot was Williams. However, I think, for the most part, the other killings were him. 

 

[Racj82]

On 8/26/2020 at 9:21 PM, Enero said:

I forget which documentary it was I watched on this, but the agents who investigated the Atlanta child murders stated they believed those killings were carried out by family members. I definitely think the two females who were killed, one of which was abducted from her home were not Williams’ doing. Nor do I believe one of the first children killed via gunshot was Williams. However, I think, for the most part, the other killings were him. 

 

That's part of the problem though. They threw every single black child murder at that time on Williams so they could solve the case and that's bull. No way he was the only one. That's the only thing he's innocent of. Not being the only one.

I don't know if it's still on YouTube but I saw a miniseries based on the murders that aired in the 80s. It's was really good but frightening at the same time.

Nevermind found it.

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Racj82

[Growsonwalls]

I'm actually doing this case in my forensics class. I think Wayne Williams killed some. I think he probably killed the two adults. He definitely seemed to be a creepy guy who cruised around the neighborhood looking for brief male encounters. I could see him killing these people out of fear of being caught.

The follow-up is that Wayne Williams' DNA was matched to some of the victims. The fiber evidence remains strong. So he's guilty of some of the murders.

I don;t think he's guilty of all of them.