S02.E03: Lady of the Lake

[yeswedo]

 

Emma and Mary Margaret try to find a portal that would bring them back to Storybrooke; Henry tries to talk Jefferson into reuniting with his daughter; on the eve of meeting Prince Charming's mother, King George poisons Snow White.

 

Note: please use spoiler tags when referring to major events that happen after this episode to allow new viewers to choose to be spoiled.

[Camera One]

I liked this episode, in which they did a good job with both the flashback and the post-apocalyptic Enchanted Forest plot.  

 

The main problem with the flashback was the usual stupiditis... having Snow White willingly drink water from the enemy and having Charming's mother wandering out during the sword fight was infuriating.  I was kind of disappointed they killed her off, though that did make the scenes more emotionally moving. I thought she had good chemistry with Snow and Charming, so there were some nice moments between them.

 

The Team Princess plot still had momentum in this episode, which was important.  They had a clear objective and they actually fit in good character moments instead of pointless action scenes; for example, the awesome Emma-gets-to-see-her-mom-in-action.  The heartbreaking nursery conversation was the highlight of this episode for me.  It gave me hope that they really were going to include some character moments.  Much like the "Lost Girl" conversation, it was a one-off and nothing for the rest of the season, pretty much.  

 

This episode was also the first time they did the body snatcher trick which has become way overused now.  I hope Lancelot is still alive, though doubtful.  I remember when it seemed like a big deal when they said Lancelot coming to "Once"!  and of course it was just for one episode.  I was pleasantly surprised they revealed the whole Cora/Lancelot thing by the end of this episode instead of dragging it out.  From the first five minutes, I was really dreading that Emma would trust Cora.  They also ended the idiotic Aurora-trying-to-kill-Snow subplot.  It was very Season 2 Lost, with Mulan and Aurora dragging Emma and Snow to the safe haven in the previous episode.  So unnecessary and stupid.

 

I did think Jefferson was severely underused in this episode, and the Storybrooke subplot should have been separated out.  I think they learned the mistake of doing three narratives in a single episode.  Jefferson and Paige reuniting wasn't very satisfying since we saw too little of it.  They should have done this in another episode, and Henry should have spoken to both Paige and Jefferson.  They might have been able to give this at least one more scene if they cut out the Aurora vengeance stuff.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

Aside from what Camera One said, my only qualm with this episode was the ogre encounter with Emma. She really looked like an idiot in the Enchanted Forest, especially when she fired the gun to let every ogre around know where she was. I know EF was new to her, but Emma is very street-smart. I thought her survival skills would have been at least slightly better than what was depicted. 

[KAOS Agent]

I really hate when they knock down a character to suit their plot. Emma often gets the worst of this. Just like Emma believing Sydney in Season 1, here she is talking to a stranger and sharing information that there is no way closed off, cynical, distrustful Emma would ever share. Next, the rest of Team Princess treat her like a baby who is certainly not capable of collecting some firewood and needs to just stay out of the way. And of course, they need to justify this ridiculous treatment of Emma by making her into a total idiot with the ogre. Which is then completely turned around a few scenes later with her quick thinking to use the gun powder in her bullets to burn the wardrobe. So Emma is an idiot who can't do anything and then reverts back to the quick thinking, street smart woman she is within the same episode. Now, of course, Emma is suddenly completely competent in the Enchanted Forest because going forward we can't have Team Princess treating her like she's only good for protecting a big empty clearing. 

[Camera One]

I agree it could have been done better.  However, disregarding the specifics, I do think it was still an interesting idea for Emma to be out of her element and have to defer to Snow and Mulan who have experience in the Enchanted Forest.  Perhaps give a suggestion of a better scenario which would have made the same point?  

 

While watching the episode, I didn't really get the sense that Emma was an idiot who couldn't do anything.  I thought it was understandable considering it was practically her first day in a completely new realm of existence, and it's doubtful she even got a chance to experience even Earth's wilderness due to her childhood.  And the fact that she adjusted by the end of the day and was able to regain her quick thinking was a testament to her adaptability.

[KingOfHearts]

I wish they would have harped more on "OMG I'm in Fairy Tale Land! This place is actually real?! This is Mulan and Sleeping Beauty?!" But that scene apparently played offscreen, as one episode they fall through the portal and land unconscious in EF, then in the next they're being dragged to the Safe Haven like prisoners. It felt like a random forest with different dangers instead of a whimsical world.

 

Lady of the Lake didn't really do anything about it until the confrontation with Cora in the nursery, where it was pretty magical and fantastic. Emma seemed to adjust to people using magic pretty quickly. It's perfectly understandable for Emma to be out of her element, it just didn't execute the way I wanted it to.

Edited July 14, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I wish they would have harped more on "OMG I'm in Fairy Tale Land! This place is actually real?! This is Mulan and Sleeping Beauty?!" But that scene apparently played offscreen, as one episode they fall through the portal and land unconscious in EF, then in the next they're being dragged to the Safe Haven like prisoners.

 

That transition (or lackthereof) in the previous episode was a total letdown.  We're supposed to believe Mulan and Sleeping Beauty didn't even talk to Emma and Snow and just tied them up like they're dangerous evil doers?  It reminded me of what Ana-Lucia and the Tailies did to Jin, Sawyer and Michael, and not in a good way.

[KAOS Agent]

 

I do think it was still an interesting idea for Emma to be out of her element and have to defer to Snow and Mulan who have experience in the Enchanted Forest.  Perhaps give a suggestion of a better scenario which would have made the same point?

 

The whole first day of Emma in the Enchanted Forest was supposed to reflect Emma going through the stages of childhood. It didn't work for me because when in an unknown and potentially dangerous situation, Emma wouldn't react like a petulant teenager. It's not in character and it pulled me out of the story. Emma does defer to the experts on multiple occasions when she's out of her element, so her reaction here was out of character. Even if Emma was angry at Mary Margaret  and frustrated at a whole lot of things, the Emma reaction would be to shut down emotion in this situation and just get through it. That's how Emma survives. Remove the petulant or overly confident Emma (which is another atypical Emma reaction) and the ridiculous putdowns to Emma about just staying put because Emma is useless to them and you still have Snow showing her daughter a different side of herself, have her save Emma from the ogres and have a nice moment in the nursery.

 

Emma is adaptable. Having been in multiple homes throughout her childhood, she would know to stand back and observe how things are. It's how Emma operates. But you know, they could show her out of her element by making her unfamiliar with camping and fire making and swords without turning her into an idiot who fires a warning shot which wastes precious ammunition and attracts ogres. And having her do it because Aurora was threatening Snow? Please.

Edited July 14, 2014 by KAOS Agent

[KingOfHearts]

Having Snow constantly boss Emma around wasn't exactly a highlight of the episode, either. I know she was trying to act as a guide for Emma since EF was her turf, but she just came off as thinking Emma was totally useless. I can see Snow as being protective as any good mother would be, but there were more scenes with pushiness than heart-to-hearts.

 

I would have liked to see Emma see herself in Bandit Snow, instead of the hand-holding.

Edited July 14, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

Emma's Plot Stupidity in this episode was particularly annoying because it was so very much out of character. She's an adapter and survivor. She's not going to just barge into a totally alien situation and act like she knows it all. She's more the type to observe and figure things out on the fly. It's still new enough to her that she could have seen Snow in her element and being a badass without Emma barging into danger and bumbling around. I love Snow in this episode, but Emma is a pod person.

[justmythoughts]

Besides all the boring or unusual parts (Emma being so off, Mulan not questioning the prisioners...) it was a great episode at the end, the Emma and Snow bonding, crying over all the lost time, which make me hate even more current events (S5 ending). 

Spoiler

How is Regina so not holding responsability for breaking this family apart? Besides all the deaths, she got all that pain to be accounting for. But no, now she is a hero, Emma's BFF, snarky whenever it pleases her, only she can deal with pain and demons while all the others have to endure her bitchness! Yeah, I am pissed!

And I realize I am reviving old forums... 

[KingOfHearts]

On 7/14/2014 at 8:51 AM, Shanna Marie said:

Emma's Plot Stupidity in this episode was particularly annoying because it was so very much out of character. She's an adapter and survivor. She's not going to just barge into a totally alien situation and act like she knows it all. She's more the type to observe and figure things out on the fly. It's still new enough to her that she could have seen Snow in her element and being a badass without Emma barging into danger and bumbling around. I love Snow in this episode, but Emma is a pod person.

Emma shooting her gun in the air makes me roll my eyes every time. It would've been more badass if Emma held a gun everywhere and could use it against magical threats.

[daxx]

I hated the way they portrayed Emma in this episode. I loved the way they showed Snow in her element though. They could have done the one without the other easily. The whole scene in the nursery is so wonderful and totally heartbreaking. The flashback was meh. I’d rather have seen a flashback of Snow learning her fighting skills to complement the current storyline. Showing how she is so good and skilled in this land.

[tennisgurl]

There is a lot to like in this episode, and a lot to be annoyed by. So...2a in a nutshell, more or less, from what I remember. 

Emma shooting the gun in Ogre territory is such an amazing bit of plot needed stupidity. I mean, Emma was just told, like, an hours ago, that Ogres track by sound, so she...pointlessly shoots her gun in the air to stop a situation that had already been resolved? I like Emma being in the magical world and being out of her element, but there being out of your element, and theres being stupid. They could have easily had her firing her gun for an actual reason to get them to the Ogre right, without having to make her look like such a dumbass. 

On the other hand, I really love watching Emma and Snow bonding, and Emma seeing that not only is her mom a total badass, but her parents really did love and want her, and were trying to do right by her the whole time. The scene in the nursery is really a series favorite for me, it just hits you right in the gut that this family was town apart, and now they've lost out on all these milestones and moments, all because of this petty curse

Spoiler

Of course, that gets messed up later, buts a whole different clusterfuck. And Regina, of course, never bothers to apologize for taking Emma from her family, depriving her of her parents for 28 years, and Snow and Charming never got to raise her the way they so wanted to. 

I also like the stuff with Mulan and Aurora more than I think I did the first time around. Maybe because they grew on me a lot as the show went on, but I have a lot more sympathy for Aurora now, and she and Mulan are a fun addition to Snow and Emma's princess quest. This is the stuff this show needs to have more of, characters from different stories all coming together to have adventures, sometimes clashing, sometimes working together. And I do like a lot of Emma being stuck in the EF. Like Emma being all "fee fi fo fum" and Snow is just "thats giants, not ogres" all nonchalant, while Emma is just in full on "seriously?!" all the time. 

I like the guy who played Lancelot quite a bit. He had a real dignity about him, and the hints about Camelot showed a lot of promise. 

Spoiler

Mush of which didnt really happen when we actually got to Camelot later. Also, interesting, Lancelot prays in thanks to God when he finds the water, which sounds right for someone from Camelot, but when we got there, with the exception of that never explained Holy Grail, they never mentioned God or Judaeo Christian mythology once. Because I guess that might have given Camelot some flavor and been true to the course, and we cant have that! I guess they were too far into All Hail Regina and Retcons everywhere to remember what they already seemed to be setting up. Also nice to remember that Cora coldly murdered Lancelot, and she got to go off to heaven after she made peace with her daughters, without any real remorse from her other evil acts. Because the afterlife/cosmology in the Once verse is seriously messed up.

Wow, they actually made me feel bad for Regina for a second when Henry stood her up! Even with Regina being...Regina, I did feel bad for her when she was all excited to meet up with Henry, and he was just manipulating her. Guess he takes after his adopted grandma/mom a bit here and there. I do like him and Charming bonding in this episode, and him getting Jefferson to reunite with Grace. That was a nice little subplot, and its great to see a supporting character actually get some closure. Well, as much as anyone other than A&Es favorites get. 

[KingOfHearts]

16 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I mean, Emma was just told, like, an hours ago, that Ogres track by sound, so she...pointlessly shoots her gun in the air to stop a situation that had already been resolved?

If she were in "The Quiet Place" movie, she'd be the first to die.

16 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

his is the stuff this show needs to have more of, characters from different stories all coming together to have adventures, sometimes clashing, sometimes working together.

A&E tried to do this so many times and kept failing miserably. They thought slapping random characters together created instant chemistry.

Spoiler

Such as Belle's centrics with Anna, Merida, Mulan, etc., Hook's adventure with Ariel, Jasmine, and Aladdin, and the Mulan/Red/Merida adventure in The Bear King..

16 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Wow, they actually made me feel bad for Regina for a second when Henry stood her up! Even with Regina being...Regina, I did feel bad for her when she was all excited to meet up with Henry, and he was just manipulating her.

Probably because Regina was actually eager to change at the time and didn't whine about it.

Edited August 25, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[andromeda331]

I agree with so many points I love Emma out of her element and Snow explaining that's giants not ogres. Emma seeing her mother in a different light. I'm not so sure she would have been able to do so back in Storybrooke. To see her as her mother and also Snow White not just Mary Margaret. I wouldn't have minded Emma doing something stupid if she hadn't been warned earlier how Ogres track and if she really thought her mother was in danger. By the time Emma shot off her gun Snow already had a handle on the situation. I love how quickly Snow was able to flip Aurora. It makes sense with her life as a bandit and who knows maybe that was something most people in the Enchanted Forest learned growing up. I loved seeing Emma, Snow, Aurora and Mulan together. Emma setting the wardrobe on fire. Cora pretending to be Lancelot was a really good twist. Snow imagining the nursery before it was destroyed and crying. Snow and Emma talking in the nursery. Emma's surprise that it was her nursery that she was wanted. 

I loved Henry going to talk to Jefferson and mentioning how it felt to be left behind. Happy that he helped Jefferson and Grace reunite then his sad face. Charming to the rescue with fake swords. It was the cutest thing to see the two sword fighting. I liked that Charming didn't realize Henry took off. He's never raised a kid so it makes sense he'd trust Henry even if the rest of us are already beating he's not going to school. Good thing he figured that out just in time for the snakes.

I did like a little more follow up that Regina was asked to resign. It was a great step. They should have had elections next or showed Charming and the rest trying to figure the next step out. Maybe have Thomas or his father showing asking about government and what was next. Or Abigail. Or the Dwarves or peasants saying they wanted a voice too.

The flashback I don't know anymore. I liked at the time. But now I'm not sure I do now. 

The part I love and I hate is Emma telling Snow that no one has ever put her first before. Snow hugging her and telling her to get used to it when we know that doesn't happen. We never get Emma and Snow scenes anymore. I loved when Snow told her that and it did make me cry. Then we never got to see any more Snow and Emma scenes except for one in Lost Girl. 

[KingOfHearts]

2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

The flashback I don't know anymore. I liked at the time. But now I'm not sure I do now. 

Yeah, I'm pretty "meh" on the flashback because it's so inconsequential. It's sweet that Snow got to meet Charming's mom and everything, and it needed to be explain what happened to that character, but Lancelot was just thrown in there. There's not much of a reason for him to be there. Retconning the wedding vows was pretty pointless, as was the reversed curse of barrenness. It wasn't very relevant to the episode's events in the present, other than Lancelot knowing Snow.

King George was a waste here. He was just being a jerk because he could be. The backstory about his wife being poisoned was unnecessary and..

Spoiler

it was never brought up again. We never found out who the witch was or why she poisoned her. 

Edited August 26, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[companionenvy]

Agree that the present-day scenes mostly work here, but that the flashback was a little pointless. I'm also not wild about the message that Charming's mother sacrificing her life so that Snowing can have a biological kid -- when Snow has literally been cursed, like, five minutes ago, and they haven't tried any other way of reversing it -- is a noble and reasonable gesture. This is a world with magic. Charming's mother didn't have time to explore other possibilities. Snowing would have, and at worst, they could have adopted a child. 

- Love, love, love Emma getting to see her nursery and realizing how loved and wanted she was.

- Charming offering to teach Henry how to swordfight is adorable.

- Yes, in spite of myself I feel bad for Regina when Henry stands her up. Also: Henry, for all his sweetness, can be a cold little bastard. I get why he did what he did, but that's some next-level manipulation. 

Spoiler

Definitely has some of Rumple's blood in him. And this isn't the last time this manipulative streak will come up.

 

- Jefferson and Grace reuniting was sweet, and poignant given that you know Henry is wondering when he's going to see his mother again. 

[Shanna Marie]

I think this is where it becomes obvious that they're just making up random events to put in the flashbacks rather than having a particular backstory in mind that's part of any kind of plan. There was no real reason the guest soldier had to be Lancelot, other than that it was a familiar name, and it being him after we'd learned he was "the Leviathan" who was working for George would be a Shocking!Twist. The whole "cursed into infertility" thing was pointless, since we already knew Snow had given birth to Emma. It's not like there was any suspense there.

I think I'm more bothered by Emma, whose defining character trait is supposedly WALLS!, babbling all the details about her life, relationship with Regina via Henry, and details about Henry to a random stranger they've just met than I am by her firing the gun after being warned about the ogres. At least with that, it wasn't entirely out of character. Emma's WALLS are about as consistent as her lie detector superpower. They only exist when that will drive the plot, but if they need her to randomly trust someone for the plot, then she's incredibly gullible and trusting.

It's a pity Snow didn't get to give the same speech she gave Aurora to Regina, the one about how she's sorry something bad happened, but it wasn't her fault, and vengeance isn't justice. Because it would have been just as applicable.

In general, though, I liked the present-day part of this one. I like the Team Princess stuff. I liked that they showed Aurora could be tough in her own way without having to be a badass warrior woman. I loved Emma getting to see her mother in her element and seeing the nursery. And I love the interaction of David and Henry. It's very natural.