S03.E02: The Winter Line

[Head-Full-Of-Thi]

My full impression of the ep:

 

* I did like the episode very much. The part when Bernard and Stubbs were looking for Maeve in the warehouse, while Maeve realised she's in a simulation, is truly classic Westworld.

But I just realised this is it when it comes to Westworld the park, we won't see it anymore. The parks, the labs, this was probably the last time we saw them. I don't know how I feel about that.

 

* I'm happy we got to see the characters we love like Hector and Lee, while having it still make sense. All of our questions were answered. How is Lee alive? He isn't. Why would they have a WWII park? They don't. Why would they still open parks after what happened? They didn't. I must admit that at some point I thought to myself 'it doesn't make any sense that Lee is alive but I'm here for it if it means we get to see him', and I'm happy that the show didn't listen to me. It found a way to not compromise on the logic, and managed to bring us Lee and Hector and Warworld while still keeping its high level of writing.

Altough I must say I'll really miss Lee, and I'm upset we couldn't spend more time in Warworld as it was absolutely stunning.

 

* Wasn't a fan of the appearance of the letterbox format only when the truth was revealed. They changed the rules that they established last season just to trick us again. And as I said in the previous post I don't like how it opens every scene the the possibility of it being a simulation.

 

* One small thing I would change in the forge scene - I would cancel the glitch that makes Maeve understand that it's a simulation. It would be much better if nothing glitched, but Maeve still started suspecting something's not right. We as the audience wouldn't be sure if she's right or not until she'd do the square root of -1 thing, then we'd have a mindblow moment.

 

* Stubbs - it was great seeing him again. I love the character since season 1, and also he holds a special place in my heart since I totally called him being a host in the beginning of season 2. It was my little theory that I came to completely on my own! And I had proof and everything. It was so fun in last season's final when I saw that I was right.

 

* It was interesting to see a third approach to the whole finding out you're a robot thing. We had 'become badass and do what you want' (Dolores and Maeve), and 'get all broody and philosophical' (Bernard), so it was nice seeing Stubbs being 'fuck alright I'm a robot, let's do what I'm supposed to do'. But on the other hand looks like he didn't achieve consciousness yet (as Bernard was easily able to change his core drive), so it would be interesting to see if that's where that plot will go. He spared his coworker so that might be the start.

 

* The Got cameo was cute, I remember Lisa and Nolan talking about it last season so it was nice to see they really did it. I don't really understand why everyone is so upset with it.

 

* What I really enjoyed in that scene was seeing the parks being dismantled. It really reminded me of the time I worked at a startup that got closed, and in the last month everybody just lied there with nothing to do and tried to convince the CEO to sell them the office computers for a discount.

It brought me back to season 1, and how seeing all the bickering of the park employees made me think about my own job then.

Speaking of which, Serac's simulation really needed QA. Square root of -1 should've been invalid input lmao. I miss Theresa head of QA from season 1.

 

* On a more shallow note - Hector's new haircut with the white in his beard... Luke Hemsworth's shoulder muscles... Oh my god.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Head-Full-Of-Thi

[Dame sans merci]

7 hours ago, The Companion said:

I also said he should have frozen and my only fanwank here is that he was substantially more developed than the NPCs. The processing power would have prioritized him. Alternatively, he has his own globe and therefore has essentially some independent processing/code. That would leave the door open on him coming back too.

So many people have theorized that Stubbs was a robot. I really wish there was less speculation on stuff like that.

I thought it was that he knew because the computer identified anomalies that indicated her presence. She disrupted the system.

Aww on both of these. I have face blindness and struggled to recognize Hector even though I knew it was him from context. 

I agree. He confirmed she didn't have the answers regarding the forge which gave him several critical pieces of information including Delores's role in everything. He did have a lot of information (to rebuild Sizemore) but he made some incorrect assumptions.

 

I loved this episode. I feel like I am always an outlier, but I love this show and particularly Maeve. I enjoyed the simulation twist and some of the other reveals. I enjoyed Drogon and would argue that if this is our world, a ton of people would 100% be ready for GOTworld.

That Lee simulation was very good apart from understanding his relationship with Maeve, which made me wonder if they'd pulled his information from what Rehoboam gathered on him in the real world. For some reason, it couldn't collect data from his time within the park, so they extrapolated based on what they had  - wrongly - because they couldn't account for/anticipate that period of intense change in him.

[The Companion]

57 minutes ago, Dame sans merci said:

That Lee simulation was very good apart from understanding his relationship with Maeve, which made me wonder if they'd pulled his information from what Rehoboam gathered on him in the real world. For some reason, it couldn't collect data from his time within the park, so they extrapolated based on what they had  - wrongly - because they couldn't account for/anticipate that period of intense change in him.

I was assuming they had data up until the robot revolution, because at that point they were no longer able to track it. So they had to guess at what would have motivated him. And in fairness, Sizemore grew a conscience was probably fairly less probable. 😆

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 3/23/2020 at 12:19 AM, scrb said:

Why not make a pause switch for Dolores if he’s so threatened?
 

He was only able to make one for Maeve because he constructed Maeve's new body with a pause function for the switch to trigger.

On 3/23/2020 at 1:07 AM, Quilt Fairy said:

This seems like a major plot hole to me.  Although the massacre inside Westworld is common knowledge, how would anyone know that a host made it to the outside world?

The "divergences" in Rehoboam's predictive output.

23 hours ago, Starchild said:

Didn't they say last week that Liam's father invented the System? This guy Seurac doesn't seem to be Liam's father, especially since Liam is a "Jr."

 

18 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

It could be that Seurac is lying about being the creator of the system. Or it could be that Seurac is lying about his actual name.

He and Liam Sr. were co-creators, and apparently the latter was the public one. Dolores got Seurac's name from the man she replaced last episode. He locked Liam Jr. out of the system after his father died, and Liam Jr. implied he may have killed him as well.

[Athena]

I like this show: the visuals, the world building, the music, most of the actors and some of the writing. 

I love Thandie Newton's Maeve the most. I find her character is the heart of this show. She imbues Maeve with such intelligence and wit, but also with warmth. All her interactions and discussions with Sim!Sizemore showed that range. It should be interesting to see how she gets out or if she goes along to play along with Cassel's Serac character.

I like the Bernard/Stubbs buddy cop movie happening as well. If they pair up with Maeve, that will be even more fun. 

The GoT cameos were crap.

[Quilt Fairy]

20 hours ago, The Companion said:

I have face blindness and struggled to recognize Hector even though I knew it was him from context. 

He looks better in a Stetson. 

 

[tennisgurl]

I love Maeve, so this is automatically going to be a better episode for me, with just her presence. She had so many great moments throughout being badass and awesome, but I especially loved her emotional beats, especially when Hector called her by her War World name, and she just looked so heartbroken, and later when she realized that Lee wasnt real, and that he really had died. She actually teared up! I realized that she was in a simulation or something pretty soon,the whole thing seemed off, especially her being in the lab again. 

I really liked that Maeve realized that this was off because Lee was programmed to be in love with her, as thats what their algorithm/person in charge could only imagine would have made him want to help her, and not just that he wanted to do the right thing. I think it tied in with the part last week when they talked about how algorithms tell people exactly what they are best suited for in the real world, but that just cant give a full look at a person and at their potential, your only seeing the surface or what you can get as available data. Of course, I can image that any person/algorithm would think it would be more likely that Lee would turn into Drogon the Dragon than have a crap ton of character development and sacrifice himself just to save others! 

Oh yeah, I caught that DnD cameo. Looks like they went and got laid off and have to sell their dragons to that Hammond guy down in Costa Roca! Can we just say that the entity of the last GoT season was just a park gone haywire? 

This guy at the end...so whats his deal? The whole scene with him seemed so weird, it almost made me wonder if he isnt a human at all, but some higher form of super AI? The way he said "my kind" sounded really ambiguous to me, but maybe this show is just making me paranoid about plot twists. 

Stubbs being a host isnt shocking, but what was surprising was that he is a self aware host. He and Bernard seem like they could be a fun team, but no more re-writing codes Bernard. Like Stubbs said, you can just ask.

[dr pepper]

On 3/23/2020 at 7:35 PM, mac123x said:

I think they were going for an homage to another Star Trek episode when the computer was possessed (just roll with it) and Kirk asked it to compute pi to the final digit just to tie up the processing power.

I wish they'd actually just copied that instead of trying to be clever, because "what is the square root of -1?" is a relatively easily answered question.

Both "confuse a computer by giving it a logical paradox" and "confuse a computer by giving it a problem that consumes all its resources" are scifi tropes older than Star Trek.

23 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I love Maeve, so this is automatically going to be a better episode for me, with just her presence. She had so many great moments throughout being badass and awesome, but I especially loved her emotional beats, especially when Hector called her by her War World name

I liked when she said her first line. Even as her voice maintains the proper tone of harshness, her facial expression is saying, wait, why am i saying this, and why am i speaking italian?

[ahpny]

On 3/23/2020 at 10:14 PM, Quilt Fairy said:

At this point, I have not seen any link between Delos, which kept its data and its patents vigorously secret

Patents are never "secret." Indeed, their very premise requires disclosure of the invention. The rationale behind patents - at least in the US now - is the inventor get to practice his or her invention exclusively for 20 years, and in exchange, the public gets the knowledge about that invention.

"Trade Secrets" are something else. They can, however, last forever. Delos' data could indeed be trade secrets, though the unauthorized acquisition of it could call into question who has legal ownership of that data.

[taanja]

On 3/23/2020 at 3:23 PM, PotterOtherP said:

I liked the first episode, but not this one, and it seemed to have JJ Abrams' fingerprints all over it. A bunch of stuff happens which is confusing for no other reason than to make the audience wonder what's going on, and then meaningless *reveals* happen. Wink-wink references. Mysterious new characters who promise answers but ultimately tell us nothing we don't already know. Going back to an island. Looking for someone, thinking we found them except it's not really them so we're going to keep looking.

Right! Haha! I am LOST!!!!

But anyway I enjoy this show though half the time I've got no clue whats happening or who some of the characters are.

But I do know who Delores is and Maeve and Bernard.  I like all three and am interested in all their stories.

Is it bad I don't want Maeve and Delores to fight against one another? I want them to ultimately join forces and destroy all of mankind! Bwaaa!!!

[Nomi 5]

Hi. I made a review about Westworld s03e02 on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKUmWx7IqXg&t=20s 

[Quilt Fairy]

On 3/25/2020 at 10:27 AM, ahpny said:

Patents are never "secret." Indeed, their very premise requires disclosure of the invention.

You're right, I used that word incorrectly.  I was trying to convey that Delos has been portrayed as a powerful, super-secret organization.  To now find out that in the outside world there is a much more powerful organization is disconcerting. 

In the scene where Bernard fixes Stubbs, who is the body laying on the floor?   And when Stubbs coughs up the  - is it a bullet?  - he implies that he did it to safeguard Bernard.  When was he supposed to have swallowed it?

Lastly, does anyone know what the episode title refers to? 

 

[Dame sans merci]

1 hour ago, Quilt Fairy said:

You're right, I used that word incorrectly.  I was trying to convey that Delos has been portrayed as a powerful, super-secret organization.  To now find out that in the outside world there is a much more powerful organization is disconcerting. 

In the scene where Bernard fixes Stubbs, who is the body laying on the floor?   And when Stubbs coughs up the  - is it a bullet?  - he implies that he did it to safeguard Bernard.  When was he supposed to have swallowed it?

Lastly, does anyone know what the episode title refers to? 

 

In answer to your questions: 

1) I think the body on the floor is one of the discarded Bernards - he took the non-explosive C6 from its neck and put it in Stubbs.

2) I believe the bullet Stubbs coughs up is the one he shot himself with. He was supposed to shoot himself, triggering the explosive charge and taking out all the evidence that Bernard is a host with him (and yes, considering hosts take bullets all the time and all have the explosive charge, it would seem to be a very, very bad idea to have them be able to be triggered by a bullet. Westworld's gonna Westworld, I suppose).

3). 'The winter line' was a series of defensive military fortifications built by the Nazis to protect the road to Rome against the Allies in World War 2.

Edited March 26, 2020 by Dame sans merci

[Bill1978]

I confess I gave up on this show about Episode 3 or Season2, it got too complicated for my little mind, plus I didn't like the Dolores demands revenge storyline. I just couldn't connect with it. In Season 1 I had sympathy for her, but that went all out the window in Season 2. When I heard this episode was a Maeve episode I tuned in, sure some things I didn't get from a plot point of view but wow that was a very enjoyable episode. It felt like Westworld Season 1. Willing to check out the next episode because if Maeve signs up to stop Dolores I will finally have a reason to watch Dolores plot. Although there is a good chance with it being set in the real world, I actually wont care.

And I loved the GoT cameo, part of the plot but didn't take away from plot. It felt seamless and purposeful. I liked that they reference Jurassic Park at the same time.

Edited March 28, 2020 by Bill1978
Forgot to mention the easter eggs.

[lucindabelle]

https://youtu.be/QqCiw0wD44U

 

On 3/23/2020 at 5:40 PM, paigow said:

I was  hoping Maeve would crash the simulation using the Captain Kirk / Harry Mudd paradox from TOS Episode "I, Mudd"

Kirk: Norman, everything Harry Mudd says is a lie.

Mudd: Listen carefully Norman... I am lying

On 3/23/2020 at 8:35 PM, mac123x said:

question.

On 3/23/2020 at 8:35 PM, mac123x said:

I think they were going for an homage to another Star Trek episode when the computer was possessed (just roll with it) and Kirk asked it to compute pi to the final digit just to tie up the processing power.

 

I wish they'd actually just copied that instead of trying to be clever, because "what is the square root of -1?" is a relatively easily answered

[AudienceofOne]

I don't really know what to say, I thought this was much weaker thematically than the first episode and just consisted of Maeve replaying her role in previous seasons. Maeve believes she's powerful and the ultimate badass but is just fulfilling the programming dictates of somebody else. We already know this so I don't know why we needed to see it again.

Also can't she get a new plotline? It's depressing seeing a badass WOC being stuck retreading the same ground and I don't get what the show is trying to say by making it happen again - other than the fascist subtext of "we're all just machines in someone else's story", which it made already. And didn't require actual fucking Nazis to do it. The show feels like it's spinning its wheels, filling an episode count in preparation for an inevitable season 4. I'm not impressed.