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S03.E02: The Winter Line

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People put up a lot of walls. Bring a sledgehammer to your life.

Airing Sunday, March 22, 2020.

 

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I thought that Maeve's Nazi story line would bring me back into the show, but 40 minutes in and I DON'T CARE. The Nazi thing lasted about 10 minutes and it went back to her in the Westworld labs trying to infiltrate it from the inside AGAIN.  Maeve as this entity with unlimited power and control over what happens in the park's worlds and in the lab is too far-fetched for my liking.  And now she's in assassin mode?   Plus, they are making it complicated with this what is "real vs not real" garbage.  Was that guy Lee real? - beats the hell outta me.  And I don't care about sad sack Bernard and that Hemsworth's being sentient or not.  I will say that Thandie Newton was beautiful in that white dress.

That robot that got shot up by a bunch of guards... what was he stealing?  My attention waned for a bit.  Ha - they stuck in a dragon as a nod to Game of Thrones.

Edited by patty1h · Reason: wrong name - it's Lee, not Simon
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I was wondering what the hell kind of union was at Delos that the morons still worked there, and then all was explained. Nice to see Simon Quarterman again, if only for one episode.

I hope Maeve finds a third way, I'm not rooting for Dolores or Seurac.

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That Game of Thrones cameo and dragon made me roll my eyes.  It's weird seeing HBO shows reference each other.

It's going to take some time for me to get used to the slow pace of things.  I guess the rest of the season will be 1 episode Dolores and 1 episode Maeve/Bernard.

It's creepy Delos copied all the employees to use in anyway they like.

 

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This episode was better then last week's. It was not perfect but better.

Maeve is still awesome. 

I am sorry Hector is gone I always liked him. Hopefully we can get him back and he will remember Maeve.

Figured Lee was dead.  No way he survived that. I wonder if he will pop up again as well?

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I did like this episode a lot more then the premiere. It was great to see Lee, Hector, and Stubbs again. I'm guessing Stubbs is the only one we'll see going forward, but I'd welcome any of them. And we got to see Felix and Sylvester! That Sylvester, still an asshole!

I love Maeve so much. Her story holds my interest so much more than Delores' at this point.

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I liked how the aspect ratio changed when Maeve realized she was in a simulation.  I think Lee should have frozen too since he was part of the simulation (whereas Maeve is running inside her own hardware).

I'm a bit bummed that Stubbs is a host.  S1 he was firmly human, to the point where he slept with a gun because he was afraid of the robots.  S2 was more ambiguous since he hinted at being a host but left it ambiguous enough that he could be either. 

 

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Enjoyed the episode. ADORE Maeve. I really hope we see Hector again. I love this is clearly building up to Dolores vs. Maeve and I think that Bernard is going to wind up being some kind of mediator or perhaps even instigator in the end.

I admit, I smiled when I saw "Drogon" in the medieval world section. And I knew that I recognized one of the techs but couldn't place him. Then I just happened to be watching the credits and saw David Benioff and D.B. Weiss and I was like 'Oh my goodness! I *knew* I knew who that was!' So I went back and watched it and laughed out loud when I realized that they were the techs literally taking care of "Drogon." (Yup, totally Drogon.)

I'm liking the season so far and like the previous two believe that a binge post-season will play out beautifully. I love the cerebral nature of Westworld.

Edited by driver18
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That was a fun play on the illusion of free will, where it looks like Maeve is a bad ass in and out of a simulation until the click of a button.  "The sooner you come to terms with the fact that you're nothing but a pawn in some sick bastard's game, the sooner we can get on with it.", gave me a good chuckle on the second viewing.  

1 hour ago, patty1h said:

Was that guy Lee real? - beats the hell outta me.  

He was a part of a simulation that I'm assuming Serac created to see what Maeve knows about Dolores.  

 

27 minutes ago, driver18 said:

(Yup, totally Drogon.)

Thank you!  I was hoping someone would know which dragon it was.  

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14 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

Why did WARWORLD switch to letterbox format in the middle of this episode? 

It shrinks down to letterbox as Maeve is realizing she's inside a simulation.  

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1 hour ago, peridot said:

That Game of Thrones cameo and dragon made me roll my eyes.  It's weird seeing HBO shows reference each other.

To be fair, given how it ended, the idea that Game of Thrones was just a Delos simulation that went completely off the rails makes more sense than what actually showed up on screen.

As to the episode itself, it seems the first episode was to set up “team Delores” (Delores, Caleb, fake-Charlotte, fake-Scottish Cleaner) while this one was to give Bernard support in the form of Stubbs and make Seurac into clearly “team villain” by deliberately invoking unfortunate implications (i.e. a white guy enslaves a black woman to do his bidding).

I am definitely liking the seeming single timeline things are seemingly running on. Certain narratives might be happening a little out of order, but they’re far enough apart geographically that it doesn’t matter and they are happening sequentially for each of the separate lines and will presumably be in sync when their paths finally cross.

 

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I didn't like this episode and the Maeve story is boring me this season. It is covering the same ground as the last two seasons. Maeve is sentient but trapped in the park, blah, blah, blah.  I also didn't appreciate that I was left hanging with the Dolores and Caleb story after only one episode.  Caleb is an intriguing new character and Dolores is finally rootable to me again and they are already side-lined?  Thanks, show, this is the way you are going to lose me as a viewer.

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2 hours ago, patty1h said:

 Was that guy Lee real?

no it was a simulation the whole time. She pretty much spelled that out.

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That robot that got shot up by a bunch of guards... what was he stealing?

Maeve

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"They're sitting around wondering when they'll be laid off"

- cut to Benioff and Weiss and Drogon. LOL.

Also LOL @ the guy playing the theme song on a lute. 

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1 hour ago, driver18 said:

So I went back and watched it and laughed out loud when I realized that they were the techs literally taking care of "Drogon." (Yup, totally Drogon.)

Getting laid off does not mean you get Delos property to sell on E-Bay to a collector in Costa Rica...

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So Maeve figured out the simulation, tried to make a run for it with her pearl, but she didn’t make it.

And that convinces Serac that she is going to save him and his world?

Or that she’d be on his side?  He anticipated that Maeve might try to kill him so he had the pause switch handy.

Why not make a pause switch for Dolores if he’s so threatened?

Or failing that his security forces badly wounded Dolores.  Just throw more guns and personnel at it.  There are probably robotic weapons he could use but Dolores would just hack them just like that right?

 

In any event they just want to set up the Dolores vs. Maeve showdown.  And Nolan and Joy must have wanted to film a Nazi era period piece in Europe.

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7 minutes ago, scrb said:

So Maeve figured out the simulation, tried to make a run for it with her pearl, but she didn’t make it.

And that convinces Serac that she is going to save him and his world?

Or that she’d be on his side?  He anticipated that Maeve might try to kill him so he had the pause switch handy.

Why not make a pause switch for Dolores if he’s so threatened?

Or failing that his security forces badly wounded Dolores.  Just throw more guns and personnel at it.  There are probably robotic weapons he could use but Dolores would just hack them just like that right?

 

In any event they just want to set up the Dolores vs. Maeve showdown.  And Nolan and Joy must have wanted to film a Nazi era period piece in Europe.

That's not exactly what happened. Serac initially thought that Maeve was the one after his big pearl in the real world. Keep in mind that he probably had no idea that Delores was out and about based on how she managed to get out of the park.

Bernard killed her, regretted it, decided to make a copy of Charlotte Hale and put Delores's pearl into that body.

Maeve managed to control one of the bots from inside the simulation - that bot then grabbed her pearl and killed a bunch of Serac's men. So Maeve did make it, that was her ticket to the real world. That made Serac realize that he had an unknown player that he hadn't accounted for and that Maeve was the one who was able to rewrite her own code and control other hosts. I would imagine he's hoping that she'll be able to use that power to control Delores. 

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18 minutes ago, scrb said:

Why not make a pause switch for Dolores if he’s so threatened?

cause he doesn't have any control over Delores. She's running free.

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31 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

That's not exactly what happened. Serac initially thought that Maeve was the one after his big pearl in the real world. Keep in mind that he probably had no idea that Delores was out and about based on how she managed to get out of the park.

Bernard killed her, regretted it, decided to make a copy of Charlotte Hale and put Delores's pearl into that body.

Maeve managed to control one of the bots from inside the simulation - that bot then grabbed her pearl and killed a bunch of Serac's men. So Maeve did make it, that was her ticket to the real world. That made Serac realize that he had an unknown player that he hadn't accounted for and that Maeve was the one who was able to rewrite her own code and control other hosts. I would imagine he's hoping that she'll be able to use that power to control Delores. 

This seems like a major plot hole to me.  Although the massacre inside Westworld is common knowledge, how would anyone know that a host made it to the outside world?  AFAIK, Bernard, who is taking the heat for the killings, is still thought to be human.  Delores may be making a "name" for herself on the outside, but really, if she had kept a low profile (and had no agenda) no one would know about her.  As for Maeve, the viewers know she's a badass, but how would anyone else?  We last saw her dead on a beach and presumably, the only humans who know her capabilities are Felix and Sylvester, and if that last scene on the beach is anything to go by, they're not telling anyone.  

That being said, I enjoyed this episode much more than last week. 

Edited by Quilt Fairy
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I remember hearing that there was suppose to be cameos from the "Game of Thrones guys" a.k.a. David Benioff and D.B. Weiss.  I wonder when they shot this, because it certainly had a sense that they knew many weren't going to be happy with how that show ended, so they were poking fun over them "butchering" Drogon (and possibly sending his parts to Jurassic Park?)

Since Maeve is my favorite, I'm glad to see her take front and center, and Thandie Newton crushed it as always (and that white dress!)  The Simulation Sizemore was fun as well, but I guess the big reveal is this Serac character played by Vincent Cassel, who is actually the architect of the device Dolores wants to use to destroy/enslave the human race, and wants Maeve to take out Dolores for him.  Of course, since their conversation ended with her trying to stab him and him revealing he has installed some kind of pause switch in her, their alliance is certainly going to be a shaky one if it comes to fruition!

Bernard goes to Westworld and has no luck finding Maeve, naturally, but does walk away with an Ashley Stubbs!

Looks like Hector won't be a regular this season.

I wonder when we're going to see William/Ed Harris.

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The week on "If I Had a Rowhammer".

I think Maeve is now inside Rehoboam.

 

3 hours ago, peridot said:

It's creepy Delos copied all the employees to use in anyway they like.

They didn't read their employee agreements all the way through before signing them.

 

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Well, that was more like it. Amazing the difference it makes when I actually give a shit about the characters involved. 

Not too impressed by Bernard re-programming Ashley's core drive without asking given his own history of being controlled, but they seem like they could bounce off each other as a duo really well.

Also delighted to see my favourite duo Maeve and Lee reunited (...sort of) given they continue to have some tremendous screwball chemistry.

That secret lab of Serac's is a ticking time-bomb with all those host pearls - Dolores could create a mini army if she finds out about it. 

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4 minutes ago, Dame sans merci said:

Well, that was more like it. Amazing the difference it makes when I actually give a shit about the characters involved. 

Not too impressed by Bernard re-programming Ashley's core drive without asking given his own history of being controlled, but they seem like they could bounce off each other as a duo really well.

Also delighted to see my favourite duo Maeve and Lee reunited (...sort of) given they continue to have some tremendous screwball chemistry.

That secret lab of Serac's is a ticking time-bomb with all those host pearls - Dolores could create a mini army if she finds out about it. 

Yeah serac is playing with fire there... I winder just how much control he has over maeve... I doubt once she's out and about in the real world she'll want to eradicate them wholesale.. But I don't see her working with serac long term... Looking fwd to Stubs & Lowe... Feels like a buddy movie... 

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I enjoyed Maeve's interactions with Lee Sizemore 2.0 so I'm a little sad he's gone because I loved watching her sass him.

I hope we see Hector again. Maeve's disappointment when he called her Isabella was palpable.

Aww, it was sweet when Bernard gave Stubbs a new core directive and Stubbs said, "If you wanted my help, you could have just asked for it."

 

9 hours ago, patty1h said:

Was that guy Lee real?

 

7 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

no it was a simulation the whole time. She pretty much spelled that out.

Not only did Maeve come right out and tell Lee he wasn't real but they showed him glitching.

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58 minutes ago, paigow said:

Serac must have a warehouse full of host bodies because he has a lot more than 5 orbs...

My hunch is that the innards of Rehehoam (not the sleek casing with the decorative lights) are probably built from whole racks of those pearls and the secret of the system is it’s already using its data collection to build/model a virtual “perfect world” simulation to make its predictions.

The drunken fool is going to end up being half right in that there is a world simulation running with him in it... but rather than that being the reality everyone’s in the system is working through its algorithms everyone is following to try and make the real world match the simulation.

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10 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

As for Maeve, the viewers know she's a badass, but how would anyone else?  We last saw her dead on a beach and presumably, the only humans who know her capabilities are Felix and Sylvester, and if that last scene on the beach is anything to go by, they're not telling anyone.  

The people who put Maeve's code into Clementine know what Maeve can do. The Delos team who shot Maeve at the Forge know that she was able to temporarily override the rage worm they put into Clementine. The scene with Felix and Sylvester implies that only a handful of people know about Maeve, but there is actually a decent bit of time between the Forge and when Bernard replaces Hale with Halores. During that period, I'm sure Hale was sending reports to the Delos board. Other the Man in Black/William, no one else at Delos knows that Delores has been off script for awhile. I suspect they're attributing it all to Ford, Bernard, and Maeve.

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3 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

My hunch is that the innards of Rehehoam (not the sleek casing with the decorative lights) are probably built from whole racks of those pearls and the secret of the system is it’s already using its data collection to build/model a virtual “perfect world” simulation to make its predictions.

Then Maeve is interacting with a fake Serac in a higher level Matrix? Or he has already released a bunch of other hosts into the real world and he thought Maeve had hacked them?

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Is this Serac guy someone I'm supposed to know? I don't remember ever seeing him or hearing about him before.

I did enjoy this episode more than last week's, but when you get right down to it, the bulk of it was wasted time spent in a simulation. And I don't like the idea of adding "possibly a simulation" into the mix of what is already a very confusing show. Between the various time jumps and the possibilities of people being robots now we have to wonder if some or all of this is just a simulation. This is approaching Lost-levels of layering confusion on top of confusion.

When Maeve woke up at the end I just figured she was in another simulation, since Bernard and Stubbs found her robot body in the robot warehouse minus half her skull. So is this another simulation or did they make her a new body?

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Didn't they say last week that Liam's father invented the System? This guy Seurac doesn't seem to be Liam's father, especially since Liam is a "Jr."

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I liked the first episode, but not this one, and it seemed to have JJ Abrams' fingerprints all over it. A bunch of stuff happens which is confusing for no other reason than to make the audience wonder what's going on, and then meaningless *reveals* happen. Wink-wink references. Mysterious new characters who promise answers but ultimately tell us nothing we don't already know. Going back to an island. Looking for someone, thinking we found them except it's not really them so we're going to keep looking.

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2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Is this Serac guy someone I'm supposed to know? I don't remember ever seeing him or hearing about him before.

 

2 hours ago, Starchild said:

Didn't they say last week that Liam's father invented the System? This guy Seurac doesn't seem to be Liam's father, especially since Liam is a "Jr."

Liam's father invented Insight and Rehoboam with a mystery man, but his father is dead. Liam is nominally in charge. Rehoboam and the mystery man make all the decisions. Delores was trying to get Liam to spill the beans on the mystery man when Tommy Flanagan's character burst in and tasered Delores. The show seems to be hinting that Serac is the mystery man.

Serac tells Maeve that he used to be able to see the future, presumably through Rehoboam, because humans are simple, have only 140 lines of code, and have a hard time breaking their loops. Serac assumed the massacre at Westworld was the cause of the disruptions to Rehoboam's predictions. However, it is Delores, her murders, and whoever else she's placed inside Hale and Tommy Flanagan's character. Rehoboam can't predict them.

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

When Maeve woke up at the end I just figured she was in another simulation, since Bernard and Stubbs found her robot body in the robot warehouse minus half her skull. So is this another simulation or did they make her a new body?

Serac has been running Maeve through simulations to figure out what else happened at Westworld because he has incomplete data. He's incorrectly assumed Maeve was the cause of most of the glitching. He's trying to figure out what the Forge is and where it went, but Serac doesn't know that a number of hosts were acting completely independent of each other and sometimes at cross purposes.  It's only because Delores continues to cause disruptions to Rehoboam's predictions while Maeve is in the simulation that Serac knows to request Maeve's assistance in the real world. Serac built Maeve's new body.

Edited by HunterHunted
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I was hoping Maeve would crash the simulation using the Captain Kirk / Harry Mudd paradox from TOS Episode "I, Mudd"

Kirk: Norman, everything Harry Mudd says is a lie.

Mudd: Listen carefully Norman... I am lying

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I’ll admit I was confused by most of it. I agree with others that say I think just like last season that they over complicate the story because they can, ugh.

On a shallow note: does Thandie Newton never age, I mean c’mon, I remember her from ER over 20 years ago and she hasn’t aged a day, and the white dress, I mean just stunning! Maybe she really is a robot. Hahahahaha 

 

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1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

Liam's father invented Insight and Rehoboam with a mystery man, but his father is dead. Liam is nominally in charge. Rehoboam and the mystery man make all the decisions. Delores was trying to get Liam to spill the beans on the mystery man when Tommy Flanagan's character burst in and tasered Delores. The show seems to be hinting that Serac is the mystery man.

 

The name Liam could be a diminutive of William.

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34 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

The name Liam could be a diminutive of William.

It could be. Of course this means that William/the Man in Black will have been involved in the death of every last person from the Delos family: Delos Sr., Logan who William drove batty, Juliet his wife, and his daughter, Emily, who he murdered.

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51 minutes ago, Starchild said:

Didn't they say last week that Liam's father invented the System? This guy Seurac doesn't seem to be Liam's father, especially since Liam is a "Jr."

It could be that Seurac is lying about being the creator of the system. Or it could be that Seurac is lying about his actual name.

Or it could be like Westworld itself where there were multiple creators (Arnold and Ford) and one ended up getting more public acknowledgment than the other. Or it could be that Seurac was the creator and Liam Sr. was the money man behind it.

We'll see.

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7 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

It could be that Seurac is lying about being the creator of the system. Or it could be that Seurac is lying about his actual name

Delores got Seurac's name out of Tommy Flanagan's character last episode. He (Seurac) controls the system.

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Serac. Sounds like Sarek...and backwards spells CARES

Watched too much Blindspot...

Engerraund = Enraged + Run

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2 hours ago, paigow said:

I was hoping Maeve would crash the simulation using the Captain Kirk / Harry Mudd paradox from TOS Episode "I, Mudd"

Kirk: Norman, everything Harry Mudd says is a lie.

Mudd: Listen carefully Norman... I am lying

I think they were going for an homage to another Star Trek episode when the computer was possessed (just roll with it) and Kirk asked it to compute pi to the final digit just to tie up the processing power.

 

I wish they'd actually just copied that instead of trying to be clever, because "what is the square root of -1?" is a relatively easily answered question.

Edited by mac123x
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At this point, I have not seen any link between Delos, which kept its data and its patents vigorously secret, and this new company Incite.  How exactly did Seurac build a body for Maeve?  It appears he stole her pearl from the Delos storage room, but exactly how did he do that?  And what are the other pearls he appears to be keeping?  Delores only got out 5. 

Color me confused. 

I also have no idea where Maeve intended that robot to take her pearl considering she had no clue where she was.

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2 hours ago, mac123x said:

I wish they'd actually just copied that instead of trying to be clever, because "what is the square root of -1?" is a relatively easily answered question.

And yet, it is something that would probably trip up the average person who is a few years removed from taking algebra and doesn't actively use it on a regular basis. 

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On 3/22/2020 at 9:41 PM, mac123x said:

I liked how the aspect ratio changed when Maeve realized she was in a simulation.  I think Lee should have frozen too since he was part of the simulation (whereas Maeve is running inside her own hardware).

I'm a bit bummed that Stubbs is a host.  S1 he was firmly human, to the point where he slept with a gun because he was afraid of the robots.  S2 was more ambiguous since he hinted at being a host but left it ambiguous enough that he could be either. 

 

I also said he should have frozen and my only fanwank here is that he was substantially more developed than the NPCs. The processing power would have prioritized him. Alternatively, he has his own globe and therefore has essentially some independent processing/code. That would leave the door open on him coming back too.

So many people have theorized that Stubbs was a robot. I really wish there was less speculation on stuff like that.

22 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

This seems like a major plot hole to me.  Although the massacre inside Westworld is common knowledge, how would anyone know that a host made it to the outside world?  AFAIK, Bernard, who is taking the heat for the killings, is still thought to be human.  Delores may be making a "name" for herself on the outside, but really, if she had kept a low profile (and had no agenda) no one would know about her.  As for Maeve, the viewers know she's a badass, but how would anyone else?  We last saw her dead on a beach and presumably, the only humans who know her capabilities are Felix and Sylvester, and if that last scene on the beach is anything to go by, they're not telling anyone.  

That being said, I enjoyed this episode much more than last week. 

I thought it was that he knew because the computer identified anomalies that indicated her presence. She disrupted the system.

15 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

I hope we see Hector again. Maeve's disappointment when he called her Isabella was palpable.

Aww, it was sweet when Bernard gave Stubbs a new core directive and Stubbs said, "If you wanted my help, you could have just asked for it."

 

Aww on both of these. I have face blindness and struggled to recognize Hector even though I knew it was him from context. 

7 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

 

Liam's father invented Insight and Rehoboam with a mystery man, but his father is dead. Liam is nominally in charge. Rehoboam and the mystery man make all the decisions. Delores was trying to get Liam to spill the beans on the mystery man when Tommy Flanagan's character burst in and tasered Delores. The show seems to be hinting that Serac is the mystery man.

Serac tells Maeve that he used to be able to see the future, presumably through Rehoboam, because humans are simple, have only 140 lines of code, and have a hard time breaking their loops. Serac assumed the massacre at Westworld was the cause of the disruptions to Rehoboam's predictions. However, it is Delores, her murders, and whoever else she's placed inside Hale and Tommy Flanagan's character. Rehoboam can't predict them.

Serac has been running Maeve through simulations to figure out what else happened at Westworld because he has incomplete data. He's incorrectly assumed Maeve was the cause of most of the glitching. He's trying to figure out what the Forge is and where it went, but Serac doesn't know that a number of hosts were acting completely independent of each other and sometimes at cross purposes.  It's only because Delores continues to cause disruptions to Rehoboam's predictions while Maeve is in the simulation that Serac knows to request Maeve's assistance in the real world. Serac built Maeve's new body.

I agree. He confirmed she didn't have the answers regarding the forge which gave him several critical pieces of information including Delores's role in everything. He did have a lot of information (to rebuild Sizemore) but he made some incorrect assumptions.

 

I loved this episode. I feel like I am always an outlier, but I love this show and particularly Maeve. I enjoyed the simulation twist and some of the other reveals. I enjoyed Drogon and would argue that if this is our world, a ton of people would 100% be ready for GOTworld.

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8 hours ago, mac123x said:

I think they were going for an homage to another Star Trek episode when the computer was possessed (just roll with it) and Kirk asked it to compute pi to the final digit just to tie up the processing power.

Getting stuck in a simulation is also the plot of several Star Trek episodes. Maeve even called it a "charade", one of Picard's favorite words. 

 

 

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16 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I did enjoy this episode more than last week's, but when you get right down to it, the bulk of it was wasted time spent in a simulation. And I don't like the idea of adding "possibly a simulation" into the mix of what is already a very confusing show. Between the various time jumps and the possibilities of people being robots now we have to wonder if some or all of this is just a simulation. This is approaching Lost-levels of layering confusion on top of confusion.

Totally agree. I always enjoy it when westworld pulls the rug under my feet so this was no exception, but the entire ep could be shortened to 'Maeve wakes up in Serac's house and they have a 5 minute conversation'. A filler episode in an 8 episodes season is concerning.

The only way I could see this episode being relevant is that breaking of the letterbox rule, which shows us that scenes can be in simulation even if they're in a normal frame. And I like that idea even less.

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Loved this episode and anything with Maeve.  It felt like old school Westworld, but while exploring War World with Maeve, Hector, and Lee would be fun, it would feel like something we've already done.  I'm completely confused about what's happening in the "real" world though.  (Assuming this is the "real" world and not just another simulation.  Don't do that, writers!)  

GoTWorld would allow a few wrongs to be righted.

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