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Celebrating 1,000 NCIS-franchise episodes

Norman: Chinless Future Psychopath

Tara Ariano

By Tara Ariano
in Bates Motel [V]

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Portia

Portia

I feel cheated that Norman didn't sing "Sandman" in the season premiere. Has anyone else seen that promo on Hulu? I've seen it about twenty times, and Norman's voice is really nice.

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Portia

Portia

(edited)

Gotta say, I think Freddie Highmore is a pretty good actor. I think his American accent is fine and his Tony Perkins impression is spot-on.

Edited by Portia
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solotrek

solotrek

I've been a fan of Freddie since Finding Neverland from way back in the day. Phenomenal kid actor then, still a great actor now. If I hadn't known he was a British actor, I don't think I'd really hear any of his slip ups.

It's kind of sad knowing that had Norma just taken him to a psychiatrist and explained his blackouts, not even discussing what he did to his father, Norman wouldn't have ended up how he did by Psycho.

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editorgrrl

editorgrrl

When Season 1 ended with [Norman] running in the rain, disheveled and confused after viewers last saw him at Ms. Watson who was acting pretty inappropriately with him, most figured that either he did kill her and didn't remember like his dad or he didn't but it would definitely look like he did since he'd been at her place. And most of Season 2 revolved around the mystery which ultimately culminated in his having killed her while in a catatonic state while she was inappropriately having sex with him. I haven't gotten the impression the writers mean for viewers to doubt or question any of that.

 

Whoa, I really need to go back and watch that episode again, because that is not how I remember it at all. I thought Miss Watson went to change, and the door wasn't as closed as she apparently thought it was. Norman peeped her—exactly the same way he later peeped the hooker in the shower in season 3, episode 1. Then Miss Watson was dead.

 

This entire time, I thought all the "Ms. Watson was acting pretty inappropriately" stuff was 100% in Norman's head—a "dialogue" between Norman's two dissociative personalities (mother and son). In later episodes, Norman even convinces himself that Norma, not he, killed Miss Watson—that's how he passed the lie detector test.

 

To me, Miss Watson was no more complicit than the hooker in the shower. Or Janet Leigh's character in Psycho.

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JenE4

JenE4

Whoa, I really need to go back and watch that episode again, because that is not how I remember it at all. I thought Miss Watson went to change, and the door wasn't as closed as she apparently thought it was. Norman peeped her—exactly the same way he later peeped the hooker in the shower in season 3, episode 1. Then Miss Watson was dead.

This entire time, I thought all the "Ms. Watson was acting pretty inappropriately" stuff was 100% in Norman's head—a "dialogue" between Norman's two dissociative personalities (mother and son). In later episodes, Norman even convinces himself that Norma, not he, killed Miss Watson—that's how he passed the lie detector test.

To me, Miss Watson was no more complicit than the hooker in the shower. Or Janet Leigh's character in Psycho.

That scene was (purposefully) confusing. However, Norman's semen was found in Ms. Watson, which is why he had to take the lie detector test in the first place.

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JenE4

JenE4

The semen means Norman & Miss Watson had sex. It doesn't mean it was consensual. For all we know, Norman killed Miss Watson, then had sex with her corpse.

 

Oh, uh, yikes! I hadn't thought of that possibility. I hope the show doesn't go there. Yes, Norman is getting increasingly psychotic to the extent that he'll eventually (spoiler alert on a 55-year-old movie!)

hold onto his mother's corpse.

So I can see why inappropriate actions with a corpse now is certainly in the realm of possibilities. But I almost think that's too much too soon in the development of his psychosis. But, I'm saying this for purely selfish reasons as a fan of this show. Right now, I can still see the good and innocence in Norman when he's not having one of his spells. I think if they went that far, ugh, I'd have a hard time getting past it. But, kudos on the theory. Definitely a possibility!

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JenE4

JenE4

That would very much be a nod at Ed Gein, upon whom the character of Norman Bates is based.

I never knew that the character was based on a true story! I'll have to work up the nerve to Google him.

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truthaboutluv

truthaboutluv

(edited)
Whoa, I really need to go back and watch that episode again, because that is not how I remember it at all. I thought Miss Watson went to change, and the door wasn't as closed as she apparently thought it was. Norman peeped her—exactly the same way he later peeped the hooker in the shower in season 3, episode 1. Then Miss Watson was dead.

 

 

I re-watched the episode and I will concede that the scenes may certainly be up for interpretation but the way I saw it, I do still think Ms. Watson was inappropriate with Norman. There is clearly, in my opinion an uncomfortable, inappropriate tension between them when she's cleaning his eye, which by the way, in my opinion there were already lines being crossed at that point, with a teacher having a student in her house, sitting between his legs, cleaning his eye.

 

Maybe innocent yes, but something that would be construed as inappropriate by others. And she seemed to know that because she then says to Norman that he probably shouldn't tell anyone he came to her house. Then she says she is going to change, while tenderly stroking Norman's hair away from his forehead and his cheek. And then there was the undressing.

 

Ms. Watson actually never closes the door at all. I didn't see it as she closed it part-way and maybe didn't realize it wasn't entirely closed. She just walks into her room with the door wide open and proceeds to undress with a mirror strategically positioned in such a way that Norman could see her clearly. That is quite different from the hooker who was taking a shower with the blinds mostly closed but Norman saw a crack in it where he could still see her. 

 

But back to Ms. Watson - she had a 17 year old student in her house, late at night and proceeds to go undress, leaving her door wide open, knowing there is a full length mirror that if she stands right in front of, he could see everything and I'm supposed to believe it was all innocent? Yeah sorry, don't buy it. I think Norman's first visions of what happened, when he was trapped in the box, were memories of that night. When he took off, he blacked out about everything and so he not only forgot killing her but also having sex with her.

 

I'd also add, although I'd have to re-watch the season to remember the exact wording, but I remember either Ms. Watson's dad or Romero referencing "things in her past" or her being troubled (I'm actually sure it was her father now) that suggested she was clearly no saint and had some major skeletons in her closet. Again, I can see how some interpreted the situation entirely different but that's how I saw it. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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Timetoread

Timetoread

^^^^^^^^ That is what I saw too.  She was definitely trying to seduce him.

 

Watched it twice and she was all kinds of wrong.  That was a seduction.  She probably thought that she'd give this kid the thrill of his life and have all the power in the situation.  Sorry Ms. Watson, wrong kid.

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Timetoread

Timetoread

That would very much be a nod at Ed Gein, upon whom the character of Norman Bates is based.

 

 

Yep.  Eddie ONLY had sex with the dead, so Norman has at least one upped him in that regard.  Still Ed Gein was a grave robber who dismembered and skinned his corpses.  Donned their skins under the light of the moon.  And kept their parts as decorations in his home.  He was, however, a young man who loved his mother very much.  His brother Henry didn't fare so well though.  It really makes me worry about Dylan because I don't see him making it out of this alive.

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Spartan Girl

Spartan Girl

Boy this show has done a great job showing Norman's evolution to a psychopath.  But I don't think it can be largely blamed on Norma's refusal to come clean about his dad's death and get him professional help.  No, I think that goes deeper than that.

 

Norman was probably already damaged by witnessing his parents' abusive relationship.  To compensate for her abusive marriage, Norma was grooming Norman to be her protector and ultimate companion: someone that would love her and never leave her or hurt her the way she had been hurt before, instead of actually being a responsible parent and getting out of the marriage before she had the chance.  Norman would have greatly benefitted from having a decent father figure in his life, because it's obvious that Norma and her neediness and smothering wasn't healthy for him (or her).

 

Not to mention that every time Norman did take strides to have an independent life, something bad happened to Norma.  He snuck out to a party, and Norma got raped.  He had sex with Bradley, Norma got arrested.  And so on and so on.  Every time that happened, he felt guilty and the guilt just tied him stronger to her.

 

Norma is also the only woman in Norma's life that he feels didn't let him down.  Bradley used him, and so did Miss Watson.  The girl from season 2 (don't remember her name) didn't work out.  Emma is terminally ill and about to dump him for his brother (although he's not aware of that yet).  So we have abandonment issues on top of the Oedipus complex.

 

Put all those together and you have a disaster waiting to happen.

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Mick Lady

Mick Lady

 

  So we have abandonment issues on top of the Oedipus complex.

 

Put all those together and you have a disaster waiting to happen.

 

Oh God, this just got to me for some reason! Thank you, I needed a good laugh!!

 

I'll have to use this in conversation sometime very soon! It's priceless!

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Scififan92

Scififan92

Binge watching Bates Motel on Netflix. Currently on season 4 and this is what I realized...

Norman I think would have been fine had she caught it the moment he killed his father. Had she told him the truth and got him on medication and therapy, he probably would have been fine. Maybe he would have felt guilty for the rest of his life but it was an innocent murder that I think anyone would have done in a situation dealing with domestic abuse.

Her dishonesty, denial, overprotection, and controlling behaviour is what ultimately became her and his downfall. And another thing I think really made him subconsciously think that murder was ok is witnessing his mother stab that man who raped her in the beginning of the show and how she handled it.

It also started his obsession with thinking his mother is a murderer and actually is committing the murders to follow. 

She's not the worst parent in the world but she certainly would never get mother of the year in how she handled his illness. 

But she was ill herself and needed a lot of help as well. She may not have been as off as Norman or had his disorder but she did have a disorder of her own. 

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Stringey

Stringey

On 3/4/2014 at 4:13 PM, Portia said:

I feel cheated that Norman didn't sing "Sandman" in the season premiere. Has anyone else seen that promo on Hulu? I've seen it about twenty times, and Norman's voice is really nice.

Ok not really responding to the topic just wanted to say I am glad there is another forum for fans of this show since imdb.com will be no.mpte

I meant to say no more not no mpte. How did that happen lol.

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islandgal140

islandgal140

*Dead* at this thread title.

On 2/11/2017 at 3:15 AM, Scififan92 said:

Binge watching Bates Motel on Netflix. Currently on season 4 and this is what I realized...

Norman I think would have been fine had she caught it the moment he killed his father. Had she told him the truth and got him on medication and therapy, he probably would have been fine. Maybe he would have felt guilty for the rest of his life but it was an innocent murder that I think anyone would have done in a situation dealing with domestic abuse.

Her dishonesty, denial, overprotection, and controlling behaviour is what ultimately became her and his downfall. And another thing I think really made him subconsciously think that murder was ok is witnessing his mother stab that man who raped her in the beginning of the show and how she handled it.

It also started his obsession with thinking his mother is a murderer and actually is committing the murders to follow. 

She's not the worst parent in the world but she certainly would never get mother of the year in how she handled his illness. 

But she was ill herself and needed a lot of help as well. She may not have been as off as Norman or had his disorder but she did have a disorder of her own. 

That is the beauty of this show. Even though this can and will only end one way, can't help but wish for a different ending. That Norma could have seen the light and stop making everything about herself and her needs & Norman could have been saved from himself. But alas....

I loved in S4 when Norma got told by that female psychiatrist from County Hospital after Norman got put on a 5150 hold that she could be found negligent for not seeking help for Norman much sooner. That was absolute truth!! It is so frustrating to see Norma bury her hand in the sand and make excuses for him and to see Norman get failed at every turn. 

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smorbie

smorbie

On 3/17/2015 at 0:35 PM, turbogirlnyc said:

Thanks to the brilliant title of this thread, I could not stop staring at Norman's (non-existent) chin last night. Lol!

oh, come on!  He has a chin!  He's a cute little guy.

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truthaboutluv

truthaboutluv

Wasn't sure where to post this because it's not Bates Motel news but more Freddie Highmore news. His show, The Good Doctor was officially picked up by ABC for the upcoming fall season and the first teaser trailer was released. 

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