S12.E10: The Timeless Children (Part 2)

[supposebly]

Well, if the Master didn't make this all up, this doesn't bother me at all. I was much more annoyed with Steven Moffats making the Doctor living through thousands or millions of years in that maze to get to Gallifrey.

Overall, I found this season much better than season 11. I like the Doctor, I don't mind the companions but I think I could do with different ones. I prefer the show when it's more about the companions and less about the Doctor. That was something RTD did well. I still miss his kind of Doctor Who.

[Affogato]

On 3/12/2020 at 9:26 AM, Eulipian 5k said:

Thx. I was thrown off by the fact that the 10th burned Simm's Master when he died, and Cantor(?) showed up to burn the 11th when he was shot, they were the only dead T/Ls seen in Nu Who.

The Cyberium/Master must have a way to regenerate dead T/L flesh without getting the whole Time Lord back? (Same question as the AncientNewbie)

There must have been a way to get the regeneration energy out of the timeless child and into the proto-timelords. When he found out where the ability to regenerate originated The Master probably was able to also find or reproduce the original research. 
 

 I think The Master may have siphoned the energy and inserted it i to his cyberpeople in the same way the original timelords stole it from the Doctor. 

 

the fact that he used bits of timelords may have been more ironic than functional. 

[WatchrTina]

On 3/1/2020 at 8:56 PM, DanaK said:

I'm not sure I understand where the 2(?) other Tardises came from. Were they just other Time Lords' machines sitting around on Gallifrey? I guess the Doctor reunited with her Tardis on that planet they originally arrived on?

Well the origin story for the TARDIS we've come to know and love was revealed in a past season of New Who.  (Basically, the Original Doctor stole it and apparently an incarnation of Clara was there to point him to a particularly good one.)  So based on that, there does seem to be a TARDIS parking lot on Galifrey, which makes it (just barely) plausible that the Doctor could steal two in this episode -- the one that turned into a house when it returned the "Fam" to  earth and the one she parked and disguised as a tree.  

[Wild-ass speculation ahead -- I'll bet Captain Jack Harkness would like a TARDIS.  Do you think The Doctor will give him the one that turned into a house (after she breaks out of that unbreakable prison?)  Or alternatively -- maybe Jack comes to earth to get the spare TARDIS and gathers up the "Fam" in order to lead them on a mission to break The Doctor out of prison.]

I watched the last three episodes in a row and I do recommend that but even with that concentrated viewing I'm still TOTALLY confused about the foundling child who later survived a fall off a cliff (withOUT changing appearance so that didn't seem to be a regeneration).  He had joined the Garda but upon retirement (when he was old) his memories were wiped by someone (his adopted father?) whose appearance had NOT changed in all that time.  I mean HOW did that plot line have anything to do with the lone Cyberman? I had expected the unbreakable kid who joined the Guarda to end up becoming the lone Cyberman but, no.  So . . . still totally confused about what that was all about.

I knew Barristan Selmy was going to end up saving the day.  Once a BAMF, always a BAMF.

Edited March 16, 2020 by WatchrTina

[DanaK]

19 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

I watched the last three episodes in a row and I do recommend that but even with that concentrated viewing I'm still TOTALLY confused about the foundling child who later survived a fall off a cliff (withOUT changing appearance so that didn't seem to be a regeneration).  He had joined the Garda but upon retirement (when he was old) his memories were wiped by someone (his adopted father?) whose appearance had NOT changed in all that time.  I mean HOW did that plot line have anything to do with the lone Cyberman? I had expected the unbreakable kid who joined the Guarda to end up becoming the lone Cyberman but, no.  So . . . still totally confused about what that was all about.

As several posters have said, the story of Brenden was an allegory or a cover story for what happened to the Timeless Child (and therefore the Doctor). It had no relationship to the Lone Cyberman. The Master theorized that it was possibly planted by Tecteun, the Timeless Child’s (and by extension, the Doctor’s) adoptive mother, possibly as clues to the Doctor’s real history

[John Potts]

On ‎3‎/‎16‎/‎2020 at 1:16 AM, WatchrTina said:

I watched the last three episodes in a row and I do recommend that but even with that concentrated viewing I'm still TOTALLY confused about the foundling child who later survived a fall off a cliff

Whether it was true or not (and maybe he/she really is from Earth?), Time Lords can clearly survive a large amount of damage and live. Jodie fell from a great height and landed in/on a train (as did David Tennant, though he did end up regenerating) and survived. So it's possible for him/her to fall a long way and not have to Regenerate. OTOH, Tom Baker (Four) fell from the relatively short distance of around 100 feet (from the Jodrell Bank telescope) and did have to Regenerate. So it might have been possible to fall that distance and remain in the same body (it would entirely depend on the writer!).

Edited March 17, 2020 by John Potts

[DanaK]

One could theorize Jodie’s Doctor probably survived the fall from space to the train because she was still regenerating. Not sure about Tennant/10’s fall. With Baker, he wasn’t regenerating, so it was fatal. But as said, it likely depends on the writer

[DoctorAtomic]

Yeah like Ten getting his hands cut off and growing back. I can live with that. You're not having a newly regenerated Doctor fall out of the sky and regenerate again. 

Plus the TARDIS threw her out for her safety so she knew it would be ok.

[DanaK]

58 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Yeah like Ten getting his hands cut off and growing back. I can live with that.

Ten actually said he can regrow a body part if it’s within a 16 (or thereabouts) hour window after regeneration

Edited March 17, 2020 by DanaK

[DanaK]

On 3/9/2020 at 4:35 PM, DanaK said:

Ratings catch up:

Overnights: 3.70 million viewers; I think it was 7th for the night. AI: 82

7 days: 4.69 million viewers. Rank: 30th for the week

28-day: 5.172 million viewers

[Tyro49]

Still trying to wrap my head around this.

Comments:

This Master is sick. Not just delightfully evil, but sick.

Exactly how did the Master destroy Gallifrey? And prevent everyone from immediately regenerating?

So the Time Lords origin was different than they'd all been taught; what's the big deal? (Except annoyance at being lied to.)

They'll all be back, you know. The Master had the cerebrum(sp?) inside him (non-organic), the Death thingy had been reduced in size (must have had some effect). All the dead Time Lord bodies - must be some workaround to that.

Oh yes, the Lone Cyberman was not the character we saw in Ireland; so we still don't know his origin.

Actually, we don't know the Doctor's real origin it seems; fell through a portal from another universe? What happened to him/her and or his/her original people?

Spare Tardis conveniently left behind.

Just how did the Judoon beam into the Tardis? And Daleks next (I hope we do actually get to see it - has it been filmed already, as nothing is being filmed at the moment.)

[DanaK]

1 hour ago, Tyro49 said:

Just how did the Judoon beam into the Tardis? And Daleks next (I hope we do actually get to see it - has it been filmed already, as nothing is being filmed at the moment.)

It was indeed filmed as part of Series 12, at the end of filming in Nov or thereabouts. I haven't heard whether all the post-production work has been done

As for the Time Lord origin lie and why the big deal, the Master couldn't stand that the Doctor was the origin of his regeneration power and whatever came with it. Seems he's always in competition with the Doctor. For the Doctor of course, she was a lab rat and used for her regeneration power, which was given to a certain segment of the population that became the Time Lords. She has more reason to be pissed than the Master, but the Master is a psycho so he felt really hurt

[benteen]

I really didn't like the unoriginal Timeless Child storyline, the retconning of The Doctor's backstory (now The First Doctor is an unknown incarnation of The Timeless Child). and how the Lone Cyberman, despite being the best villain they had this season (yes, that includes the new Master who is very good), was just tossed aside by The Doctor.

This was a good episode for the most part (and a great season) but these things really undermined the episode and didn't allow the season to stick the landing.

Gallifrey should have stayed gone.  Moffat really did a number on it when he resurrected it for the 50th anniversary.

I like Jodie Whittaker a lot as I liked Peter Capaldi but this is the second Doctor in a row that I just can't connect with.  To me, it still feels like she hasn't formed her own personality and is just taking the greatest hits from the 10th and 11th Doctors.  13's pacifism is annoying even by The Doctor's standards and she seems to display the same passiveness (I would say weakness) that the 5th Doctor displayed when it came to doing what needed to be done (ie getting rid of The Master).  Jo Martin received much better writing for her Doctor and her Doctor is much more interesting character.

Edited November 12, 2020 by benteen