S03.E08: The Moonshot

[Kfir]

2 hours ago, izabella said:

Trying to understand the discomfort...you say that it would be wrong if a man were pursuing an autistic woman.  Is that because you think he would be taking advantage of someone who is unable to choose for themselves?  Do you think Carly is taking advantage of Shaun?  Is it because he is autistic that you think he (or an autistic woman) can't/is unable/is vulnerable to other people to make their own choices about sex?

I'm a little uncomfortable with it, too, but I can't put my finger on why.

I think society in general would have a huge problem with a man pursuing an autistic woman as shown in here. 

For me there's a few things going on here, 

1/ The reality is that even though Shaun may be a genius in the medical field, socially he is lacking the skills and basic understanding. 

2/ His autism means that closeness, both physical and emotional can be difficult for him. He expressed that he is uncomfortable with sex. Now, we have it drummed into us that when someone isn't keen on sex than it's time to stop. Again, if Shaun was a Shauna and the man tried other tact/kept pressing than there would be serious repercussions. 

3/ I think Carly should just give up. I believe she is creepy for even wanting a relationship with him. I think for Shaun all of this is like some kind of experiment/game. He is like a child that has been thrown into the adult world. 

Can he choose for himself? I don't believe so. What if he got her pregnant? Or she tricks him and gets pregnant? Is he capable of being a father, is it fair he be forced to pay child support?

The whole concept of this show is all well and good in fantasy land but in the real world it's just not that simple. 

Same with the story line about the Doctor flashing her breasts at the underage patient as well as trying to get him into a strip club. 

[possibilities]

Unless you have actual knowledge and understanding of autism, most of the time, opinions are unfounded and coming only from projections and prejudices. It's really hard to avoid doing that, but to me it seems like an important exercise.

kfir, you seem to be confusing autism with childhood. They are not the same at all. I hope you will do some self-education, instead of relying on misconceptions and ideas that are insulting and harmful to a large population of autistic people.

Shaun is just a tv character, and the writing is imperfect. But there are so many things you're saying about autistic people that are just flat out incorrect here, it's not really grounded in reality of what the show has shown or the reality of real autistic people.

I see Carly being respectful, and meeting Shaun where he is. You see Carly pressuring him. If the genders were reversed, I don't think that would change anything. If "Shawna" asked "Carl" out, and they went on months of dates, and talked about all kinds of things, learning what each valued in life and in relationships, and then Shawna said she wanted to have sex but it was challenging, and Carl educated himself about how that is for autistic people, and they discussed the research on what helps, and decided to try it, and then Shawna had a meltdown (we've seen Shaun have many meltdowns in many contexts, and it often is scary to people the first time, but then they learn how to handle it-- like how Park got rid of the buzzing light during the quarantine), and then came back and explained herself and said she really did want to do this, and she looked at the research again and concluded that really wants to try again... how is any of that Carl taking advantage of Shawna?

I think it's a story about people overcoming obstacles together.

One way to look at it is if you have a woman who was sexually abused as a child. She might be freaked out and have a panic attack when trying to have sex as an adult. Should her partner just dump her, and declare that clearly she's not capable and it's wrong to get involved with her, even if she says otherwise? Is that how you respect someone? Of course, you don't have to be with someone if you don't want to be with them. But it's not wrong to stay and try to work it out, even if there are challenges along the way.

I think that sometimes the mannerisms of Shaun are being interpreted as childish but they are not. It's like how people will think someone who has a speech impediment is stupid, when they might be very intelligent, but have a disability that affects their diction and tone of voice. (I had a friend who was a freaking genius but most people would take one look at her and decide she was an idiot because she drooled and had a speech-related disability. Once you learned how to understand her speech, what she had to say was well worth it, but many people could not get over their gut feeling that she must not have anything to say, so they didn't try).

I still think that if the show would give us more scenes of Shaun and Carly interacting in the ways that DO work, it wouldn't feel so daunting to imagine why/how they are/could be/should be trying in the areas that are hard. I really liked when (a few episodes ago), Carly told Shaun she hates small talk and really enjoyed the serious topics he wanted to use for ice breakers in their first few dates. We need more of that. Right now, it IS hard to see why they are together and how it isn't a big mistake, because all they show us are the ways they struggle, and not the ways they are compatible.

I don't particularly have an idea that they should be together forever. But lots of people in life and in fiction have more than one relationship, and it's not a sign they shouldn't have been there. Sometimes things don't work out, or they're good for a while and then they've run their course.

In answer to the question upthread about whether Shaun has been shown interacting with other people with autism: yes, a few times. But it's always just been patients who show up at the hospital, and never anyone he seeks out. He's avoided any kind of community with others with autism, which I think is a big mistake both for the character and for the show.

Edited November 25, 2019 by possibilities

[bros402]

10 hours ago, Emma9 said:

Carly is still Astrid from Fringe to me, which helps a bit - I like seeing the actress get work, plus a lot of her character there was rolling with Walter's quirks, so mostly seeing her as that same character gives me a reason she'd fit with Shaun.

Yes, she is still Astro to me.

35 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Unless you have actual knowledge and understanding of autism, most of the time, opinions are unfounded and coming only from projections and prejudices. It's really hard to avoid doing that, but to me it seems like an important exercise.

kfir, you seem to be confusing autism with childhood. They are not the same at all. I hope you will do some self-education, instead of relying on misconceptions and ideas that are insulting and harmful to a large population of autistic people.

Shaun is just a tv character, and the writing is imperfect. But there are so many things you're saying about autistic people that are just flat out incorrect here, it's not really grounded in reality of what the show has shown or the reality of real autistic people.

I see Carly being respectful, and meeting Shaun where he is. You see Carly pressuring him. If the genders were reversed, I don't think that would change anything. If "Shawna" asked "Carl" out, and they went on months of dates, and talked about all kinds of things, learning what each valued in life and in relationships, and then Shawna said she wanted to have sex but it was challenging, and Carl educated himself about how that is for autistic people, and they discussed the research on what helps, and decided to try it, and then Shawna had a meltdown (we've seen Shaun have many meltdowns in many contexts, and it often is scary to people the first time, but then they learn how to handle it-- like how Park got rid of the buzzing light during the quarantine), and then came back and explained herself and said she really did want to do this, and she looked at the research again and concluded that really wants to try again... how is any of that Carl taking advantage of Shawna?

I think it's a story about people overcoming obstacles together.

One way to look at it is if you have a woman who was sexually abused as a child. She might be freaked out and have a panic attack when trying to have sex as an adult. Should her partner just dump her, and declare that clearly she's not capable and it's wrong to get involved with her, even if she says otherwise? Is that how you respect someone? Of course, you don't have to be with someone if you don't want to be with them. But it's not wrong to stay and try to work it out, even if there are challenges along the way.

I think that sometimes the mannerisms of Shaun are being interpreted as childish but they are not. It's like how people will think someone who has a speech impediment is stupid, when they might be very intelligent, but have a disability that affects their diction and tone of voice. (I had a friend who was a freaking genius but most people would take one look at her and decide she was an idiot because she drooled and had a speech-related disability. Once you learned how to understand her speech, what she had to say was well worth it, but many people could not get over their gut feeling that she must not have anything to say, so they didn't try).

I still think that if the show would give us more scenes of Shaun and Carly interacting in the ways that DO work, it wouldn't feel so daunting to imagine why/how they are/could be/should be trying in the areas that are hard. I really liked when (a few episodes ago), Carly told Shaun she hates small talk and really enjoyed the serious topics he wanted to use for ice breakers in their first few dates. We need more of that. Right now, it IS hard to see why they are together and how it isn't a big mistake, because all they show us are the ways they struggle, and not the ways they are compatible.

I don't particularly have an idea that they should be together forever. But lots of people in life and in fiction have more than one relationship, and it's not a sign they shouldn't have been there. Sometimes things don't work out, or they're good for a while and then they've run their course.

In answer to the question upthread about whether Shaun has been shown interacting with other people with autism: yes, a few times. But it's always just been patients who show up at the hospital, and never anyone he seeks out. He's avoided any kind of community with others with autism, which I think is a big mistake both for the character and for the show.

Yeah, pretty much all of this. We need to see Shaun and Carly just having fun.

And yeah, people like to assume people with disabilities are dumb. Whenever I see a new doctor for the first time, my anxiety will manifest a bit physically, then when I talk to them, I always have a flat affect and sometimes irregular speech patterns while I trip over myself trying to get my medical history out.

Then they'll turn to my parent and ask them if it is right. Or they'll look at my parent and tell them what is up instead of looking at me.

I also think Shaun should socially interact with others with autism. I really hope he doesn't get forced to do it through some contrived medical show reason like ending up in a court for something (probably a meltdown due to his autism) and then gets told her has to seek therapy or some other ridiculous only-on-TV sentence. (Although, Shaun needs to see a therapist)

Edited November 25, 2019 by bros402

[RCB]

6 hours ago, possibilities said:

Unless you have actual knowledge and understanding of autism, most of the time, opinions are unfounded and coming only from projections and prejudices. It's really hard to avoid doing that, but to me it seems like an important exercise.

kfir, you seem to be confusing autism with childhood. They are not the same at all. I hope you will do some self-education, instead of relying on misconceptions and ideas that are insulting and harmful to a large population of autistic people.

Shaun is just a tv character, and the writing is imperfect. But there are so many things you're saying about autistic people that are just flat out incorrect here, it's not really grounded in reality of what the show has shown or the reality of real autistic people.

I see Carly being respectful, and meeting Shaun where he is. You see Carly pressuring him. If the genders were reversed, I don't think that would change anything. If "Shawna" asked "Carl" out, and they went on months of dates, and talked about all kinds of things, learning what each valued in life and in relationships, and then Shawna said she wanted to have sex but it was challenging, and Carl educated himself about how that is for autistic people, and they discussed the research on what helps, and decided to try it, and then Shawna had a meltdown (we've seen Shaun have many meltdowns in many contexts, and it often is scary to people the first time, but then they learn how to handle it-- like how Park got rid of the buzzing light during the quarantine), and then came back and explained herself and said she really did want to do this, and she looked at the research again and concluded that really wants to try again... how is any of that Carl taking advantage of Shawna?

I think it's a story about people overcoming obstacles together.

One way to look at it is if you have a woman who was sexually abused as a child. She might be freaked out and have a panic attack when trying to have sex as an adult. Should her partner just dump her, and declare that clearly she's not capable and it's wrong to get involved with her, even if she says otherwise? Is that how you respect someone? Of course, you don't have to be with someone if you don't want to be with them. But it's not wrong to stay and try to work it out, even if there are challenges along the way.

I think that sometimes the mannerisms of Shaun are being interpreted as childish but they are not. It's like how people will think someone who has a speech impediment is stupid, when they might be very intelligent, but have a disability that affects their diction and tone of voice. (I had a friend who was a freaking genius but most people would take one look at her and decide she was an idiot because she drooled and had a speech-related disability. Once you learned how to understand her speech, what she had to say was well worth it, but many people could not get over their gut feeling that she must not have anything to say, so they didn't try).

I still think that if the show would give us more scenes of Shaun and Carly interacting in the ways that DO work, it wouldn't feel so daunting to imagine why/how they are/could be/should be trying in the areas that are hard. I really liked when (a few episodes ago), Carly told Shaun she hates small talk and really enjoyed the serious topics he wanted to use for ice breakers in their first few dates. We need more of that. Right now, it IS hard to see why they are together and how it isn't a big mistake, because all they show us are the ways they struggle, and not the ways they are compatible.

I don't particularly have an idea that they should be together forever. But lots of people in life and in fiction have more than one relationship, and it's not a sign they shouldn't have been there. Sometimes things don't work out, or they're good for a while and then they've run their course.

In answer to the question upthread about whether Shaun has been shown interacting with other people with autism: yes, a few times. But it's always just been patients who show up at the hospital, and never anyone he seeks out. He's avoided any kind of community with others with autism, which I think is a big mistake both for the character and for the show.

Coming from an autistic person, thank you! And I agree with you that Carly definitely isn't Shaun's soulmate for life. I had a good first relationship that ended. I think the show should have Shaun handle at least one break-up...you know, experiment a little. I also prefer slow-burn relationships anyway, kind of like what it appears they could be doing with his relationships with Claire and Lea (I really wish Shaun had more scenes with both of them this season). In my opinion, in order for a fictional relationship to work, the couple must have a lot of time to show that they have chemistry platonically before they actually become a couple.

Also, to add to your criticism of kfir's post, I'm pretty sure Shaun is capable of being a father. He has mentioned that he does want children. I want him to be a father, too...but not right now, and it probably won't be with Carly.

[izabella]

12 hours ago, Kfir said:

I think for Shaun all of this is like some kind of experiment/game. He is like a child that has been thrown into the adult world. 

Can he choose for himself? I don't believe so.

I think this is where some of my discomfort comes from.  Shaun comes across as childlike and naive when it comes to human interactions and romantic relationships, so I don't see him as a sexual being, or a sexy person.  Sexuality and seeing someone as sexy, for me, is about having a mental connection with a man, so I actually see Carly as the one who is experimenting rather than being sexually attracted to Shuan, if that makes sense.

But I think Shaun can choose for himself, though, because he is an adult with adult thoughts and feelings which he may not be able to communicate, but the show is definitely showing us that he is making his own choices and this is what he wants.  

I think it comes down to this for me:

8 hours ago, possibilities said:

Unless you have actual knowledge and understanding of autism, most of the time, opinions are unfounded and coming only from projections and prejudices. It's really hard to avoid doing that, but to me it seems like an important exercise.

I am realizing that I do have these beliefs, opinions, and prejudices that prevent me from seeing Shaun as a sexual person. 

[Kfir]

2 hours ago, RCB said:

Coming from an autistic person, thank you! And I agree with you that Carly definitely isn't Shaun's soulmate for life. I had a good first relationship that ended. I think the show should have Shaun handle at least one break-up...you know, experiment a little. I also prefer slow-burn relationships anyway, kind of like what it appears they could be doing with his relationships with Claire and Lea (I really wish Shaun had more scenes with both of them this season). In my opinion, in order for a fictional relationship to work, the couple must have a lot of time to show that they have chemistry platonically before they actually become a couple.

Also, to add to your criticism of kfir's post, I'm pretty sure Shaun is capable of being a father. He has mentioned that he does want children. I want him to be a father, too...but not right now, and it probably won't be with Carly.

You can criticize me as much as you like however the fact is Shaun leaves little confidence in me. I doubt he would be able to handle a break up well. I also think the way Claire has treated him has been rather cruel. It would be cruel to anyone but especially someone like Shaun. 

It doesn't help that Carly and Shaun have zero connection/chemistry. Carly was so mechanical in her seduction attempt. 

Yeah, gotta disagree, Shaun as a father would be a disaster. Just because he wants to be one doesn't mean he should. 

54 minutes ago, izabella said:

I think this is where some of my discomfort comes from.  Shaun comes across as childlike and naive when it comes to human interactions and romantic relationships, so I don't see him as a sexual being, or a sexy person.  Sexuality and seeing someone as sexy, for me, is about having a mental connection with a man, so I actually see Carly as the one who is experimenting rather than being sexually attracted to Shuan, if that makes sense.

But I think Shaun can choose for himself, though, because he is an adult with adult thoughts and feelings which he may not be able to communicate, but the show is definitely showing us that he is making his own choices and this is what he wants.  

I think it comes down to this for me:

I am realizing that I do have these beliefs, opinions, and prejudices that prevent me from seeing Shaun as a sexual person. 

Yep, I think that is why it feels so creepy. He is childlike no matter what some people may like to think. Now, this doesn't mean all autistic people are like Shaun but we are discussing Shaun here and this show. Shaun is seriously naive and socially incompetent. 

I agree that Carly is also experimenting. She should know better overall. I don't think it is a prejudice to be honest. It is being real about the situation. For example if I (you?) were in a hospital and this odd person approached you and said they were going to be your doctor, would you accept them as such? I certainly wouldn't, my body, my health, I need to feel confident. 

He may be able to choose for himself but can he handle the consequences? I still have my doubts. 

Again in regards to reversing the genders. The whole #metoo movement has made many men very cynical about trusting women when it comes to sex, also false rape claims in general. In my country the Feminists even talk about "enthusiastic consent" in terms of sex and lots of other things which make sex a mine field legally. 

My point is that it is risky enough to try that with a non mentally impaired woman let alone pursue one who has autism. I can just see that going wrong fast and all the things I have mentioned being used by the prosecuting attorney. 

EG :"So you knew my client was autistic and struggles with understanding basic social protocols and yet, you still pursued them sexually? Even though you knew that even a hug makes them feel very uncomfortable?"

Fantasy land is great, real world is another story!

[catrice2]

16 hours ago, possibilities said:

Unless you have actual knowledge and understanding of autism, most of the time, opinions are unfounded and coming only from projections and prejudices. It's really hard to avoid doing that, but to me it seems like an important exercise.

kfir, you seem to be confusing autism with childhood. They are not the same at all. I hope you will do some self-education, instead of relying on misconceptions and ideas that are insulting and harmful to a large population of autistic people.

Shaun is just a tv character, and the writing is imperfect. But there are so many things you're saying about autistic people that are just flat out incorrect here, it's not really grounded in reality of what the show has shown or the reality of real autistic people.

I see Carly being respectful, and meeting Shaun where he is. You see Carly pressuring him. If the genders were reversed, I don't think that would change anything. If "Shawna" asked "Carl" out, and they went on months of dates, and talked about all kinds of things, learning what each valued in life and in relationships, and then Shawna said she wanted to have sex but it was challenging, and Carl educated himself about how that is for autistic people, and they discussed the research on what helps, and decided to try it, and then Shawna had a meltdown (we've seen Shaun have many meltdowns in many contexts, and it often is scary to people the first time, but then they learn how to handle it-- like how Park got rid of the buzzing light during the quarantine), and then came back and explained herself and said she really did want to do this, and she looked at the research again and concluded that really wants to try again... how is any of that Carl taking advantage of Shawna?

I think it's a story about people overcoming obstacles together.

One way to look at it is if you have a woman who was sexually abused as a child. She might be freaked out and have a panic attack when trying to have sex as an adult. Should her partner just dump her, and declare that clearly she's not capable and it's wrong to get involved with her, even if she says otherwise? Is that how you respect someone? Of course, you don't have to be with someone if you don't want to be with them. But it's not wrong to stay and try to work it out, even if there are challenges along the way.

I think that sometimes the mannerisms of Shaun are being interpreted as childish but they are not. It's like how people will think someone who has a speech impediment is stupid, when they might be very intelligent, but have a disability that affects their diction and tone of voice. (I had a friend who was a freaking genius but most people would take one look at her and decide she was an idiot because she drooled and had a speech-related disability. Once you learned how to understand her speech, what she had to say was well worth it, but many people could not get over their gut feeling that she must not have anything to say, so they didn't try).

I still think that if the show would give us more scenes of Shaun and Carly interacting in the ways that DO work, it wouldn't feel so daunting to imagine why/how they are/could be/should be trying in the areas that are hard. I really liked when (a few episodes ago), Carly told Shaun she hates small talk and really enjoyed the serious topics he wanted to use for ice breakers in their first few dates. We need more of that. Right now, it IS hard to see why they are together and how it isn't a big mistake, because all they show us are the ways they struggle, and not the ways they are compatible.

I don't particularly have an idea that they should be together forever. But lots of people in life and in fiction have more than one relationship, and it's not a sign they shouldn't have been there. Sometimes things don't work out, or they're good for a while and then they've run their course.

In answer to the question upthread about whether Shaun has been shown interacting with other people with autism: yes, a few times. But it's always just been patients who show up at the hospital, and never anyone he seeks out. He's avoided any kind of community with others with autism, which I think is a big mistake both for the character and for the show.

I agree with most of what you said.  I also was trying to  make the point that Shaun should be shown interacting with other people with Autism.  Someone let me know that in those other instances he may not have been comfortable with those patients. 

Also most people have more than one person before they find the "forever" one. Why should he be any different?   I don't think the actors have any chemistry with each other but I don't think what Carly is doing is wrong.  I just think her delivery as character is very flat  and clinical  but then again as I said he is too, so may be that is why they get along.  I do think the show would be better off showing why the two of the get along instead of just where they are having problems.  Also, in many relationships one person is in one place while the other is not, again, why should this relationship be different?  In reality I wish some of my former boyfriends had put that level of work into figuring out who I am, what I like and how to interact with me.   

I personally never saw Shaun and Leah as anything other than friends.  I am not a fan of the first kiss person being "the one."   Just because she was the first one he saw in a romantic light doesn't mean she needs to be the one he ends up with, that would be too predictable. 

The speech thing is but one example of what I was complaining about.  Although this can be something that happens with people with autism, it doesn't happen with all.  I just feel like they had to give Shaun every stereotype out there which is not very educational.  There are many people with autism who never realized it or were diagnosed until they were adults.  I wish they had written Shaun as somewhere in the middle.  In many ways he is, but there is room for improvement. 

[auntiemel]

8 hours ago, Kfir said:

My point is that it is risky enough to try that with a non mentally impaired woman let alone pursue one who has autism.

Autistic people aren't "mentally impaired." 😐

[Emma9]

10 hours ago, Kfir said:

It doesn't help that Carly and Shaun have zero connection/chemistry. Carly was so mechanical in her seduction attempt. 

See, that aspect was something I actually liked. It didn't come across as her going through the motions because she wasn't really attracted to him; more like her knowing that she needed to keep things low-key if there was going to be a chance of Shaun not getting overwhelmed. When she was describing the Shaun-friendly features of her bedroom in a tempting tone of voice - I thought that was cute, and came across that she really does want this with him specifically.

Even though as a viewer, I have to agree with you and others upthread that I have a little trouble understanding why she does - but as izabella put it:

11 hours ago, izabella said:

I am realizing that I do have these beliefs, opinions, and prejudices that prevent me from seeing Shaun as a sexual person. 

I don't have any close friends or family on the spectrum; while I work with several autistic children and adults in a volunteer program, they are all very low-functioning. So I don't really have a proper barometer for Shaun's behavior; he comes across as immature and uncontrolled to me, not someone who could be an emotionally satisfying partner, but that could be because I'm filtering him through my own assumptions.

It's basically the opposite of the boy from the last episode - he put out a very confident air, and it was clear the viewer wasn't supposed to be squicked out by Reznik flashing him (though it definitely landed that way for at least a few), despite him being legally and mentally a child. Yet it's difficult to see Shaun as sexual because he's behaving in ways I instinctively classify as immature, even though that's not where it's coming from with him.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Emma9

[Kfir]

1 hour ago, Emma9 said:

See, that aspect was something I actually liked. It didn't come across as her going through the motions because she wasn't really attracted to him; more like her knowing that she needed to keep things low-key if there was going to be a chance of Shaun not getting overwhelmed. When she was describing the Shaun-friendly features of her bedroom in a tempting tone of voice - I thought that was cute, and came across that she really does want this with him specifically.

Even though as a viewer, I have to agree with you and others upthread that I have a little trouble understanding why she does - but as izabella put it:

I don't have any close friends or family on the spectrum; while I work with several autistic children and adults in a volunteer program, they are all very low-functioning. So I don't really have a proper barometer for Shaun's behavior; he comes across as immature and uncontrolled to me, not someone who could be an emotionally satisfying partner, but that could be because I'm filtering him through my own assumptions.

It's basically the opposite of the boy from the last episode - he put out a very confident air, and it was clear the viewer wasn't supposed to be squicked out by Reznik flashing him (though it definitely landed that way for at least a few), despite him being legally and mentally a child. Yet it's difficult to see Shaun as sexual because he's behaving in ways I instinctively classify as immature, even though that's not where it's coming from with him.

I guess it is just weird. If Shaun wasn't autistic and say just a shy virgin then I can see how Carly's approach would be fine. But I just can't help but keep thinking that if Shaun were a female and someone was trying to find ways to bed them than it would be a whole different story.  

That is the same reason I am critical of Reznick flashing the kid the other ep. Yes, he was very confident and knew exactly what he wanted and understood that. Fine but in the end she was still the adult and he was still a kid. In fact, lets say he was an adult about to go blind and see one last pair of breasts and she flashed him, that is still unprofessional on her part. 

So I guess I take a pretty hard line approach to it all. 

I agree though, Shaun comes across as immature and that is what adds to Carly being creepy in my opinion. 

[Sarnia]

4 hours ago, Kfir said:

But I just can't help but keep thinking that if Shaun were a female and someone was trying to find ways to bed them than it would be a whole different story.  

Carly is not "trying to find ways to bed Shaun". They are both adults in a relationship and they both want it. Shaun has expressed it several times. If one was pushing the other into something they don't want that would be a whole different story, whatever genre they are, but it's not shown to be the case here. If Shaun changes his mind about wanting it, and Carly still pursues it against his wishes, then it would be a problem, but that's not the case for now. So I'm fine with Carly and Shaun wanting to have sex together and exploring ways to get there.

But I'm not so sure I want to watch it, or at least I would like to be also shown other aspects of their relationship as well. I think centering their relationship around the physical aspect may be what is putting some viewers off because we don't really see what else they might be sharing or why they enjoy each other's company. 

[Kfir]

16 minutes ago, Sarnia said:

Carly is not "trying to find ways to bed Shaun". They are both adults in a relationship and they both want it. Shaun has expressed it several times. If one was pushing the other into something they don't want that would be a whole different story, whatever genre they are, but it's not shown to be the case here. If Shaun changes his mind about wanting it, and Carly still pursues it against his wishes, then it would be a problem, but that's not the case for now. So I'm fine with Carly and Shaun wanting to have sex together and exploring ways to get there.

But I'm not so sure I want to watch it, or at least I would like to be also shown other aspects of their relationship as well. I think centering their relationship around the physical aspect may be what is putting some viewers off because we don't really see what else they might be sharing or why they enjoy each other's company. 

Well she is though. How would you feel if a man was told by his girlfriend that she isn't ready/uncomfortable whatever and than that man does some research and has another attempt at it? I doubt you would be so understanding. 

I think at some point she needs to step away from what he is saying and look at how he is behaving. Because his words and his actions do not align. 

I recall when they watched a film and she wanted to hold his hand/put her arm around him, I don't recall which. He was very upset about it and even came back with how he shouldn't have to do it because it makes him uncomfortable. There was her hint that it wasn't going to work. 

If he needs to have a girlfriend at all he needs one who is quite happy without the sex and the need for touch. As you say we don't see much of their relationship outside of attempts of sex/physical closeness, perhaps he needs a woman who is some kind of genius and they get their closeness through intense intellectual discussion?

Edited November 26, 2019 by Kfir

[Sarnia]

I don't feel the same way, so let's agree to disagree.

21 minutes ago, Kfir said:

As you say we don't see much of their relationship outside of attempts of sex/physical closeness

Yes, but my point is not that it's a problem with the relationship. My point is that it's a problem with the show.

[possibilities]

On 11/26/2019 at 4:36 AM, Kfir said:

How would you feel if a man was told by his girlfriend that she isn't ready/uncomfortable whatever and than that man does some research and has another attempt at it?

That is not what happened! Shaun told Carly he wants to have sex with her and thinks about it a lot, even when he should be thinking about other things. She told him about the research and he said he'd like to try it. When he wanted to stop, she stopped. He's the one who came back to her and told her he really wants to try.

Every time he's stopped, she's stopped. I don't know where you're finding the pressure aspect, but it's not coming from anything Carly is actually doing on the show.

[sinkwriter]

On 11/24/2019 at 3:47 PM, Emma9 said:

Their twin goofy grins when she said she was going to leave it on the moon were the most I've enjoyed this relationship at all.

It's not even real, but in that moment I found myself getting all geeky excited for them. Like it was actually going to happen. LOL. It was definitely a cute moment, seeing them grin and exchange a look of "Wow, cool!"

[screengem]

 I have been a faithful viewer of the Good Doctor since the premier episode. But I am having difficulty with the sex story line between Shaun and Carly in recent weeks. In one scene, she just lies there on her bed all doe eyed. Oh brother. The guy needs a sex worker, male or female, to get over his dislike of someone else touching his body. He needs to be touched everywhere gently, from someone who is trained in giving pleasure through touch. The so called sex scenes so far are frustrating and unrealistic. Does anyone else have the same opinion? Any thoughts??