S39.E08: We Made it to the Merge!

[sadiegirl1999]

I am totally curious if the editors scrambled to re-edit tonight’s episode? 
 

I feel like the show totally thought they were “woke” (not sure if I’m using that right!) and pro #metoo and thought everyone would love this episode when the truth is, not many did! 
 

we’ll never know but my hunch says they did scramble to re-edit tonight’s episode. 

[ByaNose]

53 minutes ago, sadiegirl1999 said:

I am totally curious if the editors scrambled to re-edit tonight’s episode? 
 

I feel like the show totally thought they were “woke” (not sure if I’m using that right!) and pro #metoo and thought everyone would love this episode when the truth is, not many did! 
 

we’ll never know but my hunch says they did scramble to re-edit tonight’s episode. 

I too was wondering if they were going to re-edit the edit. Maybe, the deaf & blind but “they” thought the 2 hour episode would answer all the questions. Unfortunately, they didn’t account for the backlash. Do they edit Dan out more? Do they add more aftermath of Tribal Council when they get back to camp? This episode may make or break the season altogether. 

[Nashville]

14 hours ago, Sarnia said:

Disclaimer : I'm not from the US, so not sure of how things work out there, but in my country (France) a magistrate can initiate an investigation when they have knowledge of the occurence of a crime even if the victim does not want to press charges. Just recently an actress has spoken up about being assaulted by a movie director when she was a teenager, and even though she says she would not press charges, the French justice system has opened an official investigation. 

There is a partial parallel of sorts in the U. S. justice system - domestic assault.  Up until the past 3 or 4 decades it used to be common practice across the country to require domestic assault victims to press charges before an assailant could be arrested.  Around/about the mid-70s, though, a study was done based on FBI national crime statistics (I think) which indicated (a) most victims either refused to press charges or dropped them within 48 hours of the incident, and (b) these same un-prosecuted assailant/victim pairs accounted for a seriously high volume of repeat incidents.  In response, many (not all) state and local jurisdictions changed their laws such that domestic assault ceased to be a crime against an individual victim or victims, and instead became a crime against the general public - which meant so long as officers on scene saw definitive evidence of assault, the jurisdiction could press charges regardless of whether or not the victim wanted to prosecute.

By and large the change has been pretty positive - something like a 70% increase in successful domestic assault prosecutions, and a significant corresponding decrease in repeat offenders - but as I said, its employment varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

[Trepis]

I'm behind on my survivor watching, just caught this episode over the weekend.

I've never had an emotional reaction to survivor beyond  the normal excited / disappointed with who gets voted off . This episode was a whole different thing.

In the first episode when Kellee was explaining how she didn't like being touched it really resonated with me ; I even explain to others that its a me issue just like she did.

 It's way more complicated then that obviously , even I can't necessarily quantify every possible physical interaction and know if I will be uncomfortable or not. In fact, the same behavior from two different folks can have wildly different responses ; If I run into my cousin and a friend on the street and my cousin gives me a hug, perfectly comfortable ; If the friend tried to hug me next, different feeling.      
I notice as I'm reading through this thread that several folks are trying to divide physical contact into 'sexual' and 'non-sexual' this to me is a rabbit hole. The physiological response that I feel with unwanted contact is the same whether or not the contact rises to some definition of sexual. The whole core of my body feels cold inside, my stomach knots up, my heart races and I start sweating. 

As I watched the episode it dawned on me that even though I have the same boundaries as Kellee with regards to physical contact, I have had a totally different life experience because I'm male. I felt a genuine sadness for her thinking about what life is like for her; having the behavior continue after they talked infuriates me ; do you need to scream in someones face DONT F***ING TOUCH ; 
It's not about thats how some folks are. I don't buy that because I've never had to tell someone twice; 
As I watch I can't help but ask 'how would I react' and when I do it becomes incredibly apparent how unequal women get treated. 

' How would I react to Dan checking my hair for sand'
 - Umm, did you just touch my hair ?!? Seriously, what the hell ? 

'How would I react to Dan checking my hair for sand AGAIN , after I told him not too'
- I got nothing, I cannot imagine a guy doing this. I have trouble imagining it happening the first time, but I can't envision someone not respecting my wishes. 

'How would I react to Dan touching my toes O.o' 
- 'Sorry I kicked you in the face but I thought I felt a bug on my foot; seriously though man, what the fuck were you doing to my foot that was creepy af '

I've always known culture and society have socio-norms regarding personal space and since I prefer more space I need to speak up on occasion but I never stopped to think about how much more women are subjected to every day. 

[Rt66vintage]

Late to the party, but another angle I've been thinking about is what if the touchee is skin hungry, as Drogo put it, and actually returned Dan's caresses? My guess is that he'd be quickly turned off and/or mortified.

His touchy-feely behavior seems power motivated, and I'm almost 100% sure he does this at his talent agency. Considering his age and occupation, he's honed his instincts in seeking out young pretty, vulnerable women. 

Why has he left Lauren alone after she spoke to him about his unwanted touching? Why has Noura been left out? Maybe he knows these gals will either yell at him or make him a laughing stock among the other players. 

My point is guys like this are weak and scared of strong confident women. 

[Superpole2000]

On 11/18/2019 at 4:58 PM, Jel said:

First, I have to say that this entire discussion is interesting, and I so appreciate how civil everyone is keeping it. 

Do we know if CBS/Burnett Productions has an existing policy about unwanted touching?  It's hard to imagine they did (at the time) simply because, as Drogo pointed out, Jeff seemed very flummoxed by it. He's "learning", while another example was being played out in front of him in real time. Slow learner.

But if they did have such a policy, then I would think it was a clear violation because Kellee objected to the behavior and it continued, and CBS didn't step in and tell him he broke the rules.

If they don't have a policy already, then I hope they are working on something now. That would take the pressure off players, who are, after all, on a tv show, trying to win a million bucks. That's the biggest confounding variable and affects behavior at many levels.  

I appreciate the thoughtful comments about a woman's agency, but, on balance, (and it's not even by that much), I do think it puts an unfair burden on a player. CBS and Burnett are in charge, they make the rules, and they should have one for this type of situation. I'd prefer it was no touching without permission, but that may be too stringent and unnatural, so perhaps one "NO" and anything after that would be considered a rules violation and dealt with as all rules violations are in the game.

I had a similar reaction.

I feel like Survivor has been playing with fire for 39 seasons on this topic. There is a lot of physical touching in this game due to:

• Challenges: human ladders, one-on-one wrestling, tackling, etc. Opt out of these and you lose.
• Harsh conditions at night: Want to shiver all night? Go off by yourself. Want to feel warm? Snuggle up to a stranger who could easily mistake you for their significant other when sleeping.
• Emotional highs and lows: The pressure of the game pushes people to seek comfort in each other or celebrate with them, often in the form of touching. You can't opt out of a group hug without killing your sense of unity with the tribe. And wow, I can't believe how many people are dropping "I LOVE YOU!" into conversations on this show.
• Skimpy clothing: Ever lounge around in your underwear with some strangers? It's not normal, and it exposes you. But what are you going to do? Production doesn't give you the option of wearing what you want, so instead you are doing all of the required touching in this game while wearing your skimpiest stuff. Furthermore, being in such clothing around others might work to amplify the sense that everyone is more intimately connected than they actually are.

The game is designed to push intimacy on everyone. Kellee refused it from one particular person who was going overboard while doing what so many others have done before in the game. I don't blame her either since I would have done the same thing. It's strange to normalize the massages, the snuggling, the mutual grooming (ex. mud bath rewards), etc., but because the show has displayed this for 39 seasons, it is seen as normal. Even when you get a bunch of contestants agreeing that they are uncomfortable with some of the touching, still nothing changes because the high stakes of the game and peer pressure push people to accept something that they aren't comfortable doing in order to win a prize.